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Let me preface this post/rant by saying I have an extensive history with BW: I started playing it 1998, obtained roughly B- level on iCCup, and started playing SC2 at the release.
Throughout the time that SC2 has been out, I've noticed that the scene feels literally nothing like the Brood War one did. This idea in itself is neither positive nor negative, but it's the difference between the two scenes that ends up being negative.
I've been considering why the SC2 scene feels different, and I've realized it's because almost everyone that you hear from is completely immature. Having a BW background, I am overwhelmed by the sense of entitlement that a lot of SC2 fans seem to have. In the early 2000's, it was HUGE to get a replay or a VOD of a professional game. I remember very distinctly a ridiculously close game between Boxer and ZergBoy (according to the in-game names) on Lost Temple...I watched that game religiously with my friends for days, perhaps weeks, until another new, exciting replay came out. I didn't know a lot about the game or how to play well, but I was passionate about learning and I was happy to have anything that I could find. Now, even in Brood War, there are free streams going constantly, VODs all over YouTube, and thousands of downloadable replays. The community has truly been spoiled by the wealth of entertainment, but many take this for granted. (This is also a huge factor in why I feel there are still BW elitists, but that's a completely different idea that I won't jump into.)
Think about a tournament like DreamHack. Sure, some people buy the premium packages, and they make a lot of money from sponsorship deals, but they don't HAVE to provide a free stream. They do it to promote eSports, since a lot of people wouldn't watch if they didn't. Of course, it works out both ways because of advertising revenue, but waiting a few moments between each match is a ridiculously small price to pay for the outrageous amount of games that are played and the history that is made with each tournament.
The whole thing with Naniwa, especially the comments on GOMTV...forgive me, but it's fucking pathetic. Here we are as a community, growing faster than anyone can imagine, and there are people defending a player who threw a game on a huge stage more blatantly than I previously had believed to be possible. Sure, there's no set rule in place for not doing this, but it's about respect. It's terribly immature to say, "Well, I don't have anything to gain from this game, so I'm not going to play." This can of worms has been open all day and there's not much left to regurgitate, but this is all tied together.
It is my firm belief that Starcraft is not a sport; it's a computer game. However, that doesn't mean it doesn't take a lot of skill and dedication to excel at the game. In modern times, people are more accepting of this, and the lack of the attachment of the word "sport" to the game you play doesn't necessarily mean that nobody will take it seriously. Think about your parents; half of them probably don't even know how to use a computer efficiently. That's going to be you in 20 years (or less!), and you'll probably have similar beliefs to what you do now in regards to what is competitive and what is not. With that as a premise, why would anyone in his/her right mind condone, if not defend (!), the act of forfeiting a game simply because no money was on the line? Even in SC2's short history, we've seen players forfeit their tournament spots simply because they considered throwing games. I completely support GOM in their denial of Naniwa's Code S spot simply out of respect for the integrity of the game. To be honest, I couldn't give less of a fuck about Naniwa because I think he's a piece of garbage (especially after the events of the past 36 hours), but really all that means to me is that it's not a respected member of the community in my eyes doing it. I'd be shocked if Boxer or Nestea did the same thing...but neither Lim Jae-Duck or Lim Yo Hwan would ever consider doing it because of their respect for the game and its potential history.
This sense of entitlement garbage has to stop. You come home from school, work, whatever, and you have dozens of free games (possibly even professional-grade commentary) available for you to watch and analyze as deeply as you'd like, but many of us choose to complain about it? It's simply illogical, if not downright stupid; YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO ANYTHING. Have a little respect for the history that Blizzard games have made for themselves and the history that can be made with Starcraft II. The game is still very young, and has many glorious years ahead of it...don't be part of the group that complains constantly and tarnishes the reputation.
I have no idea what to expect in response to this post because I clearly just don't understand the community any more, but hopefully some people understand and support where I'm coming from. Maybe I'm just getting old (I'm 21 -_-).
FuRRyChoBo
  
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good blog post!
Completely agree!
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This blog is the truth.
