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I've been frustrated at both the IPL and the NASL for a few weeks. Mainly because the live broadcasts, which i much prefer over vods, run at similar times. I thought about why the two fight over 4 hours of time, instead of using the many hours before both leagues are held.
The goal of this blog is not to bash either of the leagues, but to bring up the issue of broadcasting times, and why having overlapping shows/leagues can hurt.
I'm sure there are fans of both of these two leagues, and I don't mean to take anything away from either of them. Both of them (in time) have amazing production quality, and great casting, as well as some great games. Having said that, I feel that the direct competitive nature of both of the leagues, as well as their broadcasting schedules, does nothing more then hurt both leagues.
In response to everyone who jumps on the "prime time is what they fight for", I would like to focus on the what "Prime Time" broadcasting hours are, and their relationship with internet streams.
+ Show Spoiler +Prime Time is, for the most part, 8pm - 11pm, every day (PST), or 7pm - 10pm CST/EST. This is a standard that has existed in television for a long time. Now for sporting events, they usually run during the day, from 2pm to around 7pm (usually in the NA).
Now, the IPL starts right before the NASL, at 5pm, and runs for about 3-4 hours. This means, that it runs up and to the prime time, but not over it. Both leagues seem to favor starting before Prime Time broadcasting hours, at least in the NA. This may be due to the broadcast being too large to fit during prime time, but IPL (atleast) doesn't often touch those "prime time" hours.
Now both of these leagues numbers pale in comparison to those of the TSL. The TSL gets around 3-4x the amount of viewers, and starts mid-day (11am PST).
Now how could this be? Aren't Prime Time broadcasting hours supposed to be when a majority of will be watching tv? While this concept is important for a lot of cable programming and scheduling,
It does not affect sports viewing (starcraft is a sport), because event viewing runs on different rules then does tuning into your favorite reality tv show each day.
It doesn't take into account the scope of time zones of people who watch internet streams, as these cause a variance in the times which are "actually" prime time broadcasting hours.
It represents a demographic which doesn't match that of people who play/watch StarCraft. Im doing a bit far out with this one in reguards to facts, but most of us don't see ourselves as a "normal" person. (somewhat referencing personality tests on TL)
Prime Time for StarCraft broadcasts is a completely different concept then that of Prime Time on tv, for those reasons. There isn't a set good time to start or end a league, just as there isn't enough data on viewership to even guess at what those times might be. If you look at a recent poll on TL, 30% come from a CET timezone, 31% come from a EST/CST timezone, 14% come from GMT, and 13% come from a PST time zone. This means that there isn't a set ideal timezone to choose when selecting broadcasting times.
TLDR - There isn't a "Prime Time" broadcasting time in regards to the Internet, as the amount of countries and timezones that tune into each league make the start/end time completely irrelevant.
Old "Biased" Stuff...
+ Show Spoiler +Comments on Quality+ Show Spoiler +For the most part, the production quality of the IPL has no rival, including free 1080p and free vods. The folks at WellPlayed.org did an amazing job at ensuring they took a lot of viewers away from NASL. Now my concern is just that. While the IPL has quality, it lacks personality, and a good player base. There is no back and forth of a duo commentary, and I would reguard it as just watching youtube videos of the solo casters for a few hours, abet well produced. Prize Pool aside, I would much rather tune into the games over at the NASL, if they quality was about the same. Sure there are 1080p, and vods, and what not for free, but I just find myself not caring that much about the IPL. Now, it seems that the IGN wants to take viewers away from the NASL. Instead of working with them schedule wise, they place their broadcast schedule right over the NASL. Broadcast schedule for the NASL has been known for quite some time, yet IGN just decides the best time would be during those hours? Sure there are other reasons for this, but starting 30min before the NASL's preshow (meaning 1 hour before games) means they position themselves to have the higher viewer count for the remainder of their broadcast, due to the investment of time and "loyality" this helps build. This type of scheduling bad for both leagues. It cuts the viewership of both in about half. The direct competition between two companies, with a very limited viewer base, has far reaching consequences for sponsors, and decisions regarding the future is each league. When people look at both leagues fighting