I bought this awesome game that SC2 is and then I discovered Broodwar. I'm starting to discover the history behind it (first being curious about BoxeR, then seeing an Adelscott -a pro SC2 French player- interview about those who inspired him back in his BW days, and as of late ElkY -TV documentary on him that I am working on subbing to English). These days, I was thinking about the fact that Broodwar looked awesome despite the low graphics. That, and it just has some *hype* components to it (eraser, reaver drops, lurkers...)
I started playing SC2:BW (the mod Maverck made for SC2 to behave to a similar way to BW) for fun with other people who, just like me, were playing it for fun. Despite having absolutely no notion of BW strategy, it seemed fun. I even found me a favorite unit: The reaver. :3 Why don't they make reavers in SC2 instead of colossus? v.v
Anyway, I said I was working on subs (still not done with that, I underestimated the difficulty of such process @_@), I got a phone text about the fact that I had 10 euros to use on whatever-I-wanted from a store.
Anyway, I installed the game and all and am now playing the Vanilla SC Terran campaign.
Here are my first impressions: - I think I'll have to wage war vs the UI ^^ I guess that'll help me macro and micro better in SC2 since I think that both are *so hard* in BW, especially micro D: - I have heard about "skill ceilings" in BW that are not there in SC2. If I were to compare, I'd say that SC2 automatically does some stuff you have to do yourself in BW. That, and even the stuff that you would have to take time doing you will do it easier (example: building marines - MBS in SC2, none of that in SC:BW - you have to select everything yourself). - No grid hotkeys (dayum) - Where are my control groups? Or are they not there in the campaign? @_@
And then I watch BoxeR do his tricks and all and am like: OMG how did you domesticate the beast? D: And then #2: Jaedong muta micro, how can he do that with such UI? And then #3: Reaver drops must feel like a sport inside a sport. I don't know, this UI feels threatening xD
It's not like I'm going to give up playing at least the campaign, quite the contrary. I feel like I could use skills acquired from BW over SC2 (since SC2 seems leaps and bounds easier in comparison). That and iCCup seems down, can anyone help moi?
Anyway, done with the random ramblings of an SC2 newb being initiated to BW. Wish me luck >.>
I feel like anyone with BW experience will be a lot better at SC2 than someone without, just because broodwar was SO hard, and to be decent at broodwar, meant your macro was pretty darn solid, giving you an edge to focus on other little things in SC2. (you also have mutiple building select, ALL of your units on one hotkey if you wanted, and... automine. gasp.)
Don't be discouraged! SC:BW is definitely a harder game to play than SC2, but once you get the hang of it youll be having a blast (I was a noob 4 months ago in sc:bw to but now I at least have some what of a clue of what I am doing and actually almost got D + ).
You become much more amazed at the control you see from some progamers after trying it yourself and seeing how difficult it can be. You can't just 1a t and win an engagement against a skilled opponent in BW.
If you are really bad at BW but want to practice with someone on iCCup, PM me. I would probably be an E on iCCup if such low ranks existed (don't know if they do or not). I'm having fun playing vs the AI, but it would be nice playing with someone at my low skill level (based on your post I get the impression youre not very good yet, but I could be wrong).
Also you have control groups, they just dont show up on the UI like they do in SC2.
Playing BW is like flying a spitfire: it seems simple enough, yet it has got a lot of quirks, but it roars like a lion with a diesel engine when you play it right ^^
Every time someone posts a BW is harder than SC2 thread because of the mechanics, I must remind you of a little game called warcraft.
The mechanics of BW were not by design, everything you do is a *feature* and if they were able to do things like MBS and better unit AI, they would have done it. SCBW promoted computer skills over strategical thinking which is why players like nestea didn't do as much in scbw, but in sc2 they shine. SCBW had as much decision making as sc2, but the decisions in sc2 cannot be as easily overcome by micro. If you make a bad unit choice, no amount of micro can help you win. So in bw, micro would cost you games, in sc2, unit composition costs games. It's different.
As for the UI, sc2 is much more user friendly and as a result will appeal to a wider audience making the game much more succesful.
As far as control groups, thanks for the info. I started feeling a bit lost. Even though I'm still lost because I couldn't bind them (let's go google!)
XD - if the goons are as terrible as in SC2:BW, then I'll have tough times ahead... As far as my mini-pic, I play Protoss in SC2. I don't know what race I will play in SC:BW just yet, mainly because Terran feels strangely intuitive in it (unlike SC2 - in my opinion, I'm entitled one methinks).
