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I just read the thread about the possibility of SC2 being played in Proleague. It sounds really exciting for a Starcraft fan like me, as I watch both BW and SC2. I kind of started more closely following it since the I think OSL finals of Stork v. Fantasy, I think it has been a year? The last game was on the same map (I don't know the name ) which the Jangbi v. Fantasy finals this year was played and Fantasy I think used siege tanks to siege near base and drop into the base. Anyways, I'm getting sidetracked. This blog would be pretty boring if I was here to talk what I have watched and what I enjoy.
The real reason behind this blog is the people who post shit like "Omg BW is dying finally...." or "It's time for a switch, BW had 10 years." or any variation of ignorant and stupid comments. These people are clearly pissing of a lot of people here, including me. Now I am probably not the best spectator of BW as me following it kind of coincides with me discovering TL, which actually is about the same time when I discovered that the SC2 Beta was starting and I was trying to watch anything on Youtube about it. Right now when I look back, it really feels great to be there, when it was starting up. Watching HDH and thinking how cool this thing was and how I'm definitely going to pick up SC2 (I played BW when I was a child, in fact Starcraft was one of the first games I ever owned but I kinda forgot about it later)
Watching Idra playing really well in MLG Orlando reminded me my "past" with SC2 so far. Being a fan of Idra for me, is a big thing in terms of SC2. I didn't know anything about him when I started watching HDH and his other games on Youtube, and his blunt, somewhat seemingly bored/annoyed but clearly interesting personality together with him being one of the most skillful players in the scene have kept me going as a fan. For that reason, I feel a special bond to not just him, but to SC2, and to the scene itself. It's a commitment as much as being a fan. And he is not the only one. Some players like WhiteRa, TLO, Painuser, qxc, SeleCT(with his amazing run at MLG DC) and orb (I love watching that guy's stream) are just only the ones I can get from the top of my head now. When I think about Idra, I remember his series vs. WhiteRa in the Beta, with that crazy engagement in Game 3 on Metalopolis, with WhiteRa casting absolutely fantastic force fields and taking off that game, later the series. I remember Painuser for some crazy TvT he played on Metal, wiith Tanks, Thors, Banshees. When I think about TLO, the first thing I remember is his game vs. Nazgul in TL Open tournament on Metalopolis, with the Battlecruisers and Nukes. When I think about orb, I remember some game on Desert Oasis where he force fielded a roach army to death, and opposing player being mad. It's been a lot of stories for me, this past year. When I think about qxc, drewbie and Fenix, I remember their crazy games against each other in the same MLG that I followed for the first time, and how exciting I felt.
It's been a lot of time and progress ever since I had my first peek to MLG, I even forgot what it was called (Was it Raleigh?), but it was cast in one of the side stages, with not that great stream quality compared to now, and I found about it accidentally by checking the side bar for streams. Watching this scene grow and progress further is an awesome feeling.
It's time to get to the point. There is something that some people should understand. Anyone who's been here before SC2 and watched BW religiously, just like me, followed it to the heart, reading news, interviews, watching games and discussing about the cool stuff about it, have been through this path more or the less. So when I read stupid comments like "Fuck BW; it has had its time." I really feel angry and sad. You are ridiculing and saying bad words about someone else's commitment and passion. Would you like the same thing to happen for your own? They've have been following it for years, being there following it from when Jangbi casted his uber storms vs. Nada, to famous "ee-han timing" game of Stork v. Jaedong and to the controversial Jd v. Flash finals with the power outage at MSL. There is probably other moments I might be forgetting to add, and that is because I haven't watched the every single BW game I can find yet. But the point is simple: What you're doing is terrible. Don't do it.
