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Hi,
this is a very personal matter, keeping my mind occupied since a few weeks:
Since a few month i feel extremly exhausted, call in sick about once a month because i feel too weak to stand up and feel too tired after work and on weekends to do anything. When i visited a doctor (the first time since years) a month ago because of a flu i asked him about that and he recommended me two books about burnout.
This woke some memories of a blog entry i wrote on my website about Burnout 2-3 years ago because i felt the symptoms at that time (traveling 2000km every weekend with a fulltime job is exhausting), which lead me to research the topic and rant a little about it. I deleted that and all other posts on my blog in the mean time, so i didn't think about it anymore. I also had a good phase a year ago with a new, well-paid job, moving to a city where i actually knew a person, etc... but the job started to drain me, my private life was/is a total failure, ... so now i'm here, exhausted, feeling like a dead person, too weak and tired for anything. I started to read the book about burnout (the second book was a "do something good for yourself" thing, i still have to read it... but i'm soooo tired that i haven't even finished the first one) and did the two tests in it i stumbled upon which rated me as critical case requiring immediate professional help (6.5 on a scale of 1-7, i believe, with >3 beginning burnout, >5 critical burnout).
I do not want to believe that, as it would mean a personal failure on my part - after all it means i'm too weak to live, while all others don't have that problem. Also according to the recommended book i'm far too young, it states mid-thirties, i'm not even 30.
Background:
- I'm 29
- I work as programmer and i'm actually quite good at my job, since eventhough i spend half the workday these days browsing TL i'm still more productive than my coworkers, according to my superiors.
- I don't do any excess overtime (i think i'm currently on 5 hours remaining overtime total)
- I think about switching work, but that would mean i'd have to move to another town _again_ as there is no suitable work in this area - and even in only the last 10 years i already moved more often than most others in their life, in average a little less than once a year and i only wish to have a stable life, so i'd rather stay a little longer, hoping for it to resolve itself.
Is that only a slump due to the unusually cold and long winter (at least here at the coast)? Could it be something else? And if someone thinks it's really burnout (eventhough i don't want it to be), is there anything else that could help solve the problem without getting professional help and probably getting drugged with happy-pills?
Or does anyone have experience with people that burned out?
 
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On March 15 2011 23:37 Morfildur wrote:
I do not want to believe that, as it would mean a personal failure on my part - after all it means i'm too weak to live, while all others don't have that problem. Also according to the recommended book i'm far too young, it states mid-thirties, i'm not even 30.
this part makes it pretty clear that you really do have a problem. do something about your condition and start asap. go for some kind of therapy, this is probably the most important thing. if you can move back to where people you like live. maybe your parents can help you too. don't be shy to ask for help now, you'll only regret it later. it's not your fault that you are in this situation.
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btw, you're not too young. I know someone with burnout, and she's 29 just like you.
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
I don't understand. I thought people got burned out from working too hard but you spend half your work-day browsing TL? How many hours do you work per day/week? What other commitments do you have?
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Maybe chronic fatigue syndrome or depression instead? Doesn't sound like burnout
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Wow...I don't understand why a doctor would say you're burnt out. That seems like something a psychologist or psychiatrist would be qualified to say. I got burnt out from WoW during high school which, actually, eventually led to me quitting and doing better academically and emotionally. Yes, the cold and dark nature of winter can lead to physiological sluggishness through seasonal affective disorder and such. You might just be burnt out from the electro radiation from all the computer use, that contributed to mine. How many hours a day are you staring at a screen or near a computer/tv that's turned on? I think I went through a similar(though definitely less severe) case. Do you get any headaches? How do you feel about your living space and your neighborhood?
I do not want to believe that, as it would mean a personal failure on my part - after all it means i'm too weak to live, while all others don't have that problem. Also according to the recommended book i'm far too young, it states mid-thirties, i'm not even 30.
I wouldn't rush to that conclusion. It just means you need to adjust, adapt, and you'll succeed another day. As the poster above suggested, you may benefit from researching depression, or going to see a therapist.
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On March 16 2011 00:19 Sayle wrote:
I don't understand. I thought people got burned out from working too hard but you spend half your work-day browsing TL? How many hours do you work per day/week? What other commitments do you have?
