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Given the recent lambasting by some, in regards to the affiliations with ESFI’s staff amongst the eSports landscape, I thought it’d be a good time to throw another piece in my blog on the topic.
Note: You may all refer to my initial blog if you’re interested in my personal relevance to the discussion
Everyone in life has to answer to someone or something. Such an ambiguous statement is kind of a non-starter, but the aspect of providing content or a service in general illustrates this point as well as any other example in life; there’s also the issue of basic common sense that everyone likely understands with the following:
There are some that argue that eSports is still in its infancy, and thus our “media” sites are still unpolished, less than professional and subject to these issues. The truth of the matter is that eSports and the media is not in its infancy, but the majority of those with experience and that pioneered more professional content and standards are no longer in the industry; and those that are still around have fairly prominent positions in the community.
eSports never really provided stable and sustainable income for those that were around in the past, and those experienced people had to move on that couldn’t find a niche. This leaves incumbent websites and services with a rotating stock of young, inexperienced staff that have to learn the ropes and re-establish their lines of communication with many teams, organizations and players that have been around for a long time.
With a newcomer attached to providing content, or maybe looking for something exclusive to offer, they’re going to be far more liberal, far more favorable to whatever their cause or topic is; they want to leave a good impression and want that relationship with the party to grow in the future, and because most people instinctively know they won’t get their foot in the door with outright scandal as easily anymore.
Where in the past, you might have gotten away with approaching a player and baiting a few scathing statements from them, we’re a lot further along in our professional development, where media now has to go through team or organizational management to get approval, or you’re dealing with an experienced professional player that’s been around the block and knows the value of PR and what is expected of them from their own management.
This realization puts more things into perspective, but does it make it okay? ESFI does have a lot of newer, younger, and inexperienced members in their stable, but they also have their upper members that have been around awhile, and already have connections and relationships established. Severing those to cover stories as just an eSports media website, or write fluffy editorials isn’t worth it to them as a website. The issue comes with how they use this leverage, and I think people might be getting a little sidetracked at the entire issue.
Media in and of itself will never be without bias. Explaining more behind why would be exhaustive and truthfully, probably is understood by most people anyways. Where this entire escapade becomes an issue is when ESFI becomes just a site kowtowing to those they have connections with. If they’re actively promoting features, articles, and other content with those they’re closer with, and avoiding other notable stories and issues, then there will be problems.
This is highlighted with that ridiculous anonymous source that was seen in the story of Johan 'Naniwa' Lucchesi's move from Complexity to Quantic; people aren’t stupid, and they are likely to see the connection to a team, that probabilistically is from Complexity. Whether or not it is, doesn’t disregard the perception that it’s a personal jab at Lucchesi, from someone that’s bitter over something.
Given the other content that ESFI provides, and their general good-standing in the communities they serve, this is likely to go unpunished at this point and they’ll be given a mulligan. There will be a fine line however, because of the nature of eSports' viewers/fans. Now that this issue has come to light, and more people have been made aware, watch for more scrunity to follow other content that ESFI produces. If something like this happens again, ESFI is slowly going to start losing credibility and will find itself in a tight spot.
 
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I removed one star from your rating for the use of the word "probabilistically" just so you know.
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Canada5999 Posts
we must remind ourselves that at this very moment, there are minerals being mined. minerals being mined, minerals being mined.
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Two major points that I wanted to make.
1) E-sports journalism will be by its nature, not as professional as regular journalism, simply because most of the people who are engaged in it, do it out of their passion and love for e-sports and to get some exposure. These are typically your 18-25 year olds who are in college/fresh out of school and doing it as a side hobby while actually having a normal day job. Singling out ESFI world is not quiet the solution, especially considering that most other e-sports news sites are plagued by similar issues.
2) I had the opportunity to discuss this subject with a really really high placed person with a very popular proteam that has been around for ages, and he had exactly this to say about NaNiwa (I copy pasted his exact words)
"Naniwa is seriously unstable, the only difference from WC3 and SC2 is now he knows to be friends with the pro players. He's bipolar for sure, even the dignitas guys couldn't handle him and Odee is one of the best player managers I've seen in my entire career."
