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Does Blizzard have a Responsibility to ProGamers,

Blogs > TumbaStarcraft
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TumbaSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States78 Posts
September 07 2011 01:45 GMT
#1
So very recently I was digesting all of the information that I have been gathering on the current state of the game (not the show mind you the actual current state of sc2). Of course things that inspire my thoughts run the gamut from VODs, Shows, Casting, Playing, etc. This is not something I set out to do every so often, rather a running timeline of events that influence my opinions.

I decided to rage write a forum post on another website (where I knew I could get away with it). Naturally the post was about balance and centered around Protoss. I had all kinds of stats, and it was centered around the fact that Terran have won 7 of 7 major tournaments (MLG COL, ANA, RAL, NASL, IEM, Code A, Code S will be a T). The post was out of line in many ways, language, negativity, and has the possibility of being flat out wrong.

I’m 33 years old, and in everything from Golf to Professional Poker I have blamed myself for all of my own mistakes, and could never understand how someone can blame a “dealer” for bad cards,or a club for a mishit. You directly effect the long term outcome. Play bad bad results, play good good results, it’s all on you! Now I have become a hypocrite. Never before in my life have I wanted to blame IMBA more than my own actions for losses. That is something I am going to have to deal with myself. I choose to main Protoss and unless I can take the good with the bad then I need to shut up and just deal. SC2 is my passion, not my profession so balance at the end of the day really does not matter all that much to me. It does how ever effect people that are trying to make a living at this game, so lets think about that for a second.

Here is the perspective of one pro (Skew):
+ Show Spoiler +
The discussion needs to be about Blizzard's lack of giving a shit, not what race is weak or strong. Blizzard's entire answer to dealing with balance is to basically assign the most average of joes to balance the game by using overall statistics from tournaments/GM/whatever and very limited feedback from top players (I mean it's almost non-existent and they block players who disagree too much). If everyone knew Blizzard was working with the players and giving it real effort, most people would be very satisfied with this and support their efforts. But that's not the reality of what's going on and so the side effect is to whine among ourselves to no fucking end I guess.

Anyone can look at balance of even the worst competitive RTS titles (DOW/AGE/etc.) and even those games had a private forum or something where players and developers could get real feedback on topics and have actual meaningful discussion that lead somewhere. We have nothing like that here. There's not even someone saying "We're trying to get there guys, we know how important this is to all of you and we're doing our best. We are in the process of setting up channels so that players and developers can have clear and concise discussion that will lead to a better future for SC2 eSports". NEVER GONNA SEE IT.

If you actually think about it, it makes no sense why Blizzard hasn't just contacted respected organizers in the different communities to moderate private discussions between players/developers. It's all so fucking easy to do, would cost them nothing, and it would have helped the game evolve infinitely quicker than it is now (if it is at all). I mean even for SC2 beta fansites they actually had a privately run website and forums by multiple Blizzard employees that actually responded pretty quickly to inquiries in email and on the forums. Shit got done.

And let's just discuss the effort it takes since I know some asshole thinks this shit is difficult. A lot of the top players have some really clever and innovative ideas that would be easy to implement and test and they came up with those ideas in a matter of minutes. Not years, not days, not hours. Minutes. It takes David Kim a matter of months to make a patch to remove fucking seconds off some insignificant building timing that no body even uses. I'm convinced they make certain patch changes just to create the perception of someone doing something BTW, and I don't believe in conspiracies lol.

I get more upset than you about these things Tumba, at one time I almost considered dedicating multiple years of my life and moving to Korea and SC2ing. For me anyway it just came down to "should I really invest all my time in something that's ran by a company who does the bare minimum and simply doesn't care?" And so far I've never talked to a top player who would defend them to that point.


So that is where the question comes in. Does Blizzard have a responsibility to these pros to make sure the game is balanced? The cop out for Blizzard is: “hey we just try to make a great game and it’s wonderful to see what the community does”. Fact is IMO Blizzard does owe the pros more than that. The exposure these players are giving the game and their company is amazing, that aside eSports has become a viable business platform, and not just for Blizzard. I think everyone can agree the answer is obvious that yes Blizzard has a responsibility not just to the fans, but to the pros.

