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Blogs > genesis_crimsonheart
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genesis_crimsonheart
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States81 Posts
January 10 2012 00:01 GMT
#1
Hey internet people, I have been recently promoted to the groups Dungeon master. See here is the problem. Our group has only played this game like once and I really need help with not only the basic rules, but with the dungeon master stuff. Can anyone help?

**
Infinite in mystery is the gift of the Goddess.
RogerX
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
New Zealand3180 Posts
January 10 2012 00:09 GMT
#2
Uhhhh...

5/5
Stick it up. take it up. step aside and see the world
genesis_crimsonheart
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States81 Posts
January 10 2012 00:12 GMT
#3
Thank you for your words of wisdom!
Infinite in mystery is the gift of the Goddess.
freelander
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Hungary4707 Posts
January 10 2012 00:15 GMT
#4
buy a dnd DM handbook from an RPG shop
i'm sure there is one
And all is illuminated.
genesis_crimsonheart
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States81 Posts
January 10 2012 00:17 GMT
#5
I have both the players manual and the dm one, it is really long though and everything is weird
Infinite in mystery is the gift of the Goddess.
Uranium
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1077 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 00:26:43
January 10 2012 00:23 GMT
#6
Use your imagination. If it's your first time you may want to create a somewhat streamlined story for your players to follow, but be prepared for them to try to do stuff that you won't expect. Since you are an inexperienced DM, you may have to find ways to keep them on track.

Example:
(players are following a forest path with some NPCs)
Player: I run into the forest and go hunting!
You: The brush is too thick for you to leave the path.

A more experienced DM can allow the players to do unexpected things and just make stuff up on-the-fly, but this requires good knowledge of the game.


edit: Yes, you need to read the entire players handbook (at least all the classes and spells that your players, NPCs, and monsters will be using) as well as the entire DM handbook. Reading the Monster Manual will help you get good ideas for what types of monsters to pit the players against, and what they can handle.

Also, if you are having a hard time coming up with a good campaign, you can find campaign books that have everything done for you, which might be a good starting point for inexperienced players. Or you can find fan-made campaigns online and use/adapt them. Just make sure that whatever campaign you are running is appropriate for the level range of your players.
"Sentry imba! You see? YOU SEE??!!" - Sen | "Marauder die die!" - oGsMC | "Oh my god, she texted me back!" - Day[9]
Tzel
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States72 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 00:39:19
January 10 2012 00:28 GMT
#7
Go to your local hobby/tabletop gaming store and ask if they have any older groups that you could sit in on in order to get firsthand experience on the way a group should flow. When I was trying to adjust into being a DM it was invaluable the time I spent with other groups seeing how they worked.

It's also a good idea to check some of the pre-composed adventure plot-thingies, since it takes most of the prep time off of your shoulders.

As uranium said, your imagination plays a key part in it too. If you can't think of all the "what ifs" that can appear in any given situation, you need to train yourself to the point where you do.

Five stars and GLHF!

EDIT: Just saw the basic rules stuff lol.

It's a good idea to grab a copy of the character sheet you're going to be using and make sure you can fill out absolutely everything (with the help of the PHB and MM) - especially when it comes to BAB, AC...attack as opposed to damage...etc. Also, remember as DM you make the rules to everything. If you want to exclude the weight system to cut down on your calculations, then you can do so.

EDIT 2: Sorry, I don't play 4E, I play 3.5e. No abilities there
I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it.
genesis_crimsonheart
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States81 Posts
January 10 2012 00:32 GMT
#8
I plan on reading the whole book, but it is a little confusing at first, thanks for helping me clear things up. Explain the ability system please.
Infinite in mystery is the gift of the Goddess.
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
January 10 2012 00:52 GMT
#9
Read the DMG, twice. Read all rulebooks you are going to use. You need to know the rules better than the players

The ability system in 4.0 is ridiculously simple. PCS pick abilities, the ones they picked are "trained" they get a +5 to all checks with them, the ones they didn't pick are "untrained" (what they can pick and how much is determined by their class), when they want to do something relevant to a skill, you make them roll for it. E.G. if the paladin is running away from a dragon and needs to climb a wall, you make them roll, if the number rolled + the relevant ability score + 1/2level + 5(if trained) - any circumstantial penalties + any circumstantial bonuses is higher or equal to a predetermined number you picked ahead of time or improvised on the fly (called a DC or difficulty class) ( the number is determined by you and modified by anything relevant [e.g. if the paladin just lost his arm, you might make him take a -10 to his roll], the rules for DCs are explained in the DMG).

