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TC is also a good 2nd hero choice against UD, warstomp is disgustingly good for crypt fiend killing.
For workers, 5 should be on gold, and 7 is a pretty good number for wood
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On January 21 2012 06:42 Phyrigian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 06:39 kuresuti wrote:On January 21 2012 06:34 Phyrigian wrote:On January 21 2012 06:31 Mafe wrote:On January 21 2012 06:24 Phyrigian wrote:jesus guys, thanks for all the advice, i appreciate is all so very much. On January 21 2012 06:20 bGr.MetHiX wrote:
maps with fountains favor orc.google item stacking on the blademaster and try to use it in your gameplay.play offensive with grunt/raider blademaster/shadowhuter(or taurenchieftain on bigger maps) and later on you can switch to mass wyvern after your expansion and focus on sniping the death knight. what are some good orc maps that dont escape the norm of play and are still relatively balanced but would just give me a slight edge with a fountain or something? and thanks for your advice. I know you don't expand very early in war3 (in fact, much the opposite!) but is there any general guide as to whens a good idea. Also, since hes from sc2 but hasnt played in ages (which is why im not afraid to post this blog here :p) he might try early expand. this is probably suicide in war3, but if he was to how should i respond to fuck him over and kill him. Secret Valley comes to my mind. You can crepp the healfountains very fast, where you have a good chance to get a useful item for the blademaster. However, if you have never really played wc3; I would recommend staying away from blademaster. Also, build an orc shop. the healing salves you can buy there are incredibly good if you some micro to save yout units. Remember, in wc3 saving units is at least as importatn as killing stuff. hmm, if i dont use BM what should i do? hes part of the norm, isn't he? :x Farseer used to be the standard, until people realized how much exp you are feeding the enemy with the wolves you summon. He is still viable though, just micro them wolves! EDIT: Are you looking to win, or to play a standard game? fun :p, and winning. trying a standard game would also be cool.
Solo BM harass and straight tech to T2 without building any units, into double beastiary Wyverns which you hide and then later make a big fight happen when you have 7-8 Wyverns. This is cheesy, but it is incredibly strong unless your opponent is good or manages to counter it blindly. It's like DTs in BW.
The Orc shop allows you to harass with the BM constantly, picking of low health units and what not. Just buy healing salves and clarity potions.
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Standard build:
open with 1 racks, 1 altar, 2 burrows (not necessarily in that order.
BM, 2 grunts, voodoo lounge, and start your tech
add on another burrow
add 2 more grunts (4 in total)
TIER 2: immediately start by building a beastiary, spirit lodge, and shadow hunter as your second hero.
get a second burrow.
Get a raider and ensnare research, get a spirit walker and research spirit walker adapt training.
Get berserker strength upgrade for grunt health.
Get a warmill to be able to build 1 kodo beast.
Your economic situation:
you should have exactly 5 peons on gold at almost all times.
you should have exactly 7 peons on wood (before you tech you should make sure you have 7).
Get to 50 food with the following unit composition approximately:
1 BM (abilities: wind walk, crit, wind walk, crit, crit buy BM boots of speed (red boots from public shop))
1 SH (abilities: hex, healing wave, healing wave, hex, healing wave)
4 grunts (you should not build any more grunts after your initial 4)
2 raiders
1 kodo beast
2 spirit walkers
Replace any lost units with raiders and walkers.
Should your opponent get air units (gargoyles (lol), destroyers (very likely), or frost wyrms (maybe)) make bat riders from your beastiary.
You should not break 50 food for about 75% of the game. If you are going to break 50 food, bank like 1.5k gold, and go straight to 70 or 80. NEVER go past 80 food (economic suicide).
Don't really try to expand much at all.
Good luck.
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On January 21 2012 06:58 Phyrigian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 06:56 Chimpalimp wrote:
Standard build:
open with 1 racks, 1 altar, 2 burrows (not necessarily in that order.
BM, 2 grunts, voodoo lounge, and start your tech
add on another burrow
add 2 more grunts (4 in total)
TIER 2: immediately start by building a beastiary, spirit lodge, and shadow hunter as your second hero.
get a second burrow.
Get a raider and ensnare research, get a spirit walker and research spirit walker adapt training.