Does Blizzard give a shit? It certainly doesn’t seem so. In many ways Blizzard stokes the fire rather than putting it out. The worst part is there is little to no communication from Blizzard. 99% of all arguments stem from either miscommunication or lack of communication. Blizzard is great at both. On top of that they are slow to respond to obvious changes that need to be made. Now mind you when I refer to these “obvious changes” I don’t mean balance, I mean things that are broken (ling run by on hold position Zelot, grav beam being broken, gaurdian shield not working properly vs splash dmg) now yes all of these examples are Protoss, no qq here just coincidence feel free to insert any race and any aspect broken is broken. These example should have been fixed immediately or at least addressed. Who even knew that guardian shield wasn’t working properly? Artosis was shocked on SOTG citing that he used Guardian shiled in his PvP match ups vs Colosus. This oversight could cost someone a series and a pay check. It’s ridiculous that the game is this old and GS doesn’t work right.

As I previously stated it’s as if Blizzards lack of communication makes things worse. You take a negative ladder experience, mixed with some stats, and one sound byte and you have a mob mentality recipe for disaster. If Blizzard would just be more open about where they are and what they think, most importantly where they want to go, you would end a lot of this balance bullshit. It will always exist, but at least the intellectuals can tell people to just refer to Blizzards proposed changes. That is if Blizzard would just open lines of communication. It certainly would show that they do care and they are working on it.

Right now the common perception for many Protoss is nothing is going to change until HOTS were we have a chance to become more “complete”. I think that is just a shit attitude. I have faith that Blizzard can do better than that, but maybe I’m just naive.

Now mind you many of the things in this blog post revolve around Protoss, that is merely for illustration, Zerg has had many growing pains as well. Everyone from Pros to Joes wants a balanced game. Besides how many TvT championships can we watch? Joking aside I hope Blizzard would open communication first with the Pros, as they are priortiy then follow up with the community. It’s not too much to ask, and hell it’s just the right thing to do. Makes sense for everyone including Activision/Blizzard shareholders.

Post Script

I am not proud of my rage post. I used it to vent. It is not constructive at all, in fact it’s embarrassing, but if you want to read it I won’t hide it you can find it here: http://forums.hotkeyit.com/6/protoss-=-broken-fuck-off-everyone-who-says-otherwise/179/




****
Viciousvx
Profile Joined December 2010
United States83 Posts
September 07 2011 01:51 GMT
#2
except blizzard does invite pro players to discussions.....Not north americans.
The latest was Sen which he provided some videos when it happened.
it's Almost too Easy...
TumbaSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States78 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-07 01:58:24
September 07 2011 01:57 GMT
#3
On September 07 2011 10:51 Viciousvx wrote:
except blizzard does invite pro players to discussions.....Not north americans.
The latest was Sen which he provided some videos when it happened.


I guess that is a step in the right direction. However I like Skew idea of private forums. Free exchange of idea amongst top players instantly.

One player giving an opinion is not nearly as strong as Pro Player liaisons. Put Nestea, MC, MVP and a host of others in an open round table with Blizzard watch how fast things get fixed. Round table is much better than 1v1 for many reasons. It's instant action reaction from all perspectives, with Blizzard to offer more insight that the players may not be aware of.
Geovu
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Estonia1344 Posts
September 07 2011 02:02 GMT
#4
Blizzard has a monopoly on the game due to no legal lan and control/stuffs on any tournament with a prize pool bigger than 5k.

They want to get their hands dirty in the pot of gold, but it seems like they don't want to be the ones to make sure the pot of gold doesn't tip over due to imbalance.
Thaniri
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1264 Posts
September 07 2011 02:04 GMT
#5
The reason there are so many Terrans in the finals of major tourneys is that korean terrans are REALLY FUCKING GOOD AND NUMEROUS.

I don't think MC is better than MVP/Polt/NaDa/Bomber to be competing at the same level as them, it just feels that way because other protoss results have not been so good. I mean, I'm just a noob from NA server in masters league and I can find mistakes in most of the GSL protoss games that are super dumb.

And NesTea is hands down the best player in the world, may he become the first bonjwa.

