**This thread is not meant to be condescending - it just contains things i thought would have been helpful if i knew about them right at the beginning**
There is a common complaint amongst the community that new users usually don’t understand the necessary guidelines that dictate this website and its members. Things such as post content, OP content and LR etiquette are all notorious ban traps. The most common thing that annoys me endlessly is when new users begin a thread simply to ask a question.
“Hey guys, when is GSL on tonight!? Sorry if this is the wrong way to ask, but i didn’t know!”
This is then followed by someone taking a screenshot of the calendar with a big red arrow pointing at 2h 30m GSL Code S Finals! I understand new users probably don’t know the intricacies that go with this community, but i rarely find ignorance as an excuse. There is just a wealth of knowledge in this community, that a little bit of initiative goes a long way. But, if you didn't know these existed - they may be helpful!
These are the best resources to answer any simple questions you may have; please exploit them all greatly!
If you still cannot find the answer to your question, TL.net has this incredible PM system which makes their moderators and administrators very accessible. This leads perfectly into the next issue, which is OP content. If you have an idea for a thread, and you are not 100% convinced that it deserves its own thread, the general rule of thumb is to not post it.
However, if you feel it would greatly add value to the community by all means go ahead and PM a moderator! PMing a moderator seems to be the solution to many problems around here, and unless they are offline or extremely busy they will definitely respond.
When i first registered here i got a warning for not posting in proper english; i was using abbreviations and short hand in all my posts. I was not even aware that this was a posting requirement at TL.net! If there was someone there to tell me, things would have been much better!
There is so much potential for community contributions that it would be a shame if your account got banned before you had an opportunity to shine.
TL.net =/= Google
Obviously, the above covers asking simple questions, but i thought a special reference to Liquipedia and TLPD need to be mentioned. These great resources offer an incredible wealth of knowledge that can answer pretty much any question that doesn’t require discussion. Please check these before asking questions, they can open your eyes!
LR Threads:
The biggest ban trap of them all; I have come across many people who actually do not know the purpose of these threads. The LR stands for Live Report; i.e. it is thread primarily used for reporting what is going on in the current game. These threads exist to allow people who cannot access the stream the ability to follow the game and keep updated. They rely on people "Live Reporting" the games rather than making pointless comments or balance queries.
Obviously, discussion about the games ensue which is not so terrible. The problem is when people feel the need to express their grievances. LR threads do not exist as an avenue to express ways you think the tournament can be improved. They do not exist as a sounding board for your thoughts on balance. It is a very clear guideline that balance whine in an LR thread is a big fat no-no. So quite simply – DON’T DO IT! If you have a coherent argument, MAKE A NEW THREAD; if you don’t have a coherent argument then DON’T POST IT! The amount of terrible posting that goes on in LR threads is abominable and the majority of it is by low post count users that may be new to the site.
I thought i was doing everything right – but then i got warned/banned/thread closed!
The best way to understand what happened is to PM a moderator. A useful technique is to head to the closed threads section, jump on the automated ban list (another very entertaining part of the community) and spot a moderator that is active. Obviously if you see one who has just posted it is much easier. Click PM and ask them why you got warned/banned; if you remain calm and polite they will most certainly hear you out. There is also this:
This is located in the Website Feedback Section– another great resource; if you feel something needs to be improved on the site, post away and you will most certainly get a response.
Martyring For those who do not understand what this means, it is basically saying "I'm going to get banned for this, but..." or "I don't care, ban me!" The majority of times you say this, your post isn't ban worthy, not even worthy of a warning but by simply placing that in your post you are going to get automatically banned. Without fail.
I have learnt a lot about what is acceptable on this site by checking out the Closed Threads Section.
TL.net has always prided itself on “quality” – the threads, topics and professionalism that TL carries along speak a lot to it’s community members and administration; at the end of the day – if we put crap in, we are only going to get crap out! The onus is on YOU to make sure this community stays as incredible and worthwhile as it is.
Well i hope this was helpful in some way. At the end of the day i think “don’t be a douche” goes a long way on these forums. TL.net has a very transparent community and the moderators, administrators and banlings are usually open to discuss any issues you may have.
Edit: User contributions - JWD the man himself adds:
On May 14 2011 23:40 JWD wrote: The only really common no-no I see from new posters that you didn't talk about is posting in memes (e.g. "u mad", "cool story bro", "TLDR", image macros, spammy YT videos, copy-pasted ASCII art).
Oh and one more thing: some explanation about why martyring always results in a ban. If a user martyrs in an otherwise good post, he is insulting the mod staff and confusing other posters by suggesting he will get an unwarranted ban. If a user martyrs in an otherwise bad post, he is indicating that he knew his post was terrible and decided to put it up anyway. That's just making work for the mods.
Not to be a douche, but what do you think the odds are that someone who didn't bother to read the rules when they signed up is going to read your blog post?
Thanks for posting this, but I doubt the people who actually need this information will be able to find it if they couldn't find the rules thread in the first place.
The "New Thread" button is just too juicy for newer people on TL to not press. I actually learned my lesson a long time ago when I was 13 or 14 on another gaming forum. The sad thing is that I was heckled and laughed at on that site, but on this site it would get closed immediately, then warned and linked to forum rules and TL Commandments.
