I recall seeing a picture on "Random pics that make you laugh" that roughly talks about something like this: the old video games are easy at first but the difficulty catches up to the level of frustration near the end. Newer ones have a fairly consistent difficulty level.
Anyways, I was bored like hell tonight, so I decided to try some.... RED ALERT 1! Since EA released the game as freeware, it was very easy to find and download it (I downloaded the Soviet disk). Installing it was very easy, and it ran smoothly on my netbook.
I thought it wouldn't hurt to play the missions. I have actually never played the missions before (even though I kind of touched skirmish mode before), so it's actually a fresh experience for me. However, I did play RA2/RA3 and their respective expansion campaigns before on the greatest difficulty, so I figured that for RA1 I should do the same.
First mission was a joke. Just ordered my paper airplanes to fly around a bit wins the mission. The next a couple were easy too. Then mission 5(?) came, which I have to make a landing on an island and destroy the enemy base there. The only problem? The Soviet navy does not have any sea-to-land weapons! After several saves-and-loads, I managed to assemble six transport ships stuffed with tanks and crushed the enemy's resistance. I couldn't pull off any more than that, because my side of the map ran out of resources. It wasn't until near the end that I realized I was supposed to expand to the enemy's island using the new MCV provided. FFFUUUUUUU. But hey, at least I beat it.
The next mission was worse. I had to deliver some trucks across a river. Instead of starting nice and peaceful in most missions, all sorts of Allied Tanks were firing at my MCV and I had *barely* enough forces to hold it off. After one reload and some gosu micro, I fought off the initial attack and managed to setup my base. Then I figured I should build some riflemen and scout. I did that; all that managed to achieve was attracting a huge wave of attack. Suffice to say I got pwnt. Reload again, played conservatively, and after many back-and-forth trades and some crazy micro and macro, I won. Took me an hour to do it.
Then it came... the HORROR. The next mission apparently is some kind of stealth mission which I am supposed to place some engineers in some places to avoid a nuclear meltdown. In this mission I got my quickest defeat in a mission in my entire RTS career: in less than 1 second.
If you don't know this mission, here's a youtube video of some guy beating this mission.
It starts at about 0:31. The player in the video immediately moved his stuff to the right because he knew what he was doing. I didn't, so I got instantly wiped out by the flame.
The rest of this mission was not that much easier. The map is full of traps; one wrong move = game over. This includes hidden enemy riflemen, hidden flamethrower, oil barrels, Tanya (I couldn't recognize her), etc. etc. I was so frustrated that I ragequitted. Now I found myself here, cumulating my frustration in the form of a blog.
As I was writing this, I remembered that there are 15 missions in total for each side in Red Alert 1. FFFUUUUUUU. I wonder how bad the last mission will be.
By the way, does anyone know the difference of the countries (England/France/Germany vs Russia/Ukraine) in skirmish?
On July 03 2011 21:15 clusen wrote: RA1 isn't even hard. Go and try Z for example :p
Old games did not hesitate to punish you for mistakes, which I like.
not really, alot of old sidescrollers didnt punish mistakes, they punished you for fun.
the traps and stuff could only be known about after already being killed by them, so many games that were "hard" were just a test of memory not a test of how good you were at that game type.
On July 03 2011 22:45 s.a.y wrote: I am currently playing Age of Empires.
There is a map in the third campaign that i restarted about 30 times and used save and load for about 50 times. That's a single mission.
I predict ending it late summer :D
Which mission is it? I want to replay that game if there is a that hard mission in it. I do recall it being hard, but nothing over 3-4 restarts that I can recall.
As for RA1, it doesn't get much worse, just different problems.
On July 03 2011 21:15 clusen wrote: RA1 isn't even hard. Go and try Z for example :p
Old games did not hesitate to punish you for mistakes, which I like.
not really, alot of old sidescrollers didnt punish mistakes, they punished you for fun.
the traps and stuff could only be known about after already being killed by them, so many games that were "hard" were just a test of memory not a test of how good you were at that game type.
Do you mean stuff like jump'n'runs? Never had any console except an Atari 2600(I still have it) until PS1 was released :p No Gameboy, nothing, so I played mostly strategy games, shooter or rpgs back then or games you could play with 2 or more people on consoles like Mario Kart.
Except one game which was unbeatable because it was so horrible( E.T. for Atari) none of the games I played were unfair.
Wing Commander 4 was one of my most frustrating gaming experiences ever...Riven was as well, but its hard in a different way since its an exploration/puzzle game.
I've only EVER played new games. Can someone give me an estimate of how much the difficulty would be? I have played BW a bit, and have touched AOE2, how difficult are those in perspective of the other oldies games?
The game isn't hard, it just doesn't let you screw up.