for a few thousand viewers every day, the numbers just aren't there. Think Of It Like This:You and your sibling have 3 cupcakes between the two of you. Instead of dividing them, you fight over who gets the last one, because both of you think only one deserves it. That's basically whats happening here. Each cupcake represents the time people watch sc2. Now in this scenario, after a while, the other two cupcakes get taken away, meaning less for the both of you. Sure one might get a bigger chunk of the remaining, but over all, there is more market time (cupcake) out there. If IGN worked something out with the NASL, and broadcast before or after, not during, it would be a few more hours of league play per day, which means that overall, more time is spent watching. Also, I would like to bring up the fact that the day9 daily runs during the mid-game of the NASL, as well as (sometimes) the end of the IPL. Now the daily draws a good 10k viewers on a NASL day, but only 5k when the NASL is broadcasting. Sometimes its as low as 3k when both of them are on. Perhaps I'm over-reacting a bit, and perhaps this problem will eventually fix itself. Maybe I'm being too cynical in regards to the times that IGN picked. Did they really want to compete with the NASL? Maybe its even a bias I have because I feel some sort of loyalty towards the NASL, as I was there, excited, and waiting for it to launch. I guess I just wanted to point this out, and see if its something worth mentioning. Anyone else feel that there is way too much sc to watch at one time, so you don't end up watching any?
The NASL announced its broadcast schedule at the end of February (a while before the IPL was announced). They stated that they had an ambitious project which would take up a majority of the "Prime Time" broadcast hours for NA (which is less then half its audience), and they would also broadcast again for their EU viewers. They do a double broadcast because they charge for access to their vods.
Now IGN, being a competitive company, decided that its in their best interests to broadcast along the same time. Their broadcast wasn't as important, as they have free vods. However, they also have free 1080p, and their production quality is much higher. They choose ideal times to compete for the NASL viewers.
However, because of certain factors, their numbers, for the most part, have been less then that of the NASL broadcast. Also, since the start of the IPL, numbers are down a little bit for the NASL, during the time when the IPL is on.
This is most likely due to the IPL having free vods, and it not being advertised as heavily in the community as the NASL, nor as hyped.
Now the viewer market can be judged to be around 100k people, as there are usually around 10-20k people watching streams at any given time, and the highest broadcasting numbers usually reach about 50-60k people (TSL).
This market represents the difference most small time tv shows on cable see between episodes. However small that market is, it can be argued that it is growing, as starcraft is becoming more accessible to the masses. However, growth is smaller right now, due to the game being in between expansions. (Communities usually experience their largest periods of growth at the release of new sequels and expansions to their game.)
This means that during the broadcast of the NASL and IPL, the market becomes somewhat over saturated with content, and the numbers of viewers are much smaller then they should be, if one league were to be broadcasting. Now, one may argue that they both are focusing on the "prime time" market, but if you read the above, thats not wholly true. As it turns out, they are just in competition with each other, seeking no benefit other then brand loyalty, or disloyalty.
If both NASL and IGN worked something out, it would benefit both of the broadcasts viewing numbers, and create a dynamic between the two leagues, which might in turn generate more "live" viewer interest (think of the NFC and AFC, where there can be a live back and forth before/after a broadcast).
TLDR - The broadcast times of both the NASL and IPL cause a large drop in viewers for both leagues, causing less interest by corporate figures, and overall hurting esports. Scheduling them at different times means there is more time spent watching league play, and overall, more viewers for everyone.
Notes:
This is not a flame post. I don't have any issue with either league, and love watching them both live. The issue comes from the fact that during most of the day, 3-7pm central, there are no leagues being run, and both of these leagues choose 8-12 to show their content.
While coming up with the title, I originally didn't want to be too bold. Sure I can name it something more revelent, like "Broadcasting Times Issue", but I do think this is a serious thing that needs to be addressed/talked about. The root cause of this is a conflict between the NASL and IPL broadcasting times, which i would point the finger at the IPL for causing.