I completely agree.
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United States898 Posts
I agree I completely. I remember when replays came out, and watching replays of "pros" over and over again. I remember when Replay With Audio came out and watching those over and over again and watching koreans streams at 4am that were all in korean..... People today don't seem to realize how amazing the content is that it provided to them. I dunno what to say, I'm glad esports is growing.
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Well met. I agree to what you say. Your guess about elitists is right as well, at least that's what I think too.
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Nice post, couldn't agree more. I've always felt like all the content helps everyone has players more but hurts us as a community more, if that makes any sense.
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Yeah Starcraft 2 is TOTALLY becoming too mainstream, i will have to move on to playing competetive dwarf fortress(WITH NO F***ING GRAPHIC MODS) cause the community there is so much more mature and original.
On a more serious note, this blog is full of crap. What do you mean we are not entitled to anything? Free streams? Do you realize that the companies providing us the streams are making money? BW scene never picked up in foreign countries cause 1) the game was too hard 2) it was butt ugly. Sure you had the likes of you who were "hc" enough to watch and play starcraft instead of Warcraft 3 or CS 1.5(6), but majority of foreign scene was still focused on those 2 games rather than BW. You didn't get replays, cause most of them were played in Korea and as we all know they don't really give a shit about foreigners, atleast when it comes to BW. Wc3 had plenty of replays available, as did CS(demos). What comes to "complaining", well someone has to set the bar somewhere. Dreamhack set it pretty high with their free stream quality and GOMTV's 360p is laughable in comparison.
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I just turned 23 and I'm considering becoming a pro lurker here because of all the nani-defending going on. I don't feel old yet but I probably will in 2 years. It's really a testament to the growth of SC2 that this event hasn't stagnated it for a loooong time, which could have happened 10 years ago. I enjoy watching both games, but it's the SPL live report threads that keep me coming back to TL recently. The immaturity aspect of some parts of the SC2 scene is what's making me pay more attention to BW again.
It's totally worth staying up late or waking up in the middle of the night to watch the games. It's the spirit that matters, and the BW spirit has stayed pure for years. I'm not saying BW is better, but there's just an extra layer of awe that is involved when you're watching something that is held sacred to so many people.
This makes me feel like the SC2 scene needs a neo-Boxer to create this same atmosphere that BW has held onto for so long. There's something to be said for legends, especially when they act as ambassadors of the game and of life, and it's great that Boxer is still in the SC scene, but he's really the ambassador of BW. His importance feels a bit foreign sometimes. I think HuK is coming close but he's not exactly a bonjwa yet.
SC2 needs a champion, and that person needs to take the reigns and show some charisma and be an ambassador. SC2 needs someone like that who is SO respected by the community that, like swearing in front of your grandma, being immature or doing something as immature as what naniwa did would make them so embarrassed and depressed that it just wouldn't be a possibility. Until that person appears the attitude will not change.
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Well of course there is an increase in immaturity, there are a lot of new players in the SC world.
Mentality has changed since BW, its no suprise really. However, I don't really have a say in this because I only played my first game of BW at like 2009 so im unfamiliar in the subject.
That Naniwa incident was very clearly disappointing and an immature action, but he was also in a very moody status because of his previous games. So lets give him a bit of mercy, hmm? Again I don't know if someone was also in Naniwa's shoes before his last match (There probably was) :/
I also want to mention a lot of the gaming community is immature, to be honest the starcraft community is the most mature community I have been to. Look at a MOBA forum like HoN or LoL; constant complaints and attacks towards the developers of the games. I realize this is also existant in the blizzard forums but it is a lot worse at these other sites.
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On December 15 2011 20:03 Kermine wrote:
Yeah Starcraft 2 is TOTALLY becoming too mainstream, i will have to move on to playing competetive dwarf fortress(WITH NO F***ING GRAPHIC MODS) cause the community there is so much more mature and original.