Closed threads is a gold mine when having a bad day. Some of the closed threads are just ridiculous.
On May 14 2011 21:46 JingleHell wrote: Not to be a douche, but what do you think the odds are that someone who didn't bother to read the rules when they signed up is going to read your blog post?
Very nice writeup, though.
I just didn't feel it warranted it's own thread :p took my own advice.
it's also all my opinion what is essential so i thought a blog was a good idea; either way - i got it out of my system and hopefully someone will read it I mean if it justified it's own thread a mod could move it but anyway, glad you guys found it interesting hehe :p
On May 14 2011 21:46 JingleHell wrote: Not to be a douche, but what do you think the odds are that someone who didn't bother to read the rules when they signed up is going to read your blog post?
Very nice writeup, though.
If it gets spotlighted, then the odds might not be so bad (hint hint, mods).
On May 14 2011 21:46 JingleHell wrote: Not to be a douche, but what do you think the odds are that someone who didn't bother to read the rules when they signed up is going to read your blog post?
Very nice writeup, though.
If it gets spotlighted, then the odds might not be so bad (hint hint, mods).
Call me a cynic, but I would expect the people who need to see this the most to be too busy either whining about balance or telling people in the Tech Support forum that changing X software will fix Y hardware problem or vice versa.
O man I havent gone to the closed threads section in so long! I forgot about the infinite time I can delay studying....if only I realized this sooner...
Useful thread! It really is true that a new poster can learn a ton by simply checking the Closed Threads forum once in a while.
Spotlighted.
I'm trying think of things I would add but...you covered so much! The only really common no-no I see from new posters that you didn't talk about is posting in memes (e.g. "u mad", "cool story bro", "TLDR", image macros, spammy YT videos, copy-pasted ASCII art).
Oh and one more thing: some explanation about why martyring always results in a ban. If a user martyrs in an otherwise good post, he is insulting the mod staff and confusing other posters by suggesting he will get an unwarranted ban. If a user martyrs in an otherwise bad post, he is indicating that he knew his post was terrible and decided to put it up anyway. That's just making work for the mods.
This is the first time I have seen your user name and you are a staff.
TL is officially a city.
Obviously, the above covers asking simple questions, but i thought a special reference to Liquipedia and TLPD need to be mentioned. These great resources offer an incredible wealth of knowledge that can answer pretty much any question that doesn’t require discussion. Please check these before asking questions, they can open your eyes!
Honestly Liquidpedia is full of a lot of misinformation and out of date buildorders. I would only use it for technical information like buildtime and unit sizes. Strategy-wise it's about on par with English commentators.
On May 14 2011 21:46 JingleHell wrote: Not to be a douche, but what do you think the odds are that someone who didn't bother to read the rules when they signed up is going to read your blog post?
Very nice writeup, though.
Not too high, but probably higher than the odds of someone reading the rules before / just after signing up. People generally tend to just click past all the rules, terms, conditions and such stuff when they sign up for things.
Anyways, good effort with the thread. I would add that just behaving in a civil manner, not being too confrontational, intentionally stirring up drama or derailing threads by complaining (about anything) will likely keep you a safe distance away from the banhammer and more importantly - make people who read you post a lot happier.
Great thread, I agree with Chef & Synapse though, I haven't seen your name before! :D City indeed, but since you have a TLPD icon you are one of the most hardworking and least appreciated members according to my beliefs.
On May 15 2011 00:06 Ojahh wrote: finally some one wrote the New Testament, to follow up on the 10 commandments...
I giggled, but hopefully this thread stays alive and people can show it to new people in the future.
I doubt the effectiveness of making even 1000 threads about this as many people will never learn that spending 30 seconds to read something benefits you your entire time here and on other forums. Sadly, the only real way to deal with them is to punish them. I know I don't have many posts and I'm not gonna say the "I've been lurking for 8 years herp derp" but I've been registered since 04 and since SC2 has come, the community has expanded and alot of "below poster quality" people have come literally having no recognition of the 10 Commandments or "Rules". Sometimes, I think whether Teamliquid would be better off being the #2 site so all the bad posters leave. I don't want that to happen though, obviously, you guys deserve all the traffic since you are a hard-working site
So long as the rules are there, precise and clear, there will always be a handful of people who abide by them (who wouldn't previously if the rules weren't apparent)
On September 13 2010 04:04 I_Love_Bacon wrote: People think their opinions, or lack thereof, are relevant. People would rather type a boring, mundane, or clueless post than actually take the time to read a thread and contribute to it in a meaningful manner. This leads to any thread with promise being filled after the first couple of pages with virtually hundreds of posts that are verbatim to the earlier ones.
I don't expect every post to be a masterpiece or some ridiculously thorough examination of the topic at hand, but posting standards should be higher for everybody.
Step 1: Read thread/post.
Step 2a: Add something insightful or relevant to the discussion. 2b: Don't have anything insightful or relevant? Try being funny. 2c: Don't have anything funny to say? Don't post.
Step 3: Repeat for all following posts.
I made this post some time ago in a different thread, but it's applicable here as well.
don't do this, it's an almost safe way of getting banned/warned
not only is the closed forum good example to learn what not to do, it's also one of my favorite forums here. so much entertainment value and the banned list is always nice to look at.
