• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:35
CEST 03:35
KST 10:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed15Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed Who will win EWC 2025? RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Server Blocker
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Soulkey Muta Micro Map? [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread We are Ready to Testify: Emergence Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 587 users

SC2 and Immaturity - Page 2

Blogs > FuRRyChoBo
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 15:45:55
December 15 2011 15:43 GMT
#21
I was only refering to the international scene, true. However, even BW in Korea will die eventually. Computer games belong to a very precise time and have a very short life span in comparison to sports who have been around for decades or centuries - with changing rules of course, but under the same form.

Edit: so your new wife, as a teacher, is an exception to us all, and her clinging to the past and fearing the future is a completely rational analysis of how things are?
Or maybe it is just that things change, and change faster and faster as communications in the world are accelerated?

I don't know but one of the above propositions just sounds much more reasonable.
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
December 15 2011 15:52 GMT
#22
I don't see the point of this. Have you read posts from before sc2 came out? The community was just as immature. ESPORTS as a whole has changed A LOT and grown A LOT and obviously a lot of new people will come. And what naniwa did was not match fixing.
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
December 15 2011 15:55 GMT
#23
On December 16 2011 00:43 Kukaracha wrote:
I was only refering to the international scene, true. However, even BW in Korea will die eventually. Computer games belong to a very precise time and have a very short life span in comparison to sports who have been around for decades or centuries - with changing rules of course, but under the same form.

Edit: so your new wife, as a teacher, is an exception to us all, and her clinging to the past and fearing the future is a completely rational analysis of how things are?
Or maybe it is just that things change, and change faster and faster as communications in the world are accelerated?

I don't know but one of the above propositions just sounds much more reasonable.


i don't know how old you are - im 30 - lol she aint clinging to any past man, we're just about as immature as it gets.

the thing, you can't understand unless you actually go to any highschool class nowaday and see for yourself, it's really insane.

i'm not a fan of "respect" as a whole, but dude, things are on a whole different league than a mere 15 years ago.

kids go all day saying stuff like "shut the fuck up" to teachers, they use their cellphones inside the class... and that's not even the bad stuff, that's like, the "normal" attitude.

compared to 15 years ago, most of classes are like, 1 year backward programm wise - a 14 years old student in highschool today is about the level of a 12 years old 15 years ago.

today standard is beeing a complete retard - it was already in action within my generation, but today, TV / Massmedias, fully achieved their goal of dumbing down the whole population.
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
December 15 2011 17:04 GMT
#24
You're talking about a specific experience while not knowing how kids behave in other societies/countries/regions, and not knowing how kids behaved in the past.

All that is happening is that a rigid and timeless structure (republican school, in the French sense) is applied to a volatile and changing factor (people). The former will eventually always become irrelevant, because the latter is always evolving in an unpredictable way.

Many feel as if the population was dumber than they were before, but this is what happens:
  • Our young self goes through school, experiences a certain setting,
  • We grow up and develop a critical way of thinking,
  • We look back at things and overestimate people and ideas (the human brain has a tendency to make up memories, but that's another topic)
  • We look at the present with new, cynical, analytic adult eyes and realize how shitty many things are,
  • Then blame it on the world, and not on our vision, even though it is more likely that it is our vision that changed, because the world shitfting to a new era is not something that happens everyday.


Add to this the illusion that we KNOW the WORLD. Mass media didn't leave us untouched. How can we say "people here do this, kids there do that" and qualify the unversal situation as bad without even defining who exactly are "the people" and where exactly is "here". I will say "people in Europe" all the time even though I've only visited briefly towns in Germany, England and Spain. I've probably seen 0,0001% of the people that live in the geographical area of Europe and yet I assume I know the way Europeans in general think!



People becoming dumber, the past being better, all of those are illusions fed by logical fallacies and personal frustrations.
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 17:31:56
December 15 2011 17:30 GMT
#25
On December 16 2011 02:04 Kukaracha wrote:
You're talking about a specific experience while not knowing how kids behave in other societies/countries/regions, and not knowing how kids behaved in the past.

All that is happening is that a rigid and timeless structure (republican school, in the French sense) is applied to a volatile and changing factor (people). The former will eventually always become irrelevant, because the latter is always evolving in an unpredictable way.

Many feel as if the population was dumber than they were before, but this is what happens:
  • Our young self goes through school, experiences a certain setting,
  • We grow up and develop a critical way of thinking,
  • We look back at things and overestimate people and ideas (the human brain has a tendency to make up memories, but that's another topic)
  • We look at the present with new, cynical, analytic adult eyes and realize how shitty many things are,
  • Then blame it on the world, and not on our vision, even though it is more likely that it is our vision that changed, because the world shitfting to a new era is not something that happens everyday.