I am starting to get a feel of the UI through the Terran campaign. I'm trying to adapt as quickly as possible and I notice that there is much more effort required in taming it. I mean, campaign, nearing 1000 minerals in the evac mission (Mengsk entering the scene)... >.> bad me for not making moar raxes and getting supply blocked when I think I'm doing well managing my rine positioning. Well, that's something to work on.
Edit: Oh so it's not CTRL + number, it's the other way. Alright at least I got that part covered now.
On April 22 2011 06:27 mizU wrote: I feel like anyone with BW experience will be a lot better at SC2 than someone without, just because broodwar was SO hard, and to be decent at broodwar, meant your macro was pretty darn solid, giving you an edge to focus on other little things in SC2. (you also have mutiple building select, ALL of your units on one hotkey if you wanted, and... automine. gasp.)
i still play SC2 like its BW lol. i forget to use MBS and stuff :x
On April 22 2011 08:50 TheDeli wrote: As far as control groups, thanks for the info. I started feeling a bit lost. Even though I'm still lost because I couldn't bind them (let's go google!)
XD - if the goons are as terrible as in SC2:BW, then I'll have tough times ahead... As far as my mini-pic, I play Protoss in SC2. I don't know what race I will play in SC:BW just yet, mainly because Terran feels strangely intuitive in it (unlike SC2 - in my opinion, I'm entitled one methinks).
I am starting to get a feel of the UI through the Terran campaign. I'm trying to adapt as quickly as possible and I notice that there is much more effort required in taming it. I mean, campaign, nearing 1000 minerals in the evac mission (Mengsk entering the scene)... >.> bad me for not making moar raxes and getting supply blocked when I think I'm doing well managing my rine positioning. Well, that's something to work on.
Edit: Oh so it's not CTRL + number, it's the other way. Alright at least I got that part covered now.
Wait, what? You hold down CTRL, and press the number to assign the group.
Then you press the number to go back to the group.
Well that's what I do but it doesn't work. That, or it might be taking under account the fact that my non-numpad keys are not numbers in AZERTY. Which means, I'd have to play with capslock activated >.>
On April 22 2011 07:41 darmousseh wrote: Every time someone posts a BW is harder than SC2 thread because of the mechanics, I must remind you of a little game called warcraft.
The mechanics of BW were not by design, everything you do is a *feature* and if they were able to do things like MBS and better unit AI, they would have done it. SCBW promoted computer skills over strategical thinking which is why players like nestea didn't do as much in scbw, but in sc2 they shine. SCBW had as much decision making as sc2, but the decisions in sc2 cannot be as easily overcome by micro. If you make a bad unit choice, no amount of micro can help you win. So in bw, micro would cost you games, in sc2, unit composition costs games. It's different.
As for the UI, sc2 is much more user friendly and as a result will appeal to a wider audience making the game much more succesful.
When you say "every time" you really do mean every time. You're like an SC2 propagandist!
I don't see any reason to think that SC2, as a game, promotes "strategical thinking" more than SC:BW. You're framing mechanics and strategical thinking as if they draw from the same attentional processes, as if thought devoted to one necessarily detracts from thought devoted to another. But, in fact, there is almost no limit to the amount of simultaneous processes that can be run by your brain once they have been automated. It's not like Flash is thinking, "I sure would like to be able to contemplate my gameplan right now, but gosh darnit I have to queue up another round of tanks!"
SC2 and SC:BW are different games. SC:BW is not SC2 minus MBS, and SC2 is not SC:BW plus more time for "decision making." Looking over your long post history on the subject, I think you make the comparison in such reductive terms because it corroborates your preference for SC2 as an e-sport. But really I think you should allow people to discuss BW without obeying the urge to jump in with your "omg extraneous mechanical demands!" observations. At least not every time.
If only the mechanics were the only differences between SC2 and BW .
On April 22 2011 07:41 darmousseh wrote: Every time someone posts a BW is harder than SC2 thread because of the mechanics, I must remind you of a little game called warcraft.
The mechanics of BW were not by design, everything you do is a *feature* and if they were able to do things like MBS and better unit AI, they would have done it. SCBW promoted computer skills over strategical thinking which is why players like nestea didn't do as much in scbw, but in sc2 they shine. SCBW had as much decision making as sc2, but the decisions in sc2 cannot be as easily overcome by micro. If you make a bad unit choice, no amount of micro can help you win. So in bw, micro would cost you games, in sc2, unit composition costs games. It's different.
As for the UI, sc2 is much more user friendly and as a result will appeal to a wider audience making the game much more succesful.
EPT
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