Good read! TL.net should just redirect new users to one of these posts/rules thread after they register. Would help get rid of the 'accidental' rule-breakers.
On May 15 2011 01:25 Chef wrote: Don't worry Torte, there's been at least 100 of these threads. One more won't hurt.
yay!
I'm not even near 5,000 posts, so not too bad!
Knowing your posting ability it would be a thread to rule all threads and when you hit 5,000 posts i am sure this thread will be buried and there will be a wave of new posters to inform. The community is growing at a ridiculous pace
On May 15 2011 01:50 LordWeird wrote: As much as I agree with this post, I can't help but feel I've read it a thousand times before.
Well that's the point - you have over 3,000 posts, which means i can assume you understand enough about the community to still be here. It's the new users that fall into these common traps - especially things like posting in the SFW picture thread without a picture!! Or when people TL:DR threads; both of these don't end up good, but who would really know?
On May 15 2011 03:14 MechKing wrote: bkrow, since when did you become part of tl.net staff?
Haha about 3 months ago p4NDemik recruited me and a few other guys; and then recently asked if we wanted the icon - i guess we were on probation to make sure we weren't inept or something? It's actually a lot of fun working on the TLPD stuff i recommend it to anyone that has the opportunity
On May 15 2011 01:50 LordWeird wrote: As much as I agree with this post, I can't help but feel I've read it a thousand times before.
Well that's the point - you have over 3,000 posts, which means i can assume you understand enough about the community to still be here. It's the new users that fall into these common traps - especially things like posting in the SFW picture thread without a picture!! Or when people TL:DR threads; both of these don't end up good, but who would really know?
I think it's more because I've been here since 07 and have seen so many bad trolls and shitty posts. I'm glad you wrote it. I just hope new people take it to heart.
BTW holy shit you're a posting machine... more than me in like a quarter of the time.
On May 14 2011 23:45 Chef wrote: This is the first time I have seen your user name and you are a staff.
Was going to say the same thing. Kind of funny to have somebody make a blog on how TL works who has only been here for a grand total of 7 months...but you do make good points though so I can't really complain.
I always wonder how the moderators deal with 100+ page threads. I can barely read past 20 pages, 16 pages of which are just repeats of the most common responses, usually something like "Great post" or "Good write up" or whatever is the bare minimum is to not get banned or warned, but also to not actually say anything worth reading either (as I_Love_Bacon and others have mentioned here already)
Has the number of moderators and admins increased in proportion to the increase in community size, or is it the same group of people who just have to do more work?
Also, I have to admit I have probably contributed more than my fair share of simple compliments and shallow observations to discussions. I will definitely try to contribute posts that are more substantial in the future. Some times I forget that this is not just a community of like minded individuals, but a competitive community. Sifting through generic junk to find a decent post from a member pisses me off sometimes too, so its kind of embarrassing to realize I am just as much part of the problem. Bleh.
On May 15 2011 01:50 LordWeird wrote: As much as I agree with this post, I can't help but feel I've read it a thousand times before.
Well that's the point - you have over 3,000 posts, which means i can assume you understand enough about the community to still be here. It's the new users that fall into these common traps - especially things like posting in the SFW picture thread without a picture!! Or when people TL:DR threads; both of these don't end up good, but who would really know?
I think it's more because I've been here since 07 and have seen so many bad trolls and shitty posts. I'm glad you wrote it. I just hope new people take it to heart.
BTW holy shit you're a posting machine... more than me in like a quarter of the time.
Haha luckily i work a desk job for a company that hasn't blocked any websites. So my days include TL.net and whenever i can sprinkle in a little bit of work here and there It's also funny you mention that because i would say a lot of my post count comes from Live Reporting in LR threads.
Yes, the live report thread is a definitive ban trap. As a newcomer to the community (from /v/) I honestly thought it was just a thread discussing a tournament. I actually thought the person doing the LRing was a bit strange. Why is the LR really necessary though? I can't really think of a situation where you could access a popular gaming site like teamliquid and not be able to access justin.tv, gom, or ustream. Maybe people with very poor internet connectivity?
It's pretty easy to make the mistake as well. Take the recent gsl finals for example. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222525 Do a cntrl+f, search for live report, it's not there. It's the same on almost every thread in the SC2 tourney section as well.
On May 15 2011 16:00 Zytozux wrote: Yes, the live report thread is a definitive ban trap. As a newcomer to the community (from /v/) I honestly thought it was just a thread discussing a tournament. I actually thought the person doing the LRing was a bit strange. Why is the LR really necessary though? I can't really think of a situation where you could access a popular gaming site like teamliquid and not be able to access justin.tv, gom, or ustream. Maybe people with very poor internet connectivity?
It's pretty easy to make the mistake as well. Take the recent gsl finals for example. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222525 Do a cntrl+f, search for live report, it's not there. It's the same on almost every thread in the SC2 tourney section as well.
There can be many reasons people can't access the stream;
Can't afford pass - GSL for example
Work servers block streaming websites
Internet wont allow streaming sites
Stream goes down in certain locations
People following the tournament on iphone etc
These are just a few i can think of. LRing has helped me stay in the loop so many times i find it an invaluable resource.