______

Also, notice how MLG seems to be mostly inviting amazing top level Terrans? There are simply statistically more of them.
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-07 02:37:49
September 07 2011 02:08 GMT
#6
To be frank, Blizzard's responsibilities are first and foremost to its shareholders.

Then we consider what aspects of their operations need to be refined in order to better serve their shareholders. If serving the progamers properly adds to their bottom line, then Blizzard by extension has a responsibility to the programers (as a result of having a responsibility to their shareholders).

Blizzard is a public corporation and I think the topic (unfortunately) needs to be seen in this light.
BordZ
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia118 Posts
September 07 2011 02:16 GMT
#7
No blizzard doesn't have an obligation to cater to the pros the majority of their income come from the sale of the game to average joes as well as the majority of the player base and as such the expectation that blizzard balances around all the different groups is to be expected which is the reason they take so long to patch. What may be balanced in grand masters may be op in gold and vice versa. So what I am saying to pro players is get of your high horse, other people paid for the game and expect a well polished and reasonably balanced game at their respective level as well.
Probulous
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3894 Posts
September 07 2011 02:21 GMT
#8
Keep in mind how often this game has been patched. Whilst, yes these things should have been right from the get-go, they are at least being fixed. Blizzard could quite easily have given up on patching the game and focused purely on the expansions.

A perfect game is hard to create, particularly one as dynamic as Starcraft. It is almost inevitable that things will be missed, the most important thing that blizzard can do to support pros is to actively fix them when they become apparent.

To me Blizzard's responsibility is to act in a way that promote a fair and balanced game. They seem to be doing that. Sure the game isn't perfect, but it is far from ridiculously out of whack and is getting better with time. Is that not enough?
"Dude has some really interesting midgame switches that I wouldn't have expected. "I violated your house" into "HIHO THE DAIRY OH!" really threw me. You don't usually expect children's poetry harass as a follow up " - AmericanUmlaut
mrafaeldie12
Profile Joined July 2011
Brazil537 Posts
September 07 2011 02:27 GMT
#9
I honestly think blizzard is kinda complacent about SC2.Remember when Phoenixes went a whole patch withouth a fix,or when two drophackers were Top5 for weeks and weeks?

I wasn't inclined to buy Diablo 3 and now after seeing the disregard for SC2 and the useless piece of garbage the Bnet forums are I just won't.
"..it all comes thumbling down thumbling down thumblin down"
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
September 07 2011 02:34 GMT
#10
Blizzard likes to take the slow, steady pace at gamebalance. Every change they make can and will have repercussions on the game. Changing something at the drop of the hat because of some whiner on the forums complained would make for a volatile, crappy game. There are two more expansions that can change things (and Blizzard has been the king of expansion balance) with many more patches.

So cool your jets.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Stim.TV
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada3 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-07 02:45:08
September 07 2011 02:38 GMT
#11
On September 07 2011 11:04 Thaniri wrote:
The reason there are so many Terrans in the finals of major tourneys is that korean terrans are REALLY FUCKING GOOD AND NUMEROUS.

I don't think MC is better than MVP/Polt/NaDa/Bomber to be competing at the same level as them, it just feels that way because other protoss results have not been so good. I mean, I'm just a noob from NA server in masters league and I can find mistakes in most of the GSL protoss games that are super dumb.

And NesTea is hands down the best player in the world, may he become the first bonjwa.

______

Also, notice how MLG seems to be mostly inviting amazing top level Terrans? There are simply statistically more of them.


I would ask that you step back for a second. Why are Korean Terrans so numerous? One possibility is that Terran is most complete race that offers the best chance to win.

As far as your MC comment, he has won more money than any other player currently so he's pretty good. Nestea is right behind him in terms of money won.

Pertaining to the mistakes you find in the Protoss play, what seem to be obvious mistakes to a layman may have more going on than meets the eye. Players in Poker often make moves that people coniseder crazy, but what people don't understand is the player did it for a very good reason. If it pans out he looks like a genius if not an idiot.

You could take the first game of the GSL finals with July Zerg vs MC. MC cancelled his nexus and 4 gated. Now if that attack failed would he have looked like such a baws?

