Oh Broodwar... Why so complicated for a noob? ^^' - Page 2

EmeraldSparks

United States1451 Posts

April 22 2011 02:59 GMT

#21

On April 22 2011 11:24 infinity2k9 wrote:
Play Protoss and only play PvT and you can get away with the most basic elements of the game only.

six pool every game and you won't need to micro more than two kinds of units

Jonoman92

United States9110 Posts

April 22 2011 03:06 GMT

#22

If you want I could put you in contact with my roommate. His parents never let him play video games so not only has he never played sc until now, he has no general knowledge of RTS or video games in general. He's in the same position as you, playing through the vanilla campaign. Since you're on TL I'm guessing your better than him though.

He can beat the zerg computer somtimes... but he loses to the P and T usually to give you some idea.

He really wants to play with people online (who are noobs too) but on iccup everyone is so good, and on public servers he couldn't really find a 1v1.

Hamster1800

United States175 Posts

April 22 2011 03:13 GMT

#23

On April 22 2011 11:24 infinity2k9 wrote:
Play Protoss and only play PvT and you can get away with the most basic elements of the game only.

PvT is not even close to only the basic elements of the game. What you mean is that it only requires basic army management skills and relatively little micro. It takes substantial game sense to know what you are able to get away with and exactly how strong your army is once terrans learn how to push properly and to set up their army properly. It is extremely hard to pull out of a bad engagement in PvT, and so you need to be able to judge how strong your army is in comparison to theirs and account for positioning accurately or you end up with a pile of blue goo and a lost game when they walk into your natural, even if you were ahead before that.

That being said, terrans don't learn how to push until at least D+ level on iccup, so for someone just starting out this is unlikely to be an issue.

endy

Switzerland8970 Posts

April 22 2011 03:32 GMT

#24

The reason you have problem with control groups, is that you're playing with a french keyboard, so you need to Caps lock. Advantage of the french keyboard is that the A key is closer to 1234 so it's really nice when you want to 1a2a3a4a !

You asked about muta micro. To stack mutas, put mutas together with a slow or immobile unit in a control group (like an overlord or a larva or a burrowed unit), select the control group, move, and they mutas will automatically stack up !

AnxiousHippo

Australia1451 Posts

April 22 2011 05:45 GMT

#25

On April 22 2011 06:39 -{Cake}- wrote:
Control groups only can have 12 units in them and are not shown in the lower center
Dragoons and Goliaths always bug out xP

gl hf

Pretty much, I was never any good at BW Hotkeys

L_Master

United States8017 Posts

April 22 2011 05:48 GMT

#26

On April 22 2011 09:10 Kenpachi wrote:

Show nested quote +

i still play SC2 like its BW lol. i forget to use MBS and stuff :x

All day baby! Honestly I am always amazed that almost no pros use more than a 3 key army, and many use just one. Shocking, especially with all the talk about DPS and splash units.

If you ever want any help/coaching/advice just PM me here or as sGs.LucidDream on iccup.

Meta

United States6228 Posts

April 22 2011 06:14 GMT

#27

I agree, reavers are awesome. Such a tear-jerker when you compare them to colossus. Keep up the hard work, BW is a damn fine game that went overlooked by far too many people

pathy

Taiwan619 Posts

April 22 2011 06:58 GMT

#28

i sometimes miss some bw hotkeys such as the alt+control group number. spamming that was so sexy :D

also every pvt game
12nex
that'll help you get the hang of bw macro and at least D/D+ before you face t's with actually well-timed 2facs

infinity2k9

United Kingdom2397 Posts

April 22 2011 07:44 GMT

#29

I thought 2fac is actually apparently not good against 12nex. That's what i saw people saying.

