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UGH I HATE LADDER
All I get is cheese, cheese and more friggin cheese. Like can't people learn to play games longer than 8 mins?
Just fustrated is all. I have been doing customs the last 6 or so months. Eventually getting to a level where I can easily take games off of mid master's and High diamond players. So I'm pretty confident that I should be able to get to masters. I was wrong.
Now my rank before I started laddering was Bronze. But taking games was easy and I won something like 10-15 straight and was promoted to silver. Then I easily took more games off and eventually was promoted to sHigh gold. So thats where I sit right now. Still in gold but now facing high silver players who eaither cannon rush, 6 pool, or Marine all in me. I was even facing high platinum players before I kept getting allin'd
I play extremely safe now. But that doesn't seem to work at all. They will come with another allin as soon as I feel like I can expand. I die and am forced to lose.
This fustrates me so much because I know I can play better. I know I can play at a Master's level. But I cannot show that because my rank is Gold and facing high silver players.
Now rage is getting the better of me. I am starting to slam things and break items. I am just letting everything get so fustrated.
Reason being is that I want to be on a competitive level. I want to be able to go to stuff like mlg and big LAN events and play well in them. But what team is going to take a gold player seriously. Thats if I don't get demoted cause of all the cheese.
The funny thing is. I haver a %90 win rate when my matches go beyond the 11-12 min mark on ladder. I can out macro most players and take them out.
Just had to write out my fustrations cause I didn't want to break something. so this blog is my version of breaking something. Just not auctally breaking anything. So sorry for any mispells or anything.
 
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Cheeses are actually a free win if you scout them and react accordingly.
I felt the same as you when back then all Terrans bothered doing was 1 base allins vs Protoss. But even cheeses and allins are valid strategies and you need to learn to beat them.
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If you can take almost all of the long games, just sacrifice late game power for early game safety. Scout with multiple workers for proxies, maximize your map vision, etc.
Part of being a master's level player is holding cheese, which exists at all levels and not just silver. And it will be much better executed the higher you go.
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just scout and learn to defend. The only reason why you get cheesed is because it works. It's an aspect of the game. You can't expect to go into a major tournament and not get cheesed ever.
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I was in the exact same situation for a very long time: winning pretty much every game that I survived past 8 or 9 minutes. Finally I broke the trend by making a conscious decision that I was going to stop losing to stupid shit. I started going pool first almost every game, scouted early and often, and made a point of having spores up unless I was damn certain I wasn't going to need them. It really turned my game around and shifted me from low diamond up to high diamond. The key thing was confidence in the knowledge that I could beat any player I was facing in the late game with superior macro and multitask, even if I didn't have an economic advantage coming out of the midgame. I changed from playing risky and economically to playing safely and scouting a lot, and that's gotten me a long way on the ladder.
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Go back to BW and ladder on iccup. All you need is to get a peruvian in game, scout the middle of the map, find 2 raxes/gateways, win the game, insult him. Or you can just play against zergs when you go in base and see no more than 6 drones.
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take a break from the game a bit, that helped me when I was in a situation like yours
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cheese is part of the metagame. you'll see them even in tournaments used by masters or grandmasters. if you can't defend cheeses by people of those league, then you would belong to there. work on defending the cheeses (i see that you say you play safe, but is it safe enough? find loopholes in your 'safe' playing), then you'll be roughly cheese proof and you can work on working your way up the ladder.
cheers.
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might want to be a little more realistic here. if you can't stop cheeses from silver/gold league players than you're probably not master level material.
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Just practice scouting and reacting to strange builds, because that is what you will see until you reach masters, when all you see is cheese again. Sorry, but it does not really stop. Do not get too discouraged, keep at it.
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im never against cheese. its always 10 standard banelings that run me over or blink stalkers (or i feel like trolling TvT)
btw im in diamond and im in no shape of getting out. Terran is a bitch
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I just bm ppl to stay sane, i mean if i win or lose i shit talk ppl opn ladder becuase its super funny.
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On July 06 2011 15:17 Djagulingu wrote:
Go back to BW and ladder on iccup. All you need is to get a peruvian in game, scout the middle of the map, find 2 raxes/gateways, win the game, insult him. Or you can just play against zergs when you go in base and see no more than 6 drones.
Problem here being, no peruvians play protoss/terran, and they dont 6 pool ever.
its always 3hatch all in massling.
always
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On July 06 2011 16:13 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 15:17 Djagulingu wrote:
Go back to BW and ladder on iccup. All you need is to get a peruvian in game, scout the middle of the map, find 2 raxes/gateways, win the game, insult him. Or you can just play against zergs when you go in base and see no more than 6 drones. Problem here being, no peruvians play protoss/terran, and they dont 6 pool ever. its always 3hatch all in massling. always
That's just my peruvians I guess. I scout the middle of the map in every single non-mirror against peruvians and 50% of the time I see buildings (yeah, it's plural, when I scout, i generally see more than 1 building that can produce units). And I got 5 pooled in a ZvZ against a peruvian as well. That was one of the few games that I didn't 12 hatch. I 9 pooled his 5 pool and won convincingly.