Get berserker strength upgrade for grunt health.
Get a warmill to be able to build 1 kodo beast.
Your economic situation:
you should have exactly 5 peons on gold at almost all times.
you should have exactly 7 peons on wood (before you tech you should make sure you have 7).
Get to 50 food with the following unit composition approximately:
1 BM (abilities: wind walk, crit, wind walk, crit, crit buy BM boots of speed (red boots from public shop))
1 SH (abilities: hex, healing wave, healing wave, hex, healing wave)
4 grunts (you should not build any more grunts after your initial 4)
2 raiders
1 kodo beast
2 spirit walkers
Replace any lost units with raiders and walkers.
Should your opponent get air units (gargoyles (lol), destroyers (very likely), or frost wyrms (maybe)) make bat riders from your beastiary.
You should not break 50 food for about 75% of the game. If you are going to break 50 food, bank like 1.5k gold, and go straight to 70 or 80. NEVER go past 80 food (economic suicide).
Don't really try to expand much at all.
Good luck. sounds like perfect standard advice, but i may try that cheese. may try this at a later date though. are gargoyles like the scouts of wc3? lol.
Na, gargs are like going bio vs toss, pretty much retarded vs orc (bats hard counter them as well as reavers hard counter bio), but it could happen.
As for cheese: same as standard setup except don't expand, get a warmill. Make Firelord (from tavern) or Farseer or BM, make grunts and watch towers near his base. takes some micro to get it initially pulled off, but does wonders against crappy players.
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On January 21 2012 06:56 Phyrigian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 06:46 kuresuti wrote:On January 21 2012 06:42 Phyrigian wrote:On January 21 2012 06:39 kuresuti wrote:On January 21 2012 06:34 Phyrigian wrote:On January 21 2012 06:31 Mafe wrote:On January 21 2012 06:24 Phyrigian wrote:jesus guys, thanks for all the advice, i appreciate is all so very much. On January 21 2012 06:20 bGr.MetHiX wrote:
maps with fountains favor orc.google item stacking on the blademaster and try to use it in your gameplay.play offensive with grunt/raider blademaster/shadowhuter(or taurenchieftain on bigger maps) and later on you can switch to mass wyvern after your expansion and focus on sniping the death knight. what are some good orc maps that dont escape the norm of play and are still relatively balanced but would just give me a slight edge with a fountain or something? and thanks for your advice. I know you don't expand very early in war3 (in fact, much the opposite!) but is there any general guide as to whens a good idea. Also, since hes from sc2 but hasnt played in ages (which is why im not afraid to post this blog here :p) he might try early expand. this is probably suicide in war3, but if he was to how should i respond to fuck him over and kill him. Secret Valley comes to my mind. You can crepp the healfountains very fast, where you have a good chance to get a useful item for the blademaster. However, if you have never really played wc3; I would recommend staying away from blademaster. Also, build an orc shop. the healing salves you can buy there are incredibly good if you some micro to save yout units. Remember, in wc3 saving units is at least as importatn as killing stuff. hmm, if i dont use BM what should i do? hes part of the norm, isn't he? :x Farseer used to be the standard, until people realized how much exp you are feeding the enemy with the wolves you summon. He is still viable though, just micro them wolves! EDIT: Are you looking to win, or to play a standard game? fun :p, and winning. trying a standard game would also be cool. Solo BM harass and straight tech to T2 without building any units, into double beastiary Wyverns which you hide and then later make a big fight happen when you have 7-8 Wyverns. This is cheesy, but it is incredibly strong unless your opponent is good or manages to counter it blindly. It's like DTs in BW. The Orc shop allows you to harass with the BM constantly, picking of low health units and what not. Just buy healing salves and clarity potions. trying a game against ai, lol, getting raped sounds right up my alley for a strat for this, lol. also, noob question. you go windwalk first and max that and your passive, right? also, items arent incredibly important in wc3, right?
Windwalk and then Crit. Items are EXTREMELY important, especially for a cheese like this. Your whole strategy relies on the Blade Master being up in the enemys ass while he creeps, you can't do that without salves and potions. Also pick up Boots of Speed from the neutral merchant. You should just windwalk and hit targets so they die and immediately back away, rinse and repeat.
