So here's the build I'm using, which I've broken down a la Day[9] mode. I got it from replays of Thorzain vs. Idra at MLG Columbus, where Thorzain defeated Idra. I figured with credentials like that, it must be good.

Thorzain’s TvZ

Group 1
Buildings
2 Rax – 12/19 & 12/19

Group 2
Buildings
Command Center – 5:00
2 Refineries – Build after CC goes down
2 Factories – 6:15 & 6:53
3rd Rax – 9:12
Engi Bay
Armory
2 Refineries
4 Turrets
Starport (After Thor starts)
Units
Constant SCVs
Lots of Marines
6 BF Hellions, 2 Tanks then Thor, then back to Tanks

Keep Hellions alive. Push out when you have 5 tanks. 1/0 inf/veh.

Group 3
Buildings
Command Center
4 Rax
Units
Tanks/Thors
Some SCVs
Constant Marines

Somewhat unfortunately, Thorzain beats Idra before really getting into a lategame, so I'm a little in the dark on specifics after this, but standard TvZ metagame seems fine.

The idea behind is to put pressure on Zerg during all stages, starting with a 2 rax bunker rush and following up with blue flame hellion harrass, culminating in a big tank/hellion/marine push, with the goal of denying the Zerg third.

So, here's a breakdown of 2 TvZ games I played today using this build, which have a connected lesson.

Game 1 - Shakura's Plateau

The game starts normally, and I get my opponent to cancel his hatch. This is somewhat unfortunate I feel, as if I'd waited a second longer for my marines to run up the ramp I might have gotten to actually kill the fully made hatch. I do make the mistake of running my marines up into his main and try to run around his spinecrawlers to hopefully kill some drones, but he has roaches ready and kills 5 marines without taking any losses himself.

After that he actually just walks his roaches past my bunkers because of their sneaky yet poor placement, and attacks into my natural. His attack causes me to pull SCVs to defend, basically negating any damage I did by making him delay his expo.

Even though I clean up the attack, the supply count tells the story,

and even though the game ended up being over 30 minutes long, What I'm going to take away from this is to quit while I'm ahead. He had to cancel his expo, mine is up, that's a huge lead in TvZ, and I should just go home.

Game 2 - Nerazim Altar

First off, I really like this map. The third is a little harder to take, but I like the open spaces, and accessible distances. I think this map is much better for T than Z.

So, as I begin, I scout that he has gone pool first, and (though I don't know it yet) is getting a really early roach warren. I debate, mentally, what to do, and decide that since the ramp is a little far from the main hatch and he doesn't have a OL spotting the ramp, I can probably get a bunker up and some marines to defend to delay his expo.

As you can see, he pulls 5 drones and his queen to try and put an end to it, killing 1 scv, but my marines show up to save the day. I then set up a hard contain, with 3 bunkers, and take my expo, refineries, etc.

This time I learn my lesson. I figure since he has roaches, he doesn't have ling speed, so i can simply kill the slow lings and outrun the roaches if i make a break for it. Besides, it's 9 minutes into the game, and i have a 5 worker lead, 2 orbitals where he has no 2nd, and my infrastructure is already well on its way, so I make a mad dash for it with the Zerg army on my heels! I manage to salvage the bunkers, kill all the slow lings, and get 13 marines out, losing 3 during the retreat QQ.

He then throws down his expo while massing units, and goes for a counter, trying to circumvent my 2 bunkers somewhat by taking down the destructible rocks near the natural.

Because I'm terrible, I'm floating 800 minerals (lolz!) so I counter (rather cleverly I think) by throwing down a CC and rax to block this new entrance. Meanwhile, I keep pumping 5 marines at a time and 2 hellions at a time while researching blue flame.

This holds him off, and i switch to tank production, while continuing to expand my infrastructure and such.

At this point, my supply begins to skyrocket, as well as my tech, and when the final battle comes, it's pure hulk-smashery. I didn't even have a chance to bring up my siege tanks lol.

So, lesson learned. Terran 2 base is stronger than Zerg 1 base. Crazy huh? From now on, when I get the chance to delay his expo, I'm going to do so, then go home and defend to consolidate my advantage.

I hope you enjoyed this post! Please feel free to post feedback for how I can improve it.

-Fenris

TickTockBoom

Canada185 Posts

August 05 2011 01:32 GMT

I gotta say, the CC and Rax block totally caught me off guard lol.. that was pretty creative I guess, but i'm just plat what do I know right?

