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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Vw6mS.png)
Hello my dear readers. How are you? That's good to hear. And your significant other, kids, pets? Oh, Fluffy died? I'm very sad to hear that. Oh, and how am I? Well, I'm glad you asked. You see, my friends, I am not well. In fact, I am downright furious. Almost furious enough to start writing on chalkboards. But, I digress. What I'd like to do is take a second from being the best and most accurate reporter and writer in the Starcraft 2 community and speak truthfully from the heart. This calm discussion needs to be read by EVERYONE. I'm making a new thread for this because as Starcraft's most trusted journalist, my opinion is more important than everyone else's so it deserves its own thread.
To start off, who the fuck do these NASL guys think they are? Creating such a huge tournament is certainly going to destroy E-Sports and possibly the whole world. Don't they realize the survival of the human race is on the line??? Don't even get me started on the pre-announcement showmatch. Absolutely horrid quality, especially since they explicitly said that's how the NASL broadcast will look and that they're not going to improve the quality.
Oh, and this casting live, but not broadcasted live shit. WTF is that? This is clearly going to ruin EVERYTHING. This will almost definitely be an issue when everyone is watching these “awesome” games. There's absolutely no way we'll forget about it and ignore the fact that it's not live after the season starts. We'll all be watching and saying “Why can't they be playing RIGHT NOW?!?! Knowing that they already played this game totally fucks up my experience” instead of discussing the games.
And where are the sponsors? They MUST have sponsors. I'm so confused! They can't possibly have money without sponsors. Who the fuck would invest in a tournament and not want people to know who they are. I know I would want everyone to know who I am and every single detail about me. This is totally different than how every other tournament is done, so this tournament will be stupid.
How can they possibly make a huge announcement and not tell ME every little detail about the tournament. I must know every single facet of the tournament RIGHT NOW. The tournament starts in less than 3 fortnights! 3!!! They should should have an answer for all of my questions immediately. I mean, what if player X doesn't say gg in 63% of his games and then switches teams, but isn't on a team for a period of 57 hours, while playing from Kenya for 3 of his games, and also has to undergo emergency toenail surgery, but has to call his Mom in Mississippi at the same time! WHAT THEN? HUH? WHY DONT YOU HAVE AN ANSWER FOR ME?!?!?!
And another thing. NASL claims to be all about professionalism, but then they hire iNcontroL, a guy who clearly doesn't give a shit about Starcraft or it's future and never ever takes things seriously. Why would they want such a popular and beloved player to promote their league? Also, iNcontroL is so damn unprofessional, and is destroying the league by continuing his popular antics. He should be completely serious all the time, because that will help promote the league more than being his usual entertaining self.
Next, I'd like to talk about this chick Kelly casting in MY GSL. Why would she even apply, she clearly knows absolutely nothing about the game and doesn't give a shit about Starcraft 2. And how dare she try to be funny and calling the Hellion a “race car”? This is a completely serious cast. Tasteless and Artosis never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever joke around. Also, there's no way she's going to get better, either. I mean, look at the observer. People thought he would get better, but even during yesterday's games, I was thinking to myself, “This guy is awful, there's like 2 units offscreen in this battle” and “why isn't he focusing on all 3 drops at once, that's so easy to do” and “why doesn't he have the exact tab open that I want?” The whole thing just makes me want to repeatedly make jokes about her accent and switch L's and R's in my text, because that never gets old.
Speaking of casters, this TotalBiscuit guy is such a fucking idiot. I used to think he was awesome, then he decides he's going to spend his time on different games proportionally to what his viewers want? WoW players aren't real people. They spend hours playing a game, and then discuss and analyze every aspect of it on the forums. That's nothing like Starcraft 2 players.
So fuck him, I want to hear him cast Starcraft 2, so he should listen to ME and just cast Starcraft 2. And you know what? I'm going to say he's quitting casting Starcraft 2 altogether, because that's clearly what he said. It's important that we go around bashing these casters. It doesn't matter if we take comments "out of context" or "totally misquote" them.
Ok. Glad I was able to get those arguments down in a clear and respectable way. Now I have to go make fifteen different posts on Reddit for all these complaints.
EDIT: fixed some grammar and spelling, I don't want to look like a complete idiot or anything.
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+ Show Spoiler [Note from the Editor] +Please don't turn this into a discussion about NASL, Kelly, or TB. I'm just making jokes about some complaints that I think are totally ridiculous. I think there are legitimate complaints about all three, but this isn't the place to discuss them. Just enjoy the article  Also, I love /r/starcraft, but just the 75% of it that isn't idiotic.
+ Show Spoiler [Infested Archon archive] +
 
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5stars, thanks again for the good read.