You can defend your base without units because as a Orc player you have burrows, which are pretty damn strong.
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On January 21 2012 07:02 Phyrigian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 07:00 Chimpalimp wrote:On January 21 2012 06:58 Phyrigian wrote:On January 21 2012 06:56 Chimpalimp wrote:
Standard build:
open with 1 racks, 1 altar, 2 burrows (not necessarily in that order.
BM, 2 grunts, voodoo lounge, and start your tech
add on another burrow
add 2 more grunts (4 in total)
TIER 2: immediately start by building a beastiary, spirit lodge, and shadow hunter as your second hero.
get a second burrow.
Get a raider and ensnare research, get a spirit walker and research spirit walker adapt training.
Get berserker strength upgrade for grunt health.
Get a warmill to be able to build 1 kodo beast.
Your economic situation:
you should have exactly 5 peons on gold at almost all times.
you should have exactly 7 peons on wood (before you tech you should make sure you have 7).
Get to 50 food with the following unit composition approximately:
1 BM (abilities: wind walk, crit, wind walk, crit, crit buy BM boots of speed (red boots from public shop))
1 SH (abilities: hex, healing wave, healing wave, hex, healing wave)
4 grunts (you should not build any more grunts after your initial 4)
2 raiders
1 kodo beast
2 spirit walkers
Replace any lost units with raiders and walkers.
Should your opponent get air units (gargoyles (lol), destroyers (very likely), or frost wyrms (maybe)) make bat riders from your beastiary.
You should not break 50 food for about 75% of the game. If you are going to break 50 food, bank like 1.5k gold, and go straight to 70 or 80. NEVER go past 80 food (economic suicide).
Don't really try to expand much at all.
Good luck. sounds like perfect standard advice, but i may try that cheese. may try this at a later date though. are gargoyles like the scouts of wc3? lol. Na, gargs are like going bio vs toss, pretty much retarded, but it could happen. As for cheese: same as standard setup except don't expand, get a warmill. Make Firelord (from tavern) or Farseer or BM, make grunts and watch towers near his base. takes some micro to get it initially pulled off, but does wonders against crappy players. you know your stuff, whats better, his wyvern cheese or that? lol
The Firelord tower rush is a stronger strategy, but much harder to pull off.
EDIT: I don't remember the times exactly, but get boots as soon as they are available. Shouldn't be long after your hero spawns. Circlets which give +2 to all stats are pretty good, but not necessary. If the enemy is aggressive, it might be worth it to pick up a circlet or two. Also remember to be there when the enemy finishes a camp, you might get lucky and steal his item.
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Gargoyles are actuyally very good in the other matchups, but one orc batrider instakills one gargoyle (not with his attack, but with his abilty "unstable conc...whatever"). Though the bat suicides with this ability, your hero gets experience while the ud doesnt. And the batrider also deals aoe-damgage to other ud-air units that might be around. Very good trade. Learn the suicide-hotkey, and you dont need to make other aa units until the armies reach 70+ supply.
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On January 21 2012 07:02 Phyrigian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 07:00 Chimpalimp wrote:On January 21 2012 06:58 Phyrigian wrote:On January 21 2012 06:56 Chimpalimp wrote:
Standard build:
open with 1 racks, 1 altar, 2 burrows (not necessarily in that order.
BM, 2 grunts, voodoo lounge, and start your tech
add on another burrow
add 2 more grunts (4 in total)
TIER 2: immediately start by building a beastiary, spirit lodge, and shadow hunter as your second hero.
get a second burrow.
Get a raider and ensnare research, get a spirit walker and research spirit walker adapt training.
Get berserker strength upgrade for grunt health.
Get a warmill to be able to build 1 kodo beast.
Your economic situation:
you should have exactly 5 peons on gold at almost all times.
you should have exactly 7 peons on wood (before you tech you should make sure you have 7).
Get to 50 food with the following unit composition approximately:
1 BM (abilities: wind walk, crit, wind walk, crit, crit buy BM boots of speed (red boots from public shop))
1 SH (abilities: hex, healing wave, healing wave, hex, healing wave)
4 grunts (you should not build any more grunts after your initial 4)
2 raiders
1 kodo beast
2 spirit walkers
Replace any lost units with raiders and walkers.
