EPTRe: Day[9], with original in-depth interview. - Page 4
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St.Daniel
United States29 Posts
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Ambarella
Canada75 Posts
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tednoob
Sweden28 Posts
Thanks for the nice interview, Chargelot! | ||
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Combine
United States812 Posts
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leo23
United States3075 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
 I wouldn't be surprised if they changed Zerg quite a lot -- I think there would be mostly positive feedback since Zerg is pretty boring tbh and we know that Blizzard did a bad job on them. They can make good races like Terran and Protoss, I know they can make a better Zerg. | ||
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sneedling
United States5 Posts
A Zerg redesign to fit what Day is asking for would be a tall order. However, if there ever was a time to release such a redesign, it would be with HoTS or shortly after. It would really help the game in its aesthetic feel but it wouldn't really contribute to the competitive scene--i don't think. Only experience will tell if changes in that direction would be helpful. Zergs would pretty much have the right to QQ like no ones business if their race got a fairly complete restructuring. I feel like Day is being a little pressured by the community to return to gaming so quick. I mean it would be great to see him tear it up at the one of the next MLGs or something but I'm completely cool with him taking as much time to develop his "mastery" for the game that he needs. Based on this interview it seems like Day enjoys the learning and discovery aspect of the game versus the just winning games on ladder and doing well in tournaments side. That's pretty cool-- it's something most don't enjoy as much about the game and something that can keep you interested in the game's development. Which makes sense considering how long Day's been with the Starcraft scene. Anyways, good interview! | ||
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monx
Canada1400 Posts
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DRAM
United Kingdom33 Posts
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Faria
155 Posts
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SoBeDragon
United States192 Posts
I wanted to inquire on one point of the interview regarding this statement: My problem with this is that I feel like all roles, that I can think of at least, are already filled. I am surprised that Sean didn't touch on the fact that Zerg have no units that traverse cliffs (Reaper/Colossus), and no cloaked attacking units(banshee/DT...I'm talking about a unit that is attacking while it's cloaked...like a lurker...I'm not talking about a caster unit that poops out green eggs that spawns another unit a few seconds later that walks like it's in cement). I'm not a professional player, or a very analytic person, but when I switched to Zerg, I never understood why those roles were not filled. If anyone has any thoughts on this, I would love to hear them. Thanks again Sean. Day9 fightiiiing!! <3 | ||
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Exley
United States239 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
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accaris
98 Posts
On June 11 2011 07:02 SoBeDragon wrote: Great interview!! I love reading more about the way Sean thinks, and he answered some questions that I've always wanted to ask myself. Thank you very much for this content. I wanted to inquire on one point of the interview regarding this statement: I am surprised that Sean didn't touch on the fact that Zerg have no units that traverse cliffs (Reaper/Colossus), and no cloaked attacking units(banshee/DT...I'm talking about a unit that is attacking while it's cloaked...like a lurker...I'm not talking about a caster unit that poops out green eggs that spawns another unit a few seconds later that walks like it's in cement). I'm not a professional player, or a very analytic person, but when I switched to Zerg, I never understood why those roles were not filled. If anyone has any thoughts on this, I would love to hear them. Thanks again Sean. Day9 fightiiiing!! <3 I wouldn't describe "traversing cliffs" and "attacking while cloaked" as roles. Those are abilities, but not roles. For example, you wouldn't say that a Banshee's role is "a unit that attacks while cloaked," but rather that it is a "high-damage air-to-ground unit," since cloak is actually secondary to a Banshee's core role in an army composition. A Banshee is still a Banshee even if it doesn't have cloak. That's why Sean doesn't necessarily agree with the idea of "roles" to begin with (see his comparison of the Marine and the Goliath,) but he definitely agrees that new units should not make old units obsolete. | ||
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SoBeDragon
United States192 Posts
On June 11 2011 07:21 accaris wrote: I wouldn't describe "traversing cliffs" and "attacking while cloaked" as roles. Those are abilities, but not roles. For example, you wouldn't say that a Banshee's role is "a unit that attacks while cloaked," but rather that it is a "high-damage air-to-ground unit," since cloak is actually secondary to a Banshee's core role in an army composition. A Banshee is still a Banshee even if it doesn't have cloak. That's why Sean doesn't necessarily agree with the idea of "roles" to begin with (see his comparison of the Marine and the Goliath,) but he definitely agrees that new units should not make old units obsolete. Very true. I guess saying those units have those abilities is more accurate then saying whether or not they fill those roles (although cliff traversing is an ability that helps fulfill the role of scouting in the early game). I guess with that in mind, I still wonder why Zerg lacks those "abilities". | ||
