• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:35
CET 16:35
KST 00:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
The top three worst maps of all time Foreign Brood War BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Data analysis on 70 million replays BW General Discussion
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread The Perfect Game
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1389 users

Foreigners' success

Blogs > lolsixtynine
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
lolsixtynine
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States600 Posts
October 17 2011 03:52 GMT
#1
With the first major victory for a foreigner at a tournament where serious, mid to top-level Koreans are competing, it seems that the gap between foreigners is making real, tangible progress towards closing. Say what you want about HuK's training schedule in Korea, but he's not the only foreigner that did well today.

Just three months ago, people were questioning whether a foreigner would ever win an MLG. Hell, some people were betting against any foreigners making the top 6 for the rest of the year. It's true that Koreans still disproportionally represent the top of the championship bracket, but it really doesn't seem that far out of reach anymore.

If IdrA and HuK can get top 4 at MLG, I have no doubt that Naniwa, Thorzain, and other foreigners at the top level can go to Korea and maybe even make a GSL finals someday.

And lose to whichever IM player decides to win it this time, but that's what Koreans do too.

*
Smix *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States4549 Posts
October 17 2011 03:53 GMT
#2
slasher = kim carrier of sc2
TranslatorBe an Optimist Prime, Not a Negatron // twitter @smixity
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
October 17 2011 03:57 GMT
#3
who is this slasher guy anyways? never heard of him till today
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
October 17 2011 04:03 GMT
#4
On October 17 2011 12:57 Roe wrote:
who is this slasher guy anyways? never heard of him till today


former quake player turned esports advocate who hates being called zlasher.
Spessi
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
304 Posts
October 17 2011 04:03 GMT
#5
slasher is the opposite of the artosis curse.
-

I think partially it really might be that they're starting to catch up on practice, but also there was a fair amount of overlap between IEM, the redbull lan for some people, training for IPL, and then immediately going to MLG. Basically, there hasn't been any time for people to "get worse", or slump, from not playing as much...because they've effectively been forced to play a lot against a high amount of competition consistently. I think for any season this will probably end up being true; the later in the season we get, the more we'll see foreigners improve, because they're forced to play closer to a korean schedule just from the tournaments.


At the same time though, I wouldn't say that the gap has decreased at all really. When a decent amount of foreigners can go toe to toe with MKP and Bomber...maybe. But right now it's too much of an achievement to even knock a single game off of them, except for people like HuK and Idra and...idk who else really, and it's just because they're monsters in thier own right and actually DO train crazy hard and are dedicated as hell.
"Um. Everyone, I love you!" - Boxer, IPL 3, Oct 8, 2011
Geosensation
Profile Joined March 2011
United States256 Posts
October 17 2011 04:04 GMT
#6
forget him, he will only make you angry if you look into him
"My life for Aiur!"
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45135 Posts
October 17 2011 04:15 GMT
#7
[Spoilers incoming]

IdrA beating Bomber (especially game one... best TvZ I've ever seen) made me incredibly happy. Stephano, IdrA, HuK, Thorzain, and Naniwa have all kicked ass in the foreigner vs. Korean scene, and I'm confident that these players can continue to do so!

When someone takes down MVP or Nestea though... that will be when the world stops turning
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
October 17 2011 04:19 GMT
#8
On October 17 2011 13:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[Spoilers incoming]

IdrA beating Bomber (especially game one... best TvZ I've ever seen) made me incredibly happy. Stephano, IdrA, HuK, Thorzain, and Naniwa have all kicked ass in the foreigner vs. Korean scene, and I'm confident that these players can continue to do so!

When someone takes down MVP or Nestea though... that will be when the world stops turning


MVP and Nestea have the luxury of us only seeing them in 1 tournament (other than when MVP roflstomped MLG real quick). I would love to see MVP and Nestea dominate as hard playing as often and as publicly (including replays being everywhere) as almost any other pro.
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
GenoZStriker
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2914 Posts
October 17 2011 04:21 GMT
#9
On October 17 2011 13:03 LuckyFool wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2011 12:57 Roe wrote:
who is this slasher guy anyways? never heard of him till today


former quake player turned esports advocate who hates being called zlasher.

Best description of Slasher ever
eSports Prodigy & Illuminati member.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45135 Posts
October 17 2011 04:22 GMT
#10
On October 17 2011 13:19 Mattchew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2011 13:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[Spoilers incoming]

IdrA beating Bomber (especially game one... best TvZ I've ever seen) made me incredibly happy. Stephano, IdrA, HuK, Thorzain, and Naniwa have all kicked ass in the foreigner vs. Korean scene, and I'm confident that these players can continue to do so!

