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So i'm laddering today in my sad sad plat-diamond range (high plat)
Play against a couple zergs in a row, beat 2/4.
The two i lost i couldn't keep up macro-wise, leaving me behind in the army-bashings with a weak economy and infrastructure (weakest part of my terran play)
One of the games I won was against a 1-base bling/ling all-in.... hold off with a hasty supdepot wall+2 bunkers behind them... expand, tech-->starport, scan.... Still on hatch tech, all speedling defense, natural just finished......
Build 3 banshees, kill both his queens, all his tech. Goes for a counterattack that fails miserably, calls terran fucking imba, leaves -.-
Same gist second game, except it was a 2-base allin with bling speed as well as ling speed :o
complains that terran needs a nerf, leaves
And i feel like Idra is quite definitely at least a part of the reason that so many zergs cry.
~and, imo, idra isn't as good as he thinks he is. His quite glaring weakness is the early-push shit that we've seen him lose to a bunch simply because he drones so hard. His solution isn't to start doing different builds like most pros. Instead, he simply complains that zerg needs a buff.
All
The
Time
My problem with this is it promotes a stagnation of thought within the zerg community of sc2.
aka "well if Idra, who is 9000000 times better than me(not saying he isn't a good player) says that zerg are UP, so i should try to stick to builds that are proven."
.............
In the mass queen funday, Catz did a queen/roach/crawler defense until blords on 2base, and it worked comparatively well. Instead of attempts to find new solutions or change up how zerg is played, its simply "BUFF ZERG NERF TERRAN/PROTOSS"
And yet zerg has an adequate way to hold off every push well enough that they can simply remax on 10000 lings and be okay (toss have easier reinforcement so its kinda borderline with them, which is why you make roaches instead i suppose ^^). Zerg got a big kick-in-the-pants with the infestor buff, which gave people a new, relatively ignored path to take. but all's i see is the same old play from every zerg on the ladder.. *yawn*
And not many zergs are willing to say that their race actually has an acceptable chance against the others, simply because idra disagrees :/
 
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50470 Posts
I honestly though this was a blog about Grrr...
well suck it up and keep on fighting.
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Were is Grrr in this blog? I heard he was playing some and I got my hopes up
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I also thought this was a blog about Guillaume Patry.
Oh well, keep fighting the good fight against the Swarm.
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soooo i should go ahead and whine on terran and protoss cause they BM me constantly when i roflstomp their army?
why do you even care what others say? you lose because you aren't good vZ, them crying cause they're shit should not affect you in any way. keep on practicing instead of crying that some zergs whine a lot, cause they do.
also idra is fucking amazing, there IS a reason why everyone cheeses/2 base all ins the guy.
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On May 20 2011 16:45 BLinD-RawR wrote:I honestly though this was a blog about Grrr... well suck it up and keep on fighting.
On May 20 2011 16:52 Gann1 wrote:
I also thought this was a blog about Guillaume Patry.
Oh well, keep fighting the good fight against the Swarm.
On May 20 2011 16:51 Patriot.dlk wrote:Were is Grrr in this blog? I heard he was playing some and I got my hopes up
Same here
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I also thought this was a blog about Guillaume Patry
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Sweden33719 Posts
Zergs are hilarious.
Take Crossfire for example, the #1 map every zerg whines about. Infact, they whine so much I had assumed the fact that I didnt like it TvZ just meant I sucked.
Sooooo, then the other day I checked its stats in TLPD:
ZvT: 31-25
ZvP: 28-20
Fucking zergs man. Fucking zergs.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50470 Posts
lol FA!
Zerg whine is the real imbalance imo.
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Was hoping for some news on Grrr... but instead Jinro posted!
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I was hoping for Giyom but.... Misleading title
Well, at least there's FA.
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On May 20 2011 17:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Zergs are hilarious.
Take Crossfire for example, the #1 map every zerg whines about. Infact, they whine so much I had assumed the fact that I didnt like it TvZ just meant I sucked.
Sooooo, then the other day I checked its stats in TLPD:
ZvT: 31-25
ZvP: 28-20
Fucking zergs man. Fucking zergs.
What does this have to do with guillame?