On a more serious note, this blog is full of crap. What do you mean we are not entitled to anything? Free streams? Do you realize that the companies providing us the streams are making money? BW scene never picked up in foreign countries cause 1) the game was too hard 2) it was butt ugly. Sure you had the likes of you who were "hc" enough to watch and play starcraft instead of Warcraft 3 or CS 1.5(6), but majority of foreign scene was still focused on those 2 games rather than BW. You didn't get replays, cause most of them were played in Korea and as we all know they don't really give a shit about foreigners, atleast when it comes to BW. Wc3 had plenty of replays available, as did CS(demos). What comes to "complaining", well someone has to set the bar somewhere. Dreamhack set it pretty high with their free stream quality and GOMTV's 360p is laughable in comparison.
Your shitty post exemplifies what the OP is talking about beautifully. The juxtaposition with hp.Shell's optimistic post stating that, although he loves BW, he's optimistic about SC2 helps that, too.
You think teamliquid just appeared out of thin fucking air? Do you really believe it's a given that the saturation of live, high quality game streams here was just something bound to fucking happen? Do you really look at WC3 now and say "Wow, this looks wayyyyy better than Brood War!"? Or was it really the "butt ugly" (fuck you) graphics that dissuaded foreign audiences, rather than any of countless other possible reasons for the weak foreign SC scene?
FYI, Kermine, I'm pretty sure I hate you. Spare me the canned memetic "cool story bro" or whatever other shit post you come up with in response. It's clear you're the type to take everything as it is now for granted, and your bullshit attitude ensures that no one will take you seriously here.
I assume you're also ugly.
Thanks for providing a perfect example. I've been wanting to post for about an hour now, but couldn't come up with anything.
A bit more on-topic...eh, I agree, more or less. I guess that may or may not be obvious by now.
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just to remember the OP of his glorious "mature" BW days. Go look up the WCG 2007 and tell me how mature Storks behaviour was there in the group stages. Or Saviours match fixing. Really you should not throw stones when you sit in a glass house
there will always be immature people but BW was hardly more "mature" it was simply a very small community compared to what TL is today. And with the increase in people there is bound to be an increase in idiots and those tend to scream the loudest.
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On December 15 2011 20:03 Kermine wrote:
1) the game was too hard 2) it was butt ugly.
This is the kind of person who ruins the image of a whole community.
Way to go SC2 fanboy. Make the image of the SC2 community even worse, because you simply don't care about it apparently.
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I agree with you completely FuRRyChoBo. I loved BW for many reasons, the community being one of the most important ones. But I barely even play SC2 anymore, the immaturity of the community is just appalling. Maybe I'm just getting old too ( Im 21 too ).
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On December 15 2011 21:17 MinusPlus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 20:03 Kermine wrote:
Yeah Starcraft 2 is TOTALLY becoming too mainstream, i will have to move on to playing competetive dwarf fortress(WITH NO F***ING GRAPHIC MODS) cause the community there is so much more mature and original.