According to the book it's not "working too long", but "having too much work to do". I don't make overtime and don't work all the time, but that doesn't mean i don't have anything to do. Actually i have more tasks than i could solve in a lifetime, even if i would work 16 hours a day, 7 days a week... but after doing a lot of overtime at another workplace before, i learned that it doesn't help to work all the time, especially in such a job that requires a lot of clear thinking as does programming. You just produce more bugs, which means twice the work in the future... and in my current job i already have the bugs of my pre-predecessors, adding my own is not a good idea.
Also, i have to do a lot of task switching as i am responsible for 5 projects (only 2 of which i share with another programmer, but for problems i'm always the first to get asked), which is extra strain on my nerves.
I didn't spend that much time browsing the web in the beginning, but i got stressed so much that the time spent trying to relax a little at work grew to what it is now.
On March 16 2011 00:08 distant_voice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 23:37 Morfildur wrote:
I do not want to believe that, as it would mean a personal failure on my part - after all it means i'm too weak to live, while all others don't have that problem. Also according to the recommended book i'm far too young, it states mid-thirties, i'm not even 30.
this part makes it pretty clear that you really do have a problem. do something about your condition and start asap. go for some kind of therapy, this is probably the most important thing. if you can move back to where people you like live. maybe your parents can help you too. don't be shy to ask for help now, you'll only regret it later. it's not your fault that you are in this situation.
I always tried to rely on myself as much as possible. I agree that there is a problem, but i hope to find a solution that doesn't involve therapy.
As for moving somewhere where people live that i like: I live in the only town that is an option. I have a friend here (to be precise my ex-GF (no, there are no feelings, we really are just good friends)) and she tries to help me, but has enough problems on her own.
My parents or family are not an option, i relied on them for too long already while i tried to finish my education until i got the current job and could finally sustain myself.
If it's not my fault... who is then to blame? We are all responsible for our lives and i got into that situation, so i have to find a way out again.
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WOW! im exactly in the same phase in life.
i know exactly what you mean man.
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On March 16 2011 00:37 Roe wrote:Wow...I don't understand why a doctor would say you're burnt out. That seems like something a psychologist or psychiatrist would be qualified to say. I got burnt out from WoW during high school which, actually, eventually led to me quitting and doing better academically and emotionally. Yes, the cold and dark nature of winter can lead to physiological sluggishness through seasonal affective disorder and such. You might just be burnt out from the electro radiation from all the computer use, that contributed to mine. How many hours a day are you staring at a screen or near a computer/tv that's turned on? I think I went through a similar(though definitely less severe) case. Do you get any headaches? How do you feel about your living space and your neighborhood? Show nested quote +I do not want to believe that, as it would mean a personal failure on my part - after all it means i'm too weak to live, while all others don't have that problem. Also according to the recommended book i'm far too young, it states mid-thirties, i'm not even 30. I wouldn't rush to that conclusion. It just means you need to adjust, adapt, and you'll succeed another day. As the poster above suggested, you may benefit from researching depression, or going to see a therapist.
He didn't say that it is burnout, he just said it might be and recommended me the books to inform myself.
I sit on the PC too long, but i think i take enough off-time. Headaches... yes, exactly every saturday and sunday, no matter what i do on those days. As for living space, I have 80sqm for myself, though i use not even half of it. I'm thinking about moving into something smaller and cheaper, but getting the piano out of the room to another house is too much work atm, so not really worth it.
Maybe you are right, i'll just need to adjust a little more to the situation.
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Zurich15314 Posts
Disclaimer: I am not an expert (other than being a professional myself), but I have experienced a similar situation am pretty sure here is your problem:
On March 15 2011 23:37 Morfildur wrote:
- I work as programmer and i'm actually quite good at my job, since eventhough i spend half the workday these days browsing TL i'm still more productive than my coworkers, according to my superiors.
This is not a case of "burn out" (throw these books away, they are garbage), but rather something I heard being referred to as "bore out". I had a similar issue when my own job got really slow during the financial crisis and if anything I had less to do than ever. I felt like shit and experienced pretty much all the symptoms of burn out, and that while actually having less stress and overload than ever. Exact same issues of self doubt you describe (How am I weaker than everyone else?) too.