When someone takes down MVP or Nestea though... that will be when the world stops turning


MVP and Nestea have the luxury of us only seeing them in 1 tournament (other than when MVP roflstomped MLG real quick). I would love to see MVP and Nestea dominate as hard playing as often and as publicly (including replays being everywhere) as almost any other pro.


I agree. I suppose they're too busy playing that GSL game thingy over there in Korea or something Tsk tsk.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
October 17 2011 04:27 GMT
#11
On October 17 2011 13:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2011 13:19 Mattchew wrote:
On October 17 2011 13:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[Spoilers incoming]

IdrA beating Bomber (especially game one... best TvZ I've ever seen) made me incredibly happy. Stephano, IdrA, HuK, Thorzain, and Naniwa have all kicked ass in the foreigner vs. Korean scene, and I'm confident that these players can continue to do so!

When someone takes down MVP or Nestea though... that will be when the world stops turning


MVP and Nestea have the luxury of us only seeing them in 1 tournament (other than when MVP roflstomped MLG real quick). I would love to see MVP and Nestea dominate as hard playing as often and as publicly (including replays being everywhere) as almost any other pro.


I agree. I suppose they're too busy playing that GSL game thingy over there in Korea or something Tsk tsk.


this is not to say they arent the 2 best players in the world because they are. I'm just saying that they play in a tournament where they get to prepare for awhile on 1 matchup and a specific player.
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
October 17 2011 04:28 GMT
#12
On October 17 2011 13:03 LuckyFool wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2011 12:57 Roe wrote:
who is this slasher guy anyways? never heard of him till today


former quake player turned esports advocate who hates being called zlasher.


He's been on the esports train forevvvvvvvver... him and djwheat are serious esports oldschool.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45135 Posts
October 17 2011 04:32 GMT
#13
On October 17 2011 13:27 Mattchew wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2011 13:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On October 17 2011 13:19 Mattchew wrote:
On October 17 2011 13:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[Spoilers incoming]

IdrA beating Bomber (especially game one... best TvZ I've ever seen) made me incredibly happy. Stephano, IdrA, HuK, Thorzain, and Naniwa have all kicked ass in the foreigner vs. Korean scene, and I'm confident that these players can continue to do so!

When someone takes down MVP or Nestea though... that will be when the world stops turning


MVP and Nestea have the luxury of us only seeing them in 1 tournament (other than when MVP roflstomped MLG real quick). I would love to see MVP and Nestea dominate as hard playing as often and as publicly (including replays being everywhere) as almost any other pro.


I agree. I suppose they're too busy playing that GSL game thingy over there in Korea or something Tsk tsk.


this is not to say they arent the 2 best players in the world because they are. I'm just saying that they play in a tournament where they get to prepare for awhile on 1 matchup and a specific player.


Well I do think you're ignoring the group stages where they have to still place well in their brackets (preparing against multiple players and all races Zerg and Terran... lol there are no Protosses), but yes I see your point

The skill level against Korean Terrans is significantly higher than 95% of anyone at MLGs or other foreign tournaments, but they might get caught off guard and it would be cool to see them play foreigners Maybe it's a money issue for them ::shrugs::
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-17 05:48:14
October 17 2011 05:46 GMT
#14
Nothing has really changed. Koreans love terran and love aggression. With the nerfs to rax building time and BFH that takes away many of the things Koreans used to abuse foreigners to death with. With the lone exception of Stephano, I think the skill level overall between the scenes is still the same.
Ryusei-R1
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States2106 Posts
October 17 2011 05:46 GMT
#15
On October 17 2011 12:53 Smix wrote:
slasher = kim carrier of sc2

looooooooooooool

so true

except Kim Carrier didn't bet body parts.
Jaedong plz
Zaphid
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1860 Posts
October 17 2011 06:30 GMT
#16
On October 17 2011 14:46 Ryusei-R1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2011 12:53 Smix wrote:
slasher = kim carrier of sc2

looooooooooooool

so true

except Kim Carrier didn't bet body parts.

He'd be quadruple amputee by now...