Really though, nothing we say is going to help until you've read AT LEAST the PHB and DMG once, read them and then come ask for advice. I've been DMing for almost 5 years and am happy to help, but you need to put some work in first ^_^
Moderator
Misanthrope
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States924 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 01:01:25
January 10 2012 00:54 GMT
#10
I suggest buying what's called a Module to start. It is essentially a full pre-made adventure in a small book. If your group prefers a specific campaign setting such as Forgotten Realms or Eberron, make sure it's set in that universe. Also make sure it uses the same ruleset as your core books, i.e. 3.0, 3.5, 4. Read through the Module, and become familiar with the things involved therein, such as the monsters, magic items, and all the rules that pertain to them. Put post-it notes in the Module that denote what pages in other books contain pertinent information. Going through this process is a streamlined way of keeping yourself engaged without being bogged down by information overload. The rest is just story telling really.

If you've no idea how a typical game should look or flow, I suggest asking around a hobby shop for a game you can sit in on. This will be an invaluable mostly visual guide as you move your group from "What is this I don't even" to dethroning Ao and ruling over the entirety of existence.
Resolve to perform what you ought. Perform without fail what you resolve. - Benjamin Franklin
genesis_crimsonheart
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States81 Posts
January 10 2012 00:55 GMT
#11
Alright, thanks a ton guys! Now a personal question, what is your favorite class/race pairing and why? Gender?
Infinite in mystery is the gift of the Goddess.
Psycosquirrel
Profile Joined October 2008
United States161 Posts
January 10 2012 00:55 GMT
#12
On January 10 2012 09:32 genesis_crimsonheart wrote:
I plan on reading the whole book, but it is a little confusing at first, thanks for helping me clear things up. Explain the ability system please.


The ability system isnt very bad. Each round, players have three actions they can take on their turn (Standard, Move, and Minor). Each ability (or power as they're more commonly called) is one of these, with there being a few exceptions that are free actions, or reactions.

One thing i would advise is that if you are the DM, you run the game. If you're not sure how a rule works, and you cant find / dont want to find out what the rule actually is, your rule is law. You are the emperor of the game. You probably want to follow the rules, or at least not piss off your players, but your rule is absolute.
FuDDx *
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States5008 Posts
January 10 2012 00:57 GMT
#13
Get some Modules!!

They are pre built adventures. Im sure with a little digging you could find online ones. They are usually geared to a particular level say for lvls 3-5 or 8-10 etc. Even looking through a few and tweaking them can help build more experience.

If you guys are really having fun try looking around for some board gaming groups or dice chucking groups they are cross breeders. Usually you can find some one time adventures or even some more gaming buddies.

Check your local Gaming shops!! errrr I mean Ye ole Gaming Shope
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Balloon-Man-FuDD/237447769616965?ref=hl
TheToast
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4808 Posts
January 10 2012 00:57 GMT
#14
Inspiration: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

I've only played D&D a few times, but the DM didn't really develop any back story to his campaign. It really hurts the world immersion if you don't even know the name of the king and his house. (if you're reading, I appreciate the effort though )
Detailed back story can make such a difference in the flow of the game if you're building a campaign from scratch.

Keep the group alive and interested, those are your two goals.
I like the way the walls go out. Gives you an open feeling. Firefly's a good design. People don't appreciate the substance of things. Objects in space. People miss out on what's solid.
Meatloaf
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Spain664 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 00:59:52
January 10 2012 00:59 GMT
#15
well , i had been dungeon master in the past but its almost 5 years since i had a pen and paper game!! but what the hell i'll say something

If they dont know its your first time directing , let them know.

Start with a basic set of rules and try to make the always classic "group enters into the dungeon for treasurezz" type of quest , draw a map beforehand for you ,this helps for you to see how the quest can unfold for them as they play.

Try to add enemies to the rooms so its not too hard or too easy (I think the DM handbooks gives you tips on that (you could make a little calculation for the challenge value or sth) , if you are not sure start with little enemies per room and try to scale it up as you go on , youll get the feel easy) dont go with too many types of enemies as youll be busy trying to make this first playthrough more or less smooth , kobolds and a Boss of your choice usually will do the job and you can worry about other things.

if you have rogue in the group (you should!!) put one or two traps , I usually tend to put one really early (but really light one!) to see if the group is aware and put them on their toes.

and well , try to get the feel of it , initiative , movement , to hit , damage... and start the round again. If all of you are noobs i'd suggest not to have mages/wizards the first time you play as they complicate the stuff you need to go through as DM , its not a problem if the player knows how it works and helps a little bit with it.

Everything else is just about storytelling and having FUN , i remember forgetting to throw dices sometimes or just obviating entire sets of rules , especially at the beginning it will be hard to be on top of everything but at the end you will only remember the fun time you had so... just go on and dont worry too much , dont be always checking the rulebook and just go through the things as they make sense to you (resisting poisons is about fortitude / evading things that go directly to your face is about reflexes , and so on...)

