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On January 19 2012 02:41 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 01:53 werynais wrote:On January 19 2012 01:37 Zocat wrote:On January 19 2012 01:23 werynais wrote:On January 19 2012 00:49 KeksX wrote:On January 19 2012 00:45 TylerThaCreator wrote:On January 19 2012 00:33 KeksX wrote:On January 19 2012 00:25 werynais wrote:
LOL if you call GEMA a shady organization what do you call Grooveshark then?
Some of you guys really have a weird perspective of life. I don't know whats wrong with you... Calling people's perspectives on lives weird just because they have different priorities and/or views. Don't make this discussion personal just to make your arguments stronger, please. Do I call you an idiot for what you say? No. You have a right for your opinion and eventhough I don't agree with you I respect and accept it. The fact that Grooveshark's staff uploaded copyrighted material and got sued for this was just plain dumb(of them for uploading this in the first place). But thats not shady. It's out there you can read it up for yourself. You know what they did and what they did was dumb. You can call them idiots for that, but not shady. GEMA however is intransparent in the way they work and even their members don't always know whats going on. If thats not shady then I don't know what is. Or what would you call shady? @MyLastSerenade: Yea, but not comfortable ones(Proxies etc). I didn't try simfy yet but maybe it's a good alternative. No, it's weird for you to call GEMA a shady organization when their objective is to protect the interests of musicians/the corporations associated with them when Grooveshark was operating illegally in Germany. Thats the point: GEMA is supposed to do that, gets criticized by it's members for not doing so properly and hides what they do with 40% of the money they got. What grooveshark did is a grey area in Germany. It is NOT illegal. It is arguable whether some of the things there are illegal or not (for example it would've been illegal to upload songs to grooveshark), but opening up grooveshark and listening to songs is legal, or at least in the grey area. And as long as grooveshark would've paid the amount demanded, it would've been legal for them, too. Thats why they stop now: They don't pay, so they close their service. Remember: We are not talking about actual crimes where people get hurt, we are talking about people wanting money. And as long as they get money, they are happy. Please stop. If you think it's legal for the user to "stream" his songs from grooveshark you may be right (i think you are not, look up a recent case where the court said streaming is no different than downloading, and thats completely right, i think it was kino.to), but thats not important. GS does not have the right to stream songs because they don't have agreements with the record labels, why do you think they get sued all the time? THEY DONT PAY ROALITIES. THE ARTIST GETS NOTHING. So GS gets money for something they didn't produce, the producer gets NOTHING, thats a crime, and shady. Youtube had agreements with the copyright holders / record labels (in some cases) and those videos still got blocked by GEMA. GEMA is an outdated, antiquated institution which hurts musicians, record labels and everyone asociated (as well as the end user). Only a small number of "artists" benefit from GEMA - and shockingly all those guys are directly involved in GEMA. As a already said, GEMA is not the main Problem. It's only a matter of time till GS gets shut down completely unless they start paying royalties or make other agreements with the record labelslyt. Thats the whole point. This is what the GEMA is there for. It was GEMAs job to make sure that Grooveshark does pay money so artists get their fair share, but they demanded such a high amount of money that Grooveshark decided it's not profitable to do this.
You cant be serious now Oo, lets look at this quote from yourself:
On January 19 2012 00:11 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2012 23:57 aendi wrote:well, according to a statement released by GEMA (heise.de news article), grooveshark never wanted to even pay a minimal amount of money to GEMA and never contacted them at all. seems like GEMA isn't the only one at fault here. Thanks for the article, that takes everything into a different perspective. At least in this situation, because GEMA is still a shady "organisation", or however you want to call it. Let's see how, or if, groovesharks responds to this.
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Not to be US-focused, but this is the other side of the SOPA/PIPA debate. Yes, the bills are terrible and must be stopped at all costs, but sooner or later we as the Internet generation are going to have to get used to having to pay for things we like.
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On January 18 2012 21:43 atmuh wrote:
why dont people just buy music
buy music OR ELSE
your internet is GONE son
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On January 18 2012 21:43 atmuh wrote:
why dont people just buy music
Because at some point you just can't afford buying any more music blindly.
Although it's getting better now that the record labels are facing a hard time and production costs of making and distributing music are going down.