On a more serious note, this blog is full of crap. What do you mean we are not entitled to anything? Free streams? Do you realize that the companies providing us the streams are making money? BW scene never picked up in foreign countries cause 1) the game was too hard 2) it was butt ugly. Sure you had the likes of you who were "hc" enough to watch and play starcraft instead of Warcraft 3 or CS 1.5(6), but majority of foreign scene was still focused on those 2 games rather than BW. You didn't get replays, cause most of them were played in Korea and as we all know they don't really give a shit about foreigners, atleast when it comes to BW. Wc3 had plenty of replays available, as did CS(demos). What comes to "complaining", well someone has to set the bar somewhere. Dreamhack set it pretty high with their free stream quality and GOMTV's 360p is laughable in comparison. Your shitty post exemplifies what the OP is talking about beautifully. The juxtaposition with hp.Shell's optimistic post stating that, although he loves BW, he's optimistic about SC2 helps that, too. You think teamliquid just appeared out of thin fucking air? Do you really believe it's a given that the saturation of live, high quality game streams here was just something bound to fucking happen? Do you really look at WC3 now and say "Wow, this looks wayyyyy better than Brood War!"? Or was it really the "butt ugly" (fuck you) graphics that dissuaded foreign audiences, rather than any of countless other possible reasons for the weak foreign SC scene? FYI, Kermine, I'm pretty sure I hate you. Spare me the canned memetic "cool story bro" or whatever other shit post you come up with in response. It's clear you're the type to take everything as it is now for granted, and your bullshit attitude ensures that no one will take you seriously here. I assume you're also ugly. Thanks for providing a perfect example. I've been wanting to post for about an hour now, but couldn't come up with anything. A bit more on-topic...eh, I agree, more or less. I guess that may or may not be obvious by now. Personal attacks? Stay classy! SC:BW, aged incredibly badly. Hell, just look at C&C: Tiberian sun. It was released 1 year later than BW and it looked SO much better. I admit i never really played starcraft seriously, only ever doing some custom maps etc, but even back then i thought starcraft looked...crude. Also the game mechanics at the time were not really up to RTS standards. Original C&C had automated resource gathering mechanics in place in 1995! If you think TL.net is some god given gift to starcraft community, you are wrong. I'm sorry but for every game, there is BOUND to be some place where "everything" is gathered. If it wasn't TL, it'd be someplace else. I do however see where you are coming from. The attitude on TL seems to be that whenever it comes to anything starcraft, criticism is a taboo.
This is the kind of person who ruins the image of a whole community.
Way to go SC2 fanboy. Make the image of the SC2 community even worse, because you simply don't care about it apparently. Sure is sheep in here.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 15 2011 20:03 Kermine wrote:
Yeah Starcraft 2 is TOTALLY becoming too mainstream, i will have to move on to playing competetive dwarf fortress(WITH NO F***ING GRAPHIC MODS) cause the community there is so much more mature and original.
On a more serious note, this blog is full of crap. What do you mean we are not entitled to anything? Free streams? Do you realize that the companies providing us the streams are making money? BW scene never picked up in foreign countries cause 1) the game was too hard 2) it was butt ugly. Sure you had the likes of you who were "hc" enough to watch and play starcraft instead of Warcraft 3 or CS 1.5(6), but majority of foreign scene was still focused on those 2 games rather than BW. You didn't get replays, cause most of them were played in Korea and as we all know they don't really give a shit about foreigners, atleast when it comes to BW. Wc3 had plenty of replays available, as did CS(demos). What comes to "complaining", well someone has to set the bar somewhere. Dreamhack set it pretty high with their free stream quality and GOMTV's 360p is laughable in comparison.
Kermine, I'm not even going to be polite with you. I actually think this whole dumpster of a post deserves a warning. Gross. You really don't know what you have, paired with a large lack of appreciation. Your so ignorant towards the past and how what you see everyday is a product of gaming evolution.
But back on topic from OP. I as well am fortunate to live through the early days of BW up until now. Witnessing the many era's of the game: the original bnet ladder system when it was actually meaningful, the budding korean community, and then a few years down the line WGT and it's revolutionary (at the time) half-automated website reporting function. Soon after came PGT and it's automated game creation bot done through whispering and then ICCup and it's anti-hack launcher.
Not to mention the programs like BWchart, Penguinplug, etc. Hell, when that patch came introducing everyone to the replay function, it's quite an understatement to say that the community was flabbergasted. All this evolving from a game where we considered nothing to be enough. That is what SCII spawns from, and it's sad to see the new kids on the block not realize where their "subpar laughable 360p live broadcast with commentary" stream came from.
Thank you Kermine for fitting that stereotype perfectly. You truly are the new age of immaturity. SC2 is young and so are you. Did you ever wonder why so many "BW elitists" share this same opinion, despite many not knowing eachother? Did we band together to form a cult because we are butthurt about a new game taking over? All of it: no, we all love SCII (and for us, BW as well). But you have to realize where some of the older members of the community come from, and as such, you don't understand (partially because of a narrow-mind, the other half; lack of experience). Great post OP.
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I just don't understand how you can't realize that:
- The BW scene is much older,
- BW players are much older than SC2 players,
- BW is a phenomenon of the past and is thus a closed elite that will die eventually (just like SC2 in some time).
