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A Pompous Diatribe About Word Choice - Page 2

Blogs > gods_basement
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Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-20 18:08:13
April 20 2011 18:07 GMT
#21
The purpose of language and communication is lost when the other party doesn't understand what the fuck you're talking about. It's really as simple as that. If you don't speak in a manner that the other person is going to understand (i.e. have enough empathy to dial it down a notch, when necessary), then there's no point even bothering to communicate.
Arkansassy
Profile Joined October 2010
358 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-20 22:10:07
April 20 2011 22:08 GMT
#22
On April 21 2011 03:07 Bibdy wrote:
The purpose of language and communication is lost when the other party doesn't understand what the fuck you're talking about. It's really as simple as that. If you don't speak in a manner that the other person is going to understand (i.e. have enough empathy to dial it down a notch, when necessary), then there's no point even bothering to communicate.



I tend to disagree with this idea. The purpose of reading above your level is so that you learn, no? It's the same with communication. I will not hesitate to say I don't understand and have them explain. Frankly, I'd prefer to rise up to their level, not have them talk down to mine.
felizuno
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States164 Posts
April 20 2011 22:16 GMT
#23
Frankly I notice word choice the most when

A) somebody uses a esoteric (see what I did there?) word just to look cool
B) people choose their words poorly and give the wrong tone to their statements

I have noticed that B is a plague that infects the internet.
Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
April 20 2011 22:23 GMT
#24
Hard vocabalary is how you win a vocal/oral discussion with someone, if you suddenly use jargon , they won't be able to respond properly because they don't understand you properly. Cruise to victory and claim your win.
WriterXiao8~~
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
April 20 2011 22:54 GMT
#25
On April 21 2011 07:23 Kipsate wrote:
Hard vocabalary is how you win a vocal/oral discussion with someone, if you suddenly use jargon , they won't be able to respond properly because they don't understand you properly. Cruise to victory and claim your win.
This is actually true.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
Bippzy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1466 Posts
April 21 2011 00:40 GMT
#26
It's interesting you bring this up. I, for one, feel quite amorable to blatant abuse of extraneous written language. Perhaps, I discover it to persistently please me with its pleasant perplexities it brings to me at present. That said, a quality performance of the speech variation should feature a combination of words that has received an evaluation to match the situation. This, of course, means casting should not be too provincial, but not overly formal, or ambiguous through the use of obscure words.

Well then, after blatantly bullying the boring bloke who berated the use of large and random words, i figured i should put what i typed in my ipads notes during history today after my teacher said the not-known-by-me word, repudiate.

+ Show Spoiler +
Note to self USE REPUDIATE YAY
Note to self USE REPUDIATE NOW
Ugh im not gonna remember
But i really want to use repudiate
I dont want to repudiate the desire to use repudiate
I want to repudiate the repudiation of my desire to use repudiate repudiatively
Perhaps i could repudiate the repudiation of the repudiation of my desire to use repudiation repudiatively, because that would repudiate everything, assuming my use of repudiate is not repudiatable.
I repudiate this entire tangent.
I repudiate the repudiation of this tangent of repudiation.


Also, this was also done also when he also said, "how free is free?"
+ Show Spoiler +
How free is free? Well, if you ask how adjective the same adjective is, the answer is 100%. However, when you apply curved meanings used by governments and connotations and slang, asking how adjective is adjective implies how (actual formal meaning) is (curved/connotated/slang meaning). For example, how tight is tight? How closed firmly is awesome/cool? Same thing.
LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK
gods_basement
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States305 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-21 01:06:05
April 21 2011 01:03 GMT
#27
On April 21 2011 09:40 Bippzy wrote:
It's interesting you bring this up. I, for one, feel quite amorable to blatant abuse of extraneous written language. Perhaps, I discover it to persistently please me with its pleasant perplexities it brings to me at present. That said, a quality performance of the speech variation should feature a combination of words that has received an evaluation to match the situation. This, of course, means casting should not be too provincial, but not overly formal, or ambiguous through the use of obscure words.

Well then, after blatantly bullying the boring bloke who berated the use of large and random words, i figured i should put what i typed in my ipads notes during history today after my teacher said the not-known-by-me word, repudiate.

+ Show Spoiler +
Note to self USE REPUDIATE YAY
Note to self USE REPUDIATE NOW
Ugh im not gonna remember
But i really want to use repudiate
I dont want to repudiate the desire to use repudiate
I want to repudiate the repudiation of my desire to use repudiate repudiatively
Perhaps i could repudiate the repudiation of the repudiation of my desire to use repudiation repudiatively, because that would repudiate everything, assuming my use of repudiate is not repudiatable.
I repudiate this entire tangent.
I repudiate the repudiation of this tangent of repudiation.


