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Editing OPs for More Information

Blogs > Karliath
Post a Reply
Karliath
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2214 Posts
March 02 2011 00:38 GMT
#1
Hey guys,

I might be the only person who has this concern, but I wanted to bring it up anyway. It's not so much of a problem with the website as it is something that just bothers me here on TL, so I decided not to post in "Website Feedback."

When threads for major movies, games, and other media are created, I feel that it is the OP's burden to provide as much information about the release as possible, especially with the "1 thread for each topic" rule. I also expect from them regular updates to the OP if important trailers/previews/interviews become available. However, this is not always the case.

It bothers me when someone makes a new thread about a release that gives a one liner OP, something like, "OMG This game is going to introduce guns?" and then everyone after that is forced to stay in that thread, for tens of pages. In my opinion, the first post should be a hub of information for people interested in the released.

Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is that it's probably unfair for someone who just wanted to share some (important) information to have to "pledge" that he will continue to keep track of every little thing that is revealed before the release. I agree with this view, and that's why I'm wondering if there could possibly be a solution to help this problem, some way for the community to edit (eek!) the OP?

Such a thought would obviously bring up a whole host of concerns, which I want to assure you I am not oblivious to. I'm just trying to think whether there's any possible solution.

PM-ing the OP is ostensibly a good idea. For example, when the new Skyrim trailer was released, I Pm-ed the OP of the thread and told him about it, along with a few other videos I thought he should include. He edited his post soon, and added some more information too. Brilliant, simple, and easy. However, there are still two possible problems.

First, it means that the person sending the PM has to do all the research and collection of data for the OP. Some would say that this is wrong, and others would say, "Hey, if you have a problem with the OP, then you should provide the change you want to see."

Second, the original poster may be inactive, even just for a few months. In such an instance, PMs would not work. Maybe it'd be acceptable for users to PM mods with information, to see if they find it acceptable to add to the OP? That may, however, provide too much work (and trash) for the mods to go through, and it may become hard to decide what should and what shouldn't be included, along with how long of an inactivity period should be granted.

The Guild Wars 2 and Shogun 2 threads are examples of what I would like to see.

The Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2 threads, however, I dislike. Not meaning to put anyone on the spot, but those threads should really be updated when trailers, interviews, and even a demo for DA2 has been released.

I didn't intend to make this post long at all, but it turned out how it turned out. What do you guys think? Am I just too critical?

Archas
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6531 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-02 01:09:47
March 02 2011 01:08 GMT
#2
I had this issue with the Touhou thread; it had been around since '09, and had pretty much no information in the OP, on top of not being updated since then. I elected for the "PM the OP" choice, but the thread creator was AWOL, which falls under the "inactive OP" problem you state. And it's funny that you discuss PM'ing moderators about updated OPs, because that's exactly what I did. However, I don't feel it's a big problem for the moderators, for a few reasons.

Firstly, not many people seem to be concerned with the matter, opting instead to just post their own one or two lines about "OMG THIS GAME IS GONNA ROCK/SUCK". Those who care enough about the topic to propose an update to the OP would clearly have some attachment to it, as well as an obligation to provide high-quality material for perusal. Therefore, potential OP revisions would include the requisite effort to pass inspection easily, since after all, your goal is to make the OP better. I can't think of many reasons why people would try to abuse this sort of system with terrible OPs, and if they do, they can just get warned or banned.

Secondly, if you care enough to propose a new OP, you would obviously know a good deal about the subject in question. The mod you PM wouldn't really need to know much about the topic in order to deem it worthy, since you're doing the heavy lifting with the information you know is true and correct. Because of this, your options wouldn't be restricted, since being forced to find a mod that is involved with the thread isn't necessary as long as your new OP idea is clean and well thought out. This reason sort of has to assume that the previous reason is true, but I don't foresee many issues in that regard.

And as for the inactivity period required in order to initiate this whole procedure, I think a suitable idea is to PM the thread creator and wait for a response. If the creator responds, then great, you can work out things with him immediately. If he doesn't respond for, say, a week (or is banned for, say, 2 weeks or more), then a moderator intervention would be appropriate.

That's just what I have to say on the matter. I sympathize with your frustration, since I also get annoyed with people who make lackluster OPs and/or don't update them. I'm not sure if there's an official protocol that can be put into place to remedy this, unfortunately, but what I just wrote above might suffice as a sort of informal means of doing so.
The room is ripe with the stench of bitches!
rupert
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
182 Posts
March 02 2011 01:12 GMT
#3
What about the option of "unlocking" your own post so they can be edited by certain people, would be useful in this situation (and probably other things we're not thinking about).
Spekulatius
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany2413 Posts
March 02 2011 01:54 GMT
#4
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 02 2011 09:38 Karliath wrote:
Hey guys,

I might be the only person who has this concern, but I wanted to bring it up anyway. It's not so much of a problem with the website as it is something that just bothers me here on TL, so I decided not to post in "Website Feedback."

When threads for major movies, games, and other media are created, I feel that it is the OP's burden to provide as much information about the release as possible, especially with the "1 thread for each topic" rule. I also expect from them regular updates to the OP if important trailers/previews/interviews become available. However, this is not always the case.

