|
This entry is not original. It's a copy from a different source (I wrote it, though.)
Well, today started as a quite ordinary day of Starcraft action. I watched a couple of the AHGL series which - as always - is my motivation to start playing myself. So I grabbed my morning coffee and hit the Find Match button. I played like I was in bronze and got really pissed, macro slipped, I constantly mismicroed, kept scouting close position on Shakuras and so on. I didn't even get cheesed a single game and still raged because I played so incredibly badly. Time passed and after some more games I began to stabilize. Then there was this PvP on Shakuras. I 3gate expo'ed, scouted well, macroed really good (for my league) managed to get a 30 worker lead, got a bigger army, reasonably quick third, was about to drop my fourth, scouted his army and decided to attack. Just about five seconds afterwards I realized that this might have been the worst decision ever. I had a great concave but my army was cut in half (FF op :>) and he crushed it. It wasn't even close. That was the point when I lost 4 v 2 bases. On watching the replay I couldn't believe it. 40 supply ahead, 20 workers ahead, tech ahead and I somehow lost the game due to one stupid decision. But honestly: Loosing a ladder game is really not that big of a deal.
I bet everyone has had such a moment in his life of Starcraft. But the crucial point is: Even though the decision was really stupid, it normally helps you a lot. Not just in Starcraft, but in your every-day life. I think it's one of the coolest things which people who are not playing RTS games do not understand. Gaming really helps you out in life. Just take a look my example: Starcraft is a game where you have to make tons of decisions really really fast. By that you lose the fear of making decisions outside of Starcraft as well. "Wtf? Fear of decisions?" Yes Sir, everyone has it. We humans tend to avoid decisions whereever possible, we try to leave as many options open for as long as possible. Through Starcraft you learn making quick decisions carries a slight risk but also offers a high reward.
The most simple real life example: Buying festival/concert tickets. In Germany they are cheapest if you buy them very early, like 6-7 months before. Of course you cannot be sure whether you have time for a concert in half a year, thus you stay in "Don't-know-whether-to-buy"-mode for as long as possible. Though what you should do is first ask yourself the question "What's the worst that could happen?" In my example that would be "losing 100 USD cause I cannot go". BUT with stating that you again try to avoid decisions in the future, i.e. when to sell the ticket because you probably cannot go. So the second question should always be: "Is it very probable that the worst thing might happen if I make that decision?"
And yes I think Starcraft (as an example for a very strategic RTS game) helps to answer those questions correctly taking away the decison-fear. I know my point is not very original but I am so excited about real life applications of learning through RTS games that I'd like to point it out again. Feel free to comment. Please consider that this is my first entry in the english language, though. Thanks
Cyberonic
 
|
I don't understand how you can lose a late game PvP due to forcefields? Wtf were your collossi/archons doing??
|
Archons weren't massive yet. And my colossi chilled in the back  . As I said the engagement was pretty bad.
|
I don't think I agree that making lots of quick decisions in an rts translates to making fast decisions in life. I've really never felt this way.
|
that truly was the worst decision
|
On November 08 2011 21:52 Subversive wrote:
I don't think I agree that making lots of quick decisions in an rts translates to making fast decisions in life. I've really never felt this way.
agree, fast decision depends on how familiar you are with what you are doing because fast decision making is not a skill, it's how fast you do something and it soley depend on practice.
|
Sometimes starcraft is all about decisions. You need to pick the perfect time to strike. I feel bead for you though. Zergs everywhere always have this feeling.
|
On November 08 2011 22:13 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 21:52 Subversive wrote:
I don't think I agree that making lots of quick decisions in an rts translates to making fast decisions in life. I've really never felt this way. agree, fast decision depends on how familiar you are with what you are doing because fast decision making is not a skill, it's how fast you do something and it soley depend on practice.
You contradict yourself. If you can practice/learn something it has to be a skill (a skill is nothing but a learned capacity).
Usually human beings make complex decisions by listing and outhweighting pros and cons of the alternatives. This weightening-process is the part which troubles us the most. And I think with RTS games you learn to estimate the relevance of certain pros/cons and their likelihood much faster. So I think it helps in situations in which you have to make a complex decision really fast.
|
I remember watching Check got cheesed on a ladder game, zvz.
His opponent went for early pool, maybe 8 or 10 pool and just pushed out with all his lings and drones.
Check did a 14/14, so his pool was barely finishing around the time he saw it coming.
He just moved out with all his drones and lings to his opponent base.
His opponent on the other hand, was building a spine at his base
It completely shocked me that he did that, because not only was the map relatively large and his opponent was already almost arriving his base. But then it became clear.
He had more drones, less lings. He did the smartest choice there.