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On May 20 2011 17:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Zergs are hilarious.
Take Crossfire for example, the #1 map every zerg whines about. Infact, they whine so much I had assumed the fact that I didnt like it TvZ just meant I sucked.
Sooooo, then the other day I checked its stats in TLPD:
ZvT: 31-25
ZvP: 28-20
Fucking zergs man. Fucking zergs.
Well, there is Kulas Ravine from earlier seasons of GSL. The map was unplayable for zergs, literally.
Number of Zerg players in GSL S1:~15 iirc.
Number of Zerg players that didn't veto Kulas: 2 (Fruitdealer and Zenio, and there were better maps to veto like Delta and Steppes).
GSL S1 record on Kulas: Fruitdealer: ??-0, Zenio: 2-1 or something like that. I'm not sure.
And yes, we zergs sometimes can be hilarious. But the game is still getting figured out despite balance being more or less stable.
+ Show Spoiler [Evolution] +GSL S1: Fruitdealer sweeps terrans with hatch first eco heavy play. Nobody could do shit.
GSL S2: Kyrix gets to Q-finals solely by mid game baneling bust to face MKP before MKP introduces his marine split micro against Kyrix's banelings.
GSL S3: Rain 2 raxes into finals and in the finals he looks like a class z player. BitByBit prime also gets to ro16 by 2 rax marine scv allining zergs before finally losing to fruitdealer.
Gisado TPZ invitational: IMMvp sweeps zergs 10-1 with 2 rax aggression and marine tank medivac play. Both are figured out to death right now.
...
A month ago: Losira introduces his roach-doubleling play with moderately late lair and all that stuff.
2 weeks ago: Again, Losira introduces an early-mid game roach pressure/expand build (by expand, I mean get 3rd and drone up). We see code s protosses looking like code z noobs when they don't do an early-mid game pressure themselves on Zerg.
Now: MvP_DongRaeGu shows that heaviest early-mid game pushes of Terran can be handled by moderate number of +1 attack doublelings. MKP, GanZi, Supernova and Nada look like Code Z players.
But after an unbiased look, it is clear that all losses are either due to loser's mistakes/blunders or winner's strategy that is not figured out.
Last teamleague, ST_Squirtle allkills fOu team that sent 4 terrans. Second match, second set, poltprime wins against a better protoss. And what he did was this: He made marauders, and he used them. Then I realized that none of fOu terrans used marauders. Or ZvP Losira pressure expand build that is not figured out and stuff like that.
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On May 20 2011 17:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Zergs are hilarious.
Take Crossfire for example, the #1 map every zerg whines about. Infact, they whine so much I had assumed the fact that I didnt like it TvZ just meant I sucked.
Sooooo, then the other day I checked its stats in TLPD:
ZvT: 31-25
ZvP: 28-20
Fucking zergs man. Fucking zergs.
u mad?
User was warned for this post
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Quit using tournament results as evidence when discussing balance.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50470 Posts
On May 20 2011 19:50 RoieTRS wrote:
Quit using tournament results as evidence when discussing balance.
on that note,Quit using the name of a Progaming Legend as the title for your blog.
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I don't know why are you talking about Idra here. Do you really watch his games? He mixes early agression a lot and drones when he feels safe.
He complains about balance like any other top zerg ( Nestea, Fruitdealer, Sen) but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about improve his game or try different builds.
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On May 20 2011 19:52 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 19:50 RoieTRS wrote:
Quit using tournament results as evidence when discussing balance. on that note,Quit using the name of a Progaming Legend as the title for your blog.
Touché man :D But Unless you either are very oldschool from BW or you read articles about the player (me) I doubt that many players would know about him 
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Even if the high level Zerg players (not only IdrA) who complain about balance are right, that stuff shouldn't necessarily apply to people on the ladder who aren't top top Master. I think most Zergs who hear those arguments instantly goes "that's right! that's why I've been losing! they clearly state that zerg is imba, it solves everything", and that's kinda their mindset in ladder because of it. Literally 90% of the whiners on ladder are Zergs in my experience, and I don't think this is a coincidence. So people need to chill down with the Zerg imba whine when they can't even handle the basics of macro, if you are losing it's most likely not because of your race.
