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On October 30 2011 02:39 alexhard wrote:
I don't understand how people can be complaining about "the trolls". Milkis titled his post "elitist" from the start, and was highly derogatory and insulting if not downright offensive. It minimized the skill, intelligence, effort, and love of esports of the vast majority of esports players and fans worldwide. His main argument was that the fans also play the game, therefore those games are not esports. This is not a carefully crafted and laid out argument meant to convince or inform, it's inflammatory and hateful and clearly intended as such. Especially if you consider where he posted it. In the BW forums it would've been somewhat accepted if not ignored. But he went to a sc2 board and told everybody there that they are not actually esports fans.
He is the troll in this case.
Yes, he posted an inflammatory article and probably shouldn't have. The difference is, a well-thought-out counter argument is fine. The "trolls" people are referring to are the ones who reply with personal attacks as opposed to arguments about the article.
Note the difference between:
"I disagree with your entire point and I think its insulting to put down the other esports communities"
vs
"I think you're a cunt that can't translate without stuttering like a marine running from banelings" (this was similar to two actual replies that I am paraphrasing)
If you can't tell the difference, then there is no hope.
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Thank god, she had a horrible accent and I couldn't understand her casting.
User was banned for this post.
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Honestly that thread is just one of a billion examples of why Reddit is terrible site and why I've never posted there,
Thank you Milkis. I agree with probably 99.99% of whatever you have ever said and thought you were a nice guy and great contributor to the community. It's sad that other people can't seem to see it that way.
Wish you the best, and hopefully one day you'll decide to return.
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Katowice25012 Posts
On October 30 2011 01:49 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Keep in mind that when you say something publicly and read so much feedback, you are going to get every single kind of response. You may as well not read the feedback and just imagine "what is every possible way someone could respond to this?" There's really no difference.
This is the smartest thing I've read in a while, that's a really genius way to look at it. You should write some kind of pamphlet we can just hand out to people who are uncomfortable being personalities.
Milkis really has done a lot of great things for no other reason than because he loves the game, so its unfortunate to see this kind of situation happen.
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On October 30 2011 02:42 1Eris1 wrote:
Honestly that thread is just one of a billion examples of why Reddit is terrible site and why I've never posted there,
Thank you Milkis. I agree with probably 99.99% of whatever you have ever said and thought you were a nice guy and great contributor to the community. It's sad that other people can't seem to see it that way.
Wish you the best, and hopefully one day you'll decide to return.
You're delusional if you think the same appreciate majority and negative minority don't exist in both /r/sc and TL. Every thread of his was met with the same 99.9% appreciation and .1% troll that exists in every area of the internet. It is not specific to /r/sc or TL.
Hell, just look at the post below this one.
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Post an opinion.
People disagree. (+ hate comments)
Mad.
Deletes everything.
Creates another post.
More drama.
bye!
I'm sorry but my 10 year old cousin could handle (YouTube) Internet hate more than you. Appreciate your work so far. GL with whatever you decide to do in the future.
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Don't do it kelly, EPORTS needs you :'(
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On October 30 2011 02:42 ski107 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 02:39 alexhard wrote:
I don't understand how people can be complaining about "the trolls". Milkis titled his post "elitist" from the start, and was highly derogatory and insulting if not downright offensive. It minimized the skill, intelligence, effort, and love of esports of the vast majority of esports players and fans worldwide. His main argument was that the fans also play the game, therefore those games are not esports. This is not a carefully crafted and laid out argument meant to convince or inform, it's inflammatory and hateful and clearly intended as such. Especially if you consider where he posted it. In the BW forums it would've been somewhat accepted if not ignored. But he went to a sc2 board and told everybody there that they are not actually esports fans.
He is the troll in this case. Yes, he posted an inflammatory article and probably shouldn't have. The difference is, a well-thought-out counter argument is fine. The "trolls" people are referring to are the ones who reply with personal attacks as opposed to arguments about the article. Note the difference between: "I disagree with your entire point and I think its insulting to put down the other esports communities" vs "I think you're a cunt that can't translate without stuttering like a marine running from banelings" (this was similar to two actual replies that I am paraphrasing) If you can't tell the difference, then there is no hope.