I was lucky enough to have a very good manager who recognized this and basically send me home for some time. When more projects came in and I got really involved in work again it all went away like nothing, and following that I had the best time in my professional life yet.
If you can, ask for more responsibility and/or different projects and tasks. Tell your manager you don't feel you are being used to your full potential.
I don't know how your work is structured so I can't give you any more specific advice, but basically you should get to a point where you can't possibly read TL for half your day and still do your work. Something is seriously wrong when you get through with that, and if anyone it's you who suffers from it.
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On March 16 2011 00:58 zatic wrote:Disclaimer: I am not an expert (other than being a professional myself), but I have experienced a similar situation am pretty sure here is your problem: Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 23:37 Morfildur wrote:
- I work as programmer and i'm actually quite good at my job, since eventhough i spend half the workday these days browsing TL i'm still more productive than my coworkers, according to my superiors. This is not a case of "burn out" (throw these books away, they are garbage), but rather something I heard being referred to as "bore out". I had a similar issue when my own job got really slow during the financial crisis and if anything I had less to do than ever. I felt like shit and experienced pretty much all the symptoms of burn out, and that while actually having less stress and overload than ever. Exact same issues of self doubt you describe (How am I weaker than everyone else?) too. I was lucky enough to have a very good manager who recognized this and basically send me home for some time. When more projects came in and I got really involved in work again it all went away like nothing, and following that I had the best time in my professional life yet. If you can, ask for more responsibility and/or different projects and tasks. Tell your manager you don't feel you are being used to your full potential. I don't know how your work is structured so I can't give you any more specific advice, but basically you should get to a point where you can't possibly read TL for half your day and still do your work. Something is seriously wrong when you get through with that, and if anyone it's you who suffers from it.
As i mentioned in another reply, i'm already responsible for 5 projects and have more tasks than i could ever help to solve, but somehow i just lose all motivation because it's always the same problems and i can't solve the root of the problems because that would take several weeks/month to do for the whole team if we'd stop all other development... so i just solve the symptoms every day without really changing anything.
It might still be bore out though, since while there is a lot of work, the hardest part about it is trying not to blow anything up while you have to develop on the live system. The programming part itself is quite boring. I will read a little about that.
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In all fairness, go talk to your manager about this if it's an option. Clearly something in your job is draining you. A good manager will recognize this and help you.
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
On March 16 2011 00:37 Roe wrote:
You might just be burnt out from the electro radiation from all the computer use, that contributed to mine.
I don't want to de-rail this thread, but I thought all that stuff about radiation from computers was proven to be nonsense? I sit in front of a computer almost every waking moment, but I don't feel any worse for it. Anecdotal evidence yes, which is why I'm asking.
Back on topic: you said you don't want to rely on your parents/family any more than you already have, which I can understand and is commendable, but seriously, they're your parents, they want to help you ^^
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On March 16 2011 01:44 Sayle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 00:37 Roe wrote:
You might just be burnt out from the electro radiation from all the computer use, that contributed to mine. I don't want to de-rail this thread, but I thought all that stuff about radiation from computers was proven to be nonsense? I sit in front of a computer almost every waking moment, but I don't feel any worse for it. Anecdotal evidence yes, which is why I'm asking. Back on topic: you said you don't want to rely on your parents/family any more than you already have, which I can understand and is commendable, but seriously, they're your parents, they want to help you ^^
That's a good point, which makes me more concerned for my own health if it is something else that's causing my sickness. :| It might just be the older machines(and screens, I've got one of the new ones which is supposed to be minimal damage compared to the old boxes). Certainly worth looking into, and I could ask some experts at my univ for the relevant studies.
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Clearly your job is too "easy". You should request harder assignments (without too much side projects bothering you) or join project where there is/are more experienced programmers than you so you could ask help from him/her. I guess having too many projects is hurting you, always just waiting problems to come rather than preventing them.
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Have the doctors check your thyroid.