I like where it's at now, the matches are actually interesting and upsets are expected. Look at Gatored at IEM, defeating DRG certainly was surprising, same as destroying TOP 3-0. I still think koreans are better at abusing every single advantage they can get, but that's Blizzard's job to fix.
I will never ever play Mech against Protoss. - MVP
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
October 17 2011 06:35 GMT
#17
At this point I think it remains to be seen whether foreigners in general can compete or if only the top top tier of foreigners who spend/spent an extraordinary amount of time in Korea (such as Huk/Idra/all those you mentioned) will be able to compete.
Dante08
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Singapore4139 Posts
October 17 2011 06:53 GMT
#18
On October 17 2011 12:52 lolsixtynine wrote:
With the first major victory for a foreigner at a tournament where serious, mid to top-level Koreans are competing, it seems that the gap between foreigners is making real, tangible progress towards closing. Say what you want about HuK's training schedule in Korea, but he's not the only foreigner that did well today.

Just three months ago, people were questioning whether a foreigner would ever win an MLG. Hell, some people were betting against any foreigners making the top 6 for the rest of the year. It's true that Koreans still disproportionally represent the top of the championship bracket, but it really doesn't seem that far out of reach anymore.

If IdrA and HuK can get top 4 at MLG, I have no doubt that Naniwa, Thorzain, and other foreigners at the top level can go to Korea and maybe even make a GSL finals someday.

And lose to whichever IM player decides to win it this time, but that's what Koreans do too.


Err I agree with you but Huk won dreamhack with a pretty good lineup of koreans
Order
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Lithuania231 Posts
October 17 2011 06:54 GMT
#19
We can't jump to such conclusions after a couple of tournament titles. Yes, foreigners are doing much better, but when we think about it huk was always good but he only got THIS GOOD when he started training in Korea. Idra as well. Idk, it just seems sometimes like the Korean players are coming to these foreign events and they're just having fun here. Looks to me like they aren't coming for the titles at all. Ofc, winning is always great, but take MKP @ MLG Orlando for example. The reddit community donated money for him to go there and he didn't really play the top level of terran at all, but the way he did play.... he was definitely paying his fans back with those strategies.

I'm saying that the way I see it is that if the skill gap might have narrowed a bit, yes, but it's far from being gone. And it won't be gone until sc2 will be perceived in the west as it is in Korea.

For me personally, this little rivalry of Korea-vs-the-World gives a lot of charm to the scene.
Common Sense - so rare that it's a super power
nitdkim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1264 Posts
October 17 2011 07:07 GMT
#20
I think that Huk doing well in tourament is more of a testament to how much the foreigners are behind in terms of practice and the infrastructure. Huk is competing with Koreans because he is practicing as Koreans practice. He had a coach and team living with him to help out with his understanding of the game for about a year or so (of course he left to join EG).

The gap is certainly there and it can only be crossed when you walk the same path that Huk chose to take. You have to go to Korea and practice with a korean team.

I think that the rate of improvement from the Koreans will quickly outpace the rate of improvement of the foreigner scene and it's only natural.
PM me if you want random korean images translated.
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
15:00
King of the Hill #233
SteadfastSC64
Liquipedia
WardiTV 2025
12:00
Group Stage 1 - Group B
Scarlett vs RyungLIVE!
WardiTV1551
ComeBackTV 611
TaKeTV 368
IndyStarCraft 240
Rex133
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 240
Rex 133
ProTech110
SteadfastSC 64
LamboSC2 46
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 62180
EffOrt 1536
Hyuk 832
Stork 664
Jaedong 561
BeSt 246
Mini 188
ggaemo 183
Last 144
910 141
[ Show more ]
Hyun 101
Killer 80
LaStScan 77
Shinee 63
Barracks 47
Mind 39
Shine 29
ToSsGirL 27
HiyA 16
Noble 13
Terrorterran 13
Dota 2
Gorgc4327
qojqva3939
syndereN649
Counter-Strike
fl0m3741
zeus1244
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King92
Chillindude31
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu294
Khaldor228
Other Games
singsing3039
B2W.Neo996
Happy184
ArmadaUGS177
XcaliburYe171
XaKoH 93
nookyyy 41
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1202
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 11
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• iHatsuTV 14
• Reevou 8
• HeavenSC 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 34
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3741
League of Legends
• Jankos2831
Upcoming Events
IPSL
1h 25m
Bonyth vs KameZerg
BSL 21
4h 25m
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
17h 25m
Wardi Open
20h 25m
StarCraft2.fi
1d
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 1h
Replay Cast
1d 8h
WardiTV 2025
1d 20h
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
[ Show More ]
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV 2025
3 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
WardiTV 2025
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
IPSL
6 days
Sziky vs JDConan
RSL Revival
6 days
Classic vs TBD
herO vs Zoun
WardiTV 2025
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-12-04
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
Kuram Kup
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
RSL Offline Finals
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.