Add to this the illusion that we KNOW the WORLD. Mass media didn't leave us untouched. How can we say "people here do this, kids there do that" and qualify the unversal situation as bad without even defining who exactly are "the people" and where exactly is "here". I will say "people in Europe" all the time even though I've only visited briefly towns in Germany, England and Spain. I've probably seen 0,0001% of the people that live in the geographical area of Europe and yet I assume I know the way Europeans in general think!



People becoming dumber, the past being better, all of those are illusions fed by logical fallacies and personal frustrations.


you're reading way too much in what i type man

yeah i was merely talking about today's first hand experience in french school

but your sophistic views on the way we percieve things are just as much rigid, irrealistic and old fashionned as what you think has to be critisized in my point of view.

im not cynical at all and i didn't really qualify anything but most of western society

i'm pretty sure US highschool classes look as retarded as french ones tbh

edit : oh lol i reread your post what you said is actually totally retarded haha
go get some more experience
Kukaracha
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
France1954 Posts
December 15 2011 17:40 GMT
#26
Um... yes. Strong arguments indeed.

On a side, note, "western society" does not mean much and probably encompasses more than a billion people, which is roughly 1/5th of world population. One does not "know" the "western society" after watching a few hours of TV.

But enough with this off-topic debate, we can continue by PM if you sincerely wish to speak about the matter.
Le long pour l'un pour l'autre est court (le mot-à-mot du mot "amour").
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
December 15 2011 17:55 GMT
#27
On December 16 2011 02:40 Kukaracha wrote:
Um... yes. Strong arguments indeed.

On a side, note, "western society" does not mean much and probably encompasses more than a billion people, which is roughly 1/5th of world population. One does not "know" the "western society" after watching a few hours of TV.

But enough with this off-topic debate, we can continue by PM if you sincerely wish to speak about the matter.


i dont watch tv wtf are you talking about i didnt own one in a decade
i travelled around quite a bit
Mothra
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1448 Posts
December 15 2011 17:58 GMT
#28
Yep sense of entitlement pretty bad. Pointing it out is about as useful as throwing sand into the wind though. I agree with you on most points.
OpticalShot
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Canada6330 Posts
December 15 2011 18:34 GMT
#29
How the f*** did this blog get derailed so hard?

On topic: I agree that nowadays eSports fans take too many things for granted. Heck, even players take things for granted - oh, thanks for the invite to play in one of the most prestigious tournaments in the world but since I'm tired from playing 3 games, I'm just going to throw the last one in the worst possible way possible. As a short note, I believe what Naniwa should have done is formally forfeit citing reasons such as physical and mental fatigue, and I also believe he should have been given a warning instead of revocation, but that's just me.

What we observed with the recent incident is the feverish defence by the nationals. There is no doubt that the international community involvement increased ever since the release of SC2. You can't leave out nationalism as a major factor in these arguments. For that I somewhat sympathize with the 'Naniwa defenders.' When the fever passes and the heat dies down, I'm sure many of them will look back and honestly say, "boy that was stupid."
[TLMS] REBOOT
MattBarry
Profile Joined March 2011
United States4006 Posts
December 15 2011 19:14 GMT
#30
On December 16 2011 00:55 Boonbag wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 16 2011 00:43 Kukaracha wrote:
I was only refering to the international scene, true. However, even BW in Korea will die eventually. Computer games belong to a very precise time and have a very short life span in comparison to sports who have been around for decades or centuries - with changing rules of course, but under the same form.

Edit: so your new wife, as a teacher, is an exception to us all, and her clinging to the past and fearing the future is a completely rational analysis of how things are?
Or maybe it is just that things change, and change faster and faster as communications in the world are accelerated?

I don't know but one of the above propositions just sounds much more reasonable.


i don't know how old you are - im 30 - lol she aint clinging to any past man, we're just about as immature as it gets.

the thing, you can't understand unless you actually go to any highschool class nowaday and see for yourself, it's really insane.

i'm not a fan of "respect" as a whole, but dude, things are on a whole different league than a mere 15 years ago.

kids go all day saying stuff like "shut the fuck up" to teachers, they use their cellphones inside the class... and that's not even the bad stuff, that's like, the "normal" attitude.

compared to 15 years ago, most of classes are like, 1 year backward programm wise - a 14 years old student in highschool today is about the level of a 12 years old 15 years ago.

today standard is beeing a complete retard - it was already in action within my generation, but today, TV / Massmedias, fully achieved their goal of dumbing down the whole population.

