• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:51
CEST 19:51
KST 02:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE12Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b8IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly4Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"9ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!42
StarCraft 2
General
Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Terran or Protoss
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly INu's Battles#18 - Cure, herO, Rogue & ByuN
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game ASL22 General Discussion screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 2v2v2v2 Tournament [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Star Con San Diego 2026
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread 2026-27 Football Thread placeholder TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Games, Hormones, and "Dark" …
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9366 users

Baby steps on the antisuck quest.

Blogs > Jakesully
Post a Reply
Jakesully
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States24 Posts
October 24 2011 18:58 GMT
#1
Lauren here.

I still need to post a replay - when I posted last, I said that I'd hit a road block and that seemed to be a pretty big suggestion. Life got busy, but I had a couple pretty big losses over the weekend that I definitely think are worth looking at.

That being said... I think I've tweaked a couple of things that have improved my play dramatically. I can't believe they were this simple:

1) I caved and put health bars on all units, all the time.
My probe production and chronoboosting have been much tighter ever since.

2) I changed my 4gate build order.
I originally had been using the 4gate build from Liquipedia, and often when I'd play with/against my friend in silver, I'd find that my gates were finished significantly later than his. I assumed I was just slow (and I probably am). After my last post about getting stuck, though, I decided to see if there was a better build out there - or at least one that worked better for me.

What I ended up with was the MCstyle 4gate from SC2Builds. I don't know if I was just clueless the entire time, or if this build just was easier for me to follow, but it's worked wonders. I don't have exact numbers beyond the last fifteen games (I can only see what's up on BNet right now as I'm at work), but of those, I won nine, lost five. In the past twenty-four, I think I've lost only nine.

Coming from someone who was relieved when she approached winning half her games, this is huge.

That's not to say by any means that I suddenly feel like I've gotten good - but I do feel a lot better than I did before. I don't quiver in fear when I face Zerg like I used to (though two of my last losses were 'ling rushes), and I feel like I have a chance in PvT and PvP. I've been playing people ranked higher than me again, too, which is a relief.

I think that I'm going to continue working on tightening up my 4gate, but I also want to learn another build so that, once 4gate ceases to be enough, I'll have something else in my repertoire. I also want to work on my transitions, and, of course, the ever-constant macro.

Quick story time: I had someone BM me the other day. "Wasn't that embarrassing? You were surrounded by drones. No wonder you're in bronze. Try getting off of one base next time. Good luck."

He was also in bronze.

And on that note, I'll pull up a replay sometime this week. I actually have a fairly long PvZ that I really want to understand. I'm terrible when things get to midgame.

*
Zorkmid
Profile Joined November 2008
4410 Posts
October 24 2011 19:06 GMT
#2
From your post it seems like the number one thing you should learn is a new build. Try the Forge Fast Expand or 3 gate expo. (Both can be found on liquipedia)
Lakona
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada110 Posts
October 24 2011 20:27 GMT
#3
How many games per day or week do you play on average, would you say?
Jakesully
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States24 Posts
October 24 2011 20:52 GMT
#4
On October 25 2011 05:27 Lakona wrote:
How many games per day or week do you play on average, would you say?

It varies. On a weekend, I might play 15, 20 a day - I actually am wondering if I should play less, as I tend to get punchy the longer I play. Weekdays? I usually play four or so, more if I feel I'm doing well, or I'll take a day off.
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
October 24 2011 22:50 GMT
#5
the two 4gates you compared are exactly the same minus 1 chronoboost different

O_O
Lakona
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada110 Posts
October 24 2011 23:40 GMT
#6
On October 25 2011 05:52 Jakesully wrote:It varies. On a weekend, I might play 15, 20 a day - I actually am wondering if I should play less, as I tend to get punchy the longer I play. Weekdays? I usually play four or so, more if I feel I'm doing well, or I'll take a day off.


Oh sick, that's actually pretty solid. At higher levels I think it can be a bad habit to continually click right into the next game out of rage after losses without stopping to analyze replays, but I don't think playing too much would be any kind of issue at your current level since you're mainly trying to ingrain builds through repetition.
Zariel
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia1312 Posts
October 25 2011 00:50 GMT
#7
Good to see practicing being paid off.

The basis of 4 gate is to develop a general game sense. You come to realise the importance of being 'razor sharp' with the mineral/gas timings. Sure your on one-base, but you learn the limits of one base which allows you to learn the limits of two bases.

I remember the first time I started fast expanding, I was trembling, constantly thinking 'hey, I could get demolished right here, right now', but you learn the game at a completely different level and the learning curve grows exponentially. Things like teching, upgrading, defenses and increased scouting requirement come into play.

Start by getting a robo+observers and simply 'observe' whats going on in an enemy base, you learn a lot more of your enemy that way. At your level, the idea you could try tacking on would be to question yourself with the info you got from your observer: "Can my army take on his army?", if yes - expand, if no - build more units.
sup
Jakesully
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States24 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-25 00:58:30
October 25 2011 00:55 GMT
#8
On October 25 2011 07:50 Complete wrote:
the two 4gates you compared are exactly the same minus 1 chronoboost different

O_O

I don't think the Liquipedia one chronoboosts at all until the stalker - unless you were supposed to just know to boost after the 9 pylon and after the gateway. The second pylon and core come out at slightly different times as well.The timing with the one from SC2Builds just lines up in timing slightly better, I think.

On October 25 2011 09:50 Zariel wrote:
The basis of 4 gate is to develop a general game sense. You come to realise the importance of being 'razor sharp' with the mineral/gas timings. Sure your on one-base, but you learn the limits of one base which allows you to learn the limits of two bases.

[...]

Start by getting a robo+observers and simply 'observe' whats going on in an enemy base, you learn a lot more of your enemy that way. At your level, the idea you could try tacking on would be to question yourself with the info you got from your observer: "Can my army take on his army?", if yes - expand, if no - build more units.

I've definitely learned the value of strong timing - it's made a world of difference in my 4gate. This game is precise. It's more and more amazing the more I learn. And if I make it past my push, I usually go for a robo next. I'm learning a lot about what works, what doesn't. I definitely still need help recognizing enemy builds, though.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Patches Events
17:00
Patch Clash #9
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs TBD
RotterdaM881
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 881
mouzHeroMarine 322
ProTech72
BRAT_OK 41
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 23329
Calm 5363
Dewaltoss 154
Sharp 52
Hyun 39
Sexy 33
IntoTheRainbow 12
Mong 1
Dota 2
Gorgc9377
League of Legends
Grubby2179
Counter-Strike
fl0m4926
x6flipin410
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang086
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu113
Other Games
FrodaN2501
singsing1379
Mlord636
Beastyqt591
XaKoH 131
QueenE67
Trikslyr48
Chillindude28
MindelVK27
Organizations
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 328
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 4
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix6
• Pr0nogo 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2557
League of Legends
• Nemesis3186
• TFBlade1075
Other Games
• imaqtpie867
• Shiphtur401
Upcoming Events
OSC
9m
Replay Cast
6h 9m
Escore
16h 9m
CrankTV Team League
17h 9m
Big Brain Bouts
22h 9m
Spirit vs sOs
GgMaChine vs Percival
Serral vs MaxPax
OSC
1d 4h
Replay Cast
1d 6h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 10h
RSL Revival
1d 15h
ByuN vs SHIN
Solar vs Lambo
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 17h
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Clem vs Serral
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-29
SCTL 2026 Spring
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W5
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
Escore Tournament S3: W8
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.