Also, this was also done also when he also said, "how free is free?"
+ Show Spoiler +
How free is free? Well, if you ask how adjective the same adjective is, the answer is 100%. However, when you apply curved meanings used by governments and connotations and slang, asking how adjective is adjective implies how (actual formal meaning) is (curved/connotated/slang meaning). For example, how tight is tight? How closed firmly is awesome/cool? Same thing.


I don't know if you're trolling or not, but your post is frustrating to read. its almost like you made a checklist of what i said not to do, and one by one knocked them out of the ballpark.
(TT~TT)
Arkansassy
Profile Joined October 2010
358 Posts
April 21 2011 01:30 GMT
#28
Sorry, trolling or not, I had to lofl. The alliteration is awesome.

Also, the way he also construction each sentence also made me also laugh. LOL
Zim23
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1681 Posts
April 21 2011 03:25 GMT
#29
The definitions of words change based on common use and understanding. It's a process that's been happening for about 50 thousand years, give or take.
Do an arranged marriage if she's not completely minging, and don't worry about dancing, get a go-kart, cheers.
gods_basement
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States305 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-21 14:30:35
April 21 2011 14:23 GMT
#30
On April 21 2011 12:25 Zim23 wrote:
The definitions of words change based on common use and understanding. It's a process that's been happening for about 50 thousand years, give or take.


Thoughtful people apply words to new situations, which gives us cool words. At some point, an artist described food as "rich," meaning that it conveyed certain figurative attributes. To say "EH, you can use words however you like, LANGUAGE EVOLVES!" gives us dog shit language like "literally"
(TT~TT)
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
April 21 2011 14:57 GMT
#31
On April 21 2011 07:08 Arkansassy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2011 03:07 Bibdy wrote:
The purpose of language and communication is lost when the other party doesn't understand what the fuck you're talking about. It's really as simple as that. If you don't speak in a manner that the other person is going to understand (i.e. have enough empathy to dial it down a notch, when necessary), then there's no point even bothering to communicate.



I tend to disagree with this idea. The purpose of reading above your level is so that you learn, no? It's the same with communication. I will not hesitate to say I don't understand and have them explain. Frankly, I'd prefer to rise up to their level, not have them talk down to mine.

There's tension between clear communication and teaching/learning. The more of one, the less of the other. And there are definitely situations where clear communication is strongly preferred: conducting business, sensitive communications (you have cancer! -or- I'm breaking up with you!), when time is an issue, when communication is one way.

And though you might be an eager learner, the other person might not be an eager teacher.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Arkansassy
Profile Joined October 2010
358 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-22 01:09:05
April 21 2011 17:11 GMT
#32
On April 21 2011 23:57 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2011 07:08 Arkansassy wrote:
On April 21 2011 03:07 Bibdy wrote:
The purpose of language and communication is lost when the other party doesn't understand what the fuck you're talking about. It's really as simple as that. If you don't speak in a manner that the other person is going to understand (i.e. have enough empathy to dial it down a notch, when necessary), then there's no point even bothering to communicate.



I tend to disagree with this idea. The purpose of reading above your level is so that you learn, no? It's the same with communication. I will not hesitate to say I don't understand and have them explain. Frankly, I'd prefer to rise up to their level, not have them talk down to mine.

There's tension between clear communication and teaching/learning. The more of one, the less of the other. And there are definitely situations where clear communication is strongly preferred: conducting business, sensitive communications (you have cancer! -or- I'm breaking up with you!), when time is an issue, when communication is one way.

And though you might be an eager learner, the other person might not be an eager teacher.


I don't entirely disagree with what you've said. Obviously, there are situations where it's necessary (for those of you who didn't get it) to use words to help the person with whom you're speaking, better understand. If a doctor uses medical terminology, I'm like "huh? Tell me in English please." That applies to any profession in which the layman is unfamiliar.

When I'm in an everyday conversation, however, I find it stimulating to talk with someone who has a command of the English language.

The purpose is to make oneself understood in order to get their point across; therefore, if someone is bright enough to say, "Sorry, I don't get what you mean," of course I'm going to explain it in a way that they understand. Is that not a teaching/learning exchange? Wouldn't anyone be "eager" to teach in that instance?"



gods_basement
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States305 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-21 17:26:43
April 21 2011 17:20 GMT
#33


this thread is now a chance for everyone to show how irritating, pretentious, and incorrect their word choice is.
(TT~TT)
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
April 21 2011 17:25 GMT
#34
On April 21 2011 00:12 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2011 00:07 gods_basement wrote:
On April 21 2011 00:04 Chill wrote:
It sounds like you want this.


i'm just teasing ^^

Oh really? Because I feel like there's a lot of merit to what you're saying actually. People use complex words incorrectly all the time to try to spice up their commentary and it tilts me, but there's got to be some middle ground.