Less player play Protoss because they are not complete. Or as complete as Terran anyhow.

EDIT: I have no idea how this was switched to Stim.tv log in, but this is Tumbastarcraft.
Stim.TV
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada3 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-07 02:45:23
September 07 2011 02:42 GMT
#12
On September 07 2011 11:08 thedeadhaji wrote:
To be frank, Blizzard's responsibilities are first and foremost to its shareholders.

Then we consider what aspects of their operations need to be refined in order to better serve their shareholders. If serving the progamers properly adds to their bottom line, then Blizzard by extension has a responsibility to the programers (as a result of having a responsibility to their shareholders).

Blizzard is a public corporation and I think the topic (unfortunately) needs to be seen in this light.


I totally agree here. However I believe (and maybe I should have gone deeper into this in the OP) that it is in the Shareholders best interest to balance the game from Pros to Joes.

The best part of your statement is this: "If serving the progamers properly adds to their bottom line, then Blizzard by extension has a responsibility to the programers (as a result of having a responsibility to their shareholders)"

Most people don't put that level of thought into it! I for one believe as stated numerous times it is the case. A balanced game is in the shareholders best interest. And let be realistic Blizzard has the budget.


EDIT: I have no idea how this was switched to Stim.tv log in, but this is Tumbastarcraft.
shindigs
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4795 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-07 02:52:34
September 07 2011 02:50 GMT
#13
Whether or not its intentional, Blizzard's hands off approach to pro's and the community has made everyone more self sufficient. There are a lot of cool projects and strategies coming out of the community that you don't see in any other gaming community just because we understand that our developer overlords won't do things for us.

And consider a very simple scenario if Blizzard made WoL a nearly perfectly balanced game. It's all going to be broken again in HotS. Players who take the game seriously and want to make it their living have to accept some "imbalances" that will be inherent in the game. Relying on Blizzard to patch everything that isn't obviously broken is a mentality that is a detriment to any progamers career.
Photographer@shindags || twitch.tv/shindigs
Mobius_1
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom2763 Posts
September 07 2011 02:59 GMT
#14
On September 07 2011 11:08 thedeadhaji wrote:
To be frank, Blizzard's responsibilities are first and foremost to its shareholders.

Then we consider what aspects of their operations need to be refined in order to better serve their shareholders. If serving the progamers properly adds to their bottom line, then Blizzard by extension has a responsibility to the programers (as a result of having a responsibility to their shareholders).

Blizzard is a public corporation and I think the topic (unfortunately) needs to be seen in this light.


I don't Blizzard fully realises the positive externalities that ESPORTS bring to their operations. People see Starcraft, people buy Starcraft. Thus, balancing the game will benefit their bottom line if it makes for better ESPORTS. Moreover, they are hoping to sell two more expansions, so they best make sure the game is good enough for fans to at least keep faith until those are released.

(Or at least that's how I want Blizz to feel so they do what is needed )
Starleague Forever. RIP KT Violet~
Wren
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States745 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-07 03:52:05
September 07 2011 03:50 GMT
#15
As a low level Zerg, I have absolutely no ground to say so, but it doesn't seem like Protoss have had their rediscovery yet. Despite a huge number of patches, Protoss play today is basically the same as it has been. There are small differences, but general ideas like "get a ton of sentries early, then use gas for other stuff later" haven't changed at all. Contrast that to the other pissed-on species, Zerg, who have undergone a nearly complete transformation since the new year, and it seems valid to say that there are under-explored tactics that could be more effective (not a consoling statement, but it's the same thing Zergs were told when we were qq-ing).

Now, this doesn't address the core of your points, but it's about as much as I can say constructively. I agree that Protoss is an incomplete design. There are a number of glaring design flaws and gameplay holes that must be fixed before players can truly be happy with the race and have good fun playing them.

I also agree that Protoss is underpowered at the moment, though cannot say if that is because of deficient strategies or inadequate tools (units/buildings/abilities). About the tools, we must be patient. It is only Blizzard that can fix it, and while their pace is discouraging, the fact that we're promised two entire expansions leaves me hopeful that the game will get there.