I had no problem beating Red Alert (my favorite C&C game to this date, the multiplayer is fucking Badass) but it definitely is a game that will take advantage of you if you make mistakes - something that most games don't do anymore. Older games are just less forgiving in general.
The AI will repeatedly attack you with rather large forces, so it's not really that easy to be like "I'ma store up 50 billion tanks then attack move to victory (even though there's no attack move in this game!)"
That island mission was by far the hardest one, though. I knew exactly what you were gonna talk about when you led into the conversation :p
Some of the oldest games compensated their shortness with difficulty, then became the era when they were quite good lenght and hard.
RA1 was at some points pretty frustrating, as I played it when it first came out. You could play somewhat turtlish but you had to micro and abuse the AI as much as possible, repairing damaged tanks was always cheaper than to build new ones I think.
AI didn't have infinite resources though, but it was hard to starve, because one harvester would instantly fill all the silos and refineries if it ever got back.
You had to snipe several of them if you wanted to win by starving them and even so they still had decent base defenses and units that they didn't use to attack but to defend.
Some of the missions in Red alert were so hard it was retarde. I have no idea how I beat the game when I was 7 years old. Other rts' campaigns were easier. Tiberian Sun firestorm had that one bullshit mission where you get those hovercrafts and have to run around and reach a base. The terrain was snowy, I don't remember much other than that.
Another pretty hard game I remember from the PSX era was Abe's Odyssey, holy fuck that game was hard. I didn't realise I had to save most of the slaves so I got the bad ending. I was so pissed.
On July 03 2011 22:45 s.a.y wrote: I am currently playing Age of Empires.
There is a map in the third campaign that i restarted about 30 times and used save and load for about 50 times. That's a single mission.
I predict ending it late summer :D
Which mission is it? I want to replay that game if there is a that hard mission in it. I do recall it being hard, but nothing over 3-4 restarts that I can recall.
As for RA1, it doesn't get much worse, just different problems.
The map where you start with few archers and basic footmen, fight through the animals, then get 3 scout horses to run over the towers, then you get a few cavalry to run between elephants, catapults and towers. after that you knock down the wall and get 3 priests...
On July 04 2011 03:54 Sotamursu wrote: Some of the missions in Red alert were so hard it was retarde. I have no idea how I beat the game when I was 7 years old. Other rts' campaigns were easier. Tiberian Sun firestorm had that one bullshit mission where you get those hovercrafts and have to run around and reach a base. The terrain was snowy, I don't remember much other than that.
Another pretty hard game I remember from the PSX era was Abe's Odyssey, holy fuck that game was hard. I didn't realise I had to save most of the slaves so I got the bad ending. I was so pissed.
OK I remember that mission. it was so hard and so weird.
Isn't RA1 the game where you can glitch grenade throws? Tell the grenadier to make a toss then switch targets mid animation for infinite range? I could be wrong here.
My brother and I spent about four hours finishing the straight up ridiculous bike level in Battletoads.
The level after it glitched to bits and loads of things in it failed to load. The level was, unless I'm mistaken, a platformer that featured giant snakes as mobile platforms you'd have to jump on/off or avoid altogether from time to time. Only when we finally made it there, the sprites for the snakes didn't load properly and we could only see the very front tip (head and eyes).
Fortunately, the bike-race level had us primed for that kind of shit. It had honed all of the skills we'd need. Post-human reflexes? Not a problem. Precognition? Fully developed. Patience enough that the Dalai Llama would call you for meditation advice? Locked and loaded. The ability to see ghost-shit that can kill you despite not having any on-screen presence? Not that far out of reach.
Eventually though, all of those skills failed us. Big "GAME OVER" screen. Hit "continue" and sent straight back to the first level.
I'm pretty sure my brother destroyed our copy of Battletoads that day. No regrets. Whenever I think, "This game is just stupid-hard," I remember that day and realise that eternal damnation is probably just being alone in a room with a pad, a 60" display and a copy of Battletoads.
I played RA1 a long time ago and it was really fun. I failed quite a few times on later missions, but I wouldn't say it was because it was hard, but rather because I didn't know what was ahead. Once I knew where everything was, it was a lot easier. My hardest game ever was battletoads. Without that game, I would not have all the gray hairs I do today.
EDIT: Oh lol, just read the thread and a lot of people posted battletoads as well ^^
Battletoads level 3 is actually insanely easy compared to the rest of the game. The farthest I've gotten is the level where you're on bike being chased by the ball.
lion king for snes is the most frustrating game ive ever played, battletoads not even close
game over and you have to play the same bullshit levels over and over and it isnt even a fun game...everything in the game is anti-fun gameplay that is just there to fuck with you. Farthest i ever got was the last battle with scar but had no fucking idea how to kill him.