On May 15 2011 16:00 Zytozux wrote: Yes, the live report thread is a definitive ban trap. As a newcomer to the community (from /v/) I honestly thought it was just a thread discussing a tournament. I actually thought the person doing the LRing was a bit strange. Why is the LR really necessary though? I can't really think of a situation where you could access a popular gaming site like teamliquid and not be able to access justin.tv, gom, or ustream. Maybe people with very poor internet connectivity?
It's pretty easy to make the mistake as well. Take the recent gsl finals for example. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222525 Do a cntrl+f, search for live report, it's not there. It's the same on almost every thread in the SC2 tourney section as well.
There can be many reasons people can't access the stream;
Can't afford pass - GSL for example
Work servers block streaming websites
Internet wont allow streaming sites
Stream goes down in certain locations
People following the tournament on iphone etc
These are just a few i can think of. LRing has helped me stay in the loop so many times i find it an invaluable resource.
A not technical reason would be that a person has more things to do that are of a higher priority then watching a professional SC2 game. But they still want to know what happens in the game, so by checking the LR Thread from time to time, they can find those stacked, self-replied reports and stay in the loop. Its far better to read those I think then a simple recommendation poll, since it includes the details.
I think this is a relatively useful thread, although I think someone has already stated that if you don't bother to find out about these things you're probably also a person that wouldn't read the OP.
With time though I think people become more involved and aware of what's going on in the site. TL is pretty tricky to navigate when you're new here and it's easy to make some of the mistakes you talked about. Me for example wouldn't have bothered to read your post 2 years ago but back then I also never posted either. I think the common theme of your OP is think before you post, and strangely enough that is really difficult for many.
Very useful post. It can be a bit intimidating joining this site because coming from any other message board, it's hard to differentiate between "We have strict rules for a good reason" and "We have mods who enjoy banning people". Now though I'm almost spoiled by TL, I go to any other site and I can't stand the shit posting I see everywhere. The guidelines are there to make the community as a whole better, and they most definitely do their job
One question though, is there a certain mod (or group of mods) who should be contacted, say, for problems on certain boards? Or will any moderator handle any problem?
Thanks for the write up. I'm sorry every1 on TL feels like things are out of control. Part of having change in the community is adapting. I embrace having SC2 merge in the TL website and I love the community of people. I still love BW more then ever and watch it every day, but I throw SC2 parties. Why? Because I want to embrace the community and enjoy hearing from the people of a new era in eSports. I hope that people maintain being respectful and TL can continue being the top website.
i've been using TL way before i've even made an account just because the informations we need are readily available all over the sites(made account in 2009 for fantasy proleague lmao), i don't see why people need to ask questions through a post anyway D:
oh btw the reason TL.net =/= google is because TL/net >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google, just look at the epic stories ad how-to's you find in the blog sections, far more informative and accurate than what google can give you =D.
Awesome Read! Team Liquid is hands down the best online community I have been a part of and it's because of reasons, many of which you described, and for excellent posts such as this!
Great Post Since I'm new (obviously) this was helpful , and the (rather hard) set of rules you've got makes sense , to keep the quality high I mean. And I will think twice before posting a thread
On May 15 2011 03:21 Kipsate wrote: This should be sent automatically as a PM whenever someone makes a new user account on Teamliquid lol.
No, the 10 is best, however, any warning (advertised or not) could/should link to it.. just cause it can't be bad and it might help genuinely lost posters (lost=new but good people, not lost= get the fu&/ out of here you don't belong)
On May 15 2011 16:57 L3g3nd_ wrote: nice to see stuff like this, when people make an account they should be insta linked to this! (like how you go to disney when you are banned )
i respectfully disagree The trip to see daffy is more of a useful experience if you don't know why this happens (ps: it made me think, i feel it's one of the best way to "separate" casual from hardcore, as such i think it works as is )
On May 16 2011 06:57 Snackbar wrote: Yeah, I find that if you upset the status quo on TL, people are going to start flaming you, regardless of your input. Very interesting I must say.
<3 this particular discussion/concept.
@op: i think you being "relatively" new is a plus as op poster. Thank you for all the newbs who might turn out to be hidden gems
I have yet to come across a bigger forum on the internet without a post like this in it. They are always without exceptions made by the same kind of users, who are never actually a mod themselves. Their own posting history contains bland, 100% non-controversial posts without the slightest interesting content in them, and they pride themselves on always making sure the first letter in each sentence is capital. They have never themselves been close to even getting the slightest warning, despite acting experts on the matter.
Mods are just people who have a position where they help do cleanup. They are janitors. All this treating them with silk gloves, carefully stepping around them and as in these kinds of threads' case trying to suck up to them consolidates their artificial authority. It is good that mods exist, and it is good that people follow rules - but this submissiveness towards what could often be just a teenage boy, by an educated adult shows why internet communities and their heirarchys look so wrong.
People should respect moderators, but no more than they respect other users. Likewise mods should give proper respect back, like in a civilised community. Anything else is so medieval.
On the subject of LR threads, I think that only certain privileged posters (Trusted LRers) should be able to post the actual live report, and then there would be some kind of an IRC channel for people to talk amongst eachother about what is happening and react to exciting things.
