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The Ramblings of TL's Resident Theologian. - Page 4

Blogs > GeneralissimoNero
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Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 04:11:39
March 15 2011 04:10 GMT
#61
In the mean time, I have a question for you. How do you feel about religion?


I feel that it boils down to where someone is born if you don't become atheist. (And even being an atheist depends on how much your parents forced religion on you) It doesn't even seem like a choice because you're never exposed to other religions at an early age to decide which one is for you, if any at all. For example, I live in an area that is predominately Roman Catholic. People don't know jackshit about any other religion, yet they still claim it is their choice that they chose to be Catholic. It certainly is, but it is a close-minded decision for sure.

So do you think if you were raised in a different country (India perhaps) with basically the same type of parents, but they taught you Hindu traditions instead of Christian traditions, would you still be Christian? With that in mind, doesn't it seem like religion isn't really a choice, but more of luck as in where you were born?

Rabbitmaster
Profile Joined August 2010
1357 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 04:16:48
March 15 2011 04:15 GMT
#62
How do you feel about the fact that the pope tells people that condoms INCREASE the risk of spreading the HIV virus?
Thus killing millions and millions(mainly africans)
God is dead.
pyaar
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States423 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 21:21:02
March 15 2011 04:40 GMT
#63
On March 15 2011 07:38 Enervate wrote:
I am a Christian and I also believe in God. It's interesting to me how quickly people who think they are so intelligent are so dismissive of the existence of god. "I believe in science" is always a classic argument. There is actually no science that contradicts the existence of god. I'm talking about the mere existence of god, not any specific religions or whatever. I don't mind if people have a different view on god from me. (I also have nothing against you if you don't believe in god. People are free to come to their own conclusions.) People just seem to think that belief in god directly correlates with stupidity, and the smart people like to pretend they know better than others.

First, an argument against belief in god is burden of proof. People always say prove it or god doesn't exist. This argument isn't particularly effective in my opinion because I can't prove anyone's existence besides my own. I can't actually prove you exist, or anything exists besides myself, but the fact that I think, and that I think about these things, is enough to tell me they exist and justify my beliefs in their existence from a logical standpoint.

Basically, how could I think up something that does not exist if I exist? Here I will preemptively argue against stuff like unicorns by saying they are clearly grounded in reality, like from a horse or whatever.

The second argument I hear is this: why does god let so much pain and suffering occur? Because ultimately, life is finite while heaven is infinite. So let's look at this from a mathematical standpoint. Let's say suffering in this world = -5000 units of pleasure. Now pleasure in heaven = infinity. Infinity-5000=infinity. Also, the fact that people have experienced suffering during life allows them to recognize happiness and bliss.

But how do you know heaven exists? Well, I don't pretend like there is a physical place up in the sky where we go to chill on clouds after we die. But I can easily believe that the state of our mind is permanent when we die. Clearly, we won't be experiencing new things after we die. If I am happy with my life when I die, then I will be in heaven. This can be simplified to if I did good things, I will be in heaven. And everyone I know, everything I did, will be forever preserved as such.

Now, you might argue that you could be happy when you die even without believing in god. But how can you? You will always want to live longer if you don't believe there is anything for you after death. You can't ever be satisfied with your life. You might come to the conclusion that you can't have any more of life, and come to terms with said conclusion, but you would still readily accept life over death if you had the opportunity, and therefore you can't be satisfied. Therefore, you won't be truly happy with the fact that you are dying, and therefore you won't be in heaven.

Life is so short. Basically, I wish people would believe that life is not meaningless or trivial, which it would be if nothing existed permanently, god.


I don't have time to pick this apart exhaustively, but I'll just say that it's very questionable to me to assert that the burden of proof isnt on the believer only because of Descartes' very very questionable premises.

edit: also, 100% with the guy below the guy below me.
blankspace
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States292 Posts
March 15 2011 05:12 GMT
#64
The burden of "proof" is on the believer but no such proof can be given.

Suppose you were a normal person 2000 years back and you saw a guy named Jesus. He walked around and you witnessed him healing people and even reviving someone from the dead! Then he makes claims about the supernatural, metaphysical, and extraordinary things. Do his miracles prove the truth of his statements? How can you know you aren't just being deceived? Why do you think he could be trusted? Even in this case, ultimately rationality could not be your guide. Instead, it is more an instinct or intuition about how you think the world works.


The scientific method has had extraordinary success over the past few hundred years. Science operates on the assumption that no supernatural forces drive the world. This assumption cannot be proven but because it has been so useful it is employed for practical purposes over and over again.

Personally though, I think the success of science has made people too hasty to dismiss the supernatural. Yes, there are many contradictions in world religions and have been perversions and evil followers. I also don't buy into any of the well established religions as the final word: surely they must have been corrupted by humanity. Yet as mere humans in this grand universe, I think we should maybe be more humble. Try as we may, there is so much out there that our minds just can't rationally make sense of.



Hello friends
Gofarman
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada645 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-20 03:13:47
March 15 2011 06:12 GMT
#65
The OP is just full of tripe, classic liberal catholic "Christian" who picks out the parts he likes ie Heaven and decides that he knows better then the people that died for their faith.

You believe and you evangelize because you see that people have value and are worthy to be saved from eternal damnation or you are one of two things; Selfish or and Idiot.

Want the view point from an atheist? watch this on youtube Penn Teller says it best (Video)

You can claim to be a christian and not act on it but as the bible says;

Rev 3:15-16
I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.


The bible is truth or the insane ramblings of old men, you choose, but for all that is holy and good CHOOSE.
Draconizard
Profile Joined October 2008
628 Posts
March 15 2011 06:26 GMT
#66
Religion when properly deployed can be one of the most useful tools in the arsenal of any aspiring leader. There is little more potent than a horde of fanatics bound to your cause by unshakable faith, gladly willing to trade their mundane existences for some nebulous rewards in the afterlife from the almighty (as conveniently interpreted by you, of course).

Yes, religion will always have its place among us. What greater force can one claim to have on his side than that of God?
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