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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
The shield battery could solve this if it was strong enough. If it was cheap (75-200 minerals) and built fast, it could create a defenders' advantage in PvP that would let players fast expand. Offensive shield batteries wouldn't be nearly as effective as defensive ones for obvious reasons. What do you think?   | ||
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Kassploj
Sweden67 Posts
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Ghin
United States2391 Posts
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
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ranjutan
United States636 Posts
On September 08 2011 22:32 Kassploj wrote: Made me angry a year after release when I realized it was gone. Maybe that's why they removed it  On topic, yeah I think that could work. It would definitely be very cool, but to be honest I don't really mind PvP anymore, even though expansions still have to be very delayed, I think (especially with 1.4) it's getting increasingly easier to hold off warpgate or blink rushes and I think that eventually the game might evolve naturally to the point where expanding before 10:00 is standard.  | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On September 08 2011 22:36 Ghin wrote: What are the obvious reasons an offensive shield battery would be less effective? 1. Building a shield battery right next to the enemy natural isn't easy. His units will be there to stop it. 2. Even if you manage to do that, the defending player's battery will have more energy since he built it earlier. 3. If you build it farther away, you have to keep going back and forth, while the defender can heal his units during the battle itself without them having to leave. Imagine if a shield battery started with 100 energy, and that energy grew very quickly so that every second mattered. You could have two batteries with 800 energy total by the time the enemy attacks you. And so what if he puts up shield batteries outside your natural? You'll still have an advantage over him. As the number of units continues to grow, eventually stalkers would be able to one shot each other. This means that the attacking player can not pull back stalkers to heal, but the defending player CAN heal his stalkers, even vs a volley that would "one shot" since not all attacks will land at exactly the same time. Because of this, eventually the defending player would be able to push out and take out the enemy pylon. | ||
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DroneAllDay
United States140 Posts
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Ghin
United States2391 Posts
On September 08 2011 22:45 vOdToasT wrote: 1. Building a shield battery right next to the enemy natural isn't easy. His units will be there to stop it. 2. Even if you manage to do that, the defending player's battery will have more energy since he built it earlier. 3. If you build it farther away, you have to keep going back and forth, while the defender can heal his units during the battle itself without them having to leave. 1. It would be just as hard to build a shield battery in the natural as it is to build a pylon there (not very hard). There is a very common build PvP called the "Korean 4 Gate" that makes multiple pylons in the opponent's main. 2. This is probably true 3. See #1. You can build a shield battery in or near his base just as easily as he can during a 4gate. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On September 08 2011 22:51 Ghin wrote: 1. It would be just as hard to build a shield battery in the natural as it is to build a pylon there (not very hard). There is a very common build PvP called the "Korean 4 Gate" that makes multiple pylons in the opponent's main. 2. This is probably true 3. See #1. You can build a shield battery in or near his base just as easily as he can during a 4gate. If I build a shield battery right after I make my gateways, my battery will have way more energy than yours. Especially if Blizzard makes it grow fast. I'll have a shield battery there before you even start building your own. And while your battery is building, I'm healing my units there and killing your battery. There's no way you could possibly do it. Also, before your battery is done, I can send my units back to heal while you are still waiting for your battery to complete, if you choose to build it far away and not in my face. As for the korean 4 gate, what if I open 3 stalker rush? that would kill your probe and the pylons it is warping in, right? Gateway core gateway gateway shield battery shield battery, with chrono'd stalkers. Remember that you can start building batteries before warp gate tech is done. Before warp gate tech, there is a defenders' advantage, meaning that I can get shield batteries up to defend much earlier than you can get them up to attack. By the time you CAN build shield batteries at my front, I already have the advantage of a shield battery, which makes it hard for you to put up your own. | ||
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CreationSoul
Romania231 Posts
i have to agree that it might actually help PvP. | ||
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WightyCity
Canada887 Posts
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Mobius_1
United Kingdom2763 Posts
And it'd make defending easier, too, but there is the possibility of it being abused somehow by really clever people. But this is one of the better ideas on the internet. EDIT: On September 08 2011 23:08 WightyCity wrote: would be a great idea. i was saying this since the beginning Hipster | ||
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Kassploj
Sweden67 Posts