[...maybe I can get my lurker and scourge too! :D]
We're here! We're queer! We don't want any more bears!
Sonikhawk121
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States21 Posts
September 07 2011 05:06 GMT
#16
On September 07 2011 11:08 thedeadhaji wrote:
To be frank, Blizzard's responsibilities are first and foremost to its shareholders.

Then we consider what aspects of their operations need to be refined in order to better serve their shareholders. If serving the progamers properly adds to their bottom line, then Blizzard by extension has a responsibility to the programers (as a result of having a responsibility to their shareholders).

Blizzard is a public corporation and I think the topic (unfortunately) needs to be seen in this light.


I agree. Blizzard definitely should put the shareholders' interests first. They aren't obligated to do anything for the pros, but it would be wise of them to get as much feedback on balance from people that play the game for a living. I mean, even if they ignored the advice, they could do more to show they are receiving and not just disregarding the input. That being said, again, they don't have an obligation to do so, but they can and should do so out of a courtesy to their "Larger" and more widespread customers that might have a larger influence than just some average guy playing from home. It would just make sense since progaming probably isn't hurting Starcraft, but it's making it more popular.
StiCkyRiCe30 7:56 pm (7:56:40 PM): your status is all wrong (7:56:44 PM): its SC, then HW (7:56:44 PM): lol
crocodile
Profile Joined February 2011
United States615 Posts
September 07 2011 05:15 GMT
#17
The problem with blaming blizzard for doing nothing about balance is that players solve strategies that appear to be 'imba' over time. People said infestors are imba in zvt, but then terranss learned to abuse the ridiculously op ghosts (yeah I said it: personal ladder experience, also watch july vs mvp g2).

Professional players became pros knowing the game is not yet balanced and probably wont be for some time.
Master League Terran. Huge fan of Quantic Gaming and ROOTDestiny
TumbaSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States78 Posts
September 07 2011 05:29 GMT
#18
On September 07 2011 14:15 crocodile wrote:
The problem with blaming blizzard for doing nothing about balance is that players solve strategies that appear to be 'imba' over time. People said infestors are imba in zvt, but then terranss learned to abuse the ridiculously op ghosts (yeah I said it: personal ladder experience, also watch july vs mvp g2).

Professional players became pros knowing the game is not yet balanced and probably wont be for some time.


But that is a slippery slope. Because what is the line? KA was removed, instead of giving time to adapt. 4 gate timing was nerfed instead of giving more time to adapt. Pylon radius, Blink timing, flux veins. All of these things may seem small, but add them up and it's quite a hit. Now you say well since I don't play that race Blizzard was justified in those changes, and in return someone could argue that infestors are still imba. Its a revolving door.

This all leads to my point. If Blizzard would openly communicate it would cut out 75% of the BS. Be honest with the community. Engage in discussion on the state of the game (again not the show).
Adebisi
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1637 Posts
September 07 2011 05:34 GMT
#19
Blizzard of course has a responsibility, however I don't think any pro-gamer is actually hitting the skill ceiling (or even really that close to it) so there really isn't much room to complain.
TumbaSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States78 Posts
September 07 2011 06:05 GMT
#20
On September 07 2011 14:34 Adebisi wrote:
Blizzard of course has a responsibility, however I don't think any pro-gamer is actually hitting the skill ceiling (or even really that close to it) so there really isn't much room to complain.


I don't think the actual issue is with Balance. Rather Blizzards approach to it. It seems like the progamers are frustrated to an extent. Nobody is playing the game close to perfect as Artosis says, so then why nerf/buff anything. B/C there is a line, and it's a fuzzy one. It doesn't have to be that way.
Adebisi
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1637 Posts
September 07 2011 07:24 GMT
#21
So, what do you advocate? You just want Blizzard to be more transparent about how they plan to patch the game? I don't see how that will change anything. The fact is there are two expansions coming, and so there is a very long road until this game will ever be stable, until two years after Legacy of the Void, people just need to roll with the punches and play the hand they've been dealt.

