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On July 30 2011 21:52 Count9 wrote:
100% agree, need an auto ban system anytime someone posts Bee-suit's name or picture, or votes for him in a poll, this is getting fucking ridiculous.
I think banning is a tad too harsh, certainly a warning is needed.
I don't mind if this word appears 2-3 times a thread, or so, but currently, it's an overused and misunderstood word
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It's not like this is new or special phenomenon, it just happens to be tied to an obscure term while in other fields it's the next mj or the next bear/tiger, pele etc and so on and so forth. Although come to think of it banning people on sports forums that use jordan other than talking about jordan himself, especially in regards to 15 year olds would be nice.
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I can't believe that it actually grinds my gears that people throw that word around. For me there is 1 Bonjwa and thats Savior.
There might be one in sc2, but c'mon guys lets give it more than a year.
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On July 30 2011 19:32 stafu wrote:So it's okay that BoxeR was bonjwa when the game was in it's infant stage and very unrefined, but not okay for Nestea when SC2 is young? and if this has something specifically to do with savior, that's even more sad. For what it's worth, I'm a BW fan through and through, but this is just ridiculous pedantic elitist whining, 100%. ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images/thumb/7/75/5Bonjwa.png/640px-5Bonjwa.png) Aditionally, BoxeR's reign didn't last for that long. Nestea will be coming up on similar length in the near future. All I hear is wah fucking wah.
What reign does Nestea have? Boxer played against the very BEST to become the best. Who has Nestea played against? MC? Nope. MVP? Lost in a bo5. Instead he beat Inca in the worst finals in the history of finals and Losira who is a teammate (teamkills always get weird), and MKP who tried to scv-allin every game.
Nestea's accomplishments are great but it isn't anything like what Boxer did. Boxer was the ONLY person who won consecutive OSL titles until it was broken 8 years later. Boxer was a pioneer in a game that didn't have a clear direction like SC2 has.
I just cannot acknowledge Nestea as a bonjwa right now. I have not seen the invincibility Savior and Flash portrays. He is a very, very consistent player playing with a bunch of failed BW gamers that are inconsistent in SC2. He is the best, but not a bonjwa. Not yet at least.
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I thought you were going to say "all-in" or "cheese" or "coinflip"... three terms I really wish people would stop using, especially after a zerg loss, you can see all 3 of those pop up in various combinations.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49484 Posts
usage of the B-word incorrectly should give people warnings/2day bans.
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i think its more impressive for nestea too win 3 gsls so early in sc2s life since sc2, is infinitely more fragile than sc1. i only came onto the bw scene during the jaedong vs flash rivalry so i dont really know the meaning of the word, but if nestea gets his 4th and 5th i'd say hes definetly there.
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On July 30 2011 22:14 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 19:32 stafu wrote:So it's okay that BoxeR was bonjwa when the game was in it's infant stage and very unrefined, but not okay for Nestea when SC2 is young? and if this has something specifically to do with savior, that's even more sad. For what it's worth, I'm a BW fan through and through, but this is just ridiculous pedantic elitist whining, 100%. Aditionally, BoxeR's reign didn't last for that long. Nestea will be coming up on similar length in the near future. All I hear is wah fucking wah. What reign does Nestea have? Boxer played against the very BEST to become the best. Who has Nestea played against? MC? Nope. MVP? Lost in a bo5. Instead he beat Inca in the worst finals in the history of finals and Losira who is a teammate (teamkills always get weird), and MKP who tried to scv-allin every game. Nestea's accomplishments are great but it isn't anything like what Boxer did. Boxer was the ONLY person who won consecutive OSL titles until it was broken 8 years later. Boxer was a pioneer in a game that didn't have a clear direction like SC2 has. I just cannot acknowledge Nestea as a bonjwa right now. I have not seen the invincibility Savior and Flash portrays. He is a very, very consistent player playing with a bunch of failed BW gamers that are inconsistent in SC2. He is the best, but not a bonjwa. Not yet at least.
Hey! Don't shit on MKP, nestea vs MKP was the only single not-one sided rape GSL final.
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On July 30 2011 18:59 GTR wrote:i'm ranting because i think it's time we put an end to this. you all know which one i'm talking about. i'm sick and tired of seeing everyone throwing the word around randomly. as a poster said it on here Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 18:46 Canucklehead wrote:
Well my bw elitist friend said koreans stopped using the (term) years ago and only foreigners use that term now.
He told me it started and stopped with Savior, then retroactively applied it to boxer, nada, etc. Then after that they don't use (that term) anymore. Flash is called God Young Ho."
can we all just leave it to rest? especially when applying it to the sc2 scene. i'd rather see everyone using ridiculous words like 'goat' or 'best mother fucking player ever', rather than that specific term which defined savior's (and retrospectively, boxer, nada and oov)'s spells of dominance. good grief.