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On January 19 2012 03:51 HwangjaeTerran wrote:Because at some point you just can't afford buying any more music blindly. Although it's getting better now that the record labels are facing a hard time and production costs of making and distributing music are going down.
You don't buy cars blindly, right?
Why does everyone think music is some kind of fundamental right?
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I would pay for music, if it wouldn't finance the people, that make it harder for me to get music.
I don't want to pay for DRM or shitty distribution systems or marketing or packaging. I don't need it and don't want it.
Why is it so hard for the Music Industry to make Pirate Bay with paying? You go there, search for what you want, pay a reasonable price and get Music without a catch.
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On January 19 2012 05:19 Blurio wrote:
I would pay for music, if it wouldn't finance the people, that make it harder for me to get music.
I don't want to pay for DRM or shitty distribution systems or marketing or packaging. I don't need it and don't want it.
Why is it so hard for the Music Industry to make Pirate Bay with paying? You go there, search for what you want, pay a reasonable price and get Music without a catch.
this is exactly how buying music on amazon works
On January 19 2012 04:19 werynais wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 03:51 HwangjaeTerran wrote:On January 18 2012 21:43 atmuh wrote:
why dont people just buy music Because at some point you just can't afford buying any more music blindly. Although it's getting better now that the record labels are facing a hard time and production costs of making and distributing music are going down. You don't buy cars blindly, right? Why does everyone think music is some kind of fundamental right?
because theyve been stealing it for years
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the main problem is that EVERYONE EXCEPT GERMANS are allowed to use grooveshark. whats up with that huh?
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My hate is eternal. Grooveshark was THE music streaming platform. Now I have to use a proxy or similar shit to use grooveshark. Fuck you, GEMA.
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On January 19 2012 05:33 Coopa826 wrote:
the main problem is that EVERYONE EXCEPT GERMANS are allowed to use grooveshark. whats up with that huh?
Are you seriously asking?
Simple answer: different countries , different laws.
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Excuse my Aussie ignorance, but what is GEMA? (Fucking SOPA causing wikipedia to go down ;p)
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On January 19 2012 05:33 Coopa826 wrote:
the main problem is that EVERYONE EXCEPT GERMANS are allowed to use grooveshark. whats up with that huh?
Clearly it's a international conspiracy against Germans. Soon you will be working in our chocolate mines.(no music ofc)
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Damn that sucks, a lot of that bullshit going around. :/
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On January 19 2012 03:16 werynais wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 02:41 KeksX wrote:On January 19 2012 01:53 werynais wrote:On January 19 2012 01:37 Zocat wrote:On January 19 2012 01:23 werynais wrote:On January 19 2012 00:49 KeksX wrote:On January 19 2012 00:45 TylerThaCreator wrote:On January 19 2012 00:33 KeksX wrote:On January 19 2012 00:25 werynais wrote:
LOL if you call GEMA a shady organization what do you call Grooveshark then?
Some of you guys really have a weird perspective of life. I don't know whats wrong with you... Calling people's perspectives on lives weird just because they have different priorities and/or views. Don't make this discussion personal just to make your arguments stronger, please. Do I call you an idiot for what you say? No. You have a right for your opinion and eventhough I don't agree with you I respect and accept it. The fact that Grooveshark's staff uploaded copyrighted material and got sued for this was just plain dumb(of them for uploading this in the first place). But thats not shady. It's out there you can read it up for yourself. You know what they did and what they did was dumb. You can call them idiots for that, but not shady. GEMA however is intransparent in the way they work and even their members don't always know whats going on. If thats not shady then I don't know what is. Or what would you call shady? @MyLastSerenade: Yea, but not comfortable ones(Proxies etc). I didn't try simfy yet but maybe it's a good alternative. No, it's weird for you to call GEMA a shady organization when their objective is to protect the interests of musicians/the corporations associated with them when Grooveshark was operating illegally in Germany. Thats the point: GEMA is supposed to do that, gets criticized by it's members for not doing so properly and hides what they do with 40% of the money they got. What grooveshark did is a grey area in Germany. It is NOT illegal. It is arguable whether some of the things there are illegal or not (for example it would've been illegal to upload songs to grooveshark), but opening up grooveshark and listening to songs is legal, or