Regarding the SC2 being in Proleague, I think it is a really interesting piece of news but I don't want BW to die. Because I want to watch it more. It would be unfair for it to end abruptly, as I have plenty of other awesome BW finals to watch, just like the last OSL Finals. The game is really amazing to watch. It is a piece of art, Bill Roper and all the other guys at Blizzard created a game that was miles away other RTS for its time, and continued its existence for longer than a decade through a game that was so well built, with three races completely different from each other, a game that allowed difference in strategies to be possible. The graphics, though outdated, allow you to clearly see what dies and what stays alive. Although the pathing and unit AI can be bad sometimes, this causes fights to last longer, making more epic games. It is really, really fun, and for those SC2 fans who've never done it (It is really weird for me to think that you wouldn't even check at least BW forums and a BW stream when it's on, but it is entirely possible) you should definitely do it. You will enjoy it a lot.
Although there are some aspects that I disagree regarding BW and what makes it fun to watch (such as auto-mine and no-MBS being somehow important, which I don't really agree), one thing is clear that without BW, what we / I love to follow today would not have existed. Be respectful. Without BW, there would be no SC2; the game, a pro-scene, fans, or casting or anything related to it. I think most of the disrespectful ones are doing it because they're trolling, or they are super ignorant teenagers who don't care about anything else but the new shiny thing in town. I don't really care for them as they aren't worth the time. My word is to those who don't understand BW enough to know what it is. It is not that hard. Just try to watch the next tournament and try to follow what's going on in chat or forums. There is a whole different, vibrant world out there that you might have never seen before, and I think you're going to like it.
Lastly, I want to thank you, readers, who have read this long blog up to this point. I hope you liked it. Sometimes these really help me to collect me thoughts and reflect more on issues. And I think that's what blogs are for. Thank you.
 
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I don't understand why people who don't enjoy BW care if it dies. It's so unbelievably rude, they think the top players will just come over like that if BW dies?
Personally, I think BW is an awesome game, I prefer the harder mechanics as it rewards better play and shows more diversity between styles, more individualistic styles etc. I do wish I had discovered the Starcraft a lot earlier and could have had a more indepth interest into BW.
Some people just need to learn manners.
But then again both sides start being a bit too aggressive too each other then it spirals out of control :|
Why can't we have nice things!
SC2 really is massive, there are tournaments running every day. You can just come to TL and find something interesting whether it is a top player streaming, GSL, NASL, show regarding SC2 or whatever and I think this really does spoil some people, they get whatever they want and constantly ask for more.
Anyway that's my unstructured thoughts, I really do hope it works out well for both games.
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It's only natural for the masses that only follow SC2 to want to see the best RTS players in the world playing their game. I do get annoyed when there are at least 2 posts on every page of a spotlighted BW General thread saying "about time all these guys moved on to SC2!!!!", but there's really no way to stop it, since it seems a majority of TL feels that way. I love TL, all the writers and translators that allow us to follow the BW scene, but I almost feel like we need a separate website if we're ever to escape the constant inflammatory posts turning every spotlighted BW Gen thread into a BW vs SC2 flamewar. Even typing that makes me sad, because I'm a fan of both games. It's too bad that the SC2 masses can't appreciate both games like we do.
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Also looking at psychological point of view, I think the community was irreversibly damaged by initial KeSPA-Blizzard spat that split fans into "Us and Them" mentality. Nothing could have been more harmful to the path of mutual respect.
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On October 20 2011 04:15 Gann1 wrote:
It's only natural for the masses that only follow SC2 to want to see the best RTS players in the world playing their game.
They're not the best RTS players in the world.
They're the best BW players in the world. And I really wish people would get over this distinction.
It's the same with real sports.
There is no "best athlete ever."
There is also  BeSt but he sucks.
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On October 20 2011 04:25 kainzero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 04:15 Gann1 wrote:
It's only natural for the masses that only follow SC2 to want to see the best RTS players in the world playing their game. They're not the best RTS players in the world. They're the best BW players in the world. And I really wish people would get over this distinction. It's the same with real sports. There is no "best athlete ever." There is also BeSt but he sucks.
Sc2 also has  TheBest but people don't think much of him..
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On October 20 2011 04:25 kainzero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 04:15 Gann1 wrote:
It's only natural for the masses that only follow SC2 to want to see the best RTS players in the world playing their game. They're not the best RTS players in the world. They're the best BW players in the world. And I really wish people would get over this distinction. It's the same with real sports. There is no "best athlete ever." There is also BeSt but he sucks.