  
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e-Sports is growing. Eventually, someone will have to stream at the same time as others.
This is happening now, and as long as e-sports keeps growing, it will happen more often.
I don't think it's that bad, you have the VODs, just watch them, it's not like you can't see the games at all.
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I think it's a valid concern and in the long run I don't think we're going to see that much of this kind of overlap, but the NASL broadcast is pretty freaking long and it's on 5 days a week, it's not like the IPL has any other place to go. The ridiculous number of games they broadcast is the root of the problem if you want to call it that, but I don't think that's the future for SC2. Less matches with more hype work much better IMO.
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On April 29 2011 09:32 Tschis wrote:
e-Sports is growing. Eventually, someone will have to stream at the same time as others.
This is happening now, and as long as e-sports keeps growing, it will happen more often.
I don't think it's that bad, you have the VODs, just watch them, it's not like you can't see the games at all.
I do agree, but my worry is that the IPL isn't adding that many more viewers. If both leagues were at different times, they both would have around 14k viewers or so. but when they both broadcast, its around 7k-9k per stream. While this is more individual people watching at one time, it also means that overall, less time is spent watching starcraft.
I think of it similar to the California gold rush. People can fight over a small plot of land with a lot of known gold. But some of the richest people found their own plots of land. There was less there for sure, but it was more for them.
On April 29 2011 09:36 hugman wrote:
I think it's a valid concern and in the long run I don't think we're going to see that much of this kind of overlap, but the NASL broadcast is pretty freaking long and it's on 5 days a week, it's not like the IPL has any other place to go.
There are several "prime" hours before the IPL/NASL start. There can be some overlap, but having a majority overlap is worse.
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On April 29 2011 09:41 hellsan631 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 09:32 Tschis wrote:
e-Sports is growing. Eventually, someone will have to stream at the same time as others.
This is happening now, and as long as e-sports keeps growing, it will happen more often.
I don't think it's that bad, you have the VODs, just watch them, it's not like you can't see the games at all. I do agree, but my worry is that the IPL isn't adding that many more viewers. If both leagues were at different times, they both would have around 14k viewers or so. but when they both broadcast, its around 7k-9k per stream. While this is more individual people watching at one time, it also means that overall, less time is spent watching starcraft. I think of it similar to the California gold rush. People can fight over a small plot of land with a lot of known gold. But some of the richest people found their own plots of land. There was less there for sure, but it was more for them.
i dont think that many people have 7 hours a day to dedicate to watching starcraft
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It does increase the possibility of one league shutting down, which I'm fine with. I prefer one to the other, so I don't feel the need for both to exist.
This is kind of "harsh" and yes, it might not be very nice, but that's my honest opinion.
It really doesn't matter which one I prefer, but yes, consolidation wouldn't be a bad thing in my opinion. That said, most viewers I assume will choose just to follow one league or another. Right now, I feel there's so much SC2 that it's pretty much impossible to follow ALL of it, so people are already making decisions as it is. Western E-SPORTS vs. GSL, whether or not Dreamhack is worth watching, MLG, TSL.
With how much stuff is out, something's gotta give.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
Have you thought about the flip side; that competition causes both leagues to step up their game?
Plus, the identity of SC2 esports is far from fully formed. Its a bit too early to worry about its imminent death...
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I'm sure both broadcast times were decided long ago. Who's to say it's IGN's fault because they started their league later? Besides IPL is only a couple of weeks and then it'll be gone.
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I don't think having both leagues run at the same time makes that much of a difference. Think about it this way: If the airing times of the two leagues were different, who would watch 5+ hours of matches back to back every day? I think it's pretty simplistic to assume that the NASL would start out with 10-15k viewers and the viewer count would stay the same for the IPL later.
Plus, I'm pretty sure the IPL gets a majority of their views from VODs anyways.
Actually, since they both air at a comfortable US time, both leagues might actually have a higher accumulated viewer count than if, say, the IPL would air 3 hours later.