Should your opponent get air units (gargoyles (lol), destroyers (very likely), or frost wyrms (maybe)) make bat riders from your beastiary.
You should not break 50 food for about 75% of the game. If you are going to break 50 food, bank like 1.5k gold, and go straight to 70 or 80. NEVER go past 80 food (economic suicide).
Don't really try to expand much at all.
Good luck. sounds like perfect standard advice, but i may try that cheese. may try this at a later date though. are gargoyles like the scouts of wc3? lol. Na, gargs are like going bio vs toss, pretty much retarded, but it could happen. As for cheese: same as standard setup except don't expand, get a warmill. Make Firelord (from tavern) or Farseer or BM, make grunts and watch towers near his base. takes some micro to get it initially pulled off, but does wonders against crappy players. you know your stuff, whats better, his wyvern cheese or that? lol
Wyvern cheese is EXTREMELY all in but easier to control. Until you are comfortable with wyvs, crypt fiends will hard counter you pretty easily. Tower cheese is harder to pull off the initial 3 towers, but once those 3 towers and a proxy shop are done, you almost instantly win by just building towers closer and closer. You have to micro pretty decently to get the initial towers up, unless you hide them carefully in fog of war. WC3 towers are VERY good. Its your call. If you do a bo3, do both.
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On January 21 2012 07:05 Phyrigian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 07:04 kuresuti wrote:On January 21 2012 07:02 Phyrigian wrote:On January 21 2012 07:00 Chimpalimp wrote:On January 21 2012 06:58 Phyrigian wrote:On January 21 2012 06:56 Chimpalimp wrote:
Standard build:
open with 1 racks, 1 altar, 2 burrows (not necessarily in that order.
BM, 2 grunts, voodoo lounge, and start your tech
add on another burrow
add 2 more grunts (4 in total)
TIER 2: immediately start by building a beastiary, spirit lodge, and shadow hunter as your second hero.
get a second burrow.
Get a raider and ensnare research, get a spirit walker and research spirit walker adapt training.
Get berserker strength upgrade for grunt health.
Get a warmill to be able to build 1 kodo beast.
Your economic situation:
you should have exactly 5 peons on gold at almost all times.
you should have exactly 7 peons on wood (before you tech you should make sure you have 7).
Get to 50 food with the following unit composition approximately:
1 BM (abilities: wind walk, crit, wind walk, crit, crit buy BM boots of speed (red boots from public shop))
1 SH (abilities: hex, healing wave, healing wave, hex, healing wave)
4 grunts (you should not build any more grunts after your initial 4)
2 raiders
1 kodo beast
2 spirit walkers
Replace any lost units with raiders and walkers.
Should your opponent get air units (gargoyles (lol), destroyers (very likely), or frost wyrms (maybe)) make bat riders from your beastiary.
You should not break 50 food for about 75% of the game. If you are going to break 50 food, bank like 1.5k gold, and go straight to 70 or 80. NEVER go past 80 food (economic suicide).
Don't really try to expand much at all.
Good luck. sounds like perfect standard advice, but i may try that cheese. may try this at a later date though. are gargoyles like the scouts of wc3? lol. Na, gargs are like going bio vs toss, pretty much retarded, but it could happen. As for cheese: same as standard setup except don't expand, get a warmill. Make Firelord (from tavern) or Farseer or BM, make grunts and watch towers near his base. takes some micro to get it initially pulled off, but does wonders against crappy players. you know your stuff, whats better, his wyvern cheese or that? lol The Firelord tower rush is a stronger strategy, but much harder to pull off. oh, i'll definitely do your wyvern one then. so harrass asap?
Yeah, as soon as the BM is out, run straight for the enemy but do not engage. Wait until he creeps or something, then hit windwalk and finish the creeps and/or his units off one by one.
EDIT: Try to time your build so your shop goes up when the BM comes out, so you can buy salves and potions at once.
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On January 21 2012 07:03 Phyrigian wrote:
oh, by items i didnt mean salves, i meant more like +agi stuff... but i think thats only dota and stuff (lol, thats where my question roots from if that makes sense :p). When do i go for boots again?
