Idra might have a point with his talk. Notice that if you look further than the map balance, to a more realistically weighted skill estimation, like ELO, the asymmetries in race usage become quite visible:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players

On May 20 2011 20:44 Gann1 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I call it the Artosis Effect. Terran in BW, and now Zerg in SC2!

Really dude? Terran? After all their tournament wins?

Terranator

Canada286 Posts

May 20 2011 13:23 GMT

#24

Yeah, as everyone else is saying. Don't title your blog Grrrr if you don't intent to talk about Grrrr.

Lucumo

6850 Posts

May 20 2011 13:26 GMT

#25

On May 20 2011 22:23 Terranator wrote:
Yeah, as everyone else is saying. Don't title your blog Grrrr if you don't intent to talk about Grrrr.

Yeah, that was just....lame

GTPGlitch

5061 Posts

May 20 2011 14:29 GMT

#26

Apologies to everyone that was expecting Grrrr D:

Never heard of him (just kinda got into sc2 progaming, haven't really followed BW at all)

>.<

MoreFaSho

United States1427 Posts

May 20 2011 14:31 GMT

#27

On May 20 2011 17:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Zergs are hilarious.

Take Crossfire for example, the #1 map every zerg whines about. Infact, they whine so much I had assumed the fact that I didnt like it TvZ just meant I sucked.

Sooooo, then the other day I checked its stats in TLPD:

ZvT: 31-25
ZvP: 28-20

Fucking zergs man. Fucking zergs.

Why do you think the results favor zerg? Everything about the architecture of that map except maybe the distance to the 3rd seems like it would be anti-zerg. I don't think you would ever say that narrow chokes favor zerg. It is worth noting that the areas are actually thin enough that it takes time for all the units to move through it.

Is it possible that the distance to the 3rd is actually a bigger deal than the map architecture? Seems possible.

Looking at the games themselves that I've seen I'm a little less convinced. I really do think that Nestea should've lost that game against sC and the mistakes he made were pretty small.

PvZ is a whole different beast. I think it's very hard to nexus first on that map and having that option kind of out of the opening pool, even if it's not the only good option, helps zerg a lot, so it's possible that the mid-game issues are balanced out by opening? Again I'm not sure, it does seem that a lot of protoss are obsessed with colossus on that map which should be good, but really anything with heavy forcefields is going or even a mobility play like blink stalkers to pick your engagement.

My basic point is that I have no problem if there is a counter-intuitive result on a map, but it seems there should be some reason that the paradox isn't actually a paradox. Because I think map architecture is definitely unfavorable for zerg.

TheGiz

Canada708 Posts

May 20 2011 16:55 GMT

#28

You have to admit that Zerg's early game air defense and detection is weak (Queens are good but they often don't have enough). There's still Spore Crawlers though. I don't know why an early one isn't considered, since its detection outranges its ability to fire, assisting the Queen.

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

May 20 2011 18:17 GMT

#29

Love it. Zergs amuse me.

Zerg player: Must macro, must macro. Need 9 bases. Right now, 9 bases and 120 drones.

Terran player: Um..I think you could kill him like right now. He is being totally greedy.

Zerg player: How does that get me to 9 bases?

Gann1

United States1575 Posts

May 22 2011 12:31 GMT

#30

On May 20 2011 22:18 xarthaz wrote:
Idra might have a point with his talk. Notice that if you look further than the map balance, to a more realistically weighted skill estimation, like ELO, the asymmetries in race usage become quite visible:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players

Show nested quote +

Really dude? Terran? After all their tournament wins?

if you listen to Artosis, terran was four times as hard to play as protoss and twice as hard as zerg in BW

it just goes to show you that you shouldn't listen to Artosis about game balance, ever.

Louuster

Canada2869 Posts

May 22 2011 16:10 GMT

#31

Damn i was expecting the triumphant return of grrrr... to starcraft 2

Megaliskuu

United States5123 Posts

May 22 2011 16:31 GMT

#32

On May 22 2011 21:31 Gann1 wrote:

Show nested quote +

if you listen to Artosis, terran was four times as hard to play as protoss and twice as hard as zerg in BW

it just goes to show you that you shouldn't listen to Artosis about game balance, ever.

Idk, playing sk terran was probably the mechanically hardest start you could play in bw ;;.

Chef

10810 Posts

May 22 2011 17:14 GMT

#33

What's so hard about controlling SK Terran? Marines have short build time and you need a lot of barracks to keep your money low, so Terran has a little higher APM on average, but it wasn't really more difficult or anything. A good Zerg who doesn't let larvae build up also tends to have a much bigger challenge relating to macro, especially since his or her hatches are all over the map (but no low level Zergs have good macro past the first engagement). Not to get into a discussion about balance in BW or anything, just saying SKTerran is really not harder to control than any other StarCraft army.

TheAwesomeAll

Netherlands1609 Posts

May 22 2011 18:50 GMT

#34

On May 20 2011 20:08 shannn wrote:

Show nested quote +

Touché man :D But Unless you either are very oldschool from BW or you read articles about the player (me) I doubt that many players would know about him