I have seen way too many "WOOOOW" posts in the LR threads that make finding the real live reports difficult.
I have yet to come across a bigger forum on the internet without a post like this in it. They are always without exceptions made by the same kind of users, who are never actually a mod themselves. Their own posting history contains bland, 100% non-controversial posts without the slightest interesting content in them, and they pride themselves on always making sure the first letter in each sentence is capital. They have never themselves been close to even getting the slightest warning, despite acting experts on the matter.
Mods are just people who have a position where they help do cleanup. They are janitors. All this treating them with silk gloves, carefully stepping around them and as in these kinds of threads' case trying to suck up to them consolidates their artificial authority. It is good that mods exist, and it is good that people follow rules - but this submissiveness towards what could often be just a teenage boy, by an educated adult shows why internet communities and their heirarchys look so wrong.
People should respect moderators, but no more than they respect other users. Likewise mods should give proper respect back, like in a civilized community. Anything else is so medieval.
Wouldn't it be nice if people respected other users? Utopian even. You wont find respected members of the community groveling at the moderators feet. Those members that do are akin to children seeing bad kids get in trouble and sucking up. The bad kids should be embarrassed. Regardless of age. Artificial authority is not accurate. They have authority over your ability to post in these forums. No more no less. consequently all the rules are regarding this. Imagine if i wrote "lawl great thread bro -_-" on my wiki at work? You follow the rules of a website or you are no longer privileged to view it. You sound like a child complaining about a student who is a "goody two shoes"
On May 16 2011 21:25 diverzee wrote: I have yet to come across a bigger forum on the internet without a post like this in it. They are always without exceptions made by the same kind of users, who are never actually a mod themselves. Their own posting history contains bland, 100% non-controversial posts without the slightest interesting content in them, and they pride themselves on always making sure the first letter in each sentence is capital. They have never themselves been close to even getting the slightest warning, despite acting experts on the matter.
Mods are just people who have a position where they help do cleanup. They are janitors. All this treating them with silk gloves, carefully stepping around them and as in these kinds of threads' case trying to suck up to them consolidates their artificial authority. It is good that mods exist, and it is good that people follow rules - but this submissiveness towards what could often be just a teenage boy, by an educated adult shows why internet communities and their heirarchys look so wrong.
People should respect moderators, but no more than they respect other users. Likewise mods should give proper respect back, like in a civilised community. Anything else is so medieval.
Lol if you don't believe people in a higher level of authority or status in a community should receive a different level of respect, then i don't quite understand how you function.
Teacher and Student: They both have respect for each other, but the student can never say or do things that a teacher can. This goes with so many other relationships in the world. It's funny that you feel that just because this community is an online one, the same social norms do not apply. If you see the moderators as just the "janitors" i don't see you lasting very long.
If it makes you think that i am the 'cool' kid like the one that gets an afterschool detention because he needs to look tough - i have been warned and banned from this community before. All of these occassions making me want to improve my posting habits so i can stick around longer.
What is even more funny are your implications; holy batman i am not a moderator and therefore why should i care about this place!? It is that kind of thinking - specifically YOUR kind of thinking - that results in forums turning into a sesspool of arrogant, ignorant flame artists. TL.net has strict guidelines, and they are there for a very good reason. The same reasons that allow you to enjoy this community the way it is - it has always prided itself on quality control, thereby having a strong stance against terrible posters. As to my posting history; i have no idea how you were able to read through 4,700 posts so quickly, but then again - you see yourself as some sort of superman right? Just because you like to write your posts with long sentences doesn't make you very special; look i am doing it right now! :O
As for the capital letters at the start of my sentences; believe it or not but this is the english language (omg did i miss a capital letter? I don't know!?) It is also one of the guidelines for posting on this website (not the capital letters specifically, but proper text as opposed to short hand.) Funnily enough your insulting my posting history with a mere 118 of your own; i hope one day you get a star next to your username so i can take this back, but walk the walk before you so willingly talk the talk.
This thread was meant to be helpful; but i guess you had to get it all out of your system i hope it helped in that way.
On May 16 2011 21:25 diverzee wrote: I have yet to come across a bigger forum on the internet without a post like this in it. They are always without exceptions made by the same kind of users, who are never actually a mod themselves. Their own posting history contains bland, 100% non-controversial posts without the slightest interesting content in them, and they pride themselves on always making sure the first letter in each sentence is capital. They have never themselves been close to even getting the slightest warning, despite acting experts on the matter.
Mods are just people who have a position where they help do cleanup. They are janitors. All this treating them with silk gloves, carefully stepping around them and as in these kinds of threads' case trying to suck up to them consolidates their artificial authority. It is good that mods exist, and it is good that people follow rules - but this submissiveness towards what could often be just a teenage boy, by an educated adult shows why internet communities and their heirarchys look so wrong.
People should respect moderators, but no more than they respect other users. Likewise mods should give proper respect back, like in a civilised community. Anything else is so medieval.
Lol if you don't believe people in a higher level of authority or status in a community should receive a different level of respect, then i don't quite understand how you function.