This is how they see it. Blame Intrigue. I personally agree, but we'll never really know.
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Nowadays, before I start a thread in the BW general section, I have to worry about whether there's going to be an incoming shitstorm if the information is not entirely good news for BW or has any references to Kespa. It shouldn't have to be this way but unfortunately, I think the situation is irreparable. Sad.
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Truth is true Ryo.
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i know only of one Stork vs Fantasy OSL Final, and that was in 08!
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On October 20 2011 04:44 green.at wrote:
i know only of one Stork vs Fantasy OSL Final, and that was in 08!
There was also Bacchus 2010, where those 2 faced off again.
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The difference between BW and SC2 is that if you make a casual 'SC2 is for noobtards; BW is best', nobody even cares.
With an attitude like that, why wouldn't you look forward to those people moving on?
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Maybe im wrong, but i think there are a lot of SC2 fans that are younger because the game is new so they picked up on this shiny new game, where as since BW has been out for so long, a lot of the BW fans are a bit older. (All this is in general, not every fan!) And because some SC2 players are younger, they also didnt grow up with BW, and as a young teen chances are you'll wanna play the newest game with the prettier graphics, right? Which basically creates a separation and they 'defend' their game by bashing on BW because it seems thats what the younger society does now a days (bashes anything they dont like/know).
Then there's also the exception of people who are just jerks, the people who just enjoy poking fun at others and shitting on BW for now reason but to get people angry. But as much as we see the SC2 fans bashing on BW, i have to be honest and say that there are many BW fans that always have to leave their two cents in the SC2 forums and start with the "SC2 takes less skill, less micro, stupid cluttering, etc". Whether most of that is true or not doesnt matter (lets face the facts, these 2 games have some big differences), because it doesnt belong in the SC2 section. And obviously the 'SC2>BW' crap doesnt belong in the BW section either.
It does really suck to see this kind of split, but its to be expected i guess. I wish more people were able to like both, but that's just not the case. 9/10 people new to the StarCraft community will pick SC2 > BW, just because its new, so its normal that you'll get some of those people wanting BW to die down because some sick players would probably move over to SC2. And that results in a lot of them saying some stupid things about BW because most of them dont even know anything about BW.
To be completely honest, yes im more of a fan of watching SC2 than BW, but i always respect BW & the BW section of TL, and BW was actually a big part of my childhood too!
Anyways, thats just my 2 cents on the subject, i might be completely off, but i feel like the maturity of many (not all!) of the SC2 fans is really low, like all the flaming, stupid comments and especially the trolling. so annoying lol
I hope BW can continue to hold on longer, and continue producing some great matches.
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On October 20 2011 04:47 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 04:44 green.at wrote:
i know only of one Stork vs Fantasy OSL Final, and that was in 08! There was also Bacchus 2010, where those 2 faced off again.
I recall no such match happening.
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On October 20 2011 05:12 Gann1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 04:47 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:On October 20 2011 04:44 green.at wrote:
i know only of one Stork vs Fantasy OSL Final, and that was in 08! There was also Bacchus 2010, where those 2 faced off again. I recall no such match happening.
It happened I'm pretty sure because as I said in OP I watched it. I think it was Bacchus 2010 too.
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On October 20 2011 05:14 Bleak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:12 Gann1 wrote:On October 20 2011 04:47 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:On October 20 2011 04:44 green.at wrote:
i know only of one Stork vs Fantasy OSL Final, and that was in 08! There was also Bacchus 2010, where those 2 faced off again. I recall no such match happening. It happened I'm pretty sure because as I said in OP I watched it. I think it was Bacchus 2010 too.
He's a Khan fan. 
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On October 20 2011 05:16 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 05:14 Bleak wrote:On October 20 2011 05:12 Gann1 wrote:On October 20 2011 04:47 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:On October 20 2011 04:44 green.at wrote:
i know only of one Stork vs Fantasy OSL Final, and that was in 08! There was also Bacchus 2010, where those 2 faced off again. I recall no such match happening. It happened I'm pretty sure because as I said in OP I watched it. I think it was Bacchus 2010 too. He's a Khan fan.