If you actually read the reddit link, you will see that the highly upvoted comments are mostly well articulated, they are critical but not insulting.
edit; lol at the guy who think it's kellymilkies ^^.
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On October 30 2011 02:39 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 02:35 Talin wrote:On October 30 2011 02:27 Derez wrote:On October 30 2011 02:22 Talin wrote:
You know, it's very telling that some of the reactions on this thread are just as bad as many on reddit (if not as extreme).
TL has definitely lost much of its etiquette and class over the last year. There's not a lot left that makes it unique any more. Saying that the "internet is evil, don't listen to it" or whatever is easy and you may think saying that makes you look mature or smart in a cynical way, but it really doesn't. Making even a small place on the internet NOT blend into that stereotype is extremely difficult, and not many people care enough to contribute to that anymore.
Milkis is one of those guys who made TL and symbolized the TL community for me, and also one of the rare people whose views on a lot of [s]e-sports[/e] Starcraft related things I can agree with. But I'm not going to ask him to reconsider his decision if he indeed made it, as I don't think TL really deserves guys like him anymore.
Just get a paid translator who will be a nobody with no opinions and will take any bashing in the world for a paycheck. That's the trend in ESPORTS nowadays anyway, isn't it? Professionalism! Yay. It's all about the context of the community you place it in tho. Milkis could have posted that exact same thread on the TL BW forum, and it wouldn't have gotten nearly the kind of reaction that it did over on reddit. Yet he chose to make his point on the SC2 reddit, which is not as strictly moderated as TL and attracts a crowd of which only a small percentage have an interest in BW in the first place (much like TL SC2). It's kind of like coming over to my house and explaining in detail why every piece of furniture I have is terrible and how everything you own is superior. There's a reason people don't react friendly to behaviour like that. Nothing is forbidding you from doing it, but at least be reasonable in the expectations you have. If he posted it in TL SC2 forum, the reaction wouldn't be any better. Hell, the reactions to this very blog post (which is game "neutral" and it's a completely different topic anyway) aren't much better. Even if he posted it in the TL BW forum, do you really think people who disagree with him wouldn't read it anyway and respond to it much in the same way? That's optimistic to say the least. The bottom line is, Milkis is the kind of person who can post an informed and educated opinion on something, and has done enough for the community and been around long enough to warrant everyone who responds to first think long and hard before disagreeing, and even if they disagree to do it in a respectful manner. 98% of the people in that thread posted in an acceptable manner. He posted a very controversial and drastic piece of opinion, so he is going to get rather drastic comments. The remaining 2% stepped over the line but that's got nothing to do with Reddit or TL, that's just how the internet works.
I don't know what's acceptable to you, but my count is definitely not at 98%.
And I've already addressed why "that's how the internet works" is a shit argument, so I won't get into that again. Here's an easy step to make it work a bit less like that: ban everyone who was disrespectful to Milkis in this very thread. Simple. Clean. Easy.
These people are only here because they're allowed to be here and post here. They are not here because "that's how internet works", they are here because they aren't being actively removed.
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Man people can be such dicks on reddit.... T_T. Wish you the best of luck, kind of sad you had to make this decision but I hope you make the best of it.
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On October 30 2011 02:42 1Eris1 wrote:
Honestly that thread is just one of a billion examples of why Reddit is terrible site and why I've never posted there,
Thank you Milkis. I agree with probably 99.99% of whatever you have ever said and thought you were a nice guy and great contributor to the community. It's sad that other people can't seem to see it that way.
Wish you the best, and hopefully one day you'll decide to return.
Duh that whole thing had nothing to with Reddit. If a community figure would make a post in the TL BW forum about how BW sucks and is inferior to SC2, he's going to critized, too. And people calling people retarded for nothing exist on every website on the internet.
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On October 30 2011 02:42 1Eris1 wrote:
Honestly that thread is just one of a billion examples of why Reddit is terrible site and why I've never posted there,
Thank you Milkis. I agree with probably 99.99% of whatever you have ever said and thought you were a nice guy and great contributor to the community. It's sad that other people can't seem to see it that way.
Wish you the best, and hopefully one day you'll decide to return.
ROFL, the response from TL posters would've been 100x worse.
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Germany25657 Posts
I always enjoyed your translations and your great work at the last couple of MLGs.