You are so baller <3
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To me this reads as whining.
I expected more than this argueing over some arbitrary title. Who the hell cares if a bunch of people consider Nestea a bonjwa?!
It's definition makes it a subjective term. You might as well all be argueing about whether or not the color blue is pretty or not.
Who are you to decide not yet Setzer? You seem to try to draw an objective conclusion out of nothing but subjective data and an arbitrary line. Sitting there and pointing your finger like only you decide strikes me as straight up absurd, especially considering the extremely large subjective factor in this matter.
In my opinion this is not a matter of who should be called a bonjwa, simply because that cannot be objectively determined.
For all I care you call your silver league buddy a bonjwa. Let people compliment other people, I don't see a reason to complain about that, other than to straight up be an asshole.
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Shit... That graph of iloveoov is so sick. I hope he comes back in sc2 <3
I'm not really bothered by this people say so much stupid stuff this does not stand out for me. Always with the comparisons. Broodwar was like this sc2 is like that and blablabla.
Different times are always different times and different games will be different games.
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On July 30 2011 22:36 BLinD-RawR wrote:
usage of the B-word incorrectly should give people warnings/2day bans.
Haha, I concur. I remember reading (a long time ago) a post or thread of some sort stating that you shouldn't use that word... haven't used that word in a post ever (at least from what I remember).
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![[image loading]](http://www.hellomagazine.com/imagenes/profiles//jon-bon-jovi/352-jon-bon-jovi-pb.jpg) ?
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As a preface, I belive 100% that people should stop jumping to conclusions in such a big game-- whether it be an article claiming that the StarCraft 2 scene is a farce and should be, and eventually will be dominated by the Koreans, or it is any kind of talk about balance, I am usually a big proponent of just letting things play out.
But in this case, I want people to look at not only the limited results that IMNesTea has produced in professional play, but look at the gameplay. I say do not only look to the three GSL victories NesTea has, nor even that two of those victories were 4-0 finishes, nor even that, in the most recent win, NesTea didn't drop a single map throughout the whole tournament. NesTea has, in the finals of a GSL, beat all three races, and in these games, he is out-classing his opponent.
NesTea didn't cheese InCa and LosirA 4 times in a row, he beat them straight up, showcasing exactly why he is the best in the world, exactly why I have never bet against him in LiquiBet, exactly why-- and I feel not only justification, but pride in the next six words I will write-- he is the first StarCraft2 Bonjwa.
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On July 30 2011 22:14 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 19:32 stafu wrote:So it's okay that BoxeR was bonjwa when the game was in it's infant stage and very unrefined, but not okay for Nestea when SC2 is young? and if this has something specifically to do with savior, that's even more sad. For what it's worth, I'm a BW fan through and through, but this is just ridiculous pedantic elitist whining, 100%. Aditionally, BoxeR's reign didn't last for that long. Nestea will be coming up on similar length in the near future. All I hear is wah fucking wah. What reign does Nestea have? Boxer played against the very BEST to become the best. Who has Nestea played against? MC? Nope. MVP? Lost in a bo5. Instead he beat Inca in the worst finals in the history of finals and Losira who is a teammate (teamkills always get weird), and MKP who tried to scv-allin every game. Nestea's accomplishments are great but it isn't anything like what Boxer did. Boxer was the ONLY person who won consecutive OSL titles until it was broken 8 years later. Boxer was a pioneer in a game that didn't have a clear direction like SC2 has. I just cannot acknowledge Nestea as a bonjwa right now. I have not seen the invincibility Savior and Flash portrays. He is a very, very consistent player playing with a bunch of failed BW gamers that are inconsistent in SC2. He is the best, but not a bonjwa. Not yet at least.
I'm not saying Nestea should be called a bonjwa right now, I don't think he is either. What I think is ridiculous is the idea that the term should NEVER be used in SC2. It's just a fucking word anyway. Right now this is just a big whinefest over a word just because of elitist attitudes towards SC2, and the argument about SC2 being young is pointless because it will always be 'young' to the elitists, as BW will always be older. SC2 is much more refined after its first year than SC1 was after its first year, but that seems to be completely ignored.
I've been following BW since BoxeR won WCG in 2001, but just because I like BW doesn't mean I'm going to pretend SC2 is terrible and ignore all the amazing stuff its doing for esports on a global level. I'm just sick to death of BW elitists closing their eyes, calling people who switch from BW to SC2 'traitors' and all the other shit that is constantly going on in the BW forums on TL lately.
