EPTThe Internet vs. Religion - Page 3
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whaty0uwant
New Zealand346 Posts
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
On March 05 2011 23:30 DongWang wrote: You know what contradicts religion almost 100%? Science. Saying you believe in evolution but still claim to be a devout Christian is fucking retarded. Saying you believe in the big bang yet still claiming you are a christian must be a massive slap in the face to this god fellow. And also, Cloud are you saying you have to be a scientist in order to have/use logic? Wow lol No I'm saying that you're not thinking logically and you have some huge assumptions about christians, and you're calling the OP a retard without knowing jack about what you're talking about. Or even being able to read posts correctly. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13973 Posts
On March 05 2011 23:30 DongWang wrote: You know what contradicts religion almost 100%? Science. Saying you believe in evolution but still claim to be a devout Christian is fucking retarded. Saying you believe in the big bang yet still claiming you are a christian must be a massive slap in the face to this god fellow. And also, Cloud are you saying you have to be a scientist in order to have/use logic? Wow lol yes because no scientist was ever a Christian no scientist believes in god. the man who created evolution as a whole totally hated Christians and wanted to find a way to disprove it. You sound just like the westburo people I hope you realize that. there to put it quite simply is a lot of hate on both sides of the debate. For me and mine Jesus said that the 2 most important commandments are 1. you shall have no other god before me. and 2. love your neighbor as yourself. I believe that he purposefully meant that to mean that it didn't matter who he/she was you where to love them. I don't really think converting online can work well when you have such an impersonal connection between people. The internet gives so much hate and blares it at you at such a volume that no civil debate is ever published or even widly heard. There is such a wild need for facts to back up everything for everything on the internet. I don't know about the next guy but I never believed in god because I know hes real. I say it out to everyone in this fact because the true essence of religion is based in faith. My faith is what guides my daily actions, my faith is what I cling to before I go to bed at night happy that whatever may happen while I sleep I wake up better then I am now. TLDR The internet is based on facts. Religion is based on faith. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28678 Posts
you are essentially the embodiment of your hate. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
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ArcticVanguard
United States450 Posts
If you're finding the internet to be a place that's "one big insult," then maybe you're spending your time in the wrong places, 'cause one thing's for sure, it sure seemed like the same thing for me, but in reverse. That is, I'm an atheist and it seemed like "one big insult," as you put it. If you can't find a place tolerant of you, then go to a different place and stay there. Or don't bring up religion. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28678 Posts
On March 06 2011 00:16 ArcticVanguard wrote: Atheists don't have any reason to "convert" you that I can think of. If an atheist is trying to convert you, either he's a jerk, been hurt my someone religious, or you ticked him off somehow. Atheists gain nothing from turning you into a nonbeliever. We don't get a reward or anything like that. If you're finding the internet to be a place that's "one big insult," then maybe you're spending your time in the wrong places, 'cause one thing's for sure, it sure seemed like the same thing for me, but in reverse. That is, I'm an atheist and it seemed like "one big insult," as you put it. If you can't find a place tolerant of you, then go to a different place and stay there. Or don't bring up religion. of course atheists have a reason to try to convert/ be aggressive/ denounce religion. it makes us feel superior, hence it makes us feel good, and considering how we believe this is our only life, that's really all we're going for. it's also preferable that less people believe we're going to be damned for eternity, and it'd be good (especially for americans) if atheism was more widespread because that would also mean it would be more accepted.. considering how atheists are less accepted than virtually any other segment of the population in usa, judging by non-internet polls, this really is a goal worth pursuing. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13973 Posts
On March 06 2011 00:16 ArcticVanguard wrote: Atheists don't have any reason to "convert" you that I can think of. If an atheist is trying to convert you, either he's a jerk, been hurt my someone religious, or you ticked him off somehow. Atheists gain nothing from turning you into a nonbeliever. We don't get a reward or anything like that. If you're finding the internet to be a place that's "one big insult," then maybe you're spending your time in the wrong places, 'cause one thing's for sure, it sure seemed like the same thing for me, but in reverse. That is, I'm an atheist and it seemed like "one big insult," as you put it. If you can't find a place tolerant of you, then go to a different place and stay there. Or don't bring up religion. (btw why do you have cs lewis as your quote if you want all religion people to go away?) I don't think your second paragraph made as much scene as you think but I would say that if chistians left everyplace that they weren't tolerated then pretty much a good majority of effective non profit charities wouldn't exist. Its the insistence of helping everyone regardless of weather they hate you or not is why I'm a Christian. I really hope that team liquid is the first website to have a religion thread that won't get locked for a flamefest. Edit: dammit liquid drone always a post ahead of me :p Edit2: I can hope drone I can hope. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28678 Posts
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scBane
Netherlands35 Posts
