On the local (Philippine) news earlier, a child from a Philippine Island (Antique) is allegedly able to incinerate objects by saying the word "sunog" which means fire in Filipino. The original video link is in Filipino, so I'm going to translate it for you non-verbatim:
A child in Antique, Philippines was noted to be able to create fire from just saying the word "sunog". One of Em-em's (Child's name) clothes has been reportedly incinerated after she pointed at it. People are uncertain whether it incinerated BEFORE Em-em pointed at it, or whether it incinerated after. The local Mayor ordered an investigation, and had the incinerated cloth sent to an NBI facility for inspection. The results yielded surprising results: the cloth Em-em had burned did not have any trace of fuel or highly flammable materials such as oil, Methane etc AT ALL.
A video of Em-em's baptism at a local church was caught on tape. It shows that one of the papers on the Church's bulletin board had gone aflame after the child pointed at it and said "sunog".
Scientists are baffled and want to place Em-em in a controlled environment, but laws state that she is too young to be involved in experiments. Trauma may result from experiments. Em-em's parents are still uncertain whether they approve of experimentation. Experts however, remain skeptical.
I agree; I'm more worried about Japan at the moment, which is reeling from the earthquake+tsunami, and Libya, which is no longer the focus of international attention. The world is changing and I have no time for hoax videos 8]
While pretty curious about the subject (and with warranted skepticism) I really want to point out that "Discuss" at the end of an opening topic is one of my largest pet peeves.
Definitely pretty fascinated with the idea and will research when I'm less under the influence
I'm okay with people telling me that they are skeptical, however I find it extremely idiotic for people of your "intelligence level" to immediately dismiss this as a hoax.
True, Japan is a bigger problem. However, I posted this to present something controversial to you guys. Why would I bother posting about Japan, when most people know about it anyway?
If that is all the information given and there have been no "tests" to whether she can actually make things light on fire by willing it, then I'm not going to believe it.
On March 12 2011 18:13 Raii wrote: Yes. How closed-minded can you get? What, you think I'm not skeptical?
I suppose I'm just a close-minded dude. I don't believe that the material universe responds to Filipino. I'm sorry, but I honestly can't entertain that notion for a second.
And I guess while we're at it, I'll go ahead and register my skepticism of your skepticism.
No offense OP, interesting post and I appreciate that it's under blogs, not under the general forum or news forum, but this is still a ridiculous story.
I'll consider the other side for a moment. "sunog"? Fire, in Filipino? If so, she doesn't need to say anything, she can just point at something and use her "powers" to set it on fire.
What really makes this look unrealistic is the camera shots; it's not like they had her stand on one side of a room, point at something and set it on fire. Things were on fire and they zoomed in on these things.
I'll provide an alternate possibility/explanation. It's called "magic," the deception of the senses using illusions.
I won't believe it but I won't discount it entirely. All I can trust is my gut feeling, and my gut feeling tells me you are one of TL's infamous trolls.
If it's close minded to not believe that a person can incinerate objects by saying the word for fire. Then does that mean that we should also consider believing everything written in the tabloids?
On another note, I will believe it if there is more research about this and there is some solid evidence.
On March 12 2011 18:13 Raii wrote: Yes. How closed-minded can you get? What, you think I'm not skeptical?
So, since you seem to think that this story is plausible, what sort of method do you think the child is using to set things on fire? What sort of forces are involved? Perhaps you think it has a religious significance?
On March 12 2011 18:18 KrauserII wrote: If it's close minded to not believe that a person can incinerate objects by saying the word for fire. Then does that mean that we should also consider believing everything written in the tabloids?
On another note, I will believe it if there is more research about this and there is some solid evidence.
Being close-minded does not necessarily mean that you automatically BELIEVE everything you see/are told.
I will update this after researches have been conducted.
On March 12 2011 18:13 Raii wrote: Yes. How closed-minded can you get? What, you think I'm not skeptical?
So, since you seem to think that this story is plausible, what sort of method do you think the child is using to set things on fire? What sort of forces are involved? Perhaps you think it has a religious significance?
That is exactly why I'm interested in this. It would be interesting to find out whether this is a hoax or not. No, I could care less about religion. Every supernatural occurrence in history that has been proven "true" always had a scientific explanation. Now if this kid can actually create fire, the best question would be, how? If not, what possible environmental factors can possibly contribute to a logical explanation to the "coincidence"?