On July 04 2011 07:36 Sqalevon wrote: I recently bought Commandos on steam for nostalgias sake. After an hour of dying I wondered to myself how the hell I ever finished that game.
I still haven't finished this game. The farthest I got was level 7. I have to dig up the CDs ! :D
On July 04 2011 03:54 Sotamursu wrote: Some of the missions in Red alert were so hard it was retarde. I have no idea how I beat the game when I was 7 years old. Other rts' campaigns were easier. Tiberian Sun firestorm had that one bullshit mission where you get those hovercrafts and have to run around and reach a base. The terrain was snowy, I don't remember much other than that.
Another pretty hard game I remember from the PSX era was Abe's Odyssey, holy fuck that game was hard. I didn't realise I had to save most of the slaves so I got the bad ending. I was so pissed.
God I'm having a nostalgia attack! I just finished that game not long ago with a good ending, but it took a long, long time.
You basically need to be very bold, running around mines and Scrubs with a precise timing... lots of practice, really. Old games required a dedicated repetitions to win, I think.
glover for n64, what a headache. Sloppy mechanics, extremely unforgiving, and the weirdest shit ever. To this day there is a ton of secrets in that game that i have no fucking clue how to get
As far as RTS campaigns go, I think they've gotten harder. There's just fewer missions where all you have to do is turtle, get a huge army, and go kill your enemy. There's all sorts of time restrictions, "dungeon missions" and other non-standard stuff now.
For everything else, it's gotten way easier. Every RPG before the few years where KOTOR/Morrowind/NWN came around and made RPGs beatable by the average gamer was incredibly tough.
On July 03 2011 20:59 Sufficiency wrote: By the way, does anyone know the difference of the countries (England/France/Germany vs Russia/Ukraine) in skirmish?
There are tiny bonuses that each one gets... I'm stretching my memory back over a decade, but I think it's England gets bonus armor, France move speed, Germany attack power, Ukraine cheaper units, Russiaaaaa not sure ~_~
I remember me and my brother torturing ourselves on this shit while my other brother just observed and laughed at all our failures. And to top it all off, while agonizing over this game, my dog gets hit by a truck going ~60mph. This game can burn in hell.
Oh, and I would seriously commend anyone who can actually finish Drakkhen without any kind of help at all. This one's more difficult in terms of testing your patience than anything.
On July 06 2011 06:48 ribeye wrote: Oh, and I would seriously commend anyone who can actually finish Drakkhen without any kind of help at all. This one's more difficult in terms of testing your patience than anything.
i really feel that a lot of games back then were designed to seek help through friends and stuff.
unfortunately nowadays your friend is the internet and she knows ALL the answers
The only modern game I personally have played that rivals the old ones in difficulty and in punishing mistakes is Ninja Gaiden: Black. On any difficulty above normal, you will get raped. Repeatedly. And then you learn all the enemies moves, and your own, and can waltz through most enemies without taking a scratch....then you hand the controller to your buddy and he dies in 3 seconds flat to the basic purple imp thingys.
Not the hardest but the most frustrating : you could go for the real 500 and after 2 hours of playing and heavy concentration, a random AI car would bump into yours and it was game over man game over. Stupid AI never let me finish a complete event. Can only be compared to the feeling you'd get playing the most epic SC2 match of your life and battle net crashing at the climax of the 200/200 fight.
On July 03 2011 22:45 s.a.y wrote: I am currently playing Age of Empires.
There is a map in the third campaign that i restarted about 30 times and used save and load for about 50 times. That's a single mission.
I predict ending it late summer :D
you know I had like all the CDs when I was younger. It seems crazy if I could go back with all my sc2 RTS skill and clean up in that game. Sad part is I lost all my discs Maybe I buy back in the future and we battle.
yeh, that game was super hard, I always died in the swimming part where you get electricuted all the time
Oh my god I haven't seen/played this game for like 15 years. I never beat it. Always got stuck at a certain point... spikes closing in from the walls. and tanks on the road... thats all I remember xD
On July 03 2011 20:59 Sufficiency wrote: By the way, does anyone know the difference of the countries (England/France/Germany vs Russia/Ukraine) in skirmish?
UKRAINE IS NOT WEAK
I've still never beat battletoads and turtles. At least turtles I've come really close... fuck battletoads.
yeh, that game was super hard, I always died in the swimming part where you get electricuted all the time
Actually TMNT wan't that scary until you fought the Technodrome if i remember it right... Played this on and off when i was 9-10 years old .
Well, it is more about using Leonardo and Donatella for everything serious and Rapha/Michaelangelo just to "run" :p while remembering where the next Pizza is then "skill" :p.
EPT
Maybe I buy back in the future and we battle.
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