After seeing the new zerg I was very happy. I didn't believe Blizzard would listen to the community and get back two zerg units, we were begging for. To be fair, it's not real defiler and lurker, but the purpose of those units should be similar. So i thought - hey, if they did it with zerg, why couldn't they do it with toss? If not a classic reaver..then maybe..a FLYING reaver? Air to ground AoE attack? Would be pretty sick, right? And there's no such unit in the game yet..
However, after seeing the new toss units, happiness changed to sadness. Maybe I'm biased because I wanted reaver so much, but I don't find any of toss units nearly as interesting as viper or host. People are freaking out about replicant, but I feel a unit like that is VERY polarized. It's either super powerful what would make it imbalanced, or it's too weak, what would make it useless. Just see mind control in BW, great in theory, shitty in real. And yes, I'm aware that we don't know anything more about that unit than those few words on the poster. I won't talk about those other two units because I have really no idea how will they work, how much will they cost, etc.
edit: Hm, so first reaction from players - replicant can shapeshift into an enemy's unit if it gets into melee-range. So..yea :/
Poll: Would you rather have reaver than colossu+the new units?
Reaver! (66)
94%
Colossus+those new units (4)
6%
70 total votes
Your vote: Would you rather have reaver than colossu+the new units?
The prophecy is coming true, WoL = Terran gets powerful, HotS = Zerg gets powerful (although it's too early to make real prediction about gameplay I have this feeling terran will still be the overall best race) and hopefully for LotV we'll get good units.
i dont want the reaver cos they need to make this as different from BW as possible. If they just put back in all the old units they're never gonna get the chance to bring new ones in
On October 22 2011 03:11 ThatGuy89 wrote: i dont want the reaver cos they need to make this as different from BW as possible. If they just put back in all the old units they're never gonna get the chance to bring new ones in
You realize that the BEST things about this news is (1) defilers (slightly modified), (2) lurkers (slightly modified), and (3) hydra speed, right? All the things Zerg players wanted back from BW.
On October 22 2011 03:11 ThatGuy89 wrote: i dont want the reaver cos they need to make this as different from BW as possible. If they just put back in all the old units they're never gonna get the chance to bring new ones in
why the F do they "need to make this as different from BW as possible"? We then wouldn't have marines, zealots, hydras etc. in the game, would we. Thing is, reaver is objectively 10000000x times better than colossus which everyone - tosses, zergs, terrans - HATES. It would make the game much more interesting than a-moving with colossi and praying they don't have enough vikings or corruptors.
For someone who has terrible micro and can only a-move, I appreciate how easy Colossi makes life. But god I miss reavers SO much. The most exciting moments watching any P game was reaver harass/shuttle micro. I honestly don't know if there'll be any other single unit that gives as much suspense as a reaver and it's scarab (except maybe HT and storms). Will it kill 238473 workers or will it be a dud?
Protoss doesn't even feel like Protoss anymore, with 80% of its units removed and replaced by generic 4 legged robots. I miss corsairs and arbiters, dark archons and dragoons (the original quadraped bro). Yes, scout, I miss you too. And just now, my heart almost broke when I saw that they were removing carriers too. ;___;
On October 22 2011 03:32 seraphe wrote: For someone who has terrible micro and can only a-move, I appreciate how easy Colossi makes life. But god I miss reavers SO much. The most exciting moments watching any P game was reaver harass/shuttle micro. I honestly don't know if there'll be any other single unit that gives as much suspense as a reaver and it's scarab (except maybe HT and storms). Will it kill 238473 workers or will it be a dud?
the issue with the reaver is, blizz can't re-introduce such a buggy AI for scarabs. And without such a buggy UI it'd either be completely OP if they didn't nerf it, or they would nerf it and then it wouldn't be that much fun to watch anymore. There's just no way to bring back the "good old reaver"..
"reaver" rolls of the tongue very easily, and is catchy. It is also a bug, and it can't be killed by stupid air units.
Exhibit B: Reavers kill things very quickly, and it's not in a stupid line.
Colossus just walk around all day with their crabby mantis legs and shoot things in a straight line thinking they're all cool and fancy. Then they die to air units.
The reaver, on the other hand, blows up a huge clump of SCV's while laughing at the silly air units.
Exhibit C: How many korean fangirls have screamed in excitement over some awesome colossus warp prism/colossus micro? Not many.
On October 22 2011 04:46 BabyToss! wrote: I never played BW (or any other RTS on that matter)...what makes Reavers so unique?
It's a very good unit in some ways(incredible 100+ splash damage, range), and shitty in others (slow, so forced to be carried around in shuttles and its attacks can dud).
That's the main excitement from the reaver really. It requires really good micro to use well (difference between 0 and 50 scv kills), and its burst damage is huge so every time you're able to get a good, shot off it does wonders. The tension leading up to that is also exciting because there's a chance it might dud, which means most of their shots are game changing (either in a good way or bad way).
On October 22 2011 04:46 BabyToss! wrote: I never played BW (or any other RTS on that matter)...what makes Reavers so unique?
Reaver is an insanely slow and costly unit that fires attacks (scarabs) that do MASSIVE aoe damage. The problem is that scarabs have extremely unpredictable AI, and half of them end up not even exploding, making reavers the most high risk/reward units in the game. In addition, because reavers are so slow, they require shuttles to move them around, which makes reaver/shuttle micro a staple of good protoss play. Watching reaver harass is always a nailbiting experience; there are SO many things that can go wrong: shuttle could get sniped in mid air (if it has 2 reavers in it, gg), reavers could land in mines, bad micro could lead to reavers getting sniped, and everyone's favorite... dud scarabs. But when it succeeds, there's nothing more satisfying. 20 scvs, drones, probes exploding at once, oh yeah.