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On March 15 2011 23:37 Morfildur wrote:
Since a few month i feel extremly exhausted, call in sick about once a month because i feel too weak to stand up and feel too tired after work and on weekends to do anything.
This doesn't sound like burnout, depression, or anything else psychosomatic.
It sounds like you have a chronic viral infection such as mononucleosis, or you just aren't getting enough sleep. Or some sort of other physical problem as others have mentioned. Depression will make you unhappy, but it won't make you tired.
You need to see a better doctor.
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Exercise 4-5 times a week. Every week. Take supplements like fish oil and vitamin D-3.
Depression does cause fatigue and exhaustion. Maybe get your thyroid levels checked and complete blood work done. Hope you get better soon man
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I think you need a vacation (for 1 or 2 weeks), preferably in a spa or what makes you feel relaxed.
Try to forget about your troubles and just relax.
I know this is a tall order to ask because you can't just leave your work but please consider this before taking medicine.
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Thanks for the suggestions. I'll think a little more about what i'll do to solve the problem.
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On March 16 2011 04:05 Uranium wrote:
Depression will make you unhappy, but it won't make you tired.
Are you serious? Depression can lead to a WHOLE lot of physical symptoms, can create ulcers and whatnot. Being constantly tired due to being lethargic (having no "drive") is by no means something unexpected.
What I find interesting is that many (and the OP himself) solely focus on the work. You mentioned that your personal life pretty much sucks - couldn't it be that this at the very least contributes to your current condition?
I my opinion you have to find "something" in your life to strive for. Be it work-related OR be it personal-life-related. The human being, in my experience, can't "function" if we are simply existing...that's exactly where all this "what's the purpose of life" comes from. We ultimately will go insane if there's nothing there to live for, to work for, to get up for in the morning.
My personal life isn't super-exciting either, but currently I'm working (teaching/researching) at the university and it's quite fun. I don't know what I would do outside such an environment with intelligent people who also provide some sort of a challenge for me, to always keep up.
My core point is: from what you've written you currently don't have a core, underlying "goal" neither in your work-life nor in your personal-life. The fact that you are better than your colleagues is a very BAD thing because it means you've already achieved pretty much the optimum what there is - being the most efficient employee. It sounds as if not the "quantity" of work is the problem but the "quality". You seem to have enough stuff to worry about, but not "challenging" stuff...stuff you can do kinda routinely without having to really focus, concentrate on solving a problem. Like executing a 4 gate over and over and winning with it over and over....not having to think about what you are doing as much as would be best to improve your "game" (here: your working experience). As others have suggested, you should/could try to talk to superiors about your tasks not being as challenging...nevertheless I realize this is helluva difficult. Also it would be good to know if there's any chance of promotion for you. Because this could also lead to more motivation, actively trying to get promoted (therefore: challenge) as early as possible.
The other option would be to work on your personal life. As we all know, many people are stuck within shitty jobs...and STILL are happy because of a very cool personal life. For those people their work only serves the purpose of getting enough money to live their life outside of work. That's ok too, because - while having no intrinsic value - work offers extrinsic value that also keeps them going. Knowing that you have a beautiful girlfriend that would love to go on holiday with you, and also knowing that you need to work hard to be able to afford the kind of holiday you would both like....this is also something that offers motivation.
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I'm just coming from the doctor with the results of a blood test, after i was too weak to work last week. Except for a little too high cholesterine values due to not very healthy food, every value is perfectly normal. It's not the thyroids or anything physical, so it seems like it's really just psychological. Sleepingdog probably is very close to it, but well... seems like i really have to go to a therapy 
I fail at life :/
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I have similar problems and some good advice I have had is
1) Keep a list of things you want to do and then work through them. Put down anything that is on your mind on the list. This is very useful because it means that when you are not at work you don't have to worry about things you have to do at work, and you also get a lot done.
2) Keep your work at work. Have clear boundaries between your home life and work.
3) Realise that for most people work is just a way to get money to live, and that is absolutely fine and normal. Do something you enjoy in your free time, and make sure it is something social.