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I don't think its a huge deal right now. Consider by analogy watching most of any professional sports. Any given Sunday in the fall, you have multiple football games being played at the same time and overlapping each other and viewers have to flip back and forth to check scores and such. And it works fine as long as the games aren't super important. Though the analogy isn't perfect because you could have the same player on both streams in starcraft, you can also have multiple streams open.. So I would conclude that as long as its not the later stages of tournament play and finals, overlap really is not a big deal...
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It's annoying that it practically split some of the community. It's almost becoming clique-like in regards to people who watch the NASL exclusively and IPL exclusively.
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On April 29 2011 09:53 mikyaJ wrote:
It's annoying that it practically split some of the community. It's almost becoming clique-like in regards to people who watch the NASL exclusively and IPL exclusively.
I think this was sorta true for a few days but it's petering out. Nobody's really going to give a shit about who watches what in two months.
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Yea, to be honest I enjoy both for differing reasons. The IPL has sick quality but the switch-off of casters isn't very appealing to me. For the NASL, I love iNcontrol's analysis and the Gretorp-iNcontrol combo is improving.
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I always watch dual, tripple or sometimes even more streams at the same time. When games overlap I just mute one stream but still follow the action of the games on both.
Or just watch vods later. I think it's great that we have a choice.
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How is a free, better quality hurting Esports? Maybe it hurts NASL, but it also gives them motives to one up their game.
Haven't you guys realized OGN and MBC air proleagues at the same time...
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Someone could very easily turn this around and say NASL, with their "4 guys and a dream" approach are harming esports way more because they are taking viewers from IGN, a company with far greater resources and a much greater chance of blowing your 'esports' up and getting it into the mainstream.
I mean at the end of the day, if your only concern is the proliferation of esports and getting it out to the masses, wouldn't it make way more sense for you to be accusing NASL of hurting esports if they are getting in IGN's way?
Of course to do that would make you an idiot because they have every right in the world to give it their best effort to create the biggest NA league if that's their desire.
But as the very first White Knight of ESPORTS I must beg you to stop using its name to spread your own biased opinions
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Proleague had 2 games broadcast on different channels at the same time for a long time, it's just juvenile people who blow this up for sc2. I'm kinda sad people can't just enjoy both shows for what they are, they don't have to constantly argue which is better to hide their own insecurities that they chose the "wrong" one to watch. There isn't a right/wrong choice, just watch for the games and for the players, people need to stop being right all the time, that's what's hurting esports, the vocal minority of idiots, not the tournament hosts.
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I'm glad that they do this. I can switch between streams and find players that I like to follow or entertaining matchups during the whole thing. I greatly value my time, so if a PvP or a TvP (I'm a Zerg) of two lesser known players pops up, I can switch streams. If it were only one league, then I'd go play HoN or LoL with my friends. So honestly, I think this helps both of the leagues because one interesting match is happening almost all of the time.
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It's unfortunate that they take the same time slot, but I just want to note that one of my friends who is not into SC2 got into it because of IPL. I think IPL is great and can pull in many new viewers!
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watch ipl live and then watch the EU restream of NASL
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If we were gonna make it so that every tournament got its own airing slot, we'd never get through all the tournaments in a reasonable time.
It's not hurting esports. IPL and NASL air at the same time. You know what will happen? People will go and watch the better one, meaning that the worse one will die out. How is that bad for esports?
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I like how you claim not to want to criticize either league while calling out only one of them in the title. You also immediately talk about how the only thing the IPL has going for it is production quality at the very beginning of your first section. You claim to not want to favor one over the other but your entire post is talking about how the IPL is trying to undercut the NASL or about how they've done something wrong. It's like the StarCraft version of Fox "Fair and Balanced."
So, why are they at the same time? Well, they're daily leagues and, surprise surprise, that's prime time. Why should the IPL take a vastly inferior time just because the NASL was there first? They'd be deliberately crippling themselves! You're asking an organization that, in the end, has to make money to take a purposeful disadvantage rather than letting them compete with a competitor without a handicap. The best part is that you're saying this at a time when both leagues are still brand new and the IPL is just barely out of the gate, giving you no true basis for any of your claims.