On September 08 2011 22:38 ranjutan wrote: Maybe that's why they removed it On topic, yeah I think that could work. It would definitely be very cool, but to be honest I don't really mind PvP anymore, even though expansions still have to be very delayed, I think (especially with 1.4) it's getting increasingly easier to hold off warpgate or blink rushes and I think that eventually the game might evolve naturally to the point where expanding before 10:00 is standard. The reason I didn't notice until a short while back was that I don't play SC2. But yeah, not like I use it alot in BW either, happens like once every fifty games if even that. I have won a few matches solely because of the shield battery though, and I love them to death. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On September 08 2011 23:54 Kassploj wrote: The reason I didn't notice until a short while back was that I don't play SC2. But yeah, not like I use it alot in BW either, happens like once every fifty games if even that. I have won a few matches solely because of the shield battery though, and I love them to death. Shield batteries are great for expanding in PvP! :D When you're going 1 gate expand then robo, if the enemy goes 2 gate robo, he will have reavers and a shuttle. You won't have the shuttle since you expanded, so to compensate for the lack of a shuttle you have a shield battery to heal the reaver instead of picking it up and dodging enemy scarabs. Stork won a game vs Bisu on Tau Cross exactly that way in IEF. It was 1 gate expand vs 2 gate robo. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
All of these fix Protoss suggestions always sound terrific. The problem I find is they fuck up PvZ and PvT while fixing PvP. Or any other order. Balance is pretty tough Good luck though if this is something you want to put more detail into. It would be very nice to find PvP entertaining. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On September 09 2011 00:17 Probe1 wrote: Sounds great. Would you take a shield nerf on all units in trade? All of these fix Protoss suggestions always sound terrific. The problem I find is they fuck up PvZ and PvT while fixing PvP. Or any other order. Balance is pretty tough Good luck though if this is something you want to put more detail into. It would be very nice to find PvP entertaining. If shield batteries would be too good in PvZ or PvT, there is one way to fix that. Make it so that when you use a battery on a unit, it increases the shield regeneration by a LOT. But it doesn't instantly heal shields. So large numbers of units will still one shot them, but smaller numbers of units will be repelled. This will make it so that it's really only useful for PvP. | ||
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TiTanIum_
Brazil1335 Posts
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arsenic
United States163 Posts
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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Lomak
United States311 Posts
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zeru
8156 Posts
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yoshi_yoshi
United States440 Posts
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SpoR
United States1542 Posts
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On September 09 2011 02:33 zeru wrote: My idea on a "fix" for PVP is to make build time of gateway units shorter than the cooldown of warp in is when warp gates are upgraded (maybe like 3/4th of warp CD). That way there's a defenders advantage and an actual use for being able to switch back and forth between warp gates. Maybe its completely dumb though havent thought that much about it :p IIRC, before Gateway/Warpgate cooldowns weren't paused when you switched between Warpgate/Gateways, allowing Protoss to get units out faster. Then Blizzard decided to patch it out -_- | ||
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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
On September 09 2011 02:34 yoshi_yoshi wrote: How about putting the shield battery mechanic on Nexus energy? That would make it purely defensive, as well as making the Nexus more useful. I feel like this didn't get enough attention. P's have always said there's a lack of choice in what you use Nexus energy for where OC's have three options and Queens have three options. A Shield Battery mechanic attached to the Nexus would provide a massive defenders advantage at very minimal risk of having it used offensively (unless you're a complete moron). | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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Eishi_Ki
Korea (South)1667 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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Xyik
Canada728 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
I could see this interacting poorly with hardened shield though. | ||
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Count9
China10928 Posts
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
(Would also love the Inner Fire spell and Mana Regeneration (!!! High Templar amulet replacement !!!!), but I doubt that would happen even if Blizzard was super awesome) Would be totally sick, and make many Terran 1 base attacks (And Zerg ofc) much much more reasonable to hold with any build. Though EMP would rape it I'm afraid :S On September 09 2011 02:21 Lomak wrote: I don't understand how people think PvP is so wrong when ZvZ barely ever gets past baneling / speedling tech. Not complaining , but I see a lot more variance in PvP beyond 4 gate than I do in ZvZ past hatch tech, from a spectator standpoint. Most ZvZs I watch get well past the 15 minute mark, and they very frequently reach hive tech, broodlords and ultras. I saw a 50 minute ZvZ on Destiny's stream a few days ago that looked more like a TvT with mass spine crawlers, infestor drops and roach drops everywhere, and I can say with relative confidence that over 100 infestors and 50 broodlords were made in that one game. You're opinion is simply wrong, I'm sorry. If you decide to all in on hatch tech every game, that is your choice. | ||
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Aelonius
Netherlands432 Posts
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
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