You get the boots from the neutral merchant, they spawn right at/shortly after the first night begins.
There are +agi items in regular WC3 matches as well but you don't spend money on them, just pick up whatever you can steal from the creeps your opponent is killing (always hit something, then get the item as picking it up uncloaks you and your first hit out of the cloak deals bonus damage that you don't want to waste).
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On January 21 2012 07:08 Phyrigian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 07:05 Chimpalimp wrote:On January 21 2012 07:02 Phyrigian wrote:On January 21 2012 07:00 Chimpalimp wrote:On January 21 2012 06:58 Phyrigian wrote:On January 21 2012 06:56 Chimpalimp wrote:
Standard build:
open with 1 racks, 1 altar, 2 burrows (not necessarily in that order.
BM, 2 grunts, voodoo lounge, and start your tech
add on another burrow
add 2 more grunts (4 in total)
TIER 2: immediately start by building a beastiary, spirit lodge, and shadow hunter as your second hero.
get a second burrow.
Get a raider and ensnare research, get a spirit walker and research spirit walker adapt training.
Get berserker strength upgrade for grunt health.
Get a warmill to be able to build 1 kodo beast.
Your economic situation:
you should have exactly 5 peons on gold at almost all times.
you should have exactly 7 peons on wood (before you tech you should make sure you have 7).
Get to 50 food with the following unit composition approximately:
1 BM (abilities: wind walk, crit, wind walk, crit, crit buy BM boots of speed (red boots from public shop))
1 SH (abilities: hex, healing wave, healing wave, hex, healing wave)
4 grunts (you should not build any more grunts after your initial 4)
2 raiders
1 kodo beast
2 spirit walkers
Replace any lost units with raiders and walkers.
Should your opponent get air units (gargoyles (lol), destroyers (very likely), or frost wyrms (maybe)) make bat riders from your beastiary.
You should not break 50 food for about 75% of the game. If you are going to break 50 food, bank like 1.5k gold, and go straight to 70 or 80. NEVER go past 80 food (economic suicide).
Don't really try to expand much at all.
Good luck. sounds like perfect standard advice, but i may try that cheese. may try this at a later date though. are gargoyles like the scouts of wc3? lol. Na, gargs are like going bio vs toss, pretty much retarded, but it could happen. As for cheese: same as standard setup except don't expand, get a warmill. Make Firelord (from tavern) or Farseer or BM, make grunts and watch towers near his base. takes some micro to get it initially pulled off, but does wonders against crappy players. you know your stuff, whats better, his wyvern cheese or that? lol Wyvern cheese is EXTREMELY all in but easier to control. Until you are comfortable with wyvs, crypt fiends will hard counter you pretty easily. Tower cheese is harder to pull off the initial 3 towers, but once those 3 towers and a proxy shop are done, you almost instantly win by just building towers closer and closer. You have to micro pretty decently to get the initial towers up, unless you hide them carefully in fog of war. WC3 towers are VERY good. Its your call. If you do a bo3, do both. would an analogy for wyv vs crypts be like vultures vs goons? lol.
It would be muta vs a pack of marines. If your good at micro, you can beat the marines, if you don't play it smart, you will get slaughtered running in.
But if he doesn't get web, its like shooting fish in a barrel.
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Actually just go here and get some Orc replays. I haven't followed WC3 for a few years, but I assume the games still play out the same way, just look at how they use their blademasters.
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On January 21 2012 07:13 kuresuti wrote:Actually just go here and get some Orc replays. I haven't followed WC3 for a few years, but I assume the games still play out the same way, just look at how they use their blademasters.
Some of those are out of date and can't be played in the current version of WC3. Just go to www.wcreplays.com and find orc vs ud games for standard games, for cheese, just do what was told earlier.
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in general, towering doesn't work vs UD
and fiends dont really hard counter wyvern, they just cast web to hold them in place. You have to research web at t2 and until that time UD has nothing that can hit air at all. Maybe if he really noob he won't even figure out to get web.
The old orc vs ud metagame used to be to expand early at t2 and then mass wyverns and there was pretty much no counter to it especially if u got lev 3 stomp
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EPT