- Our parents are a different generation that has seen the birth and spread of personal computers (we will NOT be in the same situation as our generation is bound to that technology). We will all eventually become oldfags but we won't have the huge difficulties our parents have understanding a small piece of what's going on,
- Everyone bitches about everything all the time, whether it's football, soccer, kitchens, milk, paper, trees, wars or pretty much anything,
- SC is not OMGARELIGION and not having a sacred respect for it will not seem shocking to the average individual.
To me you just sound like an angry fanboy who didn't have much substance to write about in the first place.
People are not immature, people are people. As a French comedian once said, don't take people for fools, but don't forget that they are. However, stating that "people are immature" is forgetting that you're part of that too. Because, well, you've just written a wall of text over what I consider pure, useless, unimportant drama, displaying little self-control and hinsight yourself.
Edit: also lol at college kids feeling old.
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Im just really fed up of all the Herp-Derp, cool story bro, trolling, umadbro bullshit that everyone keeps throwing around. It's so hard to have a reasonable discussion anymore!
Grow the hell up already. Our future is going to shit, and I'm not even talking about the SC2 Community, I'm talking about life in general. Dunno about what it's like in other countries, but I've noticed that over the years the new generation is getting worse and worse. It's scary to think that these people will be responsible with taking care of us when we're elderly lol
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On December 16 2011 00:05 AndyGB4 wrote:
Im just really fed up of all the Herp-Derp, cool story bro, trolling, umadbro bullshit that everyone keeps throwing around. It's so hard to have a reasonable discussion anymore!
Grow the hell up already. Our future is going to shit, and I'm not even talking about the SC2 Community, I'm talking about life in general. Dunno about what it's like in other countries, but I've noticed that over the years the new generation is getting worse and worse. It's scary to think that these people will be responsible with taking care of us when we're elderly lol
My god how can you not realize that this is the result of growing up and that the next generation is NOT exceptionally bad. Or maybe we're so special that we're going to give birth to a generation of doom?
I mean how can you think that it is more logical and acceptable to think that this is an exception in milleniums of human history than to think we are simply getting older?
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On December 15 2011 23:47 Kukaracha wrote:
I just don't understand how you can't realize that:
- The BW scene is much older,
- BW players are much older than SC2 players,
- BW is a phenomenon of the past and is thus a closed elite that will die eventually (just like SC2 in some time).
- Our parents are a different generation that has seen the birth and spread of personal computers (we will NOT be in the same situation as our generation is bound to that technology). We will all eventually become oldfags but we won't have the huge difficulties our parents have understanding a small piece of what's going on,
- Everyone bitches about everything all the time, whether it's football, soccer, kitchens, milk, paper, trees, wars or pretty much anything,
- SC is not OMGARELIGION and not having a sacred respect for it will not seem shocking to the average individual.
To me you just sound like an angry fanboy who didn't have much substance to write about in the first place.
People are not immature, people are people. As a French comedian once said, don't take people for fools, but don't forget that they are. However, stating that "people are immature" is forgetting that you're part of that too. Because, well, you've just written a wall of text over what I consider pure, useless, unimportant drama, displaying little self-control and hinsight yourself.
Edit: also lol at college kids feeling old.
BW never quite existed outside Korea and is still very well alive over there like it always was. Now chances are unless sc2 is picked up by OGN it won't grow much beyond what it is today, wich is quite sad.
I really don't see the massive western lans becoming anything but bigger and bigger nerd magnets.
Most of people in Korea that enjoyed Starcraft (but hardcore fans) weren't nerds but common folks.
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On December 16 2011 00:25 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 00:05 AndyGB4 wrote:
Im just really fed up of all the Herp-Derp, cool story bro, trolling, umadbro bullshit that everyone keeps throwing around. It's so hard to have a reasonable discussion anymore!