Now, I am definitely not going to name that person who made this comment because then he will be mighty pissed at me for making it public, but just so you know, this sentiment is not isolated. NaNiwa has had serious troubles for a long time (beginning from his wc3 days). Perhaps ESFI's way of bringing out the news was not exactly the best way, but I think its not completely without its merits.
My $0.02.
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There are some that argue that eSports is still in its infancy, and thus our “media” sites are still unpolished, less than professional and subject to these issues. The truth of the matter is that eSports and the media is not in its infancy, but the majority of those with experience and that pioneered more professional content and standards are no longer in the industry; and those that are still around have fairly prominent positions in the community.
Media, marketing, and public exposure are important aspects of building SC2 popularity.
Sadly SC2 and blizzard does not seem very organized about it.
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On December 12 2011 11:24 Piledriver wrote:
Two major points that I wanted to make.
1) E-sports journalism will be by its nature, not as professional as regular journalism, simply because most of the people who are engaged in it, do it out of their passion and love for e-sports and to get some exposure. These are typically your 18-25 year olds who are in college/fresh out of school and doing it as a side hobby while actually having a normal day job. Singling out ESFI world is not quiet the solution, especially considering that most other e-sports news sites are plagued by similar issues.
2) I had the opportunity to discuss this subject with a really really high placed person with a very popular proteam that has been around for ages, and he had exactly this to say about NaNiwa (I copy pasted his exact words)
"Naniwa is seriously unstable, the only difference from WC3 and SC2 is now he knows to be friends with the pro players. He's bipolar for sure, even the dignitas guys couldn't handle him and Odee is one of the best player managers I've seen in my entire career."
Now, I am definitely not going to name that person who made this comment because then he will be mighty pissed at me for making it public, but just so you know, this sentiment is not isolated. NaNiwa has had serious troubles for a long time (beginning from his wc3 days). Perhaps ESFI's way of bringing out the news was not exactly the best way, but I think its not completely without its merits.
My $0.02.
So you just accused the guy of having mental problems, diagnosed mental problems but you dont want to source it. In the same post you undercut journalism in esports because its not professional "by its nature" so it doesn't have the same credence.
Are you bipolar sir? Do you realize how one paragraph relates to the other?
I don't think so.
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On December 12 2011 11:08 Synwave wrote:
I removed one star from your rating for the use of the word "probabilistically" just so you know.
Aha, alright.
On December 12 2011 11:24 Piledriver wrote:
1) E-sports journalism will be by its nature, not as professional as regular journalism, simply because most of the people who are engaged in it, do it out of their passion and love for e-sports and to get some exposure. These are typically your 18-25 year olds who are in college/fresh out of school and doing it as a side hobby while actually having a normal day job. Singling out ESFI world is not quiet the solution, especially considering that most other e-sports news sites are plagued by similar issues.
Absolutely. Mentioning ESFI specifically was more so done because of the recent issue, not because they deserve it more than other outlets. (I even used to be part of ESFI).
On December 12 2011 11:24 Piledriver wrote:
Now, I am definitely not going to name that person who made this comment because then he will be mighty pissed at me for making it public, but just so you know, this sentiment is not isolated. NaNiwa has had serious troubles for a long time (beginning from his wc3 days). Perhaps ESFI's way of bringing out the news was not exactly the best way, but I think its not completely without its merits.
I would never say that information shouldn't come out, merited or not. Conveying that quote along with who actually said it is perfectly fine, because it's sourced and accountable. However, allowing what can be construed as a negative opinion (whether he actually has a medical disorder is a non-issue at this point) in what's supposed to be a news piece is especially damaging and amateurish; and as Synwave points out, it's also keeping the status quo.
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On December 12 2011 11:39 Synwave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 11:24 Piledriver wrote:
Two major points that I wanted to make.
1) E-sports journalism will be by its nature, not as professional as regular journalism, simply because most of the people who are engaged in it, do it out of their passion and love for e-sports and to get some exposure. These are typically your 18-25 year olds who are in college/fresh out of school and doing it as a side hobby while actually having a normal day job. Singling out ESFI world is not quiet the solution, especially considering that most other e-sports news sites are plagued by similar issues.