Someone's going to miss your signature, and lulz will ensue. Or sadness. Maybe just sadness.
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Austin10831 Posts
Not your best work, as some of your underlying points are a bit specious, but you can't hit home runs every time. Did you rush this one out a bit?
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You've summed up 95% of the weeks post into one, serious, well thought out and totally not sarcastic, serious post.
I like you. Genius.
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Good read and fair points all round. But the internet will be the internet, nothing you can do about it really.
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That's not funny. Yes, you tried, but no. Some of those concerns are real ones for some people. I'm not talking about that stuff with Kelly (people tend to be disgusting sometimes) but more important ones like the showmatch issues or the no-live in NASL, and it's normal, because we all want the best for the things we love. At least, if it was funny or intelligent, it would pass, but it's quite awful. You try to discredit legit arguments by extending them to the absurd, trying to laugh at our worries. Bad job.
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On February 25 2011 04:04 BroOd wrote:
Not your best work, as some of your underlying points are a bit specious, but you can't hit home runs every time. Did you rush this one out a bit?
I believe most of my points are pretty good, but obviously people have different opinions I left out a lot of things that certainly are reasonable arguments. Mostly I was just trying to show how stupid some of these reactions by the community have been lately. People need to not be so upset about everything and realize that 90% of the time, these "issues" won't actually be as big of a deal or people will get used to it and forget about it. Sort of like what HuK was saying in his ceremony.
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I was going to try and write something clever, then remembered how hard it is to type sarcasm, awesome job.
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you are my new favorite archon, even though you are infested.
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On February 25 2011 04:04 BroOd wrote:Did you rush this one out a bit?
Oh, and this was meant to look rushed like a rant that someone wrote in 2 minutes. So, I didn't spend quite as much time on it as I usually do.
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On February 25 2011 04:17 samaNo4 wrote:
You try to discredit legit arguments by extending them to the absurd, trying to laugh at our worries. Bad job.
You do realize that's the standard tactic of EVERY expert debater. Him doing so in a jokingly serious light adds an EXTRA layer of humor. Clearly you're the guy that sees stand up comedy and crosses his arms taking everything the comedian says as if they were serious. Lighten up. We live in too fucked up of a world to take things so seriously.
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I love it! Pretty much sums up what I have been reading these past weeks.
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On February 25 2011 04:43 forgotten0ne wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 04:17 samaNo4 wrote:
You try to discredit legit arguments by extending them to the absurd, trying to laugh at our worries. Bad job. You do realize that's the standard tactic of EVERY expert debater. Him doing so in a jokingly serious light adds an EXTRA layer of humor. Clearly you're the guy that sees stand up comedy and crosses his arms taking everything the comedian says as if they were serious. Lighten up. We live in too fucked up of a world to take things so seriously.
Wikipedia link
Not just debater though, pretty much anyone that deals with logic, from mathematics to philosophy.
The arguments aren't legit if they have absurd implications.
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Not the best edition of the IA, but major points for the underlying commentary. It needed to be said.
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A good summary of the ridiculous complaints that most had within the past week. Next, they'll be complaining that you're mocking THEIR opinions and yours don't matter at all. The nerves on these selfish idiots....
What I find most surprising was that Kelly actually got death threats. Really...? C'mon guys....
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Oh man..you definitely made my day! Good job
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On February 25 2011 04:04 BroOd wrote:
Not your best work, as some of your underlying points are a bit specious, but you can't hit home runs every time. Did you rush this one out a bit?
Agreed, this completely destroys the IA legacy. I won't be able to read the Idra article without thinking about the horrible forced jokes from this one.
+ Show Spoiler +
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I think the words on biscuit were uncalled for. The reason I say this is due to call outs that InControl and a few other notable figures in the scene did to him. He basically said you know what that's fine I'll just not deal with the stress and go back to where my fan base is despite enjoying covering Sc2 matches cause Sc2 just doesn't seem like the time effort. Biscuit from what I can tell wants the Sc2 coverage community and associates to stop being diva's and to be honest I'd have to agree with him.
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On February 25 2011 04:17 samaNo4 wrote:
That's not funny. Yes, you tried, but no. Some of those concerns are real ones for some people. I'm not talking about that stuff with Kelly (people tend to be disgusting sometimes) but more important ones like the showmatch issues or the no-live in NASL, and it's normal, because we all want the best for the things we love. At least, if it was funny or intelligent, it would pass, but it's quite awful. You try to discredit legit arguments by extending them to the absurd, trying to laugh at our worries. Bad job.
The showmatch had its issues, sure. But given that this is a 400k major event, don't you think there is a pretty damn good chance they will make certain to get things like quality issues and such somewhat sorted out.