Grow the hell up already. Our future is going to shit, and I'm not even talking about the SC2 Community, I'm talking about life in general. Dunno about what it's like in other countries, but I've noticed that over the years the new generation is getting worse and worse. It's scary to think that these people will be responsible with taking care of us when we're elderly lol My god how can you not realize that this is the result of growing up and that the next generation is NOT exceptionally bad. Or maybe we're so special that we're going to give birth to a generation of doom? I mean how can you think that it is more logical and acceptable to think that this is an exception in milleniums of human history than to think we are simply getting older?
Dude my wife's a teacher, trust me, the new generations are REALLY bad.
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I was only refering to the international scene, true. However, even BW in Korea will die eventually. Computer games belong to a very precise time and have a very short life span in comparison to sports who have been around for decades or centuries - with changing rules of course, but under the same form.
Edit: so your new wife, as a teacher, is an exception to us all, and her clinging to the past and fearing the future is a completely rational analysis of how things are?
Or maybe it is just that things change, and change faster and faster as communications in the world are accelerated?
I don't know but one of the above propositions just sounds much more reasonable.
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I don't see the point of this. Have you read posts from before sc2 came out? The community was just as immature. ESPORTS as a whole has changed A LOT and grown A LOT and obviously a lot of new people will come. And what naniwa did was not match fixing.
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On December 16 2011 00:43 Kukaracha wrote:
I was only refering to the international scene, true. However, even BW in Korea will die eventually. Computer games belong to a very precise time and have a very short life span in comparison to sports who have been around for decades or centuries - with changing rules of course, but under the same form.
Edit: so your new wife, as a teacher, is an exception to us all, and her clinging to the past and fearing the future is a completely rational analysis of how things are?
Or maybe it is just that things change, and change faster and faster as communications in the world are accelerated?
I don't know but one of the above propositions just sounds much more reasonable.
i don't know how old you are - im 30 - lol she aint clinging to any past man, we're just about as immature as it gets.
the thing, you can't understand unless you actually go to any highschool class nowaday and see for yourself, it's really insane.
i'm not a fan of "respect" as a whole, but dude, things are on a whole different league than a mere 15 years ago.
kids go all day saying stuff like "shut the fuck up" to teachers, they use their cellphones inside the class... and that's not even the bad stuff, that's like, the "normal" attitude.
compared to 15 years ago, most of classes are like, 1 year backward programm wise - a 14 years old student in highschool today is about the level of a 12 years old 15 years ago.
today standard is beeing a complete retard - it was already in action within my generation, but today, TV / Massmedias, fully achieved their goal of dumbing down the whole population.
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You're talking about a specific experience while not knowing how kids behave in other societies/countries/regions, and not knowing how kids behaved in the past.
All that is happening is that a rigid and timeless structure (republican school, in the French sense) is applied to a volatile and changing factor (people). The former will eventually always become irrelevant, because the latter is always evolving in an unpredictable way.
Many feel as if the population was dumber than they were before, but this is what happens:
- Our young self goes through school, experiences a certain setting,
- We grow up and develop a critical way of thinking,
- We look back at things and overestimate people and ideas (the human brain has a tendency to make up memories, but that's another topic)
- We look at the present with new, cynical, analytic adult eyes and realize how shitty many things are,
- Then blame it on the world, and not on our vision, even though it is more likely that it is our vision that changed, because the world shitfting to a new era is not something that happens everyday.
Add to this the illusion that we KNOW the WORLD. Mass media didn't leave us untouched. How can we say "people here do this, kids there do that" and qualify the unversal situation as bad without even defining who exactly are "the people" and where exactly is "here". I will say "people in Europe" all the time even though I've only visited briefly towns in Germany, England and Spain. I've probably seen 0,0001% of the people that live in the geographical area of Europe and yet I assume I know the way Europeans in general think!
People becoming dumber, the past being better, all of those are illusions fed by logical fallacies and personal frustrations.