I also opened this blog with expectations of it being about Grrr... lol.
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On May 20 2011 20:18 Snaiil wrote:
Even if the high level Zerg players (not only IdrA) who complain about balance are right, that stuff shouldn't necessarily apply to people on the ladder who aren't top top Master. I think most Zergs who hear those arguments instantly goes "that's right! that's why I've been losing! they clearly state that zerg is imba, it solves everything", and that's kinda their mindset in ladder because of it. Literally 90% of the whiners on ladder are Zergs in my experience, and I don't think this is a coincidence. So people need to chill down with the Zerg imba whine when they can't even handle the basics of macro, if you are losing it's most likely not because of your race.
I also opened this blog with expectations of it being about Grrr... lol.
I call it the Artosis Effect. Terran in BW, and now Zerg in SC2!
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no grrr in this blog x(
1 star for you -_-
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1/5 misleading title.
Don't you play with a man's emotions like that!
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Idra might have a point with his talk. Notice that if you look further than the map balance, to a more realistically weighted skill estimation, like ELO, the asymmetries in race usage become quite visible:
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players
On May 20 2011 20:44 Gann1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 20:18 Snaiil wrote:
Even if the high level Zerg players (not only IdrA) who complain about balance are right, that stuff shouldn't necessarily apply to people on the ladder who aren't top top Master. I think most Zergs who hear those arguments instantly goes "that's right! that's why I've been losing! they clearly state that zerg is imba, it solves everything", and that's kinda their mindset in ladder because of it. Literally 90% of the whiners on ladder are Zergs in my experience, and I don't think this is a coincidence. So people need to chill down with the Zerg imba whine when they can't even handle the basics of macro, if you are losing it's most likely not because of your race.
I also opened this blog with expectations of it being about Grrr... lol. I call it the Artosis Effect. Terran in BW, and now Zerg in SC2!
Really dude? Terran? After all their tournament wins?
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Yeah, as everyone else is saying. Don't title your blog Grrrr if you don't intent to talk about Grrrr.
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On May 20 2011 22:23 Terranator wrote:
Yeah, as everyone else is saying. Don't title your blog Grrrr if you don't intent to talk about Grrrr.
Yeah, that was just....lame
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Apologies to everyone that was expecting Grrrr D:
Never heard of him (just kinda got into sc2 progaming, haven't really followed BW at all)
>.<
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On May 20 2011 17:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Zergs are hilarious.
Take Crossfire for example, the #1 map every zerg whines about. Infact, they whine so much I had assumed the fact that I didnt like it TvZ just meant I sucked.
Sooooo, then the other day I checked its stats in TLPD:
ZvT: 31-25
ZvP: 28-20
Fucking zergs man. Fucking zergs.
Why do you think the results favor zerg? Everything about the architecture of that map except maybe the distance to the 3rd seems like it would be anti-zerg. I don't think you would ever say that narrow chokes favor zerg. It is worth noting that the areas are actually thin enough that it takes time for all the units to move through it.
Is it possible that the distance to the 3rd is actually a bigger deal than the map architecture? Seems possible.
Looking at the games themselves that I've seen I'm a little less convinced. I really do think that Nestea should've lost that game against sC and the mistakes he made were pretty small.
PvZ is a whole different beast. I think it's very hard to nexus first on that map and having that option kind of out of the opening pool, even if it's not the only good option, helps zerg a lot, so it's possible that the mid-game issues are balanced out by opening? Again I'm not sure, it does seem that a lot of protoss are obsessed with colossus on that map which should be good, but really anything with heavy forcefields is going or even a mobility play like blink stalkers to pick your engagement.
My basic point is that I have no problem if there is a counter-intuitive result on a map, but it seems there should be some reason that the paradox isn't actually a paradox. Because I think map architecture is definitely unfavorable for zerg.
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You have to admit that Zerg's early game air defense and detection is weak (Queens are good but they often don't have enough). There's still Spore Crawlers though. I don't know why an early one isn't considered, since its detection outranges its ability to fire, assisting the Queen.
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On May 20 2011 17:17 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Zergs are hilarious.