at least in the grey area. And as long as grooveshark would've paid the amount demanded, it would've been legal for them, too. Thats why they stop now: They don't pay, so they close their service. Remember: We are not talking about actual crimes where people get hurt, we are talking about people wanting money. And as long as they get money, they are happy. Please stop. If you think it's legal for the user to "stream" his songs from grooveshark you may be right (i think you are not, look up a recent case where the court said streaming is no different than downloading, and thats completely right, i think it was kino.to), but thats not important. GS does not have the right to stream songs because they don't have agreements with the record labels, why do you think they get sued all the time? THEY DONT PAY ROALITIES. THE ARTIST GETS NOTHING. So GS gets money for something they didn't produce, the producer gets NOTHING, thats a crime, and shady. Youtube had agreements with the copyright holders / record labels (in some cases) and those videos still got blocked by GEMA. GEMA is an outdated, antiquated institution which hurts musicians, record labels and everyone asociated (as well as the end user). Only a small number of "artists" benefit from GEMA - and shockingly all those guys are directly involved in GEMA. As a already said, GEMA is not the main Problem. It's only a matter of time till GS gets shut down completely unless they start paying royalties or make other agreements with the record labelslyt. Thats the whole point. This is what the GEMA is there for. It was GEMAs job to make sure that Grooveshark does pay money so artists get their fair share, but they demanded such a high amount of money that Grooveshark decided it's not profitable to do this. You cant be serious now Oo, lets look at this quote from yourself: Show nested quote +On January 19 2012 00:11 KeksX wrote:On January 18 2012 23:57 aendi wrote:well, according to a statement released by GEMA (heise.de news article), grooveshark never wanted to even pay a minimal amount of money to GEMA and never contacted them at all. seems like GEMA isn't the only one at fault here. Thanks for the article, that takes everything into a different perspective. At least in this situation, because GEMA is still a shady "organisation", or however you want to call it. Let's see how, or if, groovesharks responds to this.
I said let's see how Grooveshark responds to this. Whats wrong about that?
GEMA first talks about their price for each song, which Grooveshark says is too high for them. Now GEMA says they didn't even want to pay ANYTHING, and now Grooveshark has to reply to that.
If they don't reply we know that Grooveshark is run by blatant idiots, but that doesn't change the way GEMA works in any way.
I think you just want to make a point that is clear for everyone and you want to somehow make me look wrong, but I'm not even saying anything that isn't common knowledge ... GEMA is clearly a shady organization and whether Grooveshark is or not is not clear yet. They can still end up being completely right in this whole case, but if they don't say anything, as I already said, they're clearly idiots. And shady as well. (Well we already know that there are/were idiots that uploaded illegal content.. But that were isolated cases)
I'm in no way saying anything like "We should abolish GEMA completely!!", I know that artists need money as well and I'm in no way demanding free music. But I do want a modern business model within the music industry and I think that companies like Grooveshark, simfy, pandora etc have the best ideas regarding that.
Oh, and about kino.to:
They weren't charged for the streaming service itself, because thats not illegal. They were charged for illegally uploading and hosting content. If they had talked to the right people and made contracts with them kino.to would still be alive.
@atmuh:
Don't generalize this. Listening to a music stream has nothing to do with stealing music. I don't own the music and as long as the artists get paid in any reasonable way it's fine.
However, downloading and saving these songs to your hdd without the artists getting any money whatsoever is indeed stealing. But thats why streaming services have to pay. But all that shold be done in a reasonable way, not with unrealistic and claims. Let me just remind you of the "youtube incident", where GEMA wanted up till 12 cents per video view(according to YT)
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Guys just install the "stealthy" addon for chrome or firefox. Then go to grooveshark with proxy make the proxy offline while on grooveshark then logoff and login and your playlists are there...very easy.ah and yes FUCK GEMA
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This is really shitty.
At any rate, as far as the debate is concerned, I'll start buying albums again when they aren't DRMed to shit and there's a good demo beforehand. I've still bought the albums of a couple of my favourite bands, but the Orwell crap is getting to me.
I stopped buying music when they stopped actually giving it to me.
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hmm using lastfm.de as alternative now.... its not the same but at least they play decent music :x
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EPT