On March 12 2011 18:18 Xstatic wrote: No offense OP, interesting post and I appreciate that it's under blogs, not under the general forum or news forum, but this is still a ridiculous story.
I'll consider the other side for a moment. "sunog"? Fire, in Filipino? If so, she doesn't need to say anything, she can just point at something and use her "powers" to set it on fire.
What really makes this look unrealistic is the camera shots; it's not like they had her stand on one side of a room, point at something and set it on fire. Things were on fire and they zoomed in on these things.
I'll provide an alternate possibility/explanation. It's called "magic," the deception of the senses using illusions.
I won't believe it but I won't discount it entirely. All I can trust is my gut feeling, and my gut feeling tells me you are one of TL's infamous trolls.
I'm happy that you don't "discount it entirely". However, calling me a troll is unwarranted. Apparently, me being a "probe-rank" is sufficient enough to call me "an infamous troll."
Ah yes, the prejudiced assumptions of forum veterans.
On March 12 2011 18:18 Raii wrote: Wow, then I guess it sucks to be you. Go ahead, be skeptical. Cute little attempt at being racist though.
You, my friend, are being an obnoxious OP. What knee-jerk reactions you have—people that disagree with me are idiots; people that mention a language by name are racists. Grow up, man.
On March 12 2011 18:13 Raii wrote: Yes. How closed-minded can you get? What, you think I'm not skeptical?
So, since you seem to think that this story is plausible, what sort of method do you think the child is using to set things on fire? What sort of forces are involved? Perhaps you think it has a religious significance?
That is exactly why I'm interested in this. It would be interesting to find out whether this is a hoax or not. No, I could care less about religion. Every supernatural occurrence in history that has been proven "true" always had a scientific explanation. Now if this kid can actually create fire, the best question would be, how? If not, what possible environmental factors can possibly contribute to a logical explanation to the "coincidence"?
if it was "proven true" then it wouldn't be supernatural...
"Being close-minded does not necessarily mean that you automatically BELIEVE everything you see/are told."
I think you mean being open-minded does not entail believing everything. OP, I've googled it repeatedly. No results. Send us a news article instead of a video that looks like it could have been staged and we can discuss something. Otherwise, without anything to discuss, you're only going to get skeptics and you'll spend your next 10 posts repeating "don't be skeptical until we get more evidence, it might be possible!"
You being probe-rank has nothing to do with how I view you as a poster. Only your words and actions do, and I find nothing wrong with either, so far.
In defense of us skeptics, though, 99.999999% of people on TL have been brought up to believe that fire is started with a match or a spark. So naturally we demand some kind of explanation or some more "data" to convince us. Until then, interesting article, enjoyed watching it and I'm glad the girl gets some media attention and that the news corporation is making more money, but the story itself has nothing to flesh it out.
Finally, like most skeptics and critics have said, the video quality + camera shots are all we have to go on. That, and the words of these people. Other than that it doesn't say much.
On March 12 2011 18:18 Raii wrote: Wow, then I guess it sucks to be you. Go ahead, be skeptical. Cute little attempt at being racist though.
You, my friend, are being an obnoxious OP. What knee-jerk reactions you have—people that disagree with me are idiots; people that mention a language by name are racists. Grow up, man.
Okay, I guess I'm just an obnoxious dude. Seriously though, I don't think I called anyone who disagreed "idiot". Re-read my posts please.
Since this thread is turning into a flame war, let's tone down here, shall we?
On March 12 2011 18:33 Xstatic wrote: "Being close-minded does not necessarily mean that you automatically BELIEVE everything you see/are told."
I think you mean being open-minded does not entail believing everything. OP, I've googled it repeatedly. No results. Send us a news article instead of a video that looks like it could have been staged and we can discuss something. Otherwise, without anything to discuss, you're only going to get skeptics and you'll spend your next 10 posts repeating "don't be skeptical until we get more evidence, it might be possible!"
You being probe-rank has nothing to do with how I view you as a poster. Only your words and actions do, and I find nothing wrong with either, so far.
In defense of us skeptics, though, 99.999999% of people on TL have been brought up to believe that fire is started with a match or a spark. So naturally we demand some kind of explanation or some more "data" to convince us. Until then, interesting article, enjoyed watching it and I'm glad the girl gets some media attention and that the news corporation is making more money, but the story itself has nothing to flesh it out.
Finally, like most skeptics and critics have said, the video quality + camera shots are all we have to go on. That, and the words of these people. Other than that it doesn't say much.