I'm still a little shocked I actually replied to this.
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8748 Posts
On April 29 2011 11:40 floor exercise wrote:
Someone could very easily turn this around and say NASL, with their "4 guys and a dream" approach are harming esports way more because they are taking viewers from IGN, a company with far greater resources and a much greater chance of blowing your 'esports' up and getting it into the mainstream.
I mean at the end of the day, if your only concern is the proliferation of esports and getting it out to the masses, wouldn't it make way more sense for you to be accusing NASL of hurting esports if they are getting in IGN's way?
Of course to do that would make you an idiot because they have every right in the world to give it their best effort to create the biggest NA league if that's their desire.
But as the very first White Knight of ESPORTS I must beg you to stop using its name to spread your own biased opinions
I think you are taking this way too many steps too far. You only need to address whether or not you think IPL scheduling their broadcasts at the same time period as NASL is good or bad for esports. You pretty much ignored any analysis on that discussion, which is the only discussion relevant to the blog, and went off on a bunch of tangents and way beyond the scope of the blog :o The blog could have been more focused itself, but you seem to have zoomed in on the passage put within spoiler tags of all places...
If what you care about is who is harming esports more, then go write a blog about that. If you want to address whether or not IPL's scheduling decision is good or bad for esports, then go for it in a reply here.
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On April 29 2011 11:51 Count9 wrote:
Proleague had 2 games broadcast on different channels at the same time for a long time, it's just juvenile people who blow this up for sc2. I'm kinda sad people can't just enjoy both shows for what they are, they don't have to constantly argue which is better to hide their own insecurities that they chose the "wrong" one to watch. There isn't a right/wrong choice, just watch for the games and for the players, people need to stop being right all the time, that's what's hurting esports, the vocal minority of idiots, not the tournament hosts.
well the difference is that it's under the umbrella of BW, proleague and Kespa.
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I think the OP's argument is a bit silly. If you argue that the IPL is hurting esports because it conflicts with NASL, then you also need to argue that NASL is hurting esports because it conflicts with the day9 daily.
The reason why the day9 daily, IPL, and NASL all air at the same time is because it is prime time. For the first time in the west, we have the option to choose what we want to watch live, and that is awesome! For example this week is 2v2 week on the daily, which I'm not interested in, so I'll watch the IPL instead. If I want to watch more SC2 than that, there are 3-4 pro streams that I follow. And if none of those are on, I will fall back on vods on youtube because I don't care very much for the NASL. How awesome is that, that I have so many good options to watch esports?
Another thing to point out is that with internet media its super easy to deliver on-demand content. If you really want to watch 5+ hours of SC2 each day you can, everyone offers VODs. NASL streams live twice and has paid vods, IPL+daily have free vods, and all megatournaments offer paid vods.
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On April 29 2011 12:45 Char711 wrote:
I like how you claim not to want to criticize either league while calling out only one of them in the title. You also immediately talk about how the only thing the IPL has going for it is production quality at the very beginning of your first section. You claim to not want to favor one over the other but your entire post is talking about how the IPL is trying to undercut the NASL or about how they've done something wrong. It's like the StarCraft version of Fox "Fair and Balanced."
So, why are they at the same time? Well, they're daily leagues and, surprise surprise, that's prime time. Why should the IPL take a vastly inferior time just because the NASL was there first? They'd be deliberately crippling themselves! You're asking an organization that, in the end, has to make money to take a purposeful disadvantage rather than letting them compete with a competitor without a handicap. The best part is that you're saying this at a time when both leagues are still brand new and the IPL is just barely out of the gate, giving you no true basis for any of your claims.
I'm still a little shocked I actually replied to this.
Edit: floor exercise also had the right general idea.
I do agree with you on a few points. The reason why I didn't take a neutral stance, and pointed at the IPL, is simply because enough people have already discussed the issues and shortcomings of the NASL. Also, they (the NASL) have been very vocal to the community about fixing their issues, while its all quiet on the front of the IPL. We have no idea whats going on with the IPL, and their future, yet every idea on the NASL.