Would be nice if you reconsidered, if not i still wish you all the best in life 
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On October 30 2011 02:42 Broodworrior wrote:
Thank god, she had a horrible accent and I couldn't understand her casting.
This isn't Kellymilkies. 
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The fact that you care about what reddit thinks just makes me laugh.
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On October 30 2011 02:44 Jetaap wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 02:42 ski107 wrote:On October 30 2011 02:39 alexhard wrote:
I don't understand how people can be complaining about "the trolls". Milkis titled his post "elitist" from the start, and was highly derogatory and insulting if not downright offensive. It minimized the skill, intelligence, effort, and love of esports of the vast majority of esports players and fans worldwide. His main argument was that the fans also play the game, therefore those games are not esports. This is not a carefully crafted and laid out argument meant to convince or inform, it's inflammatory and hateful and clearly intended as such. Especially if you consider where he posted it. In the BW forums it would've been somewhat accepted if not ignored. But he went to a sc2 board and told everybody there that they are not actually esports fans.
He is the troll in this case. Yes, he posted an inflammatory article and probably shouldn't have. The difference is, a well-thought-out counter argument is fine. The "trolls" people are referring to are the ones who reply with personal attacks as opposed to arguments about the article. Note the difference between: "I disagree with your entire point and I think its insulting to put down the other esports communities" vs "I think you're a cunt that can't translate without stuttering like a marine running from banelings" (this was similar to two actual replies that I am paraphrasing) If you can't tell the difference, then there is no hope. If you actually read the reddit link, you will see that the highly upvoted comments are mostly well articulated, they are critical but not insulting. edit; lol at the guy who think it's kellymilkies ^^.
That's exactly my point.
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On October 30 2011 02:27 Misanthrope wrote:
Milkis, everywhere you go people will behave poorly. Don't forget about the people who really appreciate what you've done for the community. I didn't know you weren't involved with MLG directly, and sort of stumbled onto all of this. That's fantastic man, you've done a lot for us. I really hope you'll reconsider.
99% of the hatred belongs to 1% of the community.
I am the 99%, occupy Milkis' heart! <3
Don't let the 1% dictate what happens, stay for the 99%.
I don't care if you think he is bluffing, the guy deserves it.
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If all this does one thing it should be to cement how much of a boss Incontrol is to have a tank like shell in the face of trolls, sure he gets angry about it but never indignant.
Anyway, good luck in whatever you do outside of public eye, it is clearly not suited for you.
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On October 30 2011 02:37 mewby wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2011 02:33 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On October 30 2011 02:20 Newtonz wrote:On October 30 2011 02:16 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
I feel like anyone who has enjoyed a Milkis translation owes him more than calling him silly or calling his bluff. I wasn't going to write anything but then I remembered that I've benefited from a lot of work that he's given me freely. Keep in mind that Milkis has contributed WAY more to the community than he's taken away. If you think he's making a mistake by posting this and leaving, then you should try to imagine what comment you could write here to get him to change his mind and make him feel comfortable returning and doing more translations. Simply pointing out that it's a mistake is not very helpful =/ This is the equivalent of a hormonal sixteen year old girl asking everyone on Facebook whether or not she is pretty. Of course she is pretty and she knows it, but she wants the attention and reassurance. I'm simply not going to give a grown man that type of reassurance. None of us need it nor deserve it. No, it's not at all. I have no idea how you've come away with such a poor understanding of my posts. I can't even begin to help you understand. he's talking about milkis lol
Milkis your translation is like honey on yogurt-- or butter on bread if you are more comfortable with that analogy.
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On October 30 2011 02:37 evolute wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you've done, and all the translations you've given; you've given us (me) a chance to converse and understand our favourite players.
But you're wrong on your opinion. You got called out. You posted a controversial topic expecting backlash, got backlash, and now are quitting 'esports' because of it. Which really doesn't make sense, considering you just got done saying that BW was the only real esport but most of your work is not in BW.
Heck, you posted a BW glory thread in a SC2 'forum'. What did you expect, honestly?
You're not getting any sympathy from me. Thanks for all you've done; no thanks for being a drama queen.
Can you not say SC2 forum please? Please call it a Starcraft forum. Thank you.
Also, he's not wrong. There are plenty of people who agree with his opinion.
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EPT