As fun as computer games are, they don't help people who are depressives. I find that if I'm spending too much time on the internet/gaming that I feel terrible. You shouldn't play more than a couple of hours a day, and if I was you I'd stop surfing the internet so much as well.
Everybody needs real social contact, and from what I have read, that is what is most missing from your life at the moment.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
I've burnt out before. Granted, it was a bit more complicated than just burning out.
Like a lot of things, I think recovering from burn out varies from person to person. Are you getting as much sleep as you feel you need? When I burnt out I was getting on average two hours of sleep a day, and these days if I don't get at least 7-8 hours of sleep I'm just a zombie for the rest of the day. The amount of sleep a person needs varies, so make sure you're getting as much sleep as you think you require.
How do you feel about your life as it currently is? Are you satisfied with the direction it's heading? When I burnt out my future felt dark and although I tried not to worry about it, it ate me up inside.
What helped rejuvenate me, aside from my break, were friends I could rely on for a change of pace. Going outside and letting the world embrace you may help energize you. Changing your daily mundane routine to something that you can be more excited about is a good step forward.
Also, if there's something that you feel you need to do, do it. Don't let anything linger on too long without resolution. That just creates unwanted stress, no matter how little. Need to do the laundry? Do it. Need to go to the dentist? Pick up your phone and make an appointment. Unsatisfied with how you look and feel you need to get in shape? Go to the store and buy some weights, go outside and do some jogging, or buy a workout video like P90x or Insanity and get cracking. What really helps me is having a friend that can motivate me, because when it comes to working out, I don't have the discipline to commit to a set routine.
I think this is one of the hardest things, but it'll make you feel a lot better when you accomplish your tasks. If you have a goal, work towards accomplishing it immediately. Again, this may be incredibly difficult. I know for me it was (and still is at times).
This seems cliche, but do you have any unresolved conflicts that are bothering you at present? If you're filled with regret or depression it can eat you up inside and slowly drain your energy. You'll have to either resolve your issues or accept them for what they are. For me, I did the latter, and accepted everything as a life experience and moved on. Sometimes I still think back on the issues, but I always come back to the same conclusion and don't let it bother me.
Since your problem is allegedly psychological, I think those issues listed above will need some major pondering on your behalf. Overall you want to lead a happy life and strive for an even better future. Who doesn't want to be happy, right? 
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The problem with all that social stuff is, that i'm someone who moved a lot, never stayed long enough in one place to make friends. I'm not the guy who goes somewhere alone and makes friends and i don't know anyone to do stuff with.
I feel like i'm really in a lose-lose situation. I don't even have any power to do anything after work, i sit down and feel tired and dead. There are a thousand things i should do, i try, but it's impossible, after work i'm tired, on the weekends i'm tired plus get a horrible headache...
Well, maybe the future will bring me some luck for a change.
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On March 16 2011 00:58 zatic wrote:Disclaimer: I am not an expert (other than being a professional myself), but I have experienced a similar situation am pretty sure here is your problem: Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 23:37 Morfildur wrote:
- I work as programmer and i'm actually quite good at my job, since eventhough i spend half the workday these days browsing TL i'm still more productive than my coworkers, according to my superiors. This is not a case of "burn out" (throw these books away, they are garbage), but rather something I heard being referred to as "bore out". I had a similar issue when my own job got really slow during the financial crisis and if anything I had less to do than ever. I felt like shit and experienced pretty much all the symptoms of burn out, and that while actually having less stress and overload than ever. Exact same issues of self doubt you describe (How am I weaker than everyone else?) too. I was lucky enough to have a very good manager who recognized this and basically send me home for some time. When more projects came in and I got really involved in work again it all went away like nothing, and following that I had the best time in my professional life yet. If you can, ask for more responsibility and/or different projects and tasks. Tell your manager you don't feel you are being used to your full potential. I don't know how your work is structured so I can't give you any more specific advice, but basically you should get to a point where you can't possibly read TL for half your day and still do your work. Something is seriously wrong when you get through with that, and if anyone it's you who suffers from it.
I agree with this.
Also if you're really good at programming and need a break from your job, maybe you should try freelancing. You don't even have to quit your job, just pick up some extra projects, if you're feeling bored.
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EPT