It bothers me when someone makes a new thread about a release that gives a one liner OP, something like, "OMG This game is going to introduce guns?" and then everyone after that is forced to stay in that thread, for tens of pages. In my opinion, the first post should be a hub of information for people interested in the released.

Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is that it's probably unfair for someone who just wanted to share some (important) information to have to "pledge" that he will continue to keep track of every little thing that is revealed before the release. I agree with this view, and that's why I'm wondering if there could possibly be a solution to help this problem, some way for the community to edit (eek!) the OP?

Such a thought would obviously bring up a whole host of concerns, which I want to assure you I am not oblivious to. I'm just trying to think whether there's any possible solution.

PM-ing the OP is ostensibly a good idea. For example, when the new Skyrim trailer was released, I Pm-ed the OP of the thread and told him about it, along with a few other videos I thought he should include. He edited his post soon, and added some more information too. Brilliant, simple, and easy. However, there are still two possible problems.

First, it means that the person sending the PM has to do all the research and collection of data for the OP. Some would say that this is wrong, and others would say, "Hey, if you have a problem with the OP, then you should provide the change you want to see."

Second, the original poster may be inactive, even just for a few months. In such an instance, PMs would not work. Maybe it'd be acceptable for users to PM mods with information, to see if they find it acceptable to add to the OP? That may, however, provide too much work (and trash) for the mods to go through, and it may become hard to decide what should and what shouldn't be included, along with how long of an inactivity period should be granted.

The Guild Wars 2 and Shogun 2 threads are examples of what I would like to see.

The Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2 threads, however, I dislike. Not meaning to put anyone on the spot, but those threads should really be updated when trailers, interviews, and even a demo for DA2 has been released.

I didn't intend to make this post long at all, but it turned out how it turned out. What do you guys think? Am I just too critical?



You're not alone with your view.

The thing is, with the staff limiting the thread count of a single topic to one, the OP obtains a monopole on the information that his thread provides. This should oblige him with some responsibility for keeping the OP informative and up-to-date, since others aren't allowed to do this at his place.

As you said, there are greatly maintained threads and such that are rarely edited and kept up to date. Once there even was a LR thread whose OP got banned and therefore one had to go through the 30 pages of the thread to find the results, the recommended games etc. Things like this should not prevent banning; I'm just saying that threads that get interest but have been deserted by the OP suck for all those who care about the topic.

Unfortunately, I think you listed all available options. I don't know what can be done about this. If PM'ing the OP doesn't work, only a staff member could edit the post, and they sure have better things to do.

It would be great if a mod could express his view on this problem.
Always smile~
Dalguno
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2446 Posts
March 02 2011 02:07 GMT
#5
I personally have a hard time conveying my thoughts through the OP, and I guess that's something that will come with more experience. You're completely correct about this. Sometimes they won't put in the time, or whatever. It makes it hard to understand if you're new to the subject or know nothing about what's being discussed. It should be a responsibility.
"I'm gonna keep making drones cause I'm a baller, and ballers make drones." -Snute
Enervate
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1769 Posts
March 02 2011 02:24 GMT
#6
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think it matters that much, because whenever I see a fairly old thread bumped, I don't bother rereading the OP and just go to the last few pages and see what's new.

Updated OP would be nice, but not really worth the effort of enforcing it or figuring out a work-around, in my opinion. I do think posts about a game or movie with only like one line should be closed before it gets too many replies and remade with more content, though.
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-02 02:57:51
March 02 2011 02:53 GMT
#7
On March 02 2011 11:24 Enervate wrote:
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think it matters that much, because whenever I see a fairly old thread bumped, I don't bother rereading the OP and just go to the last few pages and see what's new.

Updated OP would be nice, but not really worth the effort of enforcing it or figuring out a work-around, in my opinion. I do think posts about a game or movie with only like one line should be closed before it gets too many replies and remade with more content, though.

There are a few threads that have been going on for a while and could do with a makeover for their OP. I'd have to agree with Karlaith and Aeres about the courtesy of PM-ing the Thread Creator before asking a Mod. The only problem with the 2-week wait period though is that sometimes there's something really topical you may want to talk about and should be put into the OP but waiting 2-weeks for a PM reply would be a tad long.

Is there a Mod/Admin/Banling in charge of each sub-board on TL? Perhaps they could be like the "point-man" for these situations if the OP can't be contacted and you have something constructive to add. Like, the part you want to be added into the OP could be sent in a Quote/Spoiler tag to the Mod with a request of where to put it. That way the Mod could just copy-paste which would make life easier for them. For example, a sample PM could be:


Dear Mod X,
Could you please add the part in spoilers to the end of the OP in this thread? [link] Thanks!
+ Show Spoiler +
Information already laid out neatly read for copy-paste.



The fact the information has to be copy-paste ready would also mean that the quality of submissions for addition would be better since if it's not readable, it's probably not any good anyway and the Mod can just ignore the PM.

Thoughts?

Edit:
On March 02 2011 10:12 rupert wrote:
What about the option of "unlocking" your own post so they can be edited by certain people, would be useful in this situation (and probably other things we're not thinking about).


It's nice in theory. The main problem that comes to mind though is wiki-style vandalism. I don't think TL saves what a post used to look like so there'd be no way to revert back. Giving post editing to only certain people to get around this would basically be like giving mod-status to people.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
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