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Dustin Browder, you are doing it wrong. - Page 3
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whitelly
Czech Republic50 Posts
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accordion
Canada58 Posts
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Ares[Effort]
DEMACIA6550 Posts
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
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Nightmer09
Romania16 Posts
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marttorn
Norway5211 Posts
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
On October 24 2011 02:16 accordion wrote: And you know what the worst part is? We get to do this all over again during Legacy of the Void. Hopefully Protoss will finally get a Zealot with a gun. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
Some of this niche units look pretty "cool". dropping the carrier is uncool though. And I do agree with the other differences you mention that could be much better. | ||
The_Templar
your Country52798 Posts
On October 24 2011 00:52 Harrow wrote: I think my least favorite of these new units is the Dark Archon. It just seems SO gimmicky. Mind Control? Maybe that would fit in some campy game like RA2, but it's so out of place in Starcraft. An AoE stun just makes me think the WoW designers suggested it as well. Why can't they make more units like the Scout, which really fits the Protoss race and has really clear uses in pro games? Amazing post! I largely agree with the blog also. | ||
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Molybdenum
United States358 Posts
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deafhobbit
United States828 Posts
On October 24 2011 01:03 Zergneedsfood wrote: Real shameless BW promotion there. Can't say I disapprove though.  In the theme of shameless BW promotion, Sayle is casting a foreigner tournament right now. If anyone who doesn't have a background in BW wants to see why people who do are complaining about seemingly gimmicky units, check it out. http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Sayle | ||
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laguu
Finland278 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
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Myrkskog
Canada481 Posts
For better or worse, we're stuck with the easiest, and unfortunately for me, least appealing solution of giving as many units and buildings as many abilities as possible to eat up as much of people's APM as possible. Without a fundamental redesign this will be ridiculously hard to change, and we are on the path to seeing a lot more gimmicks in the future with the Protoss expansion as well. Simply put, Browder's design philosophy requires that you need a million things you need to do with your units(and HoTS pretty much doubles it) because you have nothing left to do at home. Nobody's talking about removing MBS or auto-mining anymore, and I don't think that I would want to revert it myself, but these were the fundamentals that made the simplicity of Brood War's fighting units work. The problem with StarCraft 2, despite the fact that we're seeing all these "creative units"("ridiculous units" is more appropriate), is that Dustin Browder and his team are not creative at all. In fact, they are incredibly stale and stagnant in their thinking. Brood War's success lay in the fact that the game was played nothing like the designers intended. To hope to achieve the same in StarCraft 2 would be ridiculous and suicidal. Brood War was a great accident, like potato chips, but you can't look to it for solving SC2's problems. StarCraft 2 was going to need some genuinely creative thinking to make it great(on purpose), and the minute that the game was first revealed and we saw that both Terran and Zerg had a Dragoon we knew we were fucked. | ||
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SpoR
United States1542 Posts
On October 24 2011 00:30 EvilTeletubby wrote: Very well written sir, good way to articulate not just HotS issues, but basically SC2 issues altogether. SC2 is definitely flashier, but lacks what Brood War had in terms of substance.  agreed. Occam's Razor | ||
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Daozzt
United States1263 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On October 24 2011 00:42 AIRwar wrote: I don't get why everyone is so negative about this... Things are NOT finalized. If you'll remember in WoL beta, Roaches were pretty much free and only cost 1 food. But guess what, the design team weren't idiots, so they fixed it. That's the point of betas. WOOSH, you don't get the point. It's not balance that's the issue, it's the gameplay and in which way the new units will push it. | ||
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Rinrun
Canada3509 Posts
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Kid-Fox
Canada400 Posts
On October 24 2011 05:16 Myrkskog wrote: Nice job drawing the parallel between Dustin Browder's previous work and his design philosophy for StarCraft 2. I totally agree with you that he is taking it in the wrong direction. Unfortunately, the return to simplicity that you are hoping for can't be the solution. The mechanics of SC2 dictate that there needs to be some form of APM eater in place of Brood Wars challenging macro to keep it exciting. Dustin Browder decided that his specialty, gimmicky units, would fill that void. It would have taken some deep brainstorming to come up with another solution, and who knows what that alternative would have looked like. For better or worse, we're stuck with the easiest, and unfortunately for me, least appealing solution of giving as many units and buildings as many abilities as possible to eat up as much of people's APM as possible. Without a fundamental redesign this will be ridiculously hard to change, and we are on the path to seeing a lot more gimmicks in the future with the Protoss expansion as well. Simply put, Browder's design philosophy requires that you need a million things you need to do with your units(and HoTS pretty much doubles it) because you have nothing left to do at home. Nobody's talking about removing MBS or auto-mining anymore, and I don't think that I would want to revert it myself, but these were the fundamentals that made the simplicity of Brood War's fighting units work. The problem with StarCraft 2, despite the fact that we're seeing all these "creative units"("ridiculous units" is more appropriate), is that Dustin Browder and his team are not creative at all. In fact, they are incredibly stale and stagnant in their thinking. Brood War's success lay in the fact that the game was played nothing like the designers intended. To hope to achieve the same in StarCraft 2 would be ridiculous and suicidal. Brood War was a great accident, like potato chips, but you can't look to it for solving SC2's problems. StarCraft 2 was going to need some genuinely creative thinking to make it great(on purpose), and the minute that the game was first revealed and we saw that both Terran and Zerg had a Dragoon we knew we were fucked. To be honest, I'd like to see a "competitive" ladder where MBS, infinite unit select, and smartcasting are all removed, and also every unit has its own micro they need (somewhat like broodwar). It sounds like a horrible step backwards but it's a shorter step backwards than where the new heart of the swarm design is going. If heart of the swarm's competition is as lopsided as woL's has been, I'll start going back to iCCup and playing sc2 casually on the side. If Blizzard babysits the game as much as they did before, I predict sc2 will never become quite like what sc1 was. It will be a mediocre RTS with too much money put into it, balanced or not. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66360 Posts
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