Teacher and Student: They both have respect for each other, but the student can never say or do things that a teacher can. This goes with so many other relationships in the world. It's funny that you feel that just because this community is an online one, the same social norms do not apply. If you see the moderators as just the "janitors" i don't see you lasting very long.
If it makes you think that i am the 'cool' kid like the one that gets an afterschool detention because he needs to look tough - i have been warned and banned from this community before. All of these occassions making me want to improve my posting habits so i can stick around longer.
What is even more funny are your implications; holy batman i am not a moderator and therefore why should i care about this place!? It is that kind of thinking - specifically YOUR kind of thinking - that results in forums turning into a sesspool of arrogant, ignorant flame artists. TL.net has strict guidelines, and they are there for a very good reason. The same reasons that allow you to enjoy this community the way it is - it has always prided itself on quality control, thereby having a strong stance against terrible posters. As to my posting history; i have no idea how you were able to read through 4,700 posts so quickly, but then again - you see yourself as some sort of superman right? Just because you like to write your posts with long sentences doesn't make you very special; look i am doing it right now! :O
As for the capital letters at the start of my sentences; believe it or not but this is the english language (omg did i miss a capital letter? I don't know!?) It is also one of the guidelines for posting on this website (not the capital letters specifically, but proper text as opposed to short hand.) Funnily enough your insulting my posting history with a mere 118 of your own; i hope one day you get a star next to your username so i can take this back, but walk the walk before you so willingly talk the talk.
This thread was meant to be helpful; but i guess you had to get it all out of your system i hope it helped in that way.
This isn't a school. Moderators aren't your teachers you need to suck up to in order to get good grades. If that's what you believe then your personality seems even more in accordance with what I imagined a non-mod posting a thread like this would be. Moderators are people like everyone else, who enjoy to have more responsibility and moderation rights. Other than that they are like us. They could very well be some high school drop out teenage kid, and some people still treat them as superior. Don't you see how humiliating it is to crawl before people as if they had more value than you?
Treat people with respect, but respect yourself too. Being a brownnoser and sucking up to people with artificial authority doesn't get you any rewards good enough to lose your dignity for.
I have yet to come across a bigger forum on the internet without a post like this in it. They are always without exceptions made by the same kind of users, who are never actually a mod themselves. Their own posting history contains bland, 100% non-controversial posts without the slightest interesting content in them, and they pride themselves on always making sure the first letter in each sentence is capital. They have never themselves been close to even getting the slightest warning, despite acting experts on the matter.
Mods are just people who have a position where they help do cleanup. They are janitors. All this treating them with silk gloves, carefully stepping around them and as in these kinds of threads' case trying to suck up to them consolidates their artificial authority. It is good that mods exist, and it is good that people follow rules - but this submissiveness towards what could often be just a teenage boy, by an educated adult shows why internet communities and their heirarchys look so wrong.
People should respect moderators, but no more than they respect other users. Likewise mods should give proper respect back, like in a civilized community. Anything else is so medieval.
Wouldn't it be nice if people respected other users? Utopian even. You wont find respected members of the community groveling at the moderators feet. Those members that do are akin to children seeing bad kids get in trouble and sucking up. The bad kids should be embarrassed. Regardless of age. Artificial authority is not accurate. They have authority over your ability to post in these forums. No more no less. consequently all the rules are regarding this. Imagine if i wrote "lawl great thread bro -_-" on my wiki at work? You follow the rules of a website or you are no longer privileged to view it. You sound like a child complaining about a student who is a "goody two shoes"
Look, what I am saying is "don't treat people as if they were of greater value than yourself if there is no reason to think they do". Goody two shoes people are good, and people being respectful to eachother important. But showing too much respect, or rather submission towards moderators is humiliating. They do their job, they took it upon themselves, but they're just peeps with a nerdy interest like the rest of us.
I have yet to come across a bigger forum on the internet without a post like this in it. They are always without exceptions made by the same kind of users, who are never actually a mod themselves. Their own posting history contains bland, 100% non-controversial posts without the slightest interesting content in them, and they pride themselves on always making sure the first letter in each sentence is capital. They have never themselves been close to even getting the slightest warning, despite acting experts on the matter.
Mods are just people who have a position where they help do cleanup. They are janitors. All this treating them with silk gloves, carefully stepping around them and as in these kinds of threads' case trying to suck up to them consolidates their artificial authority. It is good that mods exist, and it is good that people follow rules - but this submissiveness towards what could often be just a teenage boy, by an educated adult shows why internet communities and their heirarchys look so wrong.
People should respect moderators, but no more than they respect other users. Likewise mods should give proper respect back, like in a civilized community. Anything else is so medieval.
Wouldn't it be nice if people respected other users? Utopian even. You wont find respected members of the community groveling at the moderators feet. Those members that do are akin to children seeing bad kids get in trouble and sucking up. The bad kids should be embarrassed. Regardless of age. Artificial authority is not accurate. They have authority over your ability to post in these forums. No more no less. consequently all the rules are regarding this. Imagine if i wrote "lawl great thread bro -_-" on my wiki at work? You follow the rules of a website or you are no longer privileged to view it. You sound like a child complaining about a student who is a "goody two shoes"
Look, what I am saying is "don't treat people as if they were of greater value than yourself if there is no reason to think they do". Goody two shoes people are good, and people being respectful to eachother important. But showing too much respect, or rather submission towards moderators is humiliating. They do their job, they took it upon themselves, but they're just peeps with a nerdy interest like the rest of us.