I do see that they are both trying to target the "prime time" of TV real-estate, in the PST time zone. However, their audience is a global one, and comes from many different time zones. If one of them went after the prime time of EST, that would mean they would overlap a lot less. They wouldn't be crippling themselves at all, as its just an hour or two difference in start times, and makes watching both leagues a lot more friendly.
The reason why I am bringing up this issue is because both leagues are brand-new. I see the broadcasting of the IPL, since it was announced months after the NASL, and adjustments could have been made, as a direct competitive move on IGN's part, which is one reason why i point the finger at IGN btw.
I did want to stray away, however, from just saying this is a problem with IGN, and only IGN can fix it. It is really up to both leagues, (if the problem is indeed big enough in the end) to do something about it. This is why I said a few times, that I wanted to remain neutral in these regards.
+ Show Spoiler +I often times think about how you would run a TV station, and delegate times for each "program". I would love there to be just one station that i could tune in to, that schedules everything out in a logical manner. (perhaps dividing these leagues into parts), Because what we basically have here, Is each "program" acting independently, for its own gain. This isn't a problem with a larger market, as competition breeds quality. however, with a limited market with limited growth...
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On April 29 2011 13:14 hellsan631 wrote:
[
I do agree with you on a few points. The reason why I didn't take a neutral stance, and pointed at the IPL, is simply because enough people have already discussed the issues and shortcomings of the NASL. Also, they (the NASL) have been very vocal to the community about fixing their issues, while its all quiet on the front of the IPL. We have no idea whats going on with the IPL, and their future, yet every idea on the NASL.
Did you ever go to IPL thread? Alex responding to almost every problem posted in the thread.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=209144
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On April 29 2011 13:04 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 11:40 floor exercise wrote:
Someone could very easily turn this around and say NASL, with their "4 guys and a dream" approach are harming esports way more because they are taking viewers from IGN, a company with far greater resources and a much greater chance of blowing your 'esports' up and getting it into the mainstream.
I mean at the end of the day, if your only concern is the proliferation of esports and getting it out to the masses, wouldn't it make way more sense for you to be accusing NASL of hurting esports if they are getting in IGN's way?
Of course to do that would make you an idiot because they have every right in the world to give it their best effort to create the biggest NA league if that's their desire.
But as the very first White Knight of ESPORTS I must beg you to stop using its name to spread your own biased opinions I think you are taking this way too many steps too far. You only need to address whether or not you think IPL scheduling their broadcasts at the same time period as NASL is good or bad for esports. You pretty much ignored any analysis on that discussion, which is the only discussion relevant to the blog, and went off on a bunch of tangents and way beyond the scope of the blog :o The blog could have been more focused itself, but you seem to have zoomed in on the passage put within spoiler tags of all places... If what you care about is who is harming esports more, then go write a blog about that. If you want to address whether or not IPL's scheduling decision is good or bad for esports, then go for it in a reply here.
Nope I read it from beginning to end, it's just incredible slanted towards NASL
Right from the getgo, IPL is hurting esports, rather than hurting NASL which is what his entire thread is actually talking about it. From this I inferred that NASL is ESPORTS, which I have a fundamental issue with. ESPORTS is like a beautiful and delicate flower, no one can "be" esports. If I could take it back to the 90s for one second, esports can basically be described as the subject of the hit song Two Princes by the Spin Doctors. Right now there's two princes vying for its love and affection, with IGN being the rich one with a family tree who is offering to buy esports rockets, mostly because it rhymes with pockets and fits into the song, but also to illustrate that he can buy expensive things for her and take good care of her. The other one of course professes to be more sincere and caring to make up for his lack of wealth and weak lineage.
He seems to be almost chiding IPL for putting on their tournament during NASL's schedule, which happens to be 5 days a week during primetime in North America. Were they supposed to discuss the possibility of increasing the number of days per week in the Lunar Calender? Bear in mind NASL just changed their own schedule from mon to friday to something else. If we are calling dibs on days of the week, isn't this now stepping on IPL's feet? Yet nowhere in the thread do I see him reprimand NASL for this thoughtless act.