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On December 16 2011 02:04 Kukaracha wrote:You're talking about a specific experience while not knowing how kids behave in other societies/countries/regions, and not knowing how kids behaved in the past. All that is happening is that a rigid and timeless structure (republican school, in the French sense) is applied to a volatile and changing factor (people). The former will eventually always become irrelevant, because the latter is always evolving in an unpredictable way. Many feel as if the population was dumber than they were before, but this is what happens: - Our young self goes through school, experiences a certain setting,
- We grow up and develop a critical way of thinking,
- We look back at things and overestimate people and ideas (the human brain has a tendency to make up memories, but that's another topic)
- We look at the present with new, cynical, analytic adult eyes and realize how shitty many things are,
- Then blame it on the world, and not on our vision, even though it is more likely that it is our vision that changed, because the world shitfting to a new era is not something that happens everyday.
Add to this the illusion that we KNOW the WORLD. Mass media didn't leave us untouched. How can we say "people here do this, kids there do that" and qualify the unversal situation as bad without even defining who exactly are "the people" and where exactly is "here". I will say "people in Europe" all the time even though I've only visited briefly towns in Germany, England and Spain. I've probably seen 0,0001% of the people that live in the geographical area of Europe and yet I assume I know the way Europeans in general think! People becoming dumber, the past being better, all of those are illusions fed by logical fallacies and personal frustrations.
you're reading way too much in what i type man
yeah i was merely talking about today's first hand experience in french school
but your sophistic views on the way we percieve things are just as much rigid, irrealistic and old fashionned as what you think has to be critisized in my point of view.
im not cynical at all and i didn't really qualify anything but most of western society
i'm pretty sure US highschool classes look as retarded as french ones tbh
edit : oh lol i reread your post what you said is actually totally retarded haha
go get some more experience
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Um... yes. Strong arguments indeed.
On a side, note, "western society" does not mean much and probably encompasses more than a billion people, which is roughly 1/5th of world population. One does not "know" the "western society" after watching a few hours of TV.
But enough with this off-topic debate, we can continue by PM if you sincerely wish to speak about the matter.
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On December 16 2011 02:40 Kukaracha wrote:
Um... yes. Strong arguments indeed.
On a side, note, "western society" does not mean much and probably encompasses more than a billion people, which is roughly 1/5th of world population. One does not "know" the "western society" after watching a few hours of TV.
But enough with this off-topic debate, we can continue by PM if you sincerely wish to speak about the matter.
i dont watch tv wtf are you talking about i didnt own one in a decade
i travelled around quite a bit
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Yep sense of entitlement pretty bad. Pointing it out is about as useful as throwing sand into the wind though. I agree with you on most points.
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How the f*** did this blog get derailed so hard?
On topic: I agree that nowadays eSports fans take too many things for granted. Heck, even players take things for granted - oh, thanks for the invite to play in one of the most prestigious tournaments in the world but since I'm tired from playing 3 games, I'm just going to throw the last one in the worst possible way possible. As a short note, I believe what Naniwa should have done is formally forfeit citing reasons such as physical and mental fatigue, and I also believe he should have been given a warning instead of revocation, but that's just me.
What we observed with the recent incident is the feverish defence by the nationals. There is no doubt that the international community involvement increased ever since the release of SC2. You can't leave out nationalism as a major factor in these arguments. For that I somewhat sympathize with the 'Naniwa defenders.' When the fever passes and the heat dies down, I'm sure many of them will look back and honestly say, "boy that was stupid."
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On December 16 2011 00:55 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 00:43 Kukaracha wrote:
I was only refering to the international scene, true. However, even BW in Korea will die eventually. Computer games belong to a very precise time and have a very short life span in comparison to sports who have been around for decades or centuries - with changing rules of course, but under the same form.
Edit: so your new wife, as a teacher, is an exception to us all, and her clinging to the past and fearing the future is a completely rational analysis of how things are?
Or maybe it is just that things change, and change faster and faster as communications in the world are accelerated?