Agreed. All the people re quoting the celebrities and agreeing 100%, for pages of a thread after the comment is annoying to us, and probably the poster, but this OP has nothing to do with that. Several of the comments may. I agree that the sucking up is pretty humiliating and no more of a contributing post than something much more stupid. I like this OP because i like the old teamliquid and if everyone followed these rules it would not mean any more sucking up but much less stupidity.
EDIT: It really is like an infection many are bearing to coexist with. People don't know what they are getting into when they sign up and they should. This is their house.
On May 16 2011 21:25 diverzee wrote: I have yet to come across a bigger forum on the internet without a post like this in it. They are always without exceptions made by the same kind of users, who are never actually a mod themselves. Their own posting history contains bland, 100% non-controversial posts without the slightest interesting content in them, and they pride themselves on always making sure the first letter in each sentence is capital. They have never themselves been close to even getting the slightest warning, despite acting experts on the matter.
Mods are just people who have a position where they help do cleanup. They are janitors. All this treating them with silk gloves, carefully stepping around them and as in these kinds of threads' case trying to suck up to them consolidates their artificial authority. It is good that mods exist, and it is good that people follow rules - but this submissiveness towards what could often be just a teenage boy, by an educated adult shows why internet communities and their heirarchys look so wrong.
People should respect moderators, but no more than they respect other users. Likewise mods should give proper respect back, like in a civilised community. Anything else is so medieval.
Lol if you don't believe people in a higher level of authority or status in a community should receive a different level of respect, then i don't quite understand how you function.
Teacher and Student: They both have respect for each other, but the student can never say or do things that a teacher can. This goes with so many other relationships in the world. It's funny that you feel that just because this community is an online one, the same social norms do not apply. If you see the moderators as just the "janitors" i don't see you lasting very long.
If it makes you think that i am the 'cool' kid like the one that gets an afterschool detention because he needs to look tough - i have been warned and banned from this community before. All of these occassions making me want to improve my posting habits so i can stick around longer.
What is even more funny are your implications; holy batman i am not a moderator and therefore why should i care about this place!? It is that kind of thinking - specifically YOUR kind of thinking - that results in forums turning into a sesspool of arrogant, ignorant flame artists. TL.net has strict guidelines, and they are there for a very good reason. The same reasons that allow you to enjoy this community the way it is - it has always prided itself on quality control, thereby having a strong stance against terrible posters. As to my posting history; i have no idea how you were able to read through 4,700 posts so quickly, but then again - you see yourself as some sort of superman right? Just because you like to write your posts with long sentences doesn't make you very special; look i am doing it right now! :O
As for the capital letters at the start of my sentences; believe it or not but this is the english language (omg did i miss a capital letter? I don't know!?) It is also one of the guidelines for posting on this website (not the capital letters specifically, but proper text as opposed to short hand.) Funnily enough your insulting my posting history with a mere 118 of your own; i hope one day you get a star next to your username so i can take this back, but walk the walk before you so willingly talk the talk.
This thread was meant to be helpful; but i guess you had to get it all out of your system i hope it helped in that way.
This isn't a school. Moderators aren't your teachers you need to suck up to in order to get good grades. If that's what you believe then your personality seems even more in accordance with what I imagined a non-mod posting a thread like this would be. Moderators are people like everyone else, who enjoy to have more responsibility and moderation rights. Other than that they are like us. They could very well be some high school drop out teenage kid, and some people still treat them as superior. Don't you see how humiliating it is to crawl before people as if they had more value than you?
Treat people with respect, but respect yourself too. Being a brownnoser and sucking up to people with artificial authority doesn't get you any rewards good enough to lose your dignity for.
You are obviously struggling with the concept of explanations by analogy; it isn't about getting grades - it's about respect. It isn't about sucking up, it is about respecting the people that spend hours making sure this site continues to exist - it seems you missed that lesson growing up.
I seriously cannot comprehend why you can't take this thread exactly for what it is - a helpful guide for new users to avoid getting bans or warnings that may not be so obvious. It has nothing to do with sucking up, nothing to do with praising the moderation staff and everything to do with sticking around in this community. It was meant to be helpful, not 'brown-nosing' as you put it. But thank you for successfully derailing
But you go ahead and judge from a distance; i suppose you would rather complain about something than provide a solution to it? Again - this is meant to help new users, not make anyone feel any better about themselves.
Don't ever insult your fellow teamliquid users! Don't post image macro's! Don't post terrible one liner posts which are only a couple words long! After just coming off a 30 day ban, I make a promise to you teamliquid. I will endeavor to use correct grammar and correct posting habits for the rest of my teamliquid life.
I don't see how anyone can find these rules "harsh". Anytime someone complains about a ban on TL on another site, their post is actually something horrible like "this player was a cheesy faggot" or "fuck xx and yy" or something not worth anything.
It's not a freedom of speech issue. It's a don't be a dickwad issue. I think it's a waste of time to argue with people who refuse to drop that issue.