Oh that explains it :D
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incruit osl 2008 was glorious.
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On October 20 2011 04:35 Ryo wrote:
Nowadays, before I start a thread in the BW general section, I have to worry about whether there's going to be an incoming shitstorm if the information is not entirely good news for BW or has any references to Kespa. It shouldn't have to be this way but unfortunately, I think the situation is irreparable. Sad.
Valkyrie Prepared
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As someone who rarely goes to the BW forum, I'm quite sure the hostility goes both ways because of some people. I mean for most of the past year, you couldn't really browse the SC2 forum without running into comments saying how horrible the game is compared to BW from people who supposedly hated SC2 but where there in the SC2 forum letting everyone know.
So if you take someone with no knowledge of BW, and that is their primary exposure to it, I think it's easy to see why the problem the OP is talking about exists.
I can't help but feel this is largely driven by BW players being disappointed by SC2, and then further disappointed that other people are actually enjoying SC2, so they take it upon themselves to let everyone know what an inferior product it is.
Like I said I don't really browse the BW forum often, so maybe SC2 players are just as bad there, but that's my side of it.
Also the stereotyping gets annoying. I played BW 15 years ago when I was in high school, basically half a lifetime ago. I got in SC2 because of that, and I actually think it is a better game. Better to play, but waaaaay better to watch.
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Of course there are some BW fans who went into SC2 forums to cause trouble but those incidents are getting fewer. It's still as bad if not worse in the BW forums. You just have to look at the threads in the Community News. Almost every single BW news thread that has been placed in Community News has gone to rubbish.
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You see a lot less of the kind of sentiment the OP described. Nazgul and some of the other moderators cracked down quite hard when anti-BW feelings were at their peak around nine months or so ago.
There's still enough of it for me to largely be sick of this website. I used to live here, but after SC2 rolled out, the quality of the community really has gone down. SC2 brought in a TON of people to TL, and with a huge influx of people, you're going to get idiots and trolls no matter how hard you try to moderate them.
I mean...I like SC2. It's a fun and easy game to play. Matchmaking is an incredible tool. I hated getting kicked from 9/10 rooms on iccup and having to spam in chatrooms for ten minutes to get a game in -_-.
The thing is, I just don't think it holds as much as a candle to BW. Sure, SC2 hasn't had the time to mature as BW has, but I just don't see the fundamentals of SC2 lending it the longevity or diversity BW still has. I don't like automine, I don't like unlimited unit selection, and I don't like MBS. Those UI limitations really set apart the great players from the mediocre ones, and I think that's something really important. I also really miss the old defender's advantage in BW. Nowadays, games are over too quickly, and that's boring too. Seeing Bo3s for everything gets a little old. This is all just my view on things, though.
I don't know. The retards who are still hating on BW in any way, shape, or form are either a) bitter that they never got out of D- on iccup way back in the day, or b) have never played the game. They're all retarded.
I do have a bit of old-timer elitism in me, though. I've been around for nearly four years now, which isn't nearly as long as the real old-timers, but just enough for me to get nostalgic for the pre-SC2 days. ):
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One trend I also want to note is that BW=Good, SC2=Bad mentality the former seem to be having. Not good/bad as in a game, but as in a community. Honestly I saw pretty ridiculous posts coming from BW too. Those who write such stuff may not think of it but it's pretty inflammatory to those that think SC2 highly. I guess it's too much to ask for people to suppress their honest opinions for sake of "not disturbing the lion" though (once again for both sides), so the war will go on.
By the way I don't watch SC2 besides MLG, getting it out now.
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On October 20 2011 06:23 PH wrote:I don't know. The retards who are still hating on BW in any way, shape, or form are either a) bitter that they never got out of D- on iccup way back in the day, or b) have never played the game. They're all retarded.
This is kind of what I was talking about. If you don't like BW, it's a or b folks.
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On October 20 2011 06:09 Treemonkeys wrote:
As someone who rarely goes to the BW forum, I'm quite sure the hostility goes both ways because of some people. I mean for most of the past year, you couldn't really browse the SC2 forum without running into comments saying how horrible the game is compared to BW from people who supposedly hated SC2 but where there in the SC2 forum letting everyone know.