Agreed, being open-minded does not entail believe everything; but, it does entail considering possible sides to a subject.
Yes, I am aware that google does not yield results. All the articles pertaining to this are in Filipino, so English queries do not work.
The data is to follow, after scientific research/experiments have been conducted.
It's good to know that some people are able to dissect their stand. Majority of the skeptics just posted in a way synonymous to "LOL WEIRD STORY. HOAX LOLOLOL".
if it was "proven true" then it wouldn't be supernatural...
Correction: Supernatural, in a manner pertaining to the views people held towards the subject BEFORE scientific research has been conducted. You interpreted incorrectly.
On March 12 2011 18:40 prototype. wrote: If the fire casting process is as simple as pointing and saying a word, why do we only get video of it after something is set on fire?
Not to mention how odd that the family would own a video camera in such poor living conditions.
The video featuring the burning cloth was taken when the media came to the child's home. The video of the child's baptism in the church wasn't taken by the child's parents.
On March 12 2011 18:18 Raii wrote: Wow, then I guess it sucks to be you. Go ahead, be skeptical. Cute little attempt at being racist though.
You, my friend, are being an obnoxious OP. What knee-jerk reactions you have—people that disagree with me are idiots; people that mention a language by name are racists. Grow up, man.
Okay, I guess I'm just an obnoxious dude. Seriously though, I don't think I called anyone who disagreed "idiot". Re-read my posts please.
Since this thread is turning into a flame war, let's tone down here, shall we?
Here you are:
On March 12 2011 18:04 Raii wrote: I'm okay with people telling me that they are skeptical, however I find it extremely idiotic for people of your "intelligence level" to immediately dismiss this as a hoax.
You are the reason that this thread is "turning into a flame war." You responded negatively to anyone who doubts your extremely dubious story, and guess what? That's pretty much everyone. The tone in here is your doing.
it does entail considering possible sides to a subject.
Indeed, I've considered the following aspects in descending order:
1. Creative video editing 2.
The results yielded surprising results: the cloth Em-em had burned did not have any trace of fuel (Nitrogen, Oil, Methane etc)
?????? Someone's clueless. 3. Insight into tabloid marketing
The data is to follow, after scientific research/experiments have been conducted.
It's good to know that some people are able to dissect their stand. Majority of the skeptics just posted in a way synonymous to "LOL WEIRD STORY. HOAX LOLOLOL".
So...would you like to buy my perpetual motion machine?
Data/research to follow. Please don't call me a crackpot.
I wish she were here right now to "ignite" this flame war.
On March 12 2011 18:00 Xstatic wrote: I agree; I'm more worried about Japan at the moment, which is reeling from the earthquake+tsunami, and Libya, which is no longer the focus of international attention. The world is changing and I have no time for hoax videos 8]
This triggered the tone. I believe I called dismissing the videos as hoaxes as idiotic, not the poster.
I don't think I posted in an aggressive manner towards anyone until you had to point it out.
On March 12 2011 18:00 Xstatic wrote: I agree; I'm more worried about Japan at the moment, which is reeling from the earthquake+tsunami, and Libya, which is no longer the focus of international attention. The world is changing and I have no time for hoax videos 8]
This triggered the tone. I believe I called dismissing the videos as hoaxes as idiotic, not the poster.
I don't think I posted in an aggressive manner towards anyone until you had to point it out.
Just allow me to say that it's been a real pleasure talking with you. I hope that this thread continues to produce quality discussion, and I hope the attention that this event will inevitably draw from the international scientific community satisfies you with both its academic rigor and open-mindedness.
Well, in any case--besides X-Men, I do believe that JK Rowling wrote some quality work about telepathically induced firestarting (and explosions), perhaps that lends some precedence in the literature for Mr. Em-Em's "abilities"?
You should look into it. I heard it was a big hit and millions of people read her publications.
Just allow me to say that it's been a real pleasure talking with you. I hope that this thread continues to produce quality discussion, and I hope the attention that this event will inevitably draw from the international scientific community satisfies you with both its academic rigor and open-mindedness.
Same here.
Well, in any case--besides X-Men, I do believe that JK Rowling wrote some quality work about telepathically induced firestarting (and explosions), perhaps that lends some precedence in the literature for Mr. Em-Em's "abilities"?
You should look into it. I heard it was a big hit and millions of people read her publication.