On May 16 2011 21:25 diverzee wrote: I have yet to come across a bigger forum on the internet without a post like this in it. They are always without exceptions made by the same kind of users, who are never actually a mod themselves. Their own posting history contains bland, 100% non-controversial posts without the slightest interesting content in them, and they pride themselves on always making sure the first letter in each sentence is capital. They have never themselves been close to even getting the slightest warning, despite acting experts on the matter.
Mods are just people who have a position where they help do cleanup. They are janitors. All this treating them with silk gloves, carefully stepping around them and as in these kinds of threads' case trying to suck up to them consolidates their artificial authority. It is good that mods exist, and it is good that people follow rules - but this submissiveness towards what could often be just a teenage boy, by an educated adult shows why internet communities and their heirarchys look so wrong.
People should respect moderators, but no more than they respect other users. Likewise mods should give proper respect back, like in a civilised community. Anything else is so medieval.
Please expand on this and start a new post for discussion (General Forum maybe), o blog it. This is an excellent idea.
Definatley a great post for new users. I remembered getting temp banned for martyring when Slayers won the GSTL haha...
On topic, I always thought that events should have an LR thread and a separate thread for people wanting to talk about the event. In the rare case an event won't stream for me or I miss it, it always seems far too much work to look through the clutter in the LR to actually get a good idea of what happened. Just a thought.
The section about the LR threads is a BIG issue for me. As someone not in a convienent time zone for events such as TSL, NASL, IPL, etc. I utilise the LR threads. As I am usually bored at work so I just sit on TL all day. But time and time again I get frustrated over the fact that I am so unaware with what is happening in the game, as all i can seem to read is people saying "i hate "x" caster' or 'Stream lag blah blah..'. This makes me very frustrated. As i often find myself trawling through the constant BS complaints then see a comment like 'IdrA pushing out with, 20 roaches, Kiwikaki looks dead' (example only) and yet i had NO idea that the game had started!! Just on a side note, bkrow, I am always happier when i see you posting in the LR threads, as you keep me well informed, so i find myself only reading your comments Great blog!!
Man, times have changed so much. I remember the times when OPs used to be fucking garbage and everyone loved it. One liners and trash all over the forums, but everyone was fine with it. Now, there's just so many people here that it's not remotely possible.
I sometimes wonder to myself, if I were to have registered today, how long would I last before I got banned?
On May 18 2011 04:39 Roffles wrote: Man, times have changed so much. I remember the times when OPs used to be fucking garbage and everyone loved it. One liners and trash all over the forums, but everyone was fine with it. Now, there's just so many people here that it's not remotely possible.
I sometimes wonder to myself, if I were to have registered today, how long would I last before I got banned?
The worst thing is that new users, for some reason, naturally see this site as this: And on the Bnet forums, among other places, they let you ask dumb questions. Stupid, stupid, stupid. People can't use the search function on said website to find a similar question? Why not? Do you need to make your own personal thread that everyone is focused on the op?
On May 19 2011 01:15 Kinetik_Inferno wrote: The worst thing is that new users, for some reason, naturally see this site as this: And on the Bnet forums, among other places, they let you ask dumb questions. Stupid, stupid, stupid. People can't use the search function on said website to find a similar question? Why not? Do you need to make your own personal thread that everyone is focused on the op?
:r
I'm not sure if it's yours, but I have to say that that image is beautiful. It sums up so many concerns all at once
On May 19 2011 01:15 Kinetik_Inferno wrote: The worst thing is that new users, for some reason, naturally see this site as this: And on the Bnet forums, among other places, they let you ask dumb questions. Stupid, stupid, stupid. People can't use the search function on said website to find a similar question? Why not? Do you need to make your own personal thread that everyone is focused on the op?
:r
I'm not sure if it's yours, but I have to say that that image is beautiful. It sums up so many concerns all at once
I just threw it together myself, in about two minutes. I've seen other versions of it too.
On May 14 2011 21:37 bkrow wrote: I thought i was doing everything right – but then i got warned/banned/thread closed!
The best way to understand what happened is to PM a moderator. A useful technique is to head to the closed threads section, jump on the automated ban list (another very entertaining part of the community) and spot a moderator that is active. Obviously if you see one who has just posted it is much easier. Click PM and ask them why you got warned/banned; if you remain calm and polite they will most certainly hear you out. There is also this:
This is located in the Website Feedback Section– another great resource; if you feel something needs to be improved on the site, post away and you will most certainly get a response.
have been in some forum orientated communites now and tl's staff is really one of the nicest and most helpful staff out there, especially if you handle everything with respect. i actually like tl even more for that! oh...and good write up btw. should be standard as "advanced guideline" right after you registered and accepted the toc
On May 26 2011 05:48 timtwins wrote: Great job with the writeup. This will really help new users.
I think most new users who come from places like 4chan, reddit/r/starcraft, and the b.net forums don't bother to read the rules because they haven't heard of this strange and foreign thing called "moderation", and they simply assume that the mods here are as lenient and negligent as those over there.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Iaqyc.jpg)
I mean if it justified it's own thread a mod could move it but anyway, glad you guys found it interesting hehe :p
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/E697x.jpg)