2) I had the opportunity to discuss this subject with a really really high placed person with a very popular proteam that has been around for ages, and he had exactly this to say about NaNiwa (I copy pasted his exact words)
"Naniwa is seriously unstable, the only difference from WC3 and SC2 is now he knows to be friends with the pro players. He's bipolar for sure, even the dignitas guys couldn't handle him and Odee is one of the best player managers I've seen in my entire career."
Now, I am definitely not going to name that person who made this comment because then he will be mighty pissed at me for making it public, but just so you know, this sentiment is not isolated. NaNiwa has had serious troubles for a long time (beginning from his wc3 days). Perhaps ESFI's way of bringing out the news was not exactly the best way, but I think its not completely without its merits.
My $0.02. So you just accused the guy of having mental problems, diagnosed mental problems but you dont want to source it. In the same post you undercut journalism in esports because its not professional "by its nature" so it doesn't have the same credence. Are you bipolar sir? Do you realize how one paragraph relates to the other? I don't think so.
I think you are taking offense just for the sake of taking offense here, and seem to be slightly lacking in comprehension. Let me paraphrase my post for the sake of your benefit.
- The first point relates to e-sports journalism in general, and why there is no reason to simply pick out and criticize ESFI when the entire spectrum of e-sports journalism is on the same plane.
- The second point presents a viewpoint from another person who I know of, just to illustrate there is a common sentiment running across people in e-sports circle (not the community, but the actual managers and owners). Note that this just a post on a personal blog and is not a "Journalistic article" by any means, so I don't understand why you are attacking me in the first place for having double standards. Stop getting your panties in a bunch.
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On December 12 2011 12:02 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2011 11:39 Synwave wrote:On December 12 2011 11:24 Piledriver wrote:
Two major points that I wanted to make.
1) E-sports journalism will be by its nature, not as professional as regular journalism, simply because most of the people who are engaged in it, do it out of their passion and love for e-sports and to get some exposure. These are typically your 18-25 year olds who are in college/fresh out of school and doing it as a side hobby while actually having a normal day job. Singling out ESFI world is not quiet the solution, especially considering that most other e-sports news sites are plagued by similar issues.
2) I had the opportunity to discuss this subject with a really really high placed person with a very popular proteam that has been around for ages, and he had exactly this to say about NaNiwa (I copy pasted his exact words)
"Naniwa is seriously unstable, the only difference from WC3 and SC2 is now he knows to be friends with the pro players. He's bipolar for sure, even the dignitas guys couldn't handle him and Odee is one of the best player managers I've seen in my entire career."
Now, I am definitely not going to name that person who made this comment because then he will be mighty pissed at me for making it public, but just so you know, this sentiment is not isolated. NaNiwa has had serious troubles for a long time (beginning from his wc3 days). Perhaps ESFI's way of bringing out the news was not exactly the best way, but I think its not completely without its merits.
My $0.02. So you just accused the guy of having mental problems, diagnosed mental problems but you dont want to source it. In the same post you undercut journalism in esports because its not professional "by its nature" so it doesn't have the same credence. Are you bipolar sir? Do you realize how one paragraph relates to the other? I don't think so. I think you are taking offense just for the sake of taking offense here, and seem to be slightly lacking in comprehension. Let me paraphrase my post for the sake of your benefit. - The first point relates to e-sports journalism in general, and why there is no reason to simply pick out and criticize ESFI when the entire spectrum of e-sports journalism is on the same plane. - The second point presents a viewpoint from another person who I know of, just to illustrate there is a common sentiment running across people in e-sports circle (not the community, but the actual managers and owners). Note that this just a post on a personal blog and is not a "Journalistic article" by any means, so I don't understand why you are attacking me in the first place for having double standards. Stop getting your panties in a bunch.
Because of the exact points your trying to make.
You really dont see the comparative?
You have "insider info" which your posting in the same post you rip on esports journalists in.
While dogging a player, and trying to seem like your in the know.