I guess I'm trying to say: Complex and accurate > accurate > complex


I wouldn't say complex is valuable at all.

Maybe something like Variety+Precision >>> Precision Alone > Variety alone.

It's annoying hearing the same exact phrase used to describe something 50 times in a 20 minute game.
www.infinityseven.net
benjammin
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2728 Posts
April 21 2011 17:40 GMT
#35
On April 20 2011 23:23 gods_basement wrote:
What is the difference between having a big vocabulary and having a rich vocabulary? A logical starting place would be to look at the meaning of "rich."

"Rich" is a word evolved from the pre-Germanic word "riki" meaning "powerful," and the Old French word "riche" meaning "wealthy." Because of the strong associations between wealth and power at the time, these words combined into English as "rich."

So, to have a rich vocabulary is to have one that is, figuratively, wealthy and powerful. A rich vocabulary is contains many words, but has the forcefulness of precise language. It is both wide and deep.

The point of this blog is to discuss how to look smart, or more accurately, the wrong ways of attempting to look smart. Using $20 words is only impressive if it was $20 dollars well spent. Saying "a plethora of birds" is no more descriptive than "many birds." Flowery writing without a purpose is without substance. This is why word choice should be precise and deliberate. To use big words that don't fit only to defend them upon scrutiny is to have the wrong mindset.

But unless there is a fork or similar tool that is exploring uncharted area, one should not say "scouting utensil." There never is justification to say "a contingency of marines."

Thanks for reading.


wrong, everyone knows rich comes from "wizard"
wash uffitizi, drive me to firenze
Bippzy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1466 Posts
April 21 2011 19:06 GMT
#36
On April 22 2011 02:20 gods_basement wrote:


this thread is now a chance for everyone to show how irritating, pretentious, and incorrect their word choice is.


I concur with this proclamation!
LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK
flowSthead
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1065 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-21 20:23:55
April 21 2011 20:22 GMT
#37
I think this is relevant:


Edit: When not making an argument, such as the examples given in the above video (supermarket), clarity is the most important thing, so simplicity of language is usually the best.

Otherwise, I would say that when making an argument precision becomes important. Complexity is also important, but only after precision is established. For example, looking at say movies, if I were to say something is good or bad, I would have to be precise in what I mean by good or bad. Do I mean objectively, for everyone, or subjectively, for myself? Do I mean good or bad as related to how much I liked said movie, or to the production values? Are the things I am judging the same as the things you are judging? Perhaps I care more about dialogue while you care more about plot. Our good and bad would then be different.

Once precision is established, complexity will help you delineate and create greater precision. So for the example of "contingency of marines", you could say that the discussion started with different uses for marines. Marines as attacking and defending would be the first way you could do this, and then get more complicated: marines in a bio ball with marauders and medivacs, versus marines in a medivac doing drop harass, versus marines backing up tanks, versus marines staying in your base to chase off mutalisks/phoenixes/other air. That last one could be called a "contingency of marines" as a shorthand instead of every time having to type "the marines that defend my base from air". I chose this based on this definition from dictionary.com of contingency:

1. dependence on chance or on the fulfillment of a condition; uncertainty; fortuitousness: Nothing was left to contingency.

The chance is an air attack, or an air scout. So you leave marines behind to account for that chance. Thus, a contingency of marines.
"You can be creative but I will crush it under the iron fist of my conservative play." - Liquid`Tyler █ MVP ■ MC ■ Boxer ■ Grubby █
gods_basement
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States305 Posts
April 22 2011 01:32 GMT
#38
On April 22 2011 05:22 flowSthead wrote:
I think this is relevant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY

Edit: When not making an argument, such as the examples given in the above video (supermarket), clarity is the most important thing, so simplicity of language is usually the best.

Otherwise, I would say that when making an argument precision becomes important. Complexity is also important, but only after precision is established. For example, looking at say movies, if I were to say something is good or bad, I would have to be precise in what I mean by good or bad. Do I mean objectively, for everyone, or subjectively, for myself? Do I mean good or bad as related to how much I liked said movie, or to the production values? Are the things I am judging the same as the things you are judging? Perhaps I care more about dialogue while you care more about plot. Our good and bad would then be different.