Hamster1800

United States175 Posts

April 22 2011 07:46 GMT

#30

12nex is a really weird build. The idea is that you get enough probes out of the expansion and enough mining time that you come out even or ahead even against most early rushes where the terran usually hasn't built his economy as much. You get slightly more units slightly later, so you'll be able to clear out the terran force after he's killed your natural, and as long as you saved all or most of the probes at the natural you have a fine economy and can transition into a mostly normal game. You will, however, lose horribly if he kills probes at your natural as well as the nexus.

knyttym

United States5797 Posts

April 22 2011 08:21 GMT

#31

On April 22 2011 16:44 infinity2k9 wrote:
I thought 2fac is actually apparently not good against 12nex. That's what i saw people saying.

The reason why you go 12 nexus in the first place instead of 14 is to defend 2 fac. So ya 2fac is bad

TheDeli

France110 Posts

April 22 2011 10:53 GMT

#32

zomg - Thanks for the replies D:

On April 22 2011 07:41 darmousseh wrote:

ROFL! Oh well, we're being spoiled way too much in SC2. Not regretting getting BW.

On April 22 2011 12:06 Jonoman92 wrote:
If you want I could put you in contact with my roommate. His parents never let him play video games so not only has he never played sc until now, he has no general knowledge of RTS or video games in general. He's in the same position as you, playing through the vanilla campaign. Since you're on TL I'm guessing your better than him though.

He can beat the zerg computer somtimes... but he loses to the P and T usually to give you some idea.

He really wants to play with people online (who are noobs too) but on iccup everyone is so good, and on public servers he couldn't really find a 1v1.

As soon as I get an iCCup account, no problem (I have this Forbidden screen, no idea why). Well, I still didn't tame the UI and I'm only playing campaign for now. Though I have some SC2 experience. I'm still learning them BW hotkeys. I still didn't play any game vs AI.

LOL @ Kenpachi xD

===
I'm still not set on what race I'll pick in BW. It all depends on how they feel in the campaigns.

Djagulingu

Germany3605 Posts

April 22 2011 11:41 GMT

#33

On April 22 2011 12:06 Jonoman92 wrote:
He can beat the zerg computer somtimes... but he loses to the P and T usually to give you some idea.

Zerg computer is totally beatable except when he 4pools and a lot easier than P or T computers. T is meh, but P is good. I mean, it rocks. Up to now, I was:
1- DT rushed as T
2- 2gated as Z
3- 1gate teched as Z from P computer and he wiped the floor with me every single time.

T generally does 2 rax academy TvZ and mixes it up TvP. You generally see science facility units tho.

@OP: Iccup has been DDOS'd for quite some time and registry doesn't work for now so you won't be able to get an account until the site is completely back.

Some hints from me on campaigns:
1- You can beat vanilla terran campaign by tank leapfrogging. In mission "Trump Card", you just D-Matrix the SCV and send him to the destination. Average time is 1 minute for that mission.
2- Vanilla protoss campaign is just spam zealot dragoon and a-move into opponent.
3- BW Protoss is the same and so is BW Terran

I couldn't beat zerg campaigns for some reason and I even play zerg in BW.

Another advice, when you get your iccup account, don't get nervous of laddering for a few reasons:
1- Mass gaming generally gains points. My current record is 21-48 and still have 1311 points. Digging to 0 is impossible

. I saw some people getting that cute little purple computers, which is the E rank, got it myself with another account, but this season i've never got down lower than 500 for some reason. I won after going down for some time. This season I went down to 760 or a little lower maybe, but then, I'm on a roll. This account was 11-40 at some time.
2- You can clear your stats every 2 weeks.
3- You can have infinity amount of accounts. I think I have 4 as far as I can count and all are still active. I only play with certain one though. Others are all 0-0. I'm dropping you a pm with one of them and its password. Have a nice time and plz don't get complaints

Also, see you in the channel if you still hang out in sc2 and I'll probably find you in BW as we both are kinda in same time zone and you'll be using my account for foreseeable future (if some other person didn't pm you one of his smurfs ofc

)

Chef

10810 Posts

April 22 2011 17:20 GMT

#34

On April 22 2011 06:38 Grobyc wrote:
You become much more amazed at the control you see from some progamers after trying it yourself and seeing how difficult it can be. You can't just 1a t and win an engagement against a skilled opponent in BW.