So if you take someone with no knowledge of BW, and that is their primary exposure to it, I think it's easy to see why the problem the OP is talking about exists.
I can't help but feel this is largely driven by BW players being disappointed by SC2, and then further disappointed that other people are actually enjoying SC2, so they take it upon themselves to let everyone know what an inferior product it is.
Like I said I don't really browse the BW forum often, so maybe SC2 players are just as bad there, but that's my side of it.
Also the stereotyping gets annoying. I played BW 15 years ago when I was in high school, basically half a lifetime ago. I got in SC2 because of that, and I actually think it is a better game. Better to play, but waaaaay better to watch.
As a BW fan I have to confess that I was massively disappointed by SC2 when it came out. I was sooo looking forward to BW with better graphics and a couple minor tweaks and a couple new units. But what we got in the beta was a rushfest which was terribly boring. It has gotten better but there's still a ton of rushes and one base play. So yeah, I still think BW is the better game to watch. And if some SC2 kid comes along and bashes BW without knowing anything about it I get angry. If they knew at least what they were talking about but the lack of knowledge and the ignorance is sometimes infuriating.
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On October 20 2011 06:09 Treemonkeys wrote:
As someone who rarely goes to the BW forum, I'm quite sure the hostility goes both ways because of some people. I mean for most of the past year, you couldn't really browse the SC2 forum without running into comments saying how horrible the game is compared to BW from people who supposedly hated SC2 but where there in the SC2 forum letting everyone know.
So if you take someone with no knowledge of BW, and that is their primary exposure to it, I think it's easy to see why the problem the OP is talking about exists.
I can't help but feel this is largely driven by BW players being disappointed by SC2, and then further disappointed that other people are actually enjoying SC2, so they take it upon themselves to let everyone know what an inferior product it is.
Like I said I don't really browse the BW forum often, so maybe SC2 players are just as bad there, but that's my side of it.
Also the stereotyping gets annoying. I played BW 15 years ago when I was in high school, basically half a lifetime ago. I got in SC2 because of that, and I actually think it is a better game. Better to play, but waaaaay better to watch.
I don't think anyone from the "SC2" crowd dares go post negatively in the BW forums anymore. They will get a text format shitstorm thrown at them, and probably a temp ban from a mod. The BW forums are bad enough as it is with just the depressing news getting thrown around all the time now. The last thing we need are trolls and idiots wishing death on this game of games.
You are right in that the conflict goes both ways, though. To be fair, however, SC2 is a sequel to BW whether you like it or not, and the BW community basically saw wave after wave of disappointment as more information about SC2 was released way back when. It may have largely been undue cynicism and neophobia, but regardless, the game really is entirely new. It has very few of the things that made BW an amazing game and really allowed it to have the longevity it did.
For a community that had lived and breathed BW for nearly ten years at the time, you have to admit that SC2 being the game it is (one so different at even fundamental levels) was going to cause this kind of disappointed sentiment from the BW crowd.
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I'm not going to lie, I don't read threads about BW any more, because they are all the same.
It's not like I feel no sympathy for you guys, but the posts BW fans rage at are all literally the same thing, every single thread. At some point you have to recognize that replying to it in a huff achieves nothing. If it's mild, ignore it. If it's not, report it. As of now it's just new thread, same as the old thread.
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On October 20 2011 06:23 PH wrote:
You see a lot less of the kind of sentiment the OP described. Nazgul and some of the other moderators cracked down quite hard when anti-BW feelings were at their peak around nine months or so ago.
There's still enough of it for me to largely be sick of this website. I used to live here, but after SC2 rolled out, the quality of the community really has gone down. SC2 brought in a TON of people to TL, and with a huge influx of people, you're going to get idiots and trolls no matter how hard you try to moderate them.
I mean...I like SC2. It's a fun and easy game to play. Matchmaking is an incredible tool. I hated getting kicked from 9/10 rooms on iccup and having to spam in chatrooms for ten minutes to get a game in -_-.