Well, some improvements are to definitely add small text under your pictures.. like you see in news, where they have a gigantic picture and subtext under it.

Also, if you want some tips for your gaming, I would really suggest going marauders when he's going fast roaches, because that armor just tears apart a pure marine build.

Only IMO of course, if there's a higher ranked player who would like to prove me wrong with evidence please try. :D

Cramsy

Australia1100 Posts

August 05 2011 03:40 GMT

great read

Having a bunch of trouble with tvz lately (plat) It just feels like zerg gets a free third and if i try pressure then mutas lol allover my base and I need 5078 turrets or I get surrounded on my way to attack :/

Itsmedudeman

United States19229 Posts

August 05 2011 05:37 GMT

You shouldn't be so strict with your build. Several things happened that should change your build order and give you an easier win. They went roaches and you canceled their expo. You shouldn't tech into blue flame at this point but instead go for siege tanks or even quick medivacs. If they cancel their expo, and get ling speed without roaches, then you can go helions. I just don't see the point in teching into blue flame when you have no answer for the roaches yet.

@TickTockBoom - Meh, you can add in a few marauders but I wouldn't start adding more than 1 tech lab. You can defend any roach early game pressure with a bunker and repair, and if you go too many marauders they'll just make lings. Marines can do fine once you get tanks or medivacs.

Emporio

United States3069 Posts

August 05 2011 05:50 GMT

How did that first game go for 30minutes if you had 2 scv's and 100 minerals in the bank?

TickTockBoom

Canada185 Posts

August 05 2011 05:53 GMT

Yeah, back when I actually laddered as terran I pretty much everytime when I saw roaches made one tech lab for a few marauders so they would stop with the silly roach harass, also yeah the build needs to be flexible since not every opponent plays the same way, learned this in BW

. So yeah, be prepared to change abit, like if you see a fast spire you're not going to... blue flame

Fenrisulfr_Fang

United States5 Posts

August 05 2011 08:21 GMT

@ticktockboom - I'll try to figure out how to add some captions for the pictures if that makes it more readable. I probably could have gotten some marauders like others suggested, since I throw down a 3rd rax after my expo, and add a tech lab (for upgrades) and 2 reactors anyway. Good points there.

@cramsy - that's exactly the problem i've been having too. When I've had success, I've found that it's been through regular pressure while trying to minimize losses. The common strategy seems to be to make the Zerg make units instead of drones, to slow down his economy while you build up your infrastructure.

As far as the mutas go, if you are pressuring him, he can't rush to mutas, he'll get them at a normal time, and he shouldn't be able to make 10+ mutas as soon as his spire finishes. Also, you'll note that i plan 4 missile turrets into my 2nd group of buildings. That's 2 for each mineral line, which should negate if he sneaks them straight over to your base or gets them a little early, and you'll have marines and a thor to help ward of early harrass attempts. I also like to push as quickly as I can once I see those mutas, because I know he's committed a fair amount of resources to them, and there's a chance I can do some serious damage by forcing him to use his mutas to defend, which is not an ideal situation for him when I'm pumping 5 marines at a time and have a thor or 2 for flavor. This push needs to be tempered by what the others have pointed out, that you need a good enough composition to push out. some hellions in your mix if he's got lings, or marauders if he's going roaches.

@itsmedudeman - I think you're absolutely right about needing to be flexible. I always have the option of adding another factory for hellion production if I want them later to harrass, but at the point where he has tons of roaches and is only on 2 base it's not really useful to have so many hellions. I have found them to be great for getting into position with tanks once he has a third up I can harrass.

One problem I have is simply a flaw in my play, where I get too focused on my mech units and forget my starport, and then just don't add it lol. in cases where the Zerg gets early roaches I can get the starport and get vikings to kill overlords and medivacs to be mobile and harrass instead of the blue flame hellions.

@emporio - The reason that first game went on to 37 minutes is because of the huge advantage that having 2 orbitals gave me economically, since he still didn't have his natural up at the point he lost all his roaches. I just threw up 2 bunkers at the front and turtled while I rebuilt my economy, so he wasn't so far ahead of me. Plus, my opponent (like me) was only platinum, so I'm sure there were mistakes he made as well. It ended (as my TvZ losses normally do) with a big broodlord push that I wasn't prepared for, and didn't have time to make vikings and ghosts before he killed me.

Thanks everyone for the comments! I truly appreciate them.

Please or register to reply.

Live Events Refresh