He even writes "Did they really want to compete with the NASL? Maybe its even a bias I have because I feel some sort of loyalty towards the NASL, as I was there, excited, and waiting for it to launch."
Does this sound like the post of a man who's true intentions are the damage wrought to esports herself? I dare say it is not, hence my original post. Had this bias gone the other way, I question how long this blog would have stayed open given all the complaining and negativity that plagued NASL threads not so long ago.
You might be right in that there is a legitimate issue with two leagues running at the same time, the problem is his own self admitted overwhelming bias to protecting NASL's schedule of 5 days a week. If I were to post here and agree with all that, I'd in essence agreeing with the overwhelming bias, when as a sworn Knight of ESPORTS I can take no sides in this matter. It's not that I am for or against one league like the OP has declared himself, I'd love for them both to be awesome and succeed, he's just clearly using the "ur hurtin esports" argument to chastise IPL rather than invite any sort of real discussion on the matter.
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I think the thing to realize that this is all the "fault" of NASL. I put fault in quotes because I don't think they did anything wrong, but they took a very ambitious approach of essentially targeting 100% of the prime-time on the west coast and the most valuable part on the east coast. If they could get their stream to regularly have 100k viewers, delay the VODs further in time they could get to a point where charging $25 for a season pass wouldn't make up for the lost add revenue for those people even tuning in for 20/ 50 days for the regular season.
I think the IPL would be idiotic to not ask to compete for at least part of this time slot. If in the end it turns out IPL has a better production that people prefer at large numbers, they will "win" this timeslot and be able to push NASL out to a different time.
I'm not sure how I feel from a personal perspective about NASL trying to capture such a giant period of peak watching time, but from a business perspective (if they can do it) it's a great call. It erects large barriers to entry in the US market. However, I still think there's potential for entirely different types of business models if someone can totally outdo them in production.
I will say that plenty of leagues have had very good production, but I think a VOD-only league could even be successful if it had production that was as good as the video scenes in these demos from the AI bot:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210057#1
Also things like picture-in-picture that some commentators have been using or great use of different types of video effects. Obviously there's a trade-off in that it won't really be "live", but the production is nowhere near capped out (or fully differentiated).
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On Sunday's, there's like 15 football games on at a time.
On select Saturday's both UFC and Bellator are on the same exact time.
Baseball has dozens of games running a day.
Too much content is never a bad thing, in time the best will prevail.
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OP, just think of it like football leagues around the world. You have English Premier League, Spanish primera liga, Italian Football - Serie A League & Serie b Soccer and so on.. 
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NASL runs like every single day. You cant work arround it nor should people. Complaining two events run at the same time seems like an nonissue. Choose which you like best. May the best league survive.
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Austin10831 Posts
It's a little ridiculous to suggest IPL cede the prime time slot for their programming to a competitor in the interest of furthering esports. It's easy to say, "If IPL moved to a different time slot, the two shows would both benefit from increased viewership. It's a win-win situation." But, while the IPL may gain more viewers than they might have when competing for the 8 o'clock slot, they'd have less than the NASL would be drawing in a better slot and they'd essentially be relegating themselves to a secondary position behind the NASL.
If they believe they are providing the better product, it makes sense for them to fight for that advantageous time slot and that viewership. Establishing a brand is about more than viewer numbers and the associated revenue. Public perception of the hierarchy of content producers is important as well, especially in the context of how these organizations will be able to fund and produce future content. For an organization like IPL, who obviously have their sights set high, taking a backseat to NASL would be actively sabotaging any plan of becoming a premier league.
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NASL has rebroadcasts for EU. Also their schedule is set for like 12 weeks.
IPL is a north american tournament so it should be run at prime time hours (6pm to 9pm PST).
There's nothing much else to say. I watch IPL because it's free and the production is off the charts. Also I really like hd/painuser casting.
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In response to those who argue about what prime time is, in regard to Internet Broadcasting, I updated the OP. For reference, here is whats in the spoilers.