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On July 06 2011 14:47 K3Nyy wrote:
Cheeses are actually a free win if you scout them and react accordingly.
I felt the same as you when back then all Terrans bothered doing was 1 base allins vs Protoss. But even cheeses and allins are valid strategies and you need to learn to beat them.
Plays that have no follow up or any sort of game plan past the initial "cheese" isn't really a strategy, it's just a desperate all in by people who don't know how to handle the mid-late game.
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saying that you play at a masters lvl when you are in gold is probably not accurate..... Also, as long as you do a safe build and see the cheese you get an auto win.
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Yeah... being in gold and claiming to play at a level three ranks above you is a bit counter-productive to improving. Not having a realistic hold on your own skill level definitely works against efforts to improve.
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Sweden80 Posts
On July 06 2011 14:40 masterbreti wrote:
This fustrates me so much because I know I can play better. I know I can play at a Master's level. But I cannot show that because my rank is Gold and facing high silver players.
Waiiiit. Something is wrong here.
Being master =/= I can macro. Being master, is being experienced, which you are not because of losing against (silver level) cheeses. Accept that you're gold and improve on your major flaws instead.
On July 06 2011 16:13 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 15:17 Djagulingu wrote:
Go back to BW and ladder on iccup. All you need is to get a peruvian in game, scout the middle of the map, find 2 raxes/gateways, win the game, insult him. Or you can just play against zergs when you go in base and see no more than 6 drones. Problem here being, no peruvians play protoss/terran, and they dont 6 pool ever. its always 3hatch all in massling. always
I've only encountered like one base lurker rushes, or similar stuff with around 9-11 drones. When they're zerg, of course. Never seen massling. Sneaky peruvians. Now I don't know what to expect anymore.
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On July 06 2011 19:03 Noe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 14:40 masterbreti wrote:
This fustrates me so much because I know I can play better. I know I can play at a Master's level. But I cannot show that because my rank is Gold and facing high silver players. Waiiiit. Something is wrong here.Being master =/= I can macro. Being master, is being experienced, which you are not because of losing against (silver level) cheeses. Accept that you're gold and improve on your major flaws instead. Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 16:13 arb wrote:On July 06 2011 15:17 Djagulingu wrote:
Go back to BW and ladder on iccup. All you need is to get a peruvian in game, scout the middle of the map, find 2 raxes/gateways, win the game, insult him. Or you can just play against zergs when you go in base and see no more than 6 drones. Problem here being, no peruvians play protoss/terran, and they dont 6 pool ever. its always 3hatch all in massling. always I've only encountered like one base lurker rushes, or similar stuff with around 9-11 drones. When they're zerg, of course. Never seen massling. Sneaky peruvians. Now I don't know what to expect anymore.
Well, his macro is obviously masters level, which is a legit argument. I say the same but I'm still a silver level player because of the same reasons as masterbreti (I have games like my opponent is on 90ish food when I get maxed out). But neither of us are "masters level" because we lose to stupid pieces of shit that actual masters level players laugh at. Duh.
On peruvians: At least you know what not to expect: Standard play. Probability of a peruvian player having production buildings in the middle of the map is considerably high. I remember a Sayle vs Kiante incident* happening to me after I decided to play a non-mirror zerg matchup against one of them on La Mancha when La Mancha was among maps of the week in iccup (happened in a melee game).
*Sayle vs Kiante incident is used to express the last game of their latest bo9 all match ups grudge match on La Mancha. Kiante chooses match up as TvP and map as La Mancha and ggs when he learns that he can't build stuff in the middle of La Mancha.
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Sweden80 Posts
On July 06 2011 19:20 Djagulingu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 19:03 Noe wrote:On July 06 2011 14:40 masterbreti wrote:
This fustrates me so much because I know I can play better. I know I can play at a Master's level. But I cannot show that because my rank is Gold and facing high silver players. Waiiiit. Something is wrong here.Being master =/= I can macro. Being master, is being experienced, which you are not because of losing against (silver level) cheeses. Accept that you're gold and improve on your major flaws instead. On July 06 2011 16:13 arb wrote:On July 06 2011 15:17 Djagulingu wrote:
Go back to BW and ladder on iccup. All you need is to get a peruvian in game, scout the middle of the map, find 2 raxes/gateways, win the game, insult him. Or you can just play against zergs when you go in base and see no more than 6 drones. Problem here being, no peruvians play protoss/terran, and they dont 6 pool ever. its always 3hatch all in massling. always I've only encountered like one base lurker rushes, or similar stuff with around 9-11 drones. When they're zerg, of course. Never seen massling. Sneaky peruvians. Now I don't know what to expect anymore. Well, his macro is obviously masters level, which is a legit argument. I say the same but I'm still a silver level player because of the same reasons as masterbreti (I have games like my opponent is on 90ish food when I get maxed out). But neither of us are "masters level" because we lose to stupid pieces of shit that actual masters level players laugh at. Duh.