Look at how much IdrA talked about wanting to switch race, and now, with only relatively minor balance changes, look how P is on the short end of the stick.
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
September 07 2011 08:24 GMT
#22
On September 07 2011 16:24 Adebisi wrote:
So, what do you advocate? You just want Blizzard to be more transparent about how they plan to patch the game? I don't see how that will change anything. The fact is there are two expansions coming, and so there is a very long road until this game will ever be stable, until two years after Legacy of the Void, people just need to roll with the punches and play the hand they've been dealt.

Look at how much IdrA talked about wanting to switch race, and now, with only relatively minor balance changes, look how P is on the short end of the stick.


We should call that the artosis effect:
Artosis plays Zerg, Zerg are the weakest race.
Artosis switches to Protoss, Protoss are the weakest race.
Artosis should switch to Terran :p

Blizzard is definatly talking to progamers, though they are not doing it openly because a lot of progamers don't want to talk openly about balance as to not produce drama and they only talk to those who they think are able to think calmly about the game.
Do you want IdrA to balance the game?
Or do you want some progamer quoting the private suggestions of another progamer from the suggested private forum because he doesn't agree, doesn't like the other player and wants attention?
No, AFAIK many progamers have their channels to blizzard and they are using them, they just don't want publicity/drama.

Blizzard is doing a good job balancing the game without breaking it and they give players time to find a solution themselves. If they would always patch the game immedatly it would happen a lot that they then find out that it was actually not that big of a deal and the change actually made the game imbalanced in the other direction.

I don't agree with every patch, but in general, the game is now a lot more balanced than one year ago and i think it would only need a tiny change to change the protoss situation again (though i think if you give them a little more time, protoss can solve the problems without balance change).
TumbaSC
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States78 Posts
September 07 2011 08:37 GMT
#23
On September 07 2011 16:24 Adebisi wrote:
So, what do you advocate? You just want Blizzard to be more transparent about how they plan to patch the game? I don't see how that will change anything. The fact is there are two expansions coming, and so there is a very long road until this game will ever be stable, until two years after Legacy of the Void, people just need to roll with the punches and play the hand they've been dealt.

Look at how much IdrA talked about wanting to switch race, and now, with only relatively minor balance changes, look how P is on the short end of the stick.


I'm saying yes I am an advocate of more transparency, open communication with players and community, and pro active solutions to issues.

I have come to expect a lot of Blizzard. They make great games, but the fail in certain instances where it just doesn't make any sense.

Multi viewer support for replays for one. How much easier would that make our lives as casters Adabisi? Casting these MLG replays with a co-caster AND an obs is near impossible to keep synced up*. Yet we do it because we are committed to putting out the best product we can. That seems to be more than Blizzard has been doing.


As a consumer, a fan, and an eSports enthusiast I hold Blizzard to a higher standard. They are an extremely profitable company with many resources. To simply accept that I have to wait to purchase the next expansion in hopes of a stable game doesn't sit well with me. Not when there are available solutions to the issue.

I could be wrong here. I would LOVE for a Blizzard employee to say no Tumba, no community, it's not that easy. SC2 doesn't have the budget for that. Etc Etc. It's the total lack of communication that is insult on top of injury.

Bottom line is with more communication it would be a better experience from the Pro's to the Joe's. I think it would have a positive impact on a community full of cynics.

I feel that if the guys at the SC2 team at Blizzard where passionate these priorities would be fixed. But I don't know, cause we are all in the dark.


*For those of you that don't know, when you start a replay and a friend starts a replay at the exact same time on occasion (more often than not) even though you started at the same time one will get faster over time (set at the same speed) causing a desync.
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27148 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-07 08:42:15
September 07 2011 08:41 GMT
#24
Blizzard will do its best, and then the community will try to make up the slack through map design. BW achieved it's parity though accepted map design guidelines that created a fair chance for each race. One only has to look at the difference between blizzard maps and pro maps in BW to see that. Of course, with two more expansions coming there is a long way to go before we can do that.
ModeratorGodfather
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
September 07 2011 14:51 GMT
#25
On September 07 2011 17:41 Manifesto7 wrote:
Blizzard will do its best, and then the community will try to make up the slack through map design. BW achieved it's parity though accepted map design guidelines that created a fair chance for each race. One only has to look at the difference between blizzard maps and pro maps in BW to see that. Of course, with two more expansions coming there is a long way to go before we can do that.