Prime Time is, for the most part, 8pm - 11pm, every day (PST), or 7pm - 10pm CST/EST. This is a standard that has existed in television for a long time. Now for sporting events, they usually run during the day, from 2pm to around 7pm (usually in the NA).
Now, the IPL starts right before the NASL, at 5pm, and runs for about 3-4 hours. This means, that it runs up and to the prime time, but not over it. Both leagues seem to favor starting before Prime Time broadcasting hours, at least in the NA. This may be due to the broadcast being too large to fit during prime time, but IPL (atleast) doesn't often touch those "prime time" hours.
Now both of these leagues numbers pale in comparison to those of the TSL. The TSL gets around 3-4x the amount of viewers, and starts mid-day (11am PST).
Now how could this be? Aren't Prime Time broadcasting hours supposed to be when a majority of will be watching tv? While this concept is important for a lot of cable programming and scheduling,
It does not affect sports viewing (starcraft is a sport), because event viewing runs on different rules then does tuning into your favorite reality tv show each day.
It doesn't take into account the scope of time zones of people who watch internet streams, as these cause a variance in the times which are "actually" prime time broadcasting hours.
It represents a demographic which doesn't match that of people who play/watch StarCraft. Im doing a bit far out with this one in reguards to facts, but most of us don't see ourselves as a "normal" person. (somewhat referencing personality tests on TL)
Prime Time for StarCraft broadcasts is a completely different concept then that of Prime Time on tv, for those reasons. There isn't a set good time to start or end a league, just as there isn't enough data on viewership to even guess at what those times might be. If you look at a recent poll on TL, 30% come from a CET timezone, 31% come from a EST/CST timezone, 14% come from GMT, and 13% come from a PST time zone. This means that there isn't a set ideal timezone to choose when selecting broadcasting times.
Now i do agree that these aren't the facts, and there is more then likely a correlation between increased numbers, and a league being broadcast in the prime time. However, there isn't enough data, or know scientific studies, that can help connect the dots.
Basically, we don't know at what times "Prime Time" occurs at in regards to SC Broadcasts, and data points to the fact that it might not be the same time as what can be considered prime time for TV.
I also re-phrased the post, trying to make it seem a bit less biased. Again, the argument was not what league was at fault, but that there there might be a problem with leagues running at the same time. Stop avoiding the main subject, and trying to dis-hearten the argument i'm making by claiming a bias which has nothing to do with the argument itself. (this isnt NASL vs IPL, its an argument over broadcasting times!)
That bias comes from the observations i've made in regards to the choices of times by each league, and when those times were chosen. It was stated to create some discussion to see who really is at fault, and entice people to answer and support their views on the main subject.
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TSL occurs on the weekend, 11am PST during the weekdays would be awful for NA viewers.
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On April 30 2011 08:47 odder wrote:
TSL occurs on the weekend, 11am PST during the weekdays would be awful for NA viewers.
Yet Prime Time during the weekend remains the same. I'm not making an assumption as to what time is best to broadcast on every day, only that there is less of a correlation between whats the best broadcast times for SC and whats the best for TV.
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IPL is competition. a good one.
NASL is also the one that CAN do soemthing about this. Make their VODS free.
Moment you miss a day's worth of series for whatever you lose interest.
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As others have said before me, there is no reason for IPL to concede the best time slots to the NASL "for the sake of ESports."
IPL is simply healthy competition, and competition is extremely healthy for any industry - not just ESports. The only way to ensure the best possible quality and prices out of a product is to practice laissez-faire. The "invisible hand" must be allowed to determine the proper equilibrium in a free market economy without any intervention. Although there are some exceptions, meddling with this system tends to result in deadweight losses, or a loss of economic efficiency. There's a reason that the US takes its anti-trust laws very seriously.
The OP is arguing that there is a problem with allowing these two leagues to run at the same time. I would argue that this is in fact beneficial to ESports, while forcing one league to concede the preferable time slot would be a detriment to this fledgling industry. The best products will naturally rise to the top while streamlining costs/prices.
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