Everyone can spend their money when they're not being distracted, as they will not be in lower league games if they're not getting cheesed (Think about it, it's not that hard, right?). There is a case of macro when everything is following a nice timing, and you get stuff exactly when you need it, this is master -> GM macro. Not just getting units. Instead of being all-inned at master, they will constantly harass you to get you distracted from macroing, and obviously losing economy (There will be all-ins to, a lot of all-ins).
If you're so comfortable in your macro, don't think about it just yet then. And focus on being stable in your early game. And take macro into your play when you reach an higher level.
On peruvians: At least you know what not to expect: Standard play. Probability of a peruvian player having production buildings in the middle of the map is considerably high. I remember a Sayle vs Kiante incident* happening to me after I decided to play a non-mirror zerg matchup against one of them on La Mancha when La Mancha was among maps of the week in iccup (happened in a melee game).
*Sayle vs Kiante incident is used to express the last game of their latest bo9 all match ups grudge match on La Mancha. Kiante chooses match up as TvP and map as La Mancha and ggs when he learns that he can't build stuff in the middle of La Mancha.
Hehe, yeah. But you don't know what non-standard play they'll throw at you! Nah, just joking. I enjoy aggressive games anyway.
Lol, if you want to play a standard game vs peruvians, go La Mancha and hope they don't know it!
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On July 06 2011 15:53 Kenpachi wrote:
im never against cheese. its always 10 standard banelings that run me over or blink stalkers (or i feel like trolling TvT)
Terran is a bitch
lol same here.
op : if you lose you cheesy shit like youve mentioned, you probably dont belong in masters.
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When I was in Gold the predictability of Terran builds was insanely laughable. I used to joke that no Terran was capable of winning the game after 8 min because all anyone ever did was 3rax and attack at just that time.
If you couldn't hold it off you lost, but I got good at fighting at my ramp and playing towards a macro game. Gave me a lot of wins against Terran afterwards.
Now in Plat the strength of cheap-ish builds is even greater. People's 7RRs come right on time and I don't have my 4gate up, or Terrans 2rax for the auto-win. You just have to either cheese back or learn to scout and deal with these strategies. I did neither - I switched over to team games. There the skill level is drastically worse but the games are highly varied.
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Canada13389 Posts
On July 06 2011 20:24 eu.exodus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2011 15:53 Kenpachi wrote:
im never against cheese. its always 10 standard banelings that run me over or blink stalkers (or i feel like trolling TvT)
Terran is a bitch lol same here. op : if you lose you cheesy shit like youve mentioned, you probably dont belong in masters.
I agree you need to be able to hold cheese. Cheese is what gets me more often than not. If I can take it to the late game I often win. Early and mid game I need to work on :/
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On July 06 2011 14:40 masterbreti wrote:
This fustrates me so much because I know I can play better. I know I can play at a Master's level. But I cannot show that because my rank is Gold and facing high silver players.
If you can't beat cheese in the gold league then there's no way you can beat cheese in the master's league where it's executed SO much better. I'm in gold league too and have a similar record - winning almost everything that isn't cheese and losing to a lot of cheese the first time I see it. It sucks, but it's part of the game. Cheese is very alluring to the newer player because it isn't hard to learn (especially compared to long game strategies) and gets you a lot of wins. If you keep losing to cheese over and over then you're either not playing a lot of games or you're not correctly learning how to deal with it. If you're consistently losing to "bad" players is there any other conclusion than being bad yourself? Embracing this is your first step to improvement!
Now rage is getting the better of me. I am starting to slam things and break items. I am just letting everything get so fustrated.
When a game makes you break something then it's not fun anymore and you need to stop.
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It's funny that you think you won't have to deal with cheese in the Masters League. Didn't Moon 6 pool Huk in GAME 5 OF DREAMHACK? If there's cheese at that level, there will be cheese everywhere.
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You got out of bronze that's already pretty good good luck getting out of gold 
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Honestly I'd rather lose to cheese than 40 minute TvZ to mass corruptor, blord infestor when Z has 1 mining base left. The frustration after a game like that is nothing compared to losing to 4gate.
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EPT