Here's one of my favorite shuttle/reaver plays from recent games, set 3 of Jangbi vs. Fantasy in the OSL finals. Jangbi knows Fantasy has goliaths to snipe the shuttles, so he pulls off some fabulous dual shuttle play in order to get those reavers in. Sadly, his scarabs aren't as lucky, but it was still fantastic.
On October 22 2011 04:46 BabyToss! wrote: I never played BW (or any other RTS on that matter)...what makes Reavers so unique?
It's a very good unit in some ways(incredible 100+ splash damage, range), and shitty in others (slow, so forced to be carried around in shuttles and its attacks can dud).
Just for BabyToss! info. A reaver's speed would be similar to Queen off-creep speed.
On October 22 2011 04:46 BabyToss! wrote: I never played BW (or any other RTS on that matter)...what makes Reavers so unique?
I think everyone will have different answers. Here's mine.
Reavers are high risk high reward. That's not to say they are glass cannons, because they aren't used that way. Reavers were always used with Shuttles, which are fast, agile and weak. Reavers themselves are fairly weak but do very high damage. The duality between a weak, agile, fast carrier and a huge damage dealer makes for excitement.
Also, the way the splash damage hit was at times a little bit random. Scarabs (the attack of a Reaver) would sometimes hit what seemed like the sweet spot and do very little splash damage to surrounding unts; whereas sometimes they would hit off-center locations and deal massive damage. The unexpectedness made for excitement everytime a Scarab was on the field.
Lastly, the Scarab had a property where if it was on the field for long enough, it would "dud" and deal 0 damage. This lead to situations where a Scarab was trying to chase a retreating unit, get caught up on another unit and expire, leading it to explode and deal 0 damage.
So the combination of high risk, high damage, and unexpectedness made for insane excitement everytime a Reaver was on the field.
That being said, I wish being would acknowledge the units they loved in BW and move on, instead of demanding them in SC2. I don't want the Lurker, Defiler, Reaver and Science Vessel in SC2. I loved them in BW - now I want new units in SC2.
I think the love with reavers is that they are similar to banelings. Banlelings can do MASSIVE damage and totally turn an entire game around in a single conflict. Howwever the propel with banelings is that if your opponent has good micro they do basically no damage. They're exciting because they can do huge damage but lame because they are basically just a-move units (literally move-command but the same idea). Reavers are similar in the amount of damage they are capable of but the difference is that thy are dependent on the users micro rather than the opponent. It's like banelings in zvz. Banelings wars are always super tense because you know there is a ton of micro going on to control the banes to do the maximum amount of damage. Whereas in ZvT it's more like : gooooo banelings, I hope your micro is bad and this works out in my favor.
96% of people want the Reaver back? I am truly starting to wonder how many people actually miss the Reaver compared to the amount of people that just want to join the crowd. At first thought I would love to have the Reaver back, but then I remember all the times I failed miserably to accomplish anything with it. Even if they brought it back I doubt I would use it often. It's a slow, low hp, risky unit that is only useful in the hands of a very skilled player.
On October 22 2011 10:55 kilergrunt wrote: 96% of people want the Reaver back? I am truly starting to wonder how many people actually miss the Reaver compared to the amount of people that just want to join the crowd. At first thought I would love to have the Reaver back, but then I remember all the times I failed miserably to accomplish anything with it. Even if they brought it back I doubt I would use it often. It's a slow, low hp, risky unit that is only useful in the hands of a very skilled player.
Eh, I've always thought that the Reaver in BW was balanced out by the lack of clumping and the bad Scarab AI, neither of which would be in SC2 if the Reaver. As others have said, it would have to be nerfed into oblivion if put back into SC2, and by then it just wouldn't be the Reaver anymore.
I would love to see a powerful, cool Reaver-like unit in SC2 rather than a watered-down, nerfed SC2 Reaver.
On October 22 2011 11:27 eviltomahawk wrote: Eh, I've always thought that the Reaver in BW was balanced out by the lack of clumping and the bad Scarab AI, neither of which would be in SC2 if the Reaver. As others have said, it would have to be nerfed into oblivion if put back into SC2, and by then it just wouldn't be the Reaver anymore.
I would love to see a powerful, cool Reaver-like unit in SC2 rather than a watered-down, nerfed SC2 Reaver.
modern sc2 players dont have much issue reducing baneling splash. the scarab is no different than the baneling.
On October 22 2011 11:27 eviltomahawk wrote: Eh, I've always thought that the Reaver in BW was balanced out by the lack of clumping and the bad Scarab AI, neither of which would be in SC2 if the Reaver. As others have said, it would have to be nerfed into oblivion if put back into SC2, and by then it just wouldn't be the Reaver anymore.
I would love to see a powerful, cool Reaver-like unit in SC2 rather than a watered-down, nerfed SC2 Reaver.
modern sc2 players dont have much issue reducing baneling splash. the scarab is no different than the baneling.
True. But 100 damage (125 with the upgrade) is a pretty damn large amount damage. 1-shots Marauders. 2-shot Roaches. They would have to tweak this somehow, probably through nerfs.
And to the person who said reavers would never get used, are you serious? Did not ever play BW? Reavers are useful at every skill level and even at D-rank everybody uses them.
EPT