Yes, absolutely agree.
Even with good maps though, it's hard to 100% balance anything.
In BW there was tons of imba shit but because people were so used to it, it wasn't considered imba anymore, just difficult to deal with.
It is frustrating as hell to see esports history being made and hundreds of thousands of dollars being won when we kinda know that the playing field may not have been entirely fair.
tdynasty
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada220 Posts
September 07 2011 16:21 GMT
#26
Im glad to read this post today.

There are some points i've been saying about blizzard for a few years.
For me personally this problem started a long long time ago during Burning Crusade.
Back then WoW was in full tilt. And balance was something of an ongoing process.

But here's where I had alot of critisim and problems with Blizzard as game creators.
When they released Wrath of the Lich King. There were several "broken" mechanics.

But the strannnnngest thing. Was it took me just a few minutes to clue in and say to myself
"wtf man are you shitting me... why the fuck would they do etc etc"

It really felt like, blizzard had no clue what or how the game is played.
I mean, let's look at death knights. They gave them "tank abilities" which ended up being so strong, it took several nerfs to "balance" those moves. But the bottom line, ANYONE who know the game inside and out, instantly recognized the overpowered class mechanics.

Only after hundreds of thousands of complaits did things change.

About SC2.
When the beta was first released. The game had promise, you know....
But then you buy the game. You realized it's the beta.. Nothing new. Nothing ....

Almost all together B.Net 2.0 was a giant disapointment.
So the second thing I looked at. The map editor.
The map editor is along the lines of horrible.

Being an expert in the sc1 and wc3 editor. Why the fuck, is the sc2 editor so hard to understand.
Not only is it hard to comprehend, it's hard to navigate and find what you're looking for.
Popup windows are ... not pop-up windows but pin windows. (which are horribly hard to properly use)

Since the very first day I bought SC2. I felt like it was very very very very very underdeveloped.
Even with all it's upsides.

The game itself is not terrible.
But everything around the game IS!!
IT IS! IT'S SHIT!

The thing that bothers me, and still does. Is blizzard has this ... GIANT niche they can exploit.
They have one of the most loyal and hardcore fanbase of all gaming companies.

But instead of giving us golden age game (amazing Graphics + years of gameplay enhancement)
We get this bronze age.... game.

To me what speaks Volumes, is the Korean reception to SC2. At first, it seemed like it was a legit follow up to sc1.
But then after exposure I came to realize SC2 is not anywhere near close to be being as big in Korean as sc1.

I asked myself why?
The crowd, blizzard failed to make a game. That pleased the crowd. A non loyal fan of blizzard would probably not really like the product he bought.

It took some time for me to get into sc2. I had too play for a few months before it grew on me.

But honestly..

Blizzard owed it to all of it's fans to give us everything they had. To give us more then we expected.
And man they failed hardcore.

I read 1 argument that the stockholders are it's reponsibility...
Well here's an argument okay. WoW made billions of free money with subscriptions.
But what did the community get in return for all it's donations?
Hardly anything. Slow additional content. Constant class changes (really shows balance problems when you need to continuously adjust spells)

The thing is, the community IS blizzards backbone. Their games without it's fanbase are worthless.
Blizzard never thought to look into WHY people loved their games.
At the time of each new game until sc2. The games had Game breaking new concepts.
the multi player experience was perhaps flawed at times. But it was fun!

The people at blizzard need a real awakening about how disapointing there past few products have been.


I also agree that blizzard has very little communication with it's community.
On this part I actually don't blame blizzard. Hearing all the crying about imbalance really does get annoying.

How are you suppose to work with (this unit is too strong)...
Okay well. We can't just nerf all the strong units so they're shit...
Wtf is the point of even having strong units then?

I think the real way of balancing the game is too add new upgrades/units that require more skill and rely less on strength in numbers.


Honestly. Blizzard is lacking ambition to be someting more then it is.
They seem content with what they've accomplished. The Teams at that company are far undermanned for what the fans expect.

It's just not a winning situation for anyone.
It's sad really. Blizzard really has potential to be God Like. They were on that path for quite some time. But fell off it and never got back on it.
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