The thing is, I just don't think it holds as much as a candle to BW. Sure, SC2 hasn't had the time to mature as BW has, but I just don't see the fundamentals of SC2 lending it the longevity or diversity BW still has. I don't like automine, I don't like unlimited unit selection, and I don't like MBS. Those UI limitations really set apart the great players from the mediocre ones, and I think that's something really important. I also really miss the old defender's advantage in BW. Nowadays, games are over too quickly, and that's boring too. Seeing Bo3s for everything gets a little old. This is all just my view on things, though.
I don't know. The retards who are still hating on BW in any way, shape, or form are either a) bitter that they never got out of D- on iccup way back in the day, or b) have never played the game. They're all retarded.
I do have a bit of old-timer elitism in me, though. I've been around for nearly four years now, which isn't nearly as long as the real old-timers, but just enough for me to get nostalgic for the pre-SC2 days. ):
I share this sentiment, meh -.-
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That's the thing though. Your contempt for SC2 is so casual, that when it's expressed, it barely causes a ripple.
How many times do you see people use 'because BW' in a discussion about SC2? How often do you see this mindset get challenged. We had a 'I wish SC2 was BW' thread get featured on the front page.
You thinking that BW is better than SC2 is not what's worrisome, your being so content with the idea that idea that BW > SC2 now and forever comes to you so naturally that you don't even feel the need to justify it is what's worrisome.
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Yeah I agree it was inevitable, that much change will always bring controversy regardless of if it is actually good or bad. The meta game in BW is better to watch though, for sure, but SC2 will get there, we already see it getting there (BW was a rush fest back when I played it actually). I think things like auto-mine and being able to hotkey multiple macro buildings are good because in BW those are "you have to play it to understand/care" types of things. SC2 does a better job of presenting what the player is actually doing to the spectator, and if it is still being played 10 years from now the time and energy saved from the easier interface will bring more micro and multitasking than was even possible for BW.
If you look at it from the perspective of there being an absolute limit of how fast a human can be, how many tasks they can juggle (regardless of that limit being unknown and different for the individual) given enough time and competition, they will reach that limit - without spending a chunk of it on building units and telling workers to mine. Pretty exciting future for SC2, just my 2 cents.
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On October 20 2011 06:30 PH wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 06:09 Treemonkeys wrote:
As someone who rarely goes to the BW forum, I'm quite sure the hostility goes both ways because of some people. I mean for most of the past year, you couldn't really browse the SC2 forum without running into comments saying how horrible the game is compared to BW from people who supposedly hated SC2 but where there in the SC2 forum letting everyone know.
So if you take someone with no knowledge of BW, and that is their primary exposure to it, I think it's easy to see why the problem the OP is talking about exists.
I can't help but feel this is largely driven by BW players being disappointed by SC2, and then further disappointed that other people are actually enjoying SC2, so they take it upon themselves to let everyone know what an inferior product it is.
Like I said I don't really browse the BW forum often, so maybe SC2 players are just as bad there, but that's my side of it.
Also the stereotyping gets annoying. I played BW 15 years ago when I was in high school, basically half a lifetime ago. I got in SC2 because of that, and I actually think it is a better game. Better to play, but waaaaay better to watch. I don't think anyone from the "SC2" crowd dares go post negatively in the BW forums anymore. They will get a text format shitstorm thrown at them, and probably a temp ban from a mod. The BW forums are bad enough as it is with just the depressing news getting thrown around all the time now. The last thing we need are trolls and idiots wishing death on this game of games. You are right in that the conflict goes both ways, though. To be fair, however, SC2 is a sequel to BW whether you like it or not, and the BW community basically saw wave after wave of disappointment as more information about SC2 was released way back when. It may have largely been undue cynicism and neophobia, but regardless, the game really is entirely new. It has very few of the things that made BW an amazing game and really allowed it to have the longevity it did. For a community that had lived and breathed BW for nearly ten years at the time, you have to admit that SC2 being the game it is (one so different at even fundamental levels) was going to cause this kind of disappointed sentiment from the BW crowd.