Take Crossfire for example, the #1 map every zerg whines about. Infact, they whine so much I had assumed the fact that I didnt like it TvZ just meant I sucked.
Sooooo, then the other day I checked its stats in TLPD:
ZvT: 31-25
ZvP: 28-20
Fucking zergs man. Fucking zergs.
Love it. Zergs amuse me.
Zerg player: Must macro, must macro. Need 9 bases. Right now, 9 bases and 120 drones.
Terran player: Um..I think you could kill him like right now. He is being totally greedy.
Zerg player: How does that get me to 9 bases?
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On May 20 2011 22:18 xarthaz wrote:Idra might have a point with his talk. Notice that if you look further than the map balance, to a more realistically weighted skill estimation, like ELO, the asymmetries in race usage become quite visible: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/playersShow nested quote +On May 20 2011 20:44 Gann1 wrote:On May 20 2011 20:18 Snaiil wrote:
Even if the high level Zerg players (not only IdrA) who complain about balance are right, that stuff shouldn't necessarily apply to people on the ladder who aren't top top Master. I think most Zergs who hear those arguments instantly goes "that's right! that's why I've been losing! they clearly state that zerg is imba, it solves everything", and that's kinda their mindset in ladder because of it. Literally 90% of the whiners on ladder are Zergs in my experience, and I don't think this is a coincidence. So people need to chill down with the Zerg imba whine when they can't even handle the basics of macro, if you are losing it's most likely not because of your race.
I also opened this blog with expectations of it being about Grrr... lol. I call it the Artosis Effect. Terran in BW, and now Zerg in SC2! Really dude? Terran? After all their tournament wins?
if you listen to Artosis, terran was four times as hard to play as protoss and twice as hard as zerg in BW
it just goes to show you that you shouldn't listen to Artosis about game balance, ever.
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Damn i was expecting the triumphant return of grrrr... to starcraft 2
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On May 22 2011 21:31 Gann1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 22:18 xarthaz wrote:Idra might have a point with his talk. Notice that if you look further than the map balance, to a more realistically weighted skill estimation, like ELO, the asymmetries in race usage become quite visible: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/playersOn May 20 2011 20:44 Gann1 wrote:On May 20 2011 20:18 Snaiil wrote:
Even if the high level Zerg players (not only IdrA) who complain about balance are right, that stuff shouldn't necessarily apply to people on the ladder who aren't top top Master. I think most Zergs who hear those arguments instantly goes "that's right! that's why I've been losing! they clearly state that zerg is imba, it solves everything", and that's kinda their mindset in ladder because of it. Literally 90% of the whiners on ladder are Zergs in my experience, and I don't think this is a coincidence. So people need to chill down with the Zerg imba whine when they can't even handle the basics of macro, if you are losing it's most likely not because of your race.
I also opened this blog with expectations of it being about Grrr... lol. I call it the Artosis Effect. Terran in BW, and now Zerg in SC2! Really dude? Terran? After all their tournament wins? if you listen to Artosis, terran was four times as hard to play as protoss and twice as hard as zerg in BW it just goes to show you that you shouldn't listen to Artosis about game balance, ever.
Idk, playing sk terran was probably the mechanically hardest start you could play in bw ;;.
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What's so hard about controlling SK Terran? Marines have short build time and you need a lot of barracks to keep your money low, so Terran has a little higher APM on average, but it wasn't really more difficult or anything. A good Zerg who doesn't let larvae build up also tends to have a much bigger challenge relating to macro, especially since his or her hatches are all over the map (but no low level Zergs have good macro past the first engagement). Not to get into a discussion about balance in BW or anything, just saying SKTerran is really not harder to control than any other StarCraft army.
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On May 20 2011 20:08 shannn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2011 19:52 BLinD-RawR wrote:On May 20 2011 19:50 RoieTRS wrote:
Quit using tournament results as evidence when discussing balance. on that note,Quit using the name of a Progaming Legend as the title for your blog. Touché man :D But Unless you either are very oldschool from BW or you read articles about the player (me) I doubt that many players would know about him
I think everyone has at least heard about grrrr... His name is very memorable as well, so people tend to never forget him 
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EPT