Surprise them with things like , everyone throw for "hearing"! (i did play in spanish so ... ) to see if they notice ambushes around... and if they dont stay silent and make creepy things with your fingers heheheheh

but in the end ... just have fun and start with lvl 1 chars and REALLY basic equipment/potions , the more naked the basics are now the better for you to learn them and grasp them; if you keep on playing the characters will grow as you grow as a DM and everything will be great!!

Edit: and oh yeah , Modules are great to start too!!
genesis_crimsonheart
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States81 Posts
January 10 2012 01:04 GMT
#16
haha, you guys know so much about this you make it seem even more complicated, lolz jk thanks you guys always need help :p
Infinite in mystery is the gift of the Goddess.
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11378 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 01:14:05
January 10 2012 01:06 GMT
#17
I don't like running preset missions, but I guess if everyone hasn't really played, it might be better.

One of the best things is to prepare your missions with built in flexibility. So you have a set of clues that you want them to solve. However consider having more than one way to solve it. They will probably come up with something different, but having thought about how you would adjust it, will help. In addition, if you prepare less in a linear fashion and more if they choose this, then this, if they choose this, then this. You can often shift your events and encounters around behind the scenes

Do try and reward creative thinking if it seems reasonable. They decide to cut the power (I gm Star Wars rpg), roll with it, even if you didn't consider that option. If it seems unlikely, give it negative modifiers.

If you do create your own, try to build into it specific encounters that will allow opportunity for the specific skills that your players have trained in. (It's helpful to know what sort of characters your players have created.)

Be familiar with the rules, but don't get too bogged down in the rules when playing. Nothing bogs it down more than spending 15min looking for some obscure rule. DM has the final word and if you're reasonable about it, you can usually make up some modifier and the players will be cool with it. (Always be reasonable.)

You could consider running a GM character so that you can drop hints in character without having to break out of character to advise them what's what. You just need to make sure the GM character fills a missing hole in the party and plays a more support role. You definitely don't want the GM (sorry DM) character solving all the puzzles and kicking butt. I started using GM/DM character, but after awhile I found it more a nuisance to keep track of, but it might be useful training wheels at the beginning.

The main thing is to have fun- also find out whether your players want more of an epic storyline over time (don't ever consider it like a book thought) or whether they just want a dungeon crawl hack'n slash.


Finally, you have GOT to read this comic strip by Shamus Young called DM of the Rings Very funny even if you're not that into DnD and very much a perfect example of how NOT to run a campaign. (Railroading players to the max.)
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 01:36:21
January 10 2012 01:34 GMT
#18
On January 10 2012 09:01 genesis_crimsonheart wrote:
Hey internet people, I have been recently promoted to the groups Dungeon master. See here is the problem. Our group has only played this game like once and I really need help with not only the basic rules, but with the dungeon master stuff. Can anyone help?

Read up a bit on designing encounters/traps. Don't overdo them, because you want to actually finish an area eventually.

If you've played other RPGs, take inspiration for designing dungeons and quests.

Don't worry too much about knowing tiny details, if everyone's played you'll be fine with the basics. If something comes up that's unconventional, work with it - give some flexibility to the players.
genesis_crimsonheart
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States81 Posts
January 10 2012 01:38 GMT
#19
Yeah I've been playing rpgs for like ever so...
Infinite in mystery is the gift of the Goddess.
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 01:50:24
January 10 2012 01:43 GMT
#20
On January 10 2012 10:38 genesis_crimsonheart wrote:
Yeah I've been playing rpgs for like ever so...

Then you should have a ton of ideas of what you could toss into a dungeon. When I DM'd for my friends (with pretty much no DnD experience for any of us), I grabbed ideas from Dwarf Fortress and Might and Magic. Once you've got a concept, look for how they can be translated into a DnD setting. I mainly looked through indexes of monster manuals to find the kinds of enemy I wanted, or looked at the stats to design one that was level-appropriate.

Draw up a map, a bestiary of all the monsters you're using (so you can quickly refer to their stats/abilities), and a list of 'events' for each area so you know what you want to happen. In that stage, you can also prepare situations for whatever the player might do, get some descriptions and dialogue for NPCs down, and so on.

Some things I learned in my first few tries:

Encounters take awhile. Make sure each encounter has a specific point - storyline relevance, an interesting terrain feature to make the battle unique, or whatever you can consider. Avoid just throwing encounter after encounter at the party because it slows things down.