There are at least two topics right now that have page after page after page of scattered negative posts.
It happens all the time.
Also, our disappointment is not with just the game. I don't feel like quoting myself or retyping it but we've been hit in every aspect of our game.
It's very hard to be a foreign BW fan, it's just getting harder.
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On October 20 2011 06:44 Treemonkeys wrote:
Yeah I agree it was inevitable, that much change will always bring controversy regardless of if it is actually good or bad. The meta game in BW is better to watch though, for sure, but SC2 will get there, we already see it getting there (BW was a rush fest back when I played it actually). I think things like auto-mine and being able to hotkey multiple macro buildings are good because in BW those are "you have to play it to understand/care" types of things. SC2 does a better job of presenting what the player is actually doing to the spectator, and if it is still being played 10 years from now the time and energy saved from the easier interface will bring more micro and multitasking than was even possible for BW.
If you look at it from the perspective of there being an absolute limit of how fast a human can be, how many tasks they can juggle (regardless of that limit being unknown and different for the individual) given enough time and competition, they will reach that limit - without spending a chunk of it on building units and telling workers to mine. Pretty exciting future for SC2, just my 2 cents.
I don't think automine/MBS should be in SC2; but they are very heavily the reason why BW evolved in strategy for so long and to this day. Forget there being 'no skill ceiling' in SC2, of course there isn't - but what are you seeing that i'm not about the supposed exciting future? But when you consider the tools that players are given in SC2 to focus their attention on, it just doesn't interest me after a long time of BW spectating. If i'm not impressed by spellcasting or unit micro then it leaves it basically down to decisions and tactics. But in my view it's not particularly engaging in that aspect either. Not to mention once an engagement happens it's over almost instantly.
This is how the game is intended to be by Blizzard, for accessibility; so i don't foresee the expansions or any patching that changes the fundamentals. And as long as it's like that, it doesn't interest me.. good for people if it interests them but i can't get excited about it. I gave the most recent MLG a fair shot and just didn't like. Casters exaggerating things that i KNOW are not as big as they make out was an annoying factor too.
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There are ridiculous and hurtful comments coming from both sides. "SC2 is such an inferior game, all the players suck, it'll die in two years and never make it big in Korea, have fun while it lasts, noobs," is just as rude as, "Fuck BW, I hope it dies, it's had his time, and that'd be good for SC2 anyways." I'm also pretty sure that anyone saying the former will just encourage someone else to say the latter in response, so all we get are massive hate-circles whenever SC2 and SCBW fans collide.
Anyways, I heavily doubt that SCBW will be phased out purposefully by KeSPA in favor of SC2. SCBW's not getting replaced. KeSPA's just throwing another game into the mix to possibly draw in more international viewers. It'd be no different if they were, for instance, adding War3 into Proleague*. Nobody would get threatened by that, right? Just treat SC2 as another game that happens to be less popular in Korea but more popular elsewhere, and you get the same thing.
*Hypothetically. Just throwing in an example, as ridiculous as it sounds.
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Well as a BW fan, I'm not really threatened by SC2 as I find it fun to watch and to play. What I just don't like is this constant talk about BW pros switching over to SC2... I mean, there is so many interesting players in SC2, why is it really so important to take away BWs shining stars? Personally, I think we should just do something like, whenever "SC2" is mentioned in the BW forums it just turns into "BW" again. The only time I ever see SC2 on BW forums is to either make fun of SC2 or to piss off BW enthusiasts.
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I want to raise a counterpoint.
How many people who joined because of SC2 have gotten into BW?
Chef wrote a well meaning post in Website Feedback about BW news being posted in Community News becoming flame wars. Well I went through that thread as an excercise and most new posters were throughly supportive of BW.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=274702
Even the post in Community News about SC2 in Proleague has been mostly positive. It is just that negative posts get highlighted and become threads of their own. There will always be trolls in every community and it is the responsible thing to report and ignore. Instead people get sensitive when some dumbass posts an ignorant comment and the whole place explodes.
Come on people, look for the positive. Look for the good posters brought to BW by SC2. It is not all bad and complaining about something that really had died down significantly in the last year just creates a bad atmosphere.