As for the live cast thing I don't understand that at all. If they are broadcasting things a couple hours late to help with timezones or casting issues how does that make any difference. In this case its not even like everyone knows the results and is discussing them + spoiler potential and such. I just don't see any difference between watching the event live and watching a live cast of the replays. As long as the casters haven't previously seen the games and don't know the results.
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This is hilarious, well done, sir! You are a gentlemen and a scholar.
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should have cut it at the 5th paragraph, that one was extremely funny.
overall, your worst article yet, rather boring overstretched humor 
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Not a fan of this particular post. At least with regard to NASL and Kelly, your satire seems to fall somewhat flat, especially when you're so blatantly side-stepping the community's more legitimate / reasonable concerns. A bit of a straw man argument, if you ask me...
That said, because your logic / argumentation seemed forced, it just wasn't funny or subversive at all.
Anyway, maybe if your arguments were better grounded, it'd be more entertaining and/or funny. As for now, it comes off pretty forced. The above style of humor reminds me a lot of that conservative 'Daily Show' rip-off 1/2 Hour News Hour that crashed and burned so spectacularly.
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Very well done. I think you expressed very well how the people of TL and how outrageous this' weeks shenaningans have truly been.
+ Show Spoiler +Just bugs me I can't figure out how much of the responses in this thread are sarcastic, fucking Internet.
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You guys do know that IA is a satire, right?
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Wow, thats really how most of the starcraft gamers think. EVERY FUCKING THREATH.
Nice work, really enjoyed it.
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Spittin hot truth here
5/5
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Fuck everything! All I want to do is RAAAGE!
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I've loved most of the IA posts. This one, however, I'm not a huge fan of. Yeah, the underlying commentary, as others say, is spot on: this shit is getting ridiculous. However, I think you went too over-the-top. Basically, you had spittle flying all over the place rather than the normal, more subtle mockery that I, personally, thought was more effective.
Still, I like these! Keep it up! :D
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5/5, laughed out loud a couple times.
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United States4126 Posts
I thought this was going to be written from iNcontroL's perspective as all the topics of hatred would've lined up imo Good job nonetheless.
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On February 25 2011 05:26 DuckSausage wrote:Not a fan of this particular post. At least with regard to NASL and Kelly, your satire seems to fall somewhat flat, especially when you're so blatantly side-stepping the community's more legitimate / reasonable concerns. A bit of a straw man argument, if you ask me... That said, because your logic / argumentation seemed forced, it just wasn't funny or subversive at all. Anyway, maybe if your arguments were better grounded, it'd be more entertaining and/or funny. As for now, it comes off pretty forced. The above style of humor reminds me a lot of that conservative 'Daily Show' rip-off 1/2 Hour News Hour that crashed and burned so spectacularly.
The "community's" reaction to Kelly has been downright embarrassing. It reveals the sad extent of latent sexism we seem to have grown around here (or perhaps I'm just getting old and gamers were always this immature). In any event, Manifesto7's banning spree in the first live report thread of GSL5 was exactly what was needed. There has been at least a 20:1 ratio of bad/derogatory comments made about Kelly personally or her casting to any legitimate concern. In fact I've yet to read one. I'm just assuming someone intelligent is making some sort of non-abrasive point about her casting abilities.
It'd also be nice if people could stop over-quoting logical fallacies. Yes they exist, most people indulge in them inadvertently. But people love to shout strawman, ad hominem, absurdo ad reductio far too much. Often times it's debatable if they're even right. It's like a significant minority of TL at any given moment is doing introduction to philosophy. Frankly, you might feel clever using new terms and that's ok, but it frequently comes across as smug rather than intelligent.
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this was pretty epic lmao showing the hypocrisy
Edit: @ subversive above me, i agree it appears EXTREMELY smug and pretentious....dumb people trying to sound intelligent. you don't have to use big terms or fancy words to sound clever
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5/5 without a doubt thanks for summing it up nicely
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I think after reading this all that needs to be done is to slam your hand down on the "GG" Button. That sound is the sound of IA owning everyone, again. Keep it up.
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On February 25 2011 04:17 samaNo4 wrote:
That's not funny. Yes, you tried, but no. Some of those concerns are real ones for some people. I'm not talking about that stuff with Kelly (people tend to be disgusting sometimes) but more important ones like the showmatch issues or the no-live in NASL, and it's normal, because we all want the best for the things we love. At least, if it was funny or intelligent, it would pass, but it's quite awful. You try to discredit legit arguments by extending them to the absurd, trying to laugh at our worries. Bad job.