So I'm an 11th grader. Where the actual fuck have you heard a student tell a teacher to shut the fuck up. I can not even contemplate the consequences.
Platinum Support GOD
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
December 15 2011 19:20 GMT
#31
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. "
Glacierz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1244 Posts
December 15 2011 19:54 GMT
#32
OP is one of the few people who gets it. Sadly the forums are overpopulated with the generation of entitlement you are referring to.
Smurphy
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States374 Posts
December 15 2011 20:15 GMT
#33
This blog is about chiding those who have a sense of entitlement and express it via the internet on these forums. People expect a certain aspect of the Starcraft universe to be up to their expectations, their expectations are not meant and then they complain about it via the team liquid forums.

Then, the original poster expects a certain aspect of the Starcraft universe to be up to his or her expectations, his/her expectations are not meant, and he complains about it via the team liquid forums.
FuRRyChoBo
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States218 Posts
December 15 2011 20:51 GMT
#34
On December 16 2011 05:15 Smurphy wrote:
This blog is about chiding those who have a sense of entitlement and express it via the internet on these forums. People expect a certain aspect of the Starcraft universe to be up to their expectations, their expectations are not meant and then they complain about it via the team liquid forums.

Then, the original poster expects a certain aspect of the Starcraft universe to be up to his or her expectations, his/her expectations are not meant, and he complains about it via the team liquid forums.


I knew this post was coming, and I was wondering how I would respond to it when the time came.

The honest truth is that I literally only ask for respect within the community. It's one thing to have a Rekrul-esque big ego, but it's a completely different thing to complain constantly about things you can't control and should be thankful for.

About the Stork/Savior incidents in BW, I was more disappointed then than I am now, for the same reasons discussed in my original post. Especially, for me, the Savior scandal was mind-blowing. Savior was my favorite professional gamer of all time, but obviously I was ashamed to learn what he had done in the time after his reign as Bonjwa. It's that sort of thing that can seriously ruin the legacy of a game, and it's too early in SC2's life to have it happening through "professionals" throwing games. I choose to remember Savior for his legendary gameplay, and forgive, forget, and accept his lifetime ban from any other professional gaming.

In my eyes, the people saying that GOM was at fault for arranging the "meaningless" game are completely brainless. Here's a world-class organization providing an extra game between two VERY good players, and people are saying that it's shouldn't have been played? How spoiled can you be? How can people not see that having that extra game was a benefit to them? The fact that Naniwa pitched the game aside, it could have turned out to be a very entertaining game (especially knowing Nestea was playing). Naniwa acted like a child who didn't get his ice cream after dinner. Yesterday, I tweeted GOM asking them to ban Naniwa from further participation with any of their programs simply out of disgust. Obviously that's a very primitive form of contact and I didn't expect them to take it very seriously, but that sort of thing from a large amount of people would be heard. Unfortunately, the only "overwhelming" response has been people on GOMTV.net complaining about how Naniwa should be allowed to participate in Code S. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be ashamed of GOM if they simply allowed him to continue playing after he blatantly disrespected not only their company and its scheduling, but the fans who are paying to watch the games on a regular basis and keep the eSports scene alive.

I allowed myself to stray pretty far from my original topic, but it's all related. To me, fans should be thankful for the great coverage of the scene that is now available to them (anyone else remember hearing about games via text/screenshot battle reports?). Nothing is owed to you by any of the companies; they do what they do to spread the word of the greatness of the game (and of course, make money, but that's impossible without generating some sort of following). I don't see how anyone expects SC2 to grow to beyond what it is now with stupid shit like throwing games and complaining about free stream quality going on. Nobody outside the scene is going to take us seriously if those within the community don't show the remotest signs of integrity. This goes beyond the reaches of Starcraft; it's a life lesson.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 25m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 183
NeuroSwarm 160
Livibee 151
RuFF_SC2 141
StarCraft: Brood War
Icarus 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever911
League of Legends
JimRising 364
Trikslyr89
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe125
Other Games
tarik_tv23860
summit1g14104
Skadoodle1260
shahzam562
C9.Mang0260
ViBE219
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1800
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta87
• Hupsaiya 75
• HeavenSC 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21781
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
8h 25m
Epic.LAN
10h 25m
CSO Contender
15h 25m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 8h
Online Event
1d 14h
Esports World Cup
3 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
4 days
Esports World Cup
5 days
Esports World Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
Championship of Russia 2025
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.