Miss, not Mister. And indeed, I see you are highly knowledgeable about the topic. Thank you for your very insightful contribution.
I would love for this to be true, but are we looking at the same videos? o_o'' This is a cruel joke of a publicity stunt lol if this were real they wouldn't be doing these crappy camera angles and hiding the cloth while it's being "lit" and stuff.
This is redicelous. I feel sorry you believe there is a slight chance this isn't an hoax. But after reading all your replies I can understand why you would. Maybe at some future time you will start to understand that suspcious circemstances + unlikely story + no meanstream coverage = hoax.
On March 12 2011 19:08 KawaiiRice wrote: I would love for this to be true, but are we looking at the same videos? o_o'' This is a cruel joke of a publicity stunt lol if this were real they wouldn't be doing these crappy camera angles and hiding the cloth while it's being "lit" and stuff.
The videos are from one of the Philippines' largest broadcasting companies, so the videos do get a few additional points for credibility. Yes, it's extremely frustrating that the camera angles suck. I do hope they actually put more investigation on this. If this were a hoax, well, let's say that could mean the downfall of millions of dollars worth of a company.
Don't worry "reputable" media outlets all over the world make shit up all the time. I would know the national media in my country implicated that there were some sort of racewars going on in my high school o.o
On March 12 2011 19:11 Marradron wrote: This is redicelous. I feel sorry you believe there is a slight chance this isn't an hoax. But after reading all your replies I can understand why you would. Maybe at some future time you will start to understand that suspcious circemstances + unlikely story + no meanstream coverage = hoax.
Yes I am aware of that. I really am leaning towards hoax here, but that fact that a mainstream broadcasting company in the Philippines released this news, does make me think twice about automatically dismissing this as a publicity stunt. I know that not everything on television is true, but really it does make me think about possibilities.
Every supernatural occurrence in history that has been proven "true"
Such as?
1. Credibility ruins viewer trust, essentially, it could ruin their ratings and viewer numbers in the long run. That is, assuming viewers are reasonable enough to not have any of their made up stories any longer.
On March 12 2011 19:15 ShadeR wrote: Don't worry "reputable" media outlets all over the world make shit up all the time. I would know the national media in my country implicated that there were some sort of racewars going on in my high school o.o
True. But I'm also interested in how long they can keep up this "hoax" if this really is one.
On March 12 2011 19:11 Raii wrote: If this were a hoax, well, let's say that could mean the downfall of millions of dollars worth of a company.
Why is that?
Every supernatural occurrence in history that has been proven "true"
Such as?
1. Credibility ruins viewer trust, essentially, it could ruin their ratings and viewer numbers in the long run. That is, assuming viewers are reasonable enough to not have any of their made up stories any longer.
The media covering this fire-girl is just there recording her. They're not claiming she has superpowers and when it turns out to be a hoax they will just say they were tricked.
The reason why you are getting so many negative responses is because bullshit like this appears everyday. How bout making a deal about it once they actually have some real evidence...But oh wait they're already claiming the girl is too young and will probably have a whole bunch of reasons why they can't get the proof. I mean just stop for a second and think. If she really could do this, why don't they just tell her to point at something and set it on fire while taping it?
On March 12 2011 19:11 Raii wrote: If this were a hoax, well, let's say that could mean the downfall of millions of dollars worth of a company.
Why is that?
Every supernatural occurrence in history that has been proven "true"
Such as?
1. Credibility ruins viewer trust, essentially, it could ruin their ratings and viewer numbers in the long run. That is, assuming viewers are reasonable enough to not have any of their made up stories any longer.
The media covering this fire-girl is just there recording her. They're not claiming she has superpowers and when it turns out to be a hoax they will just say they were tricked.
The reason why you are getting so many negative responses is because bullshit like this appears everyday. How bout making a deal about it once they actually have some real evidence...But oh wait they're already claiming the girl is too young and will probably have a whole bunch of reasons why they can't get the proof. I mean just stop for a second and think. If she really could do this, why don't they just tell her to point at something and set it on fire while taping it?
Point taken. I really want to somehow contact the company and ask for clear footage, but obviously it will be a ridiculous waste of time. I guess we'll just have to see what happens next.
On March 12 2011 19:11 Raii wrote: If this were a hoax, well, let's say that could mean the downfall of millions of dollars worth of a company.
Why is that?
Every supernatural occurrence in history that has been proven "true"
Such as?