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HunterStarcraft
Canada249 Posts
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
And not only was it awesome, but Sean talked about Total Annihilation!!!!!!!!!! That is the Coolest game I've ever played!! Thanks for the interview! | ||
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crimsonsentinel
United States179 Posts
I still think zerg misses scourge way more than any other unit. | ||
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Chargelot
2275 Posts
On June 11 2011 07:37 SoBeDragon wrote: Very true. I guess saying those units have those abilities is more accurate then saying whether or not they fill those roles (although cliff traversing is an ability that helps fulfill the role of scouting in the early game). I guess with that in mind, I still wonder why Zerg lacks those "abilities". If you reflect on the purpose, strengths, and weaknesses of cloak, I would argue that burrowed roaches fill the cloaked unit "role". The dangerous part of a cloaked unit is not when it is attacking. It's that you don't see it coming. If you saw cloaked banshees coming, you'd have the appropriate defenses ready, and then cloak would be worthless in the fight. Likewise, if you see roaches coming, you can prepare for them too. But if you don't see the roaches coming, you have that same surprise attack as a cloaked banshee. The difference is that Banshees cost more, and therefore you can get more roaches for the same unit cost (disregarding tech costs for both sides), essentially inflicting more damage, but with the cost of a more difficult retreat. I think I could make the comparison go back and forth for walls and walls of text, but in the end, both are effective means of having a surprise attack. Both are only as effective as the target allows them to be. Cliff walking -- I'm not sure Zerg needs this. I mean, it could definitely help with the walling/scouting issues Zerg faces now, but to accomplish this it would have to be an early unit, close by comparison to the reaper. To simply have it unlocked by the Spawning Pool would be ridiculous, because then you'd just see a 6-8 pool every game, and nothing but cliff-jumpers pumped out. So then, how do we not destroy the early game by invalidating the only defense Terran and Protoss have vs. early rushes (the wall)? The unit would have to be either unable to be rushed for, or difficult to rush, So either the unit comes from the spawning pool, but costs a ridiculous sum of minerals and gas, or it requires its own tech structure, or it is added to an existing tech structure. But in the end, this would still make scouting difficult for Zerg. Adding these sorts of necessary restrictions means players would be able to prepare a defense just for your cliff jumper. The reason people don't do this against Reapers is that there are a few other ways to scout, so you can't be absolutely sure he is sending in the reaper. Of course, the mechanic itself, even on a weak or costly unit, could pay off in different situations. It doesn't all need to be about scouting. But for this specific purpose, it would be hard to accomplish anything worthwhile using a cliff jumper. ---- On June 11 2011 08:06 crimsonsentinel wrote: Probably the best interview I've seen. New questions but yet still startlingly relevant. It helps that you interviewed Day9 so he did 75% of the work for you, but still good job! I hope you do many more. I still think zerg misses scourge way more than any other unit. I think that's really the point of the interviewer. I'm just the means through which Sean delivered information to you guys. I gave him some questions, which gave him the chance to express his ideas. His ideas -- any ideas -- are worth a thousand times more than questions, because questions are simply the means by which we obtain others' ideas. | ||
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SoBeDragon
United States192 Posts
I would argue that burrowed roaches fill the cloaked unit "role". The dangerous part of a cloaked unit is not when it is attacking. It's that you don't see it coming. I disagree. The dangerous part of a cloaked unit is that you must have detection in order to prevent the damage from being dealt. A cloaked banshee without detection kills everything...same with a cloaked DT. A burrowed roach without detection is worthless, especially since roaches can't go under buildings. Cliff walking -- I'm not sure Zerg needs this Let Blizzard figure out how to do it, but Zerg very much needs the ability to scale cliffs. Considering Zerg has fewer means to constrict space, (can only build on creep) they need a tool to help them scout earlier. Terran has reapers & scan, protoss has hallucinated phoenix and/or obs, but Zerg only has the OL in the early game. The OL can be shut down by 1 marine / 1 stalker, which makes sacrificing it a gamble (either you get lucky and see what u need to, or you dont). There is also no "snap defense" mechanism available to Zerg which is why this scouting is so necessary (Terran can wall off w/bunkers, protoss have force fields. In BW, creep colonies became sunks, so they had a snap defense in the past). I really think if Zerg had a tier 1 cliff walker, this could solve a lot of the issues that Idra mentioned. I hope Sean reads this and provides us with his opinion! | ||
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