SC2 is a game that is reviving this community. You may feel that it didn't need reviving, but the fact is people are learning about BW because of SC2. Celebrate that, encourage that. Welcome quality posters and ignore the shit that comes with the few trolls that don't know how to post.
This may be a rant but it is a rant from frustration. TL is an amazing community because people feel like they belong. We should encourage that.
Long live SC2 and BW.
Fuck the trolls.
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I played BW 15 years ago when I was in high school, basically half a lifetime ago.
15 years ago you say... Are you think of WarCraft II? Sorry, but they are a little different.
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On October 20 2011 04:25 kainzero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 04:15 Gann1 wrote:
It's only natural for the masses that only follow SC2 to want to see the best RTS players in the world playing their game. They're not the best RTS players in the world. They're the best BW players in the world. And I really wish people would get over this distinction. It's the same with real sports. There is no "best athlete ever." There is also BeSt but he sucks.
No they're the best RTS players in the world.
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I blame Intrigue, his Final Edit was one of the worst things to happen to the community in the time I've been here.
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On October 20 2011 11:17 TheButtonmen wrote:
I blame Intrigue, his Final Edit was one of the worst things to happen to the community in the time I've been here.
You mean since December last year?
Just kidding  I've been here less time and thought the article needed a little more tact. There have been far worse threads on the site though. Intrique was simply tapping into a feeling that was and is prevalent. Be that fair or not.
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On October 20 2011 11:37 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 11:17 TheButtonmen wrote:
I blame Intrigue, his Final Edit was one of the worst things to happen to the community in the time I've been here. You mean since December last year? Just kidding I've been here less time and thought the article needed a little more tact. There have been far worse threads on the site though. Intrique was simply tapping into a feeling that was and is prevalent. Be that fair or not.
He made it a front page issue, he dragged the masses of people who didn't care anything at all about BW into the long running fight between the BW only crowd and the SC2 newbloods and he gave seemingly official support to a lot of the ignorant BW hate for SC2.
It's bad enough that a SC2 player insulting BW gets temped where as a BW player insulting SC2 gets no punishment but to have that same double standard trumpeted on the front page fostered a lot of ill-will towards the BW community.
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Canada5565 Posts
Really, people are saying those things in the thread? brb ban hammer
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On October 20 2011 11:44 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 11:37 Probulous wrote:On October 20 2011 11:17 TheButtonmen wrote:
I blame Intrigue, his Final Edit was one of the worst things to happen to the community in the time I've been here. You mean since December last year? Just kidding I've been here less time and thought the article needed a little more tact. There have been far worse threads on the site though. Intrique was simply tapping into a feeling that was and is prevalent. Be that fair or not. He made it a front page issue, he dragged the masses of people who didn't care anything at all about BW into the long running fight between the BW only crowd and the SC2 newbloods and he gave seemingly official support to a lot of the ignorant BW hate for SC2. It's bad enough that a SC2 player insulting BW gets temped where as a BW player insulting SC2 gets no punishment but to have that same double standard trumpeted on the front page fostered a lot of ill-will towards the BW community.
This is true but it also staunched the bleeding.
You cannot deny that there are far fewer SC2vBW trolls or visa versa now then there were. Ignoring something doesn't make it go away and as painful as that thread was, I think it served a purpose. The double standard will always exist and fits nicely with the "respect veterans" theme of TL. The mods in general show great support for both games.
I can't help but feel this is one of those issue that is blown way out of proportion everytime it is raised.
PS if you read that FE, I wasn't so sanguine back then
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Heh, It's okay neither was I.
But honestly the issue is going to continue as long as there is that double standard as it just builds up resentment towards the BW crowd here.
Still it's okay I guess that the BW players are so bitter, I mean how couldn't they be jealous of what us SC2 fans are building.
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Bah we'll outlive you guys yet!
And it's a really awesome house of cards so far, just saying.
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Oh, dear...
Pot, kettle, spade?
To be fair the number of poker players that tried BW suggests they have more experience with cards. Building or otherwise. Maybe we can contract out?
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EPT