Once precision is established, complexity will help you delineate and create greater precision. So for the example of "contingency of marines", you could say that the discussion started with different uses for marines. Marines as attacking and defending would be the first way you could do this, and then get more complicated: marines in a bio ball with marauders and medivacs, versus marines in a medivac doing drop harass, versus marines backing up tanks, versus marines staying in your base to chase off mutalisks/phoenixes/other air. That last one could be called a "contingency of marines" as a shorthand instead of every time having to type "the marines that defend my base from air". I chose this based on this definition from dictionary.com of contingency:

1. dependence on chance or on the fulfillment of a condition; uncertainty; fortuitousness: Nothing was left to contingency.

The chance is an air attack, or an air scout. So you leave marines behind to account for that chance. Thus, a contingency of marines.


fantastic video. However, i dont feel like a pedant because my only point was that using big words incorrectly only makes you look stupid. My philosophy on it is that one should understand deeply the connotation of a word before using it, and I believe that connotation is most evident from studying its etymology.

I considered this justification of a 'contingency of marines' when writing the initial post. However, I did not feel like writing such a long explanation (perhaps a bit shorter than yours), so I decided that it was not particularly accurate, glib and contrived. Wit that requires a wag of the eyebrows is not particularly witty (nor is replacing a measure word with the objects' attributes).


(TT~TT)
flowSthead
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
1065 Posts
April 22 2011 08:34 GMT
#39
On April 22 2011 10:32 gods_basement wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2011 05:22 flowSthead wrote:
I think this is relevant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7E-aoXLZGY

Edit: When not making an argument, such as the examples given in the above video (supermarket), clarity is the most important thing, so simplicity of language is usually the best.

Otherwise, I would say that when making an argument precision becomes important. Complexity is also important, but only after precision is established. For example, looking at say movies, if I were to say something is good or bad, I would have to be precise in what I mean by good or bad. Do I mean objectively, for everyone, or subjectively, for myself? Do I mean good or bad as related to how much I liked said movie, or to the production values? Are the things I am judging the same as the things you are judging? Perhaps I care more about dialogue while you care more about plot. Our good and bad would then be different.

Once precision is established, complexity will help you delineate and create greater precision. So for the example of "contingency of marines", you could say that the discussion started with different uses for marines. Marines as attacking and defending would be the first way you could do this, and then get more complicated: marines in a bio ball with marauders and medivacs, versus marines in a medivac doing drop harass, versus marines backing up tanks, versus marines staying in your base to chase off mutalisks/phoenixes/other air. That last one could be called a "contingency of marines" as a shorthand instead of every time having to type "the marines that defend my base from air". I chose this based on this definition from dictionary.com of contingency:

1. dependence on chance or on the fulfillment of a condition; uncertainty; fortuitousness: Nothing was left to contingency.

The chance is an air attack, or an air scout. So you leave marines behind to account for that chance. Thus, a contingency of marines.


fantastic video. However, i dont feel like a pedant because my only point was that using big words incorrectly only makes you look stupid. My philosophy on it is that one should understand deeply the connotation of a word before using it, and I believe that connotation is most evident from studying its etymology.

I considered this justification of a 'contingency of marines' when writing the initial post. However, I did not feel like writing such a long explanation (perhaps a bit shorter than yours), so I decided that it was not particularly accurate, glib and contrived. Wit that requires a wag of the eyebrows is not particularly witty (nor is replacing a measure word with the objects' attributes).




Sorry if it came out that way, but I wasn't trying to suggest that you are a pedant. I just thought the video would help focus the discussion a little bit. I completely agree that using big words incorrectly does make a person seem stupid.

What I disagreed with was the notion that there can never be a proper use for "a contingency of marines". I think you were a little too focused on the wrong usages, rather than the possible right usages. The video is helpful there with the idea of ugly words like "I actioned the starcraft" or whatever the example was. "Actioned" there seems ugly the way "contingency" seems ugly in "contingency of marines". Just because it's ugly doesn't necessarily mean that it cannot be useful or clear. What I did in the second paragraph was try to establish a possible scenario where the ugly use of contingency could possibly work. It all depends on context.

Essentially, because you did not give context in your example, I did not feel like it was a valid example. But I still completely agree that not using big words properly never makes a person look good. The same thing can apply if someone tries to speak a foreign language without knowing it well. They can make themselves look like an idiot.

So I don't disagree with your point in general, just in specific. (And I don't think you are a pedant.)
"You can be creative but I will crush it under the iron fist of my conservative play." - Liquid`Tyler █ MVP ■ MC ■ Boxer ■ Grubby █
Maliris
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Northern Ireland2557 Posts
April 22 2011 20:11 GMT
#40
Man, can't believe all this time i thought "contingency" meant like a squad/small group that were given a task, i used to say contingency of marines all the time rofl did a caster start saying this sometime? because i have no idea where i picked this up
"Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines."
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