1. Credibility ruins viewer trust, essentially, it could ruin their ratings and viewer numbers in the long run. That is, assuming viewers are reasonable enough to not have any of their made up stories any longer.
The media covering this fire-girl is just there recording her. They're not claiming she has superpowers and when it turns out to be a hoax they will just say they were tricked.
The reason why you are getting so many negative responses is because bullshit like this appears everyday. How bout making a deal about it once they actually have some real evidence...But oh wait they're already claiming the girl is too young and will probably have a whole bunch of reasons why they can't get the proof. I mean just stop for a second and think. If she really could do this, why don't they just tell her to point at something and set it on fire while taping it?
This is what I was thinking/hoping for as well. A moment where indeed she did point/yelled at something to see it being set on fire. Instead, some vague shots that could just as well be a "normal day in the life of people living in town x, and something caught fire" report. That sucks, 'cause I'm a sucker for stuff like this. Same with UFOs and other kind of stuff. The sad truth is that people want to believe (so do I, but damnit rational thinking/hard proof always gets me) this kind of stuff really hard, and tend to then ignore the facts or think straight for a moment. As mentioned, I really like this kind of stuff myself but blantly believing "the news" (public station or commercial, doesn't matter that much), or just one source in general isn't a good thing. Not keeping track of rational sense besides that, isn't making it any better either.
I want to believe. But this isn't helping me believe harder
On March 12 2011 19:25 cha0 wrote: But oh wait they're already claiming the girl is too young
Sorry to be nit-picky, but I don't think they're claiming she is too young - she actually is young, very young in fact.
But anyway, I too remained sceptical as they did not show any footage of any material igniting... only footage of stuff just on fire. I fear that the whole thing may be a hoax, just in order for the family of the girl to get money.. (before you start calling me racist, I'm Filipino and I know how poverty-stricken some of the bayans are)
okay i m skeptical but I also am a scientist so let us analyse it for a second, shall we?
In the current understanding of physics there are 4 groups of forces. Gravity, Electromagnetism(noted EM in the rest of this post), strong interaction and weak interaction.
In order for something to burn it requires an increase in energy, that is to say an increased vibration of its atoms.
Now in order for gravity to heat something up it requires a movement and a high speed, the heating then occuring through friction (think about a shuttle reentering atmosphere, or a meteor). This is obviously not the case here.
weak and strong interaction only occur at atomic/molecular distances and cannot be the cause here either, the distance being way too big
So we re left with EM.
If the girl were radiating EM, everything would burn between said girl and the target object, and even all around her (it s extremely likely that such a radiating EM field be isotropic, unless emited by a specific organ in a mono directionnal way, i ll come back to this later).
Now the fact that it seems to only happen (once again i m considering the OP post as true, for the sake of demonstration) when she says the word fire is interesting. Voice indeed travel rather forward, creating waves in the air (that generates sound). the only way for this to heat up an object to the point of burning would be to heat the specific resonance frequency of one of the material composing the direct.
Let s imagine a pure iron target. If "fire" was introducing a resonance then the target would resonate (ofc) and be destroyed (structural rupture, but not fire!)
In order to cause fire one element inside a polymaterial structure has to resonate, that creates a friction with the other elements and the whole things eventually burns.
But that would be extremly situational and highly unlikely (though physically possible, if a material had a resonating frequency alike one of the word "fire", yet the voice is only between 20Hz and 20kHz and not powerful enough to generate such a vibration in a solid object)
Unfortunately you shared this on the Internet, which means nobody will believe you regardless if it's true or not. Personally I'll wait until they do it in a controlled environment to make an opinion.
On March 12 2011 19:15 ShadeR wrote: Don't worry "reputable" media outlets all over the world make shit up all the time. I would know the national media in my country implicated that there were some sort of racewars going on in my high school o.o
True. But I'm also interested in how long they can keep up this "hoax" if this really is one.
They're not gonna keep up this "hoax". Chances are, there will never be any update to this news ever again.
huh. lucky kid is now a millionaire i guess, they should call up JREF, one of the prelim requirements is already fulfilled (media profile) that is, unless getting a million bucks is too traumatic =\ lols
Right, so I'll leave this as is for the sake of discussion [for the interested] and speculation, and ridiculous fire puns. I'll update as soon as news about this surfaces. If there aren't any news about this after a week, yeah declaring this as a hoax 100%. Right now it's hovering between 99.5% and 99.9%
EPT