It's all ego and badly done at that, your reply shows the color even better.
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wow.. Piledriver just drove it home (pun intended). those that are trashing on his post in this thread are completely missing his point.
Also.. Syn.. I don't think Piledriver has an ego here, I think he was making the point that there are many others that have the same feelings about 'said person' that the person quoted in the ESFI article does.. and thus it's not important to name the source of it. Granted.. many of us would assume it was a CoL member ..but that may not be the case. Besides.. as stupid and dangerous as it can be in some cases.. journalist are not required to reveal their sources.
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On December 12 2011 14:10 csn_JohnClark wrote:
wow.. Piledriver just drove it home (pun intended). those that are trashing on his post in this thread are completely missing his point.
Also.. Syn.. I don't think Piledriver has an ego here, I think he was making the point that there are many others that have the same feelings about 'said person' that the person quoted in the ESFI article does.. and thus it's not important to name the source of it. Granted.. many of us would assume it was a CoL member ..but that may not be the case. Besides.. as stupid and dangerous as it can be in some cases.. journalist are not required to reveal their sources.
He isnt a journalist, he is ripping on them and using anecdotal evidence to prove his point. Im using anecdotal extremely broadly here, heresay is probably the better term.
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so if he had labeled himself as a journalist.. would it have made it more acceptable to you?
having been in esports for more then 10 years, I have heard plenty of things on a first hand basis.. and could list a few of those things here.. even some juicy stuff from MLG Columbus that would not look good for a few people. Does it make me less qualified to share that information because my label is something other then journalist?
I am actually curious in your answer, I know it sounds like I am being a dick.. not trying to be sir. I really am curious how you see what he is saying as less qualified.
I also did not see his post as ripping on journalist actually. I saw it as pointing out why it may be best that we are not so hard on ESFI. I could have read it wrong though and will reread it.
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On December 12 2011 14:31 csn_JohnClark wrote:
so if he had labeled himself as a journalist.. would it have made it more acceptable to you?
having been in esports for more then 10 years, I have heard plenty of things on a first hand basis.. and could list a few of those things here.. even some juicy stuff from MLG Columbus that would not look good for a few people. Does it make me less qualified to share that information because my label is something other then journalist?
I am actually curious in your answer, I know it sounds like I am being a dick.. not trying to be sir. I really am curious how you see what he is saying as less qualified.
I also did not see his post as ripping on journalist actually. I saw it as pointing out why it may be best that we are not so hard on ESFI. I could have read it wrong though and will reread it.
I wasn't ripping on journalists/ESFI. On the contrary I was defending them and made an observation about e-sports sites in general.
Synwave is either misunderstanding, or deliberately choosing to misinterpret my posts even after I clarify them. Its like I said "A" and he says "nono you meant B.". He clearly didn't read the first post, and after I clarified, he is just trying to save his face by repeating the same shit over and over. I'm done arguing with him, especially because he doesn't seem to understand the gist or thrust of my post.
For the last time, I am not ripping on ESFI/e-sports sites (or even NaNiwa for that matter). The quote about NaNiwa was just an example to illustrate that some other person in the e-sports management circle has a similar viewpoint as the quote in the ESFI article, Whether I believe it or not is a different issue, I just wanted to point out that ESFI did not blindly print CoL's feelings, and there are similar sentiments floating out there.
P.S: The person who I quoted is not affiliated to Quantic/CoL/Dignitas. And you can choose to believe or disbelieve my quote, it makes no difference to me as I don't gain anything either way...
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I think people were looking too hard at the issue of using ESFI in my example; and like I said, I used to work with them and they are pretty quality and devoted guys.
ESFI was only mentioned because of the recent kerfuffle involving them. I could have brought out a lot more examples from many an eSports site, league or team, and discussed the same thing. However, it would be less applicable to those reading TL because they may not even know the other parties involved.
Days of specialization and concentration in our future will eventually come. We're slowly starting to see separation, and individuals carving out their niches, but it's going to take some time. Until then, issues like this will always lurk around the perimeter of our hobby and people can always complain of bias, whether justified or not.
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EPT