And it only gets worse as your opponents become more skilled and start making you do things/requiring you to react to things you've never seen before. It's all well and good to master luring a computer's units one at a time when you have 30 APM, but a human can see you focusing all your attention of picking off the outskirts of his army and just drop you at the same time while you're not paying attention. Then when you get better and your controlling your main army of four groups really well, at maybe 150 APM, your opponent will still find ways to make you do more things than you have concentration to do. They will posture their army and force you to react, while having perfect macro and doing a vulture runby somewhere else, meanwhile your macro plummets and you lose 7 probes because you're too intent on not giving up position.

There's just so much to do in BW. Even Jaedong's 400 APM is not enough to do everything perfect, he has to make decisions about what he will spend his time doing. And then you watch TSL where someone who only binds 3 hotkeys is able to be competitive with someone using all 10 LOL. Where you don't need to look back at your base except to shift click build a bunch of depots automatically, since you can hotkey every single gateway on the map even if you have 40. The macro in the early game is essentially harder than it is in the late game because at least in the early game you have to build tech lol. 4zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzddddsssss.

There is just so little to do in SC2... It's not that BW will make you better at SC2, it's that if you've played BW for 10 years the mechanics of SC2 will be easy. Play BW to get good at BW

If you wanna get good at SC2, playing BW will just make the skills you gain redundant since they don't matter in SC2.

TheDeli

France110 Posts

April 22 2011 22:56 GMT

#35

Woot! Thanks for the PM Djagulingu! Even though I didn't get to go on iCCup, for some reason it was telling me: "Incorrect password blargh!"

And all things considered I'm going to try to get good at Broodwar itself. It will influence on my SC2 gameplay indirectly but I'm already starting to reeeeally enjoy BW and its cartoonish graphics.

United States6173 Posts

April 22 2011 23:17 GMT

#36

On April 22 2011 07:41 darmousseh wrote:
Every time someone posts a BW is harder than SC2 thread because of the mechanics, I must remind you of a little game called warcraft.

The mechanics of BW were not by design, everything you do is a *feature* and if they were able to do things like MBS and better unit AI, they would have done it. SCBW promoted computer skills over strategical thinking which is why players like nestea didn't do as much in scbw, but in sc2 they shine. SCBW had as much decision making as sc2, but the decisions in sc2 cannot be as easily overcome by micro. If you make a bad unit choice, no amount of micro can help you win. So in bw, micro would cost you games, in sc2, unit composition costs games. It's different.

As for the UI, sc2 is much more user friendly and as a result will appeal to a wider audience making the game much more succesful.

You were never very good at BW, were you? There's a lot more wrong in all that you just wrote than there is right.

shinjin

United States398 Posts

April 22 2011 23:32 GMT

#37

lol your conclusion statement contradicts your intro statement

"sc2 is much more user friendly"
is just another way of saying its easier..sure you might want to sugarcoat it but in the end bw is the harder game by FAR. I don't understand the point of your post. Are you suggesting that unit composition does not cost games in BW?

Not to mention you are looking at the game at a very skewed level, the level of pros only, which is only about 5% of the BW community in general (excluding korea), compared to the gazillions of "master" level sc2 players out there.

In the end, your argument is that starcraft 2 is comparable to broodwar in terms of difficulty, which any player who really spent time learning BW would scoff at. Yes, it's different. But BW is still a hell of a lot harder than SC2 will ever be...

kainzero

United States5211 Posts

April 23 2011 00:02 GMT

#38

when you think about it, BW in itself is really not that complicated. campaign is pretty easy because none of us were really that good when the game came out. you can even beat the game without using hotkeys.

it's playing against people that's complicated because everyone's soooo good.