Also be careful with traps - make sure they're either a key component of a battle (similar to a terrain feature) or on a very marked area (a key door or something). Leaving traps scattered around just leaves the party checking incessantly and slowing the pace (or makes removing the passively detected traps a mundanity). Make them interesting and needing some figuring out beyond just rolling a skill check to disarm.

Players are resilient as hell. I went in not knowing how much I could throw at the party and found that, unlike games like Baldur's Gate would suggest, the party is pretty hard to kill. Obviously you don't want to kill them, but making them fear defeat once in awhile is fun. Not every encounter needs to be winnable - if you're a dick (and the DM always is), you can make them run. And if they come up with something insane to win anyways, all the more fun.
Fishgle
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2174 Posts
January 10 2012 02:10 GMT
#21
http://dndtools.eu/

http://www.d20srd.org/


Cheaper than buying the books.
aka ChillyGonzalo / GnozL
Zocat
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2229 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-10 02:57:12
January 10 2012 02:53 GMT
#22
I'd say use a premade adventure for lv 1 characters. Try checking the website of the publisher - most have an introductionary adventure.
Yes, you can make up your own adventure, but you dont know how to balance anything at all, and it WILL suck.

Also you should talk to your players prior to playing.
Make clear that you're the GM - your word is final, and you can overrule every rule in the rulebook if you want to (though you shouldnt do that^^).
Also make sure you understand:: You're not the players adversary. You are their friend. And it's your job to provide a fun (and challenging) experience for your group. It's NOT your job to kill them.

Other topics prior to playing:
Freedom.
"Imagine if you arrive in a village, learn that recently bandits attacked and kidnapped the mayor's daughter. The bandits went <that way> please rescue her!"
So the adventure is probably (^^) to rescue that daughter. But your players can say "No - we dont care!" and go the other direction. Do your players want that kind of freedom? Do you want to give your players that kind of freedom and improvise the whole evening?
It's the concept of railroading (which Falling already mentioned) - do you want to allow actions which are not important to the adventure or do you want to deny players to play their characters in whatever way they wish?
Different groups - different tastes, discuss what the group / you wants and then play accordingly. Normally it's best to allow small free action stuff ("I want to go hunting after we made camp for the night" (even though the hunter might miss an important encounter which happens while he is out hunting)), but deny the big stuff ("We want to visit that unimportant village which the merchant mentioned"). You can find ingame reasons ("the bridge is destroyed" , ...) or just tell your players out of the game "It's unimportant". Again - ask your players what they prefer.

Also talk about FUN vs REALISM.
The cave system which the bandits inhabit. There are a total of 7 bandits and their half-orc leader spread around. For whatever reason (bad luck for players, good rolls for you^^) after the 2 initial bandits the group is seriously injured. But you (or the author of the adventure^^) planned that there is another group of 3 bandits before the half orc leader and his 2 favourite lackeys.
If you go the FUN route: let your group find a healing potion. Or for whatever reason those 3 bandits are not at home and out hunting (though they might come back later if the characters linger around too long after defeating the boss). Or the bandits didnt only capture the mayor's daughter but also a cleric/fighter who can help the group (with heals or combat experience). Give the players a chance to succesfully complete the adventure
Basically: Adjust the adventure to how the dice go. Good rolls for the players? Make it more challenging. Bad rolls? Make it easier.
If you go the REALISM route: If the characters dont retreat they will probably die. No healing potion, no help. Full enemy presence. But also dont add more challenges if it's too easy
Again - discuss what your group & you prefer.

During the game:
No long discussion (rule, logic, realism, ....) during the game. If you cannot come to an agreement - just say what happens. You're the GM and we established earlier that whatever you say is the law
If you cannot decide - roll a d6 (1-3 result A, 4+ result B).

After the game:
Talk about the problems which occured during the game. How will you solve it next time? (Dont go back on your decision though! Only the next time when the same problem occurs you solve it the new way)
Discuss other stuff which occured during the game (railroading problems, fun / realism problems, ...) after the game.
Ask your players what they liked - and what they didnt like. Also tell your players what you liked / didnt like.
Try to keep all those things in mind for the next session so you can improve everyone's experience.
FluffyBinLaden
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States527 Posts
January 10 2012 07:25 GMT
#23
FYI, I'm not sure what we're using is 4.0, Brandon, might want to check that out.
Riddles in the Dark. Answers in the Light.
genesis_crimsonheart
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States81 Posts
January 10 2012 23:12 GMT
#24
I am a big fan of Final Fantasy, star ocean and you know, that stuff. So I think it will be easy for me to come up with some stuff. I tend to make things to easy, so I think i will have to focus on making it harder and making it so they learn how to play on my world.
Infinite in mystery is the gift of the Goddess.
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