• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:49
CEST 20:49
KST 03:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon175.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes22Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch2[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)99
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Is the larve respawn broken? ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Starcraft vs Retro Category on Twitch ProGamer Paychecks Story Best thing happen to StarCraft since Remastered?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
[94721]Better Good-Health Signs Than 3-15 Bans/Yea TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11947 users

Love Cheese, Hate Cheez.

Blogs > Mathas
Post a Reply
Mathas
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States24 Posts
March 31 2011 16:28 GMT
#1
(More white space in this blog )

As stated in my previous blog, I'm desperately clawing my way out of Bronze. I'm currently still number 1 in my league with a very solid point lead. The matches keep telling me that the opponent is favored or slightly favored and occasionally even. When I check their ranks after the game, they are always mid-ish bronze, which confuses me. ButI digress.


I said I wanted to move away from the 1 base roach > Lair > Expand opening because it crushes too easily and I can never get to the mid game to practice there. So I began trying and pacticing the 15 hatch > 14 pool opening for a heavy economic lead on bigger maps as long as spawning locations weren't close. But I've come to a very harsh realization that I already knew, but was just smacked home. Cheese is heavy in bronze league. If I don't have an early army or a big enough one to combat 6pool (which happens WAY to often in ZvZ might I add), or some cannon rushing action then I'm in trouble. I've not run into a cheesey terran at least, and those games are some of the most fun. So, in order to survive I went back to my guns, the solid 1 base roach. With early scouting if I spot a 6 pool, or an early forge with a pylon right outside my base, I can quickly pop out zerglings instead of focusing on Roaches and squash most cheeses putting me significantly ahead of my opponent and finishing off the cheesers.


But I've also changed things up a bit as well. As I said in my previous blog, if the opponent is able to hold off my roach/ling rush, I felt I was ultimately screwed because I had cut drone production, setting to to the area of about 15 or 16 drones total at that point, while they would have 20 or so. But what I've adapted to doing is if they seem to have a solid wall off or good defense, break it with the roaches and have my lings run by and head right for the supply line, attacking their workers. They are then forced to pull the workers, halting the mining for a bit, and pull the army back to defend, giving my roaches some time to work at the front door a bit.

Back at home I've skipped Lair first and during the attack once I hit 200min, I send out my drone to prep for an expand first while pumping drones during the attack as best I can. When the attack is said and done, they usually are on their way to counter (in bronze I've realized most will just box and click after they've been hit to hopefully recover their loses or win). On a few games I've been able to enter the mid game with this strat, and after watching the replays I notice I even up the drone count usually and then pull far ahead.

The next goal is to put a third base down at a good time and keep that economy strong. I need to figure out whens a good time to drop that 3rd and keep expanding. I feel like I wait WAY to long to expand because I'm afraid it'll get taken down. I'd also like to find a practice partner and perhaps a coach. And hopefully I'll get promoted in due time.

As always, thanks for reading.



-Mathas

*****
Advocado
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Denmark994 Posts
March 31 2011 16:59 GMT
#2
Honestly if you are getting beaten by 6 pools on the larger maps, it'd be wise to go with the 13 pool and then prioritize getting a spinestalker. After there it's a tug of war to get that spinestalker up. Just remember that everyone time someone 6 pools,they won't have the economic advantage nor the tech. There will be no banelings or speedlings coming and that is very vulnerable to heavy static defenses.

I'm sure you've been giving this advice before, but as a zerg mechanics are very very important and your ZvZ will improve as a direct result of you hitting injections and executing your build order correctly. Don't focus too much on third base timings, roaches, timing attacks with roach/ling. Try to play the defensive zerg for a while and learn how to deflect attacks while droning up at the same time. Other than that go take a look at Mr.Bitter's videos on Dimaga's ZvZ as he is quite an successful mirror match player.

Good luck and may the mechanics be with you
http://www.twitch.tv/advocadosc2
Gak2
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada418 Posts
March 31 2011 17:02 GMT
#3
ah cheese
Usually not done in masters, which is why ZvZ is 15hatch more often. You can probably catch zerg masters players with a 6pool 50% of the time. If cheese is a problem, I suggest you go some variation of pool->hatchery, like 14 pool 16 hatchery.

1 base roach is a pretty bad opening, I recommend against it.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 11m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RushiSC 118
BRAT_OK 70
MindelVK 7
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 15608
Zeus 60
Pusan 53
Mong 31
Free 25
zelot 20
Bale 13
Sacsri 9
Dota 2
qojqva2082
420jenkins301
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m1997
adren_tv113
edward103
kRYSTAL_53
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu140
Other Games
Grubby3133
Dendi708
Beastyqt671
C9.Mang0184
UpATreeSC65
Mew2King55
Trikslyr52
JuggernautJason27
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream200
StarCraft 2
angryscii 18
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix10
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade900
Other Games
• imaqtpie776
• Shiphtur432
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 11m
CrankTV Team League
16h 11m
Bombastic Starleague
1d 1h
The PondCast
1d 15h
HomeStory Cup
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
HomeStory Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
HomeStory Cup
3 days
OSC
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S3
Douyu Cup 2026
Murky Cup 2026

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Heroes Pulsing #3
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.