Religion is just a complete disrespect for life, and history shows it. Religion a big reason people kill each other. Problem is that most religious people don't listen to reason and just makes their own bible up. They don't care what all has happened because of one (or the 500.000 variations on it, who cares right?) book, as long as they go to heaven. In the end, faith doesn't need any logic or arguments, it's just what they believe in. So yea, you can keep bullshitting yourself by thinking the internet is against religion, it really is not. Most people don't give a shit about religion, you just make it seem like it is, because of who knows. In conclusion, just keep religion to yourself and leave other people alone, there is no point discussing this matter, just live and let live. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28678 Posts
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scBane
Netherlands35 Posts
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Sermokala
United States13973 Posts
On March 06 2011 00:51 scBane wrote: Let's say there is a god and it's proven. Why would you praise someone who has killed millions and millions of people and animals, just because someone did something wrong in the eyes of god. How can you even begin to say that that is ok? If you do something he doesn't like you can go fuck yourself in a fire, great. Religion is just a complete disrespect for life, and history shows it. Religion a big reason people kill each other. Problem is that most religious people don't listen to reason and just makes their own bible up. They don't care what all has happened because of one (or the 500.000 variations on it, who cares right?) book, as long as they go to heaven. In the end, faith doesn't need any logic or arguments, it's just what they believe in. So yea, you can keep bullshitting yourself by thinking the internet is against religion, it really is not. Most people don't give a shit about religion, you just make it seem like it is, because of who knows. In conclusion, just keep religion to yourself and leave other people alone, there is no point discussing this matter, just live and let live. 1st paragraph if god was proven there would be no need for religion 2nd paragraph red / cressent cross? 3rd legit point yet kinda attacks yourself at the end there 4th if people don't care about religion as you say there wouldn't be haters like yourself to hate on it I'm going to keep my personal feelings out of it and I hope that this helps twords adverting a flame war | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
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scBane
Netherlands35 Posts
On March 06 2011 01:52 sermokala wrote: 4th if people don't care about religion as you say there wouldn't be haters like yourself to hate on it Well in my experience, so I might be wrong here, it's usually a religious person opening a topic like this, rarely the other way around. They are starting the discussion, then an argument follows and then feel victimized by the internet apparently. So what I try to say is, I wouldn't start a discussion about it because I don't care enough, but if someone wants a reaction then I' ll answer. But don't turn it around and say that the internet is against religion, you just asked for a response and you got it. And please don't say that I hate religion, it has his up and downsides. I just think the downsides are greater than the up, so I don't like it. But don't say that I hate it, I never said that. I'm more confused about the thought process behind it. With all the technical advancements made, religion seems to fall behind. On March 06 2011 02:18 Cloud wrote: Religion's all about feeling special - you have a destiny, you're being watched over a supreme being, you're going to be rewarded for your actions after death. The atheist/scientific/"true" version is a lot grimmer - you're the result of accidental mutations, you're insignificant to the rest of the universe, death is the end of your existence. It's almost obvious which one is more easily accepted by the mind of a social being. This is why religion is so popular yes. People like easy things, religion got easy answers for very difficult if not impossible to answer questions. But at the same time it is very sad that people settle for this. There is a nice Einstein quote that fits with this and I' ll end my participation in this topic with that. If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
If people are good only because they fear punishment and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed. What is then the reason for being good? I hope I won't overflow pedantry when I point out that your sentence projects an odd semantic inflation. Hope means anticipation of a future good. Fear means anticipation of a future evil. Punishment and reward are merely the experiences felt as good or evil. Evil, however you define it cosmologically, means alternatively the opposite of good, the absence of good, the destruction of good. What you are really saying is: "If people are good only because we hope for good and fear the absence of good, then we are a sorry lot indeed." Quite the moral philosophy there. | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
On March 05 2011 16:04 Shai wrote: Perhaps it would surprise you to know that I excel in the sciences (apart from Biology because I hate memorizing and it seems to me that's all it is, both in high school and university, from personal experience). Though Gravity is indeed unprovable using a mathematical approach to the idea of a "proof" it is obviously more tangeable and as such the arguments surrounding it are somewhat non existent (apart from some guy I read who claims gravity works the opposite way we assume and that the combined forces of gravity from the universe are pushing us onto earth. But he's crazy). The Big Bang theory I take as the same sort of thing; when I said it was unprovable I meant it in the scientific sense. Please to not assume my ignorance. As for religion being ultimately fantastical ... that is not at all the point of this post. Please refrain from going down that path. My entire point was it is not religion that harms people, but people who harm people. The institute of Christianity is more broad than that; it is only certain denominations, preachers, and leaders who are, in fact, maniacal, egotistical, and power hungry. It is indeed unfortunate that there are Christians who cause a great deal of strife for a great deal of people, just as it is unfortunate that there are agnostics, atheists, etc who do the same for similar ideologies. Regardless of all of this, my point is this: I am not harming anyone through my practice of faith, and it has driven me to spend a great deal of my time volunteering at secular organizations. I am not asking for praise, and on the same level, I am not asking for animosity. I have spent a great amount of time