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On July 30 2011 23:57 mbr2321 wrote:As a preface, I belive 100% that people should stop jumping to conclusions in such a big game-- whether it be an article claiming that the StarCraft 2 scene is a farce and should be, and eventually will be dominated by the Koreans, or it is any kind of talk about balance, I am usually a big proponent of just letting things play out. But in this case, I want people to look at not only the limited results that IMNesTea has produced in professional play, but look at the gameplay. I say do not only look to the three GSL victories NesTea has, nor even that two of those victories were 4-0 finishes, nor even that, in the most recent win, NesTea didn't drop a single map throughout the whole tournament. NesTea has, in the finals of a GSL, beat all three races, and in these games, he is out-classing his opponent. NesTea didn't cheese InCa and LosirA 4 times in a row, he beat them straight up, showcasing exactly why he is the best in the world, exactly why I have never bet against him in LiquiBet, exactly why-- and I feel not only justification, but pride in the next six words I will write-- he is the first StarCraft2 Bonjwa.
On July 31 2011 00:02 stafu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 22:14 setzer wrote:On July 30 2011 19:32 stafu wrote:So it's okay that BoxeR was bonjwa when the game was in it's infant stage and very unrefined, but not okay for Nestea when SC2 is young? and if this has something specifically to do with savior, that's even more sad. For what it's worth, I'm a BW fan through and through, but this is just ridiculous pedantic elitist whining, 100%. Aditionally, BoxeR's reign didn't last for that long. Nestea will be coming up on similar length in the near future. All I hear is wah fucking wah. What reign does Nestea have? Boxer played against the very BEST to become the best. Who has Nestea played against? MC? Nope. MVP? Lost in a bo5. Instead he beat Inca in the worst finals in the history of finals and Losira who is a teammate (teamkills always get weird), and MKP who tried to scv-allin every game. Nestea's accomplishments are great but it isn't anything like what Boxer did. Boxer was the ONLY person who won consecutive OSL titles until it was broken 8 years later. Boxer was a pioneer in a game that didn't have a clear direction like SC2 has. I just cannot acknowledge Nestea as a bonjwa right now. I have not seen the invincibility Savior and Flash portrays. He is a very, very consistent player playing with a bunch of failed BW gamers that are inconsistent in SC2. He is the best, but not a bonjwa. Not yet at least. I'm not saying Nestea should be called a bonjwa right now, I don't think he is either. What I think is ridiculous is the idea that the term should NEVER be used in SC2. It's just a fucking word anyway. Right now this is just a big whinefest over a word just because of elitist attitudes towards SC2, and the argument about SC2 being young is pointless because it will always be 'young' to the elitists, as BW will always be older. SC2 is much more refined after its first year than SC1 was after its first year, but that seems to be completely ignored. I've been following BW since BoxeR won WCG in 2001, but just because I like BW doesn't mean I'm going to pretend SC2 is terrible and ignore all the amazing stuff its doing for esports on a global level. I'm just sick to death of BW elitists closing their eyes, calling people who switch from BW to SC2 'traitors' and all the other shit that is constantly going on in the BW forums on TL lately.
Neither of you guys understood the OP. The point is that the title Bonjwa grew from  sAviOr and is specific to BW. It isn't elitism, more ... grammar. Zergbong is Bonjwa in an SC2 context makes as much sense as Zergbong is Bodonkawonk.
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Something that's really bothering me is the sick sc1 "fanboyism" that's going in pretty much every forum not in the sc2 section, honestly it feels like you're not even a real human if you haven't been into the sc1 scene, with words like "sc2 kiddie" being used to casually, and anytime starcraft 2 is even mentioned, someone quickly links to old sc1 profiles of Nestea and MC to show how terrible they are at a REAL game (Obviously starcraft 2 is a shit game if the top players can't play a completely different game!)
Let sc2 fans call people the "B-word" if they want to, it's dosen't hurt anyone, they simply pay respect to a person with a word used in a game of the same genre.
Anyone into video games must know how it feels to be alienated and looked down upon by people for not liking what they like, just because you love starcraft 1 dosen't mean to have to rampage all over the place yelling how good a game it is and how starcraft 2 is horrible (And opposite),i understand that Teamliquid has been a website focusing entirely on starcraft 1 for years, and you feel like strangers are moving into the neightbourhood,but please leave people to their own buisness, can't we all just get along?
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I, for one, prefer the term "banjo".
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Giving respect to someone who's only been the consensus #1 player for a 4-5 non consecutive months in a year old game is disrespecting players who have been the undoubted number one for much over a year in a 10 year gold game. It's not insulting to SC2 -- as long as it's good enough to stick around it will eventually reach this kind of history and designation -- but the term was scantly used on the absolutely most exceptional players. only 5 in 11 years of play. In another year or so, if there's someone who's clearly been over the rest the whole time, you can start using it with proper context.
It's not because SC2 is too "bad" for the term, it's because SC2 is too young. If BW were to do it as fast as SC2 fans are, then Giyom would've been a bonjwa, because he was practically unbeatable when it first came out. Let the wine breathe, mates.
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EPT