I don't know but one of the above propositions just sounds much more reasonable. i don't know how old you are - im 30 - lol she aint clinging to any past man, we're just about as immature as it gets. the thing, you can't understand unless you actually go to any highschool class nowaday and see for yourself, it's really insane. i'm not a fan of "respect" as a whole, but dude, things are on a whole different league than a mere 15 years ago. kids go all day saying stuff like "shut the fuck up" to teachers, they use their cellphones inside the class... and that's not even the bad stuff, that's like, the "normal" attitude. compared to 15 years ago, most of classes are like, 1 year backward programm wise - a 14 years old student in highschool today is about the level of a 12 years old 15 years ago. today standard is beeing a complete retard - it was already in action within my generation, but today, TV / Massmedias, fully achieved their goal of dumbing down the whole population.
So I'm an 11th grader. Where the actual fuck have you heard a student tell a teacher to shut the fuck up. I can not even contemplate the consequences.
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"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. "
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OP is one of the few people who gets it. Sadly the forums are overpopulated with the generation of entitlement you are referring to.
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This blog is about chiding those who have a sense of entitlement and express it via the internet on these forums. People expect a certain aspect of the Starcraft universe to be up to their expectations, their expectations are not meant and then they complain about it via the team liquid forums.
Then, the original poster expects a certain aspect of the Starcraft universe to be up to his or her expectations, his/her expectations are not meant, and he complains about it via the team liquid forums.
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On December 16 2011 05:15 Smurphy wrote:
This blog is about chiding those who have a sense of entitlement and express it via the internet on these forums. People expect a certain aspect of the Starcraft universe to be up to their expectations, their expectations are not meant and then they complain about it via the team liquid forums.
Then, the original poster expects a certain aspect of the Starcraft universe to be up to his or her expectations, his/her expectations are not meant, and he complains about it via the team liquid forums.
I knew this post was coming, and I was wondering how I would respond to it when the time came.
The honest truth is that I literally only ask for respect within the community. It's one thing to have a Rekrul-esque big ego, but it's a completely different thing to complain constantly about things you can't control and should be thankful for.
About the Stork/Savior incidents in BW, I was more disappointed then than I am now, for the same reasons discussed in my original post. Especially, for me, the Savior scandal was mind-blowing. Savior was my favorite professional gamer of all time, but obviously I was ashamed to learn what he had done in the time after his reign as Bonjwa. It's that sort of thing that can seriously ruin the legacy of a game, and it's too early in SC2's life to have it happening through "professionals" throwing games. I choose to remember Savior for his legendary gameplay, and forgive, forget, and accept his lifetime ban from any other professional gaming.
In my eyes, the people saying that GOM was at fault for arranging the "meaningless" game are completely brainless. Here's a world-class organization providing an extra game between two VERY good players, and people are saying that it's shouldn't have been played? How spoiled can you be? How can people not see that having that extra game was a benefit to them? The fact that Naniwa pitched the game aside, it could have turned out to be a very entertaining game (especially knowing Nestea was playing). Naniwa acted like a child who didn't get his ice cream after dinner. Yesterday, I tweeted GOM asking them to ban Naniwa from further participation with any of their programs simply out of disgust. Obviously that's a very primitive form of contact and I didn't expect them to take it very seriously, but that sort of thing from a large amount of people would be heard. Unfortunately, the only "overwhelming" response has been people on GOMTV.net complaining about how Naniwa should be allowed to participate in Code S. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be ashamed of GOM if they simply allowed him to continue playing after he blatantly disrespected not only their company and its scheduling, but the fans who are paying to watch the games on a regular basis and keep the eSports scene alive.
I allowed myself to stray pretty far from my original topic, but it's all related. To me, fans should be thankful for the great coverage of the scene that is now available to them (anyone else remember hearing about games via text/screenshot battle reports?). Nothing is owed to you by any of the companies; they do what they do to spread the word of the greatness of the game (and of course, make money, but that's impossible without generating some sort of following). I don't see how anyone expects SC2 to grow to beyond what it is now with stupid shit like throwing games and complaining about free stream quality going on. Nobody outside the scene is going to take us seriously if those within the community don't show the remotest signs of integrity. This goes beyond the reaches of Starcraft; it's a life lesson.
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EPT