mulling over American foreign affairs, and how much I dislike the militant parts of them, and yet at the same time I do not resent America or American people. In this same way, I wish that I didn't have to read generalizations about Christians and Christianity. I apologize for being condescending, but it is just from my experience that religious people hear the word "theory" and they go on about how it's not "real". I have just lost the patience to explain everything that I am talking about nicely. As many people have said previously before me, atheist are not going to shut up, you just have to learn to deal with it. Most of my friends are religious, and they know full well that I am a weak atheist. I just tend to avoid talking to them about religion as they just make up stories about random shit that God supposedly did but when I ask for proof they just make up some more crap. Maybe, you should just avoid talking about religion at all if you just want to be left alone. sC, it's not always necessarily religious people that open up threads like this. I actually find it more common for atheist to open up threads like this. Don't just make up assumptions. And I tend to stay away from this as it turns into flamefests with no discussional merits, but it seems so far most people are being civil here.  | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
On March 05 2011 17:39 Gak2 wrote: you can't say that all Christians believe all non-Christians are going to hell... like my belief for example, is that God shows mercy to all souls, Christian or not. If you don't believe that, then what about babies who die before they get a chance to be baptized? do they go to hell too? Blah blah I could argue this for hours but it would probably be tl;dr I guess my real point is, you can't make all these assumptions about religion based on what you hear or see... what people believe is ultimately up to them. Wait wait wait... so not all Christians believe 1) in Hell 2) that non-believers are going to Hell? Isn't that stuff in the Bible and whatnot? Are there actually branches of Christianity that believe this, or are these the "oh I'll just pick what I like from the religion and ignore all the rest" Christians? Cause if it's the latter, then that's what really bothers me. :\ I feel like the beliefs are established, established word of God, and unless you have a different interpretation of it, you can't just simply ignore it if you're truly Christian. I mean, if it's clearly written there in the Bible (it is right?), how can you just say, "Oh nope, there's no Hell. No, not even if the Bible states it. The Bible is wrong." And, as far as I was taught to learn in history class, when the authorities started feeling bad for babies who didn't have a chance to be baptized, they invented the idea that these babies go to Purgatory. Again, if I'm wrong, I'd be happy to be corrected. | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
On March 05 2011 23:08 Liquid`Drone wrote: ...I think you had a good point with your other post, but there are great differences regarding the belief in an afterlife even amongst christians. Some believe accepting jesus as the lord savior and son of god automatically qualifies you to eternal bliss in heaven, and that not doing so automatically damns you to hell, and that virtually nothing else (apart from suicide) is any factor whatsoever. some christians believe that what matters is whether or not you are a good person. some christians do not even believe in hell - they believe you will go to heaven if you are good, and that nothing really happens if you're not deserving. (perhaps their hell is nonexistance?) while I'm not specifically targeting you with my following pieces of opinion, but rather the typical angry internet atheist, there is absolutely a strong tendency towards generalizing christians into one group. I'm not saying that christians are less guilty of this, but I think it's a big problem in general that people are unable to realize that being overly antagonistic is normally less convincing than phrasing yourself more diplomatically. nobody likes admitting that they are an idiot no matter how compelling of an arguement they are presented with... Hmm so is it 'legal' for Christians to believe this? Because I really thought none of the established branches believe there is no Hell, or that all good people go to Heaven. Now I understand if these are people's personal beliefs, kinda like their own branch of Christianity. That's the only way it makes sense to me. Cause if established branches disagree with these points, I don't see how people can just "pick and choose" what they want to believe in. It just seems so wrong. I mean, where is that line between Christian and Non-Christian then? What exactly do you have to believe in to be Christian? Is it that Jesus is the son of God? If I said I follow Christian morals, I believe in the one God, but I denounce everything else about established Christianity, can I call myself a Christian? What I honestly believe is that Christians have changed their beliefs to better fit with the modern times, and to be more socially acceptable. The question then becomes: is it right for them to do so, because as time passes we gain more knowledge and can refine our beliefs, OR is it wrong for people to change the word of God, which has pretty clearly (in my opinion) been expressed and preached through the Bible for centuries? (Correct me if I have stated anything inaccurate.) On March 06 2011 01:12 Liquid`Drone wrote: man the idea that religion is the number 1 reason why people kill eachother is such a historical fallacy that it makes me seriously question the scientific mindset (as a scientific mindset implies willingness and desire to learn from experience and factual events) of the people making this statement.. yes, a lot of people have killed people for religious reasons. yes, a lot of wars have had some sort of religious motivation. (but very few have started due to religious reasons alone, it has rather been a sort of, additional reason or a way of motivating the population parttaking in wars.) Yet, some of the worst mass murderers mankind has ever encountered have been acting out of strictly nonreligious reasons.. Yeah. In European history, even many of these "religious wars" were just covers for political ambitions. | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
There are christians that I know that believe that the Bible is utter garbage that is just a children's story, and that there is no such thing as hell. | ||
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