It ended up with him having 2 spines at his opponent base, but no creep to root. His opponent walked his own spine all the way from Check's base
The Check pretended that he was off positioned and the opponent bite the bait and moved up the ramp. Check then just moved all his drones and lings and target fired that opponent's spine (which would have arrived where the opponent's army is) and he won.
I think these decisions are the ones that show how flexible and confident you are. It's amazing how he acted just without any pauses and almost as if he has practised it everyday.
|
On November 09 2011 00:06 Cyberonic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2011 22:13 brachester wrote:On November 08 2011 21:52 Subversive wrote:
I don't think I agree that making lots of quick decisions in an rts translates to making fast decisions in life. I've really never felt this way. agree, fast decision depends on how familiar you are with what you are doing because fast decision making is not a skill, it's how fast you do something and it soley depend on practice. You contradict yourself. If you can practice/learn something it has to be a skill (a skill is nothing but a learned capacity). Usually human beings make complex decisions by listing and outhweighting pros and cons of the alternatives. This weightening-process is the part which troubles us the most. And I think with RTS games you learn to estimate the relevance of certain pros/cons and their likelihood much faster. So I think it helps in situations in which you have to make a complex decision really fast.
Keep believe that, you're going to be very succesfull in life
|
I make decisions with the assumption that life is a zero sum game, more to the left means less to the right etc. I don't know if it's Starcraft or smt else that inspire me though.
|
On November 09 2011 17:09 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 00:06 Cyberonic wrote:On November 08 2011 22:13 brachester wrote:On November 08 2011 21:52 Subversive wrote:
I don't think I agree that making lots of quick decisions in an rts translates to making fast decisions in life. I've really never felt this way. agree, fast decision depends on how familiar you are with what you are doing because fast decision making is not a skill, it's how fast you do something and it soley depend on practice. You contradict yourself. If you can practice/learn something it has to be a skill (a skill is nothing but a learned capacity). Usually human beings make complex decisions by listing and outhweighting pros and cons of the alternatives. This weightening-process is the part which troubles us the most. And I think with RTS games you learn to estimate the relevance of certain pros/cons and their likelihood much faster. So I think it helps in situations in which you have to make a complex decision really fast. Keep believe that, you're going to be very succesfull in life
Why do I think you're trolling? :/
|
|
|
On November 09 2011 23:28 Cyberonic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 17:09 brachester wrote:On November 09 2011 00:06 Cyberonic wrote:On November 08 2011 22:13 brachester wrote:On November 08 2011 21:52 Subversive wrote:
I don't think I agree that making lots of quick decisions in an rts translates to making fast decisions in life. I've really never felt this way. agree, fast decision depends on how familiar you are with what you are doing because fast decision making is not a skill, it's how fast you do something and it soley depend on practice. You contradict yourself. If you can practice/learn something it has to be a skill (a skill is nothing but a learned capacity). Usually human beings make complex decisions by listing and outhweighting pros and cons of the alternatives. This weightening-process is the part which troubles us the most. And I think with RTS games you learn to estimate the relevance of certain pros/cons and their likelihood much faster. So I think it helps in situations in which you have to make a complex decision really fast. Keep believe that, you're going to be very succesfull in life Why do I think you're trolling? :/
Nah, it is clear to me that ur have no idea how a brain works. Go do some research before you making up some crazy theory about about decision making.
|
On November 10 2011 16:58 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 23:28 Cyberonic wrote:On November 09 2011 17:09 brachester wrote:On November 09 2011 00:06 Cyberonic wrote:On November 08 2011 22:13 brachester wrote:On November 08 2011 21:52 Subversive wrote:
I don't think I agree that making lots of quick decisions in an rts translates to making fast decisions in life. I've really never felt this way. agree, fast decision depends on how familiar you are with what you are doing because fast decision making is not a skill, it's how fast you do something and it soley depend on practice. You contradict yourself. If you can practice/learn something it has to be a skill (a skill is nothing but a learned capacity). Usually human beings make complex decisions by listing and outhweighting pros and cons of the alternatives. This weightening-process is the part which troubles us the most. And I think with RTS games you learn to estimate the relevance of certain pros/cons and their likelihood much faster. So I think it helps in situations in which you have to make a complex decision really fast. Keep believe that, you're going to be very succesfull in life Why do I think you're trolling? :/ Nah, it is clear to me that ur have no idea how a brain works. Go do some research before you making up some crazy theory about about decision making.
I nearly finished my bachelor studies in Cognitive Science. So either you present some VALID arguments or you don't write such a crap.
|
In Starcraft you make decisions based on considerably less information than in life and you make this decision based on over-whelming amount of experience, and even sometimes public opinion which gives you an idea of what is the best thing to do.
Real life decisions will more often than not require a completely different level of thinking as they relate to more complicated things like character, relationships, etc.
The only possible thing that starcraft decision making could be translated to in real life is when you have to do some kind of approximation for an optimization, a gut call based on limited information, or to a lesser extent some kind of numerical approximation.
|
On November 11 2011 23:12 Kiarip wrote:
In Starcraft you make decisions based on considerably less information than in life and you make this decision based on over-whelming amount of experience, and even sometimes public opinion which gives you an idea of what is the best thing to do.
Real life decisions will more often than not require a completely different level of thinking as they relate to more complicated things like character, relationships, etc.
The only possible thing that starcraft decision making could be translated to in real life is when you have to do some kind of approximation for an optimization, a gut call based on limited information, or to a lesser extent some kind of numerical approximation.
Pretty much similar to what this guy said. You said something about weighting the pros/cons of each decision, that is true, HOWEVER, the speed at which you're processing the information are completely different in each area. Let's make an example, decision making in Math and decision making in socialising are completely two different things and you can't simply transfer "decision making skills" over to other area. You're maybe good at weighting pros and cons in math because ur practice it over and over again, hence ur familiar with the matters, hence ur know what is the best approach toward it. How does that can transfer to a completely different area, i don't know. Same with starcraft, i don't know how tech switch and all that crap can transfer well to real life situation. Seriously, i don't buy that Bachelor of Cognitive Science of yours, but since you said you're nearly finished, i don't think ur getting it at the end with these kinds of crazy theories without any stats to back it up.
|
your Country52796 Posts
Mine's like a boomerang.
Load up match, get PvZ, scout spire while going mass stalker, lose to 4 mutalisks
Load up match, get PvZ, scout spire, kill it and kill his nat and third, kill 4 armies, lose to 4 mutalisks despite having cannons everywhere.
Load up 5 matches, get PvPs and PvTs and maybe a PvZ and outmacro the opponents and win.
Load up a match, get PvZ, lose to mutalisks in the same exact way as the second game.
Bye ladder points 
Edit: I realize this sounds like a balance whine but I'm not accusing the mutalisks. I just have an inability to stop flying units from killing my workers (I have the same problem with pheonix/banshees but I never seem to face them).
|
On November 13 2011 02:40 brachester wrote:
i don't know how tech switch and all that crap can transfer well to real life situation. Seriously, i don't buy that Bachelor of Cognitive Science of yours, but since you said you're nearly finished, i don't think ur getting it at the end with these kinds of crazy theories without any stats to back it up.
Well, I never claimed those skills would be trasferrable 1:1. I would never title this blog a theory either, not even a well thought-out hypothesis is proclaimed anywhere. It's a frickin blog. It was just an idea and I'd find it really exciting if someone did a real study about it. Concerning my university studies: Of course I won't get my degree with writing a blog TT. I'm currently writing my thesis about how Intrinsic and extrinsic motivation have an influence on cognitive processes i.e attention.
You must admit one thing though: Although it seems to sound odd that decision making skills in Starcraft are able to improve your decision making skills in real life, the process underlying thos decision makings is exactly the same in both cases. The difference lies mostly in what to decide (content) and how many factors play a role (complexity). And I'd bet there are some examples of decisions to make in RL that have the same degree of complexity. The only question remaining is therefore: Why should content have such an influence on the process itself (thus rendering comparision completely ad absurdum)?
|
On November 14 2011 19:26 Cyberonic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2011 02:40 brachester wrote:
i don't know how tech switch and all that crap can transfer well to real life situation. Seriously, i don't buy that Bachelor of Cognitive Science of yours, but since you said you're nearly finished, i don't think ur getting it at the end with these kinds of crazy theories without any stats to back it up. Well, I never claimed those skills would be trasferrable 1:1. I would never title this blog a theory either, not even a well thought-out hypothesis is proclaimed anywhere. It's a frickin blog. It was just an idea and I'd find it really exciting if someone did a real study about it. Concerning my university studies: Of course I won't get my degree with writing a blog TT. I'm currently writing my thesis about how Intrinsic and extrinsic motivation have an influence on cognitive processes i.e attention. You must admit one thing though: Although it seems to sound odd that decision making skills in Starcraft are able to improve your decision making skills in real life, the process underlying thos decision makings is exactly the same in both cases. The difference lies mostly in what to decide (content) and how many factors play a role (complexity). And I'd bet there are some examples of decisions to make in RL that have the same degree of complexity. The only question remaining is therefore: Why should content have such an influence on the process itself (thus rendering comparision completely ad absurdum)?
I still disagree. All decision making in starcraft is of optimization/computational nature.
Decision making in starcraft will probably make you better at things like poker, or maybe if you're doing some kind of extremely fast/short term cost-benefit analysis, and the process for this is a very small subset of what a process for a real life decision would involve.
As a matter of fact most important decision making in life would do best to avoid short term cost-benefit analysis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