I don't know what the hell this guy is talking about because I laughed out loud to myself and had to pause my reading on several occasions. I was reading it in the voice of Stephen Colbert for almost all of it, actually.
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Thank you, someone needed to do this.
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On February 25 2011 05:57 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 05:26 DuckSausage wrote:Not a fan of this particular post. At least with regard to NASL and Kelly, your satire seems to fall somewhat flat, especially when you're so blatantly side-stepping the community's more legitimate / reasonable concerns. A bit of a straw man argument, if you ask me... That said, because your logic / argumentation seemed forced, it just wasn't funny or subversive at all. Anyway, maybe if your arguments were better grounded, it'd be more entertaining and/or funny. As for now, it comes off pretty forced. The above style of humor reminds me a lot of that conservative 'Daily Show' rip-off 1/2 Hour News Hour that crashed and burned so spectacularly. The "community's" reaction to Kelly has been downright embarrassing. It reveals the sad extent of latent sexism we seem to have grown around here (or perhaps I'm just getting old and gamers were always this immature). In any event, Manifesto7's banning spree in the first live report thread of GSL5 was exactly what was needed. There has been at least a 20:1 ratio of bad/derogatory comments made about Kelly personally or her casting to any legitimate concern. In fact I've yet to read one. I'm just assuming someone intelligent is making some sort of non-abrasive point about her casting abilities. It'd also be nice if people could stop over-quoting logical fallacies. Yes they exist, most people indulge in them inadvertently. But people love to shout strawman, ad hominem, absurdo ad reductio far too much. Often times it's debatable if they're even right. It's like a significant minority of TL at any given moment is doing introduction to philosophy. Frankly, you might feel clever using new terms and that's ok, but it frequently comes across as smug rather than intelligent.
It's like I'm transmitting my thoughts to Australia into your brain...
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On February 25 2011 04:43 forgotten0ne wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 04:17 samaNo4 wrote:
You try to discredit legit arguments by extending them to the absurd, trying to laugh at our worries. Bad job. You do realize that's the standard tactic of EVERY expert debater. Him doing so in a jokingly serious light adds an EXTRA layer of humor. Clearly you're the guy that sees stand up comedy and crosses his arms taking everything the comedian says as if they were serious. Lighten up. We live in too fucked up of a world to take things so seriously.
I do. The politicians in my country do it everytime they talk, and everytime they talk I want to go there and punch them in the face for not knowing how to defend their point of view without attacking the other part with gimmickies.
I like comedy, in fact I am a huge fan of the spanish Paramount Comedy as well as other programs with a, let's call it, acid sense of humor. But this is not funny. It feels to me like "I tried but I failed". And the feeling that it could have been done a lot of times better remains.
But, hey, I just realized this is a blog (I came here from TB's twitter) and I don't want to spoil it.
Those ones were your opinions, these ones are mine. Both are respectable, if you want to continue debating I think the best is to do it by PM.
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Pleased to see that IA takes up the gauntlet. Keep up the good work.
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On February 25 2011 03:59 Hoju wrote:Hello my dear readers. How are you? That's good to hear. And your significant other, kids, pets? Oh, Fluffy died? I'm very sad to hear that. Oh, and how am I? Well, I'm glad you asked. You see, my friends, I am not well. In fact, I am downright furious. Almost furious enough to start writing on chalkboards. But, I digress. What I'd like to do is take a second from being the best and most accurate reporter and writer in the Starcraft 2 community and speak truthfully from the heart. This calm discussion needs to be read by EVERYONE. I'm making a new thread for this because as Starcraft's most trusted journalist, my opinion is more important than everyone else's so it deserves its own thread. To start off, who the fuck do these NASL guys think they are? Creating such a huge tournament is certainly going to destroy E-Sports and possibly the whole world. Don't they realize the survival of the human race is on the line??? Don't even get me started on the pre-announcement showmatch. Absolutely horrid quality, especially since they explicitly said that's how the NASL broadcast will look and that they're not going to improve the quality. Oh, and this casting live, but not broadcasted live shit. WTF is that? This is clearly going to ruin EVERYTHING. This will almost definitely be an issue when everyone is watching these “awesome” games. There's absolutely no way we'll forget about it and ignore the fact that it's not live after the season starts. We'll all be watching and saying “Why can't they be playing RIGHT NOW?!?! Knowing that they already played this game totally fucks up my experience” instead of discussing the games. And where are the sponsors? They MUST have sponsors. I'm so confused! They can't possibly have money without sponsors. Who the fuck would invest in a tournament and not want people to know who they are. I know I would want everyone to know who I am and every single detail about me. This is totally different than how every other tournament is done, so this tournament will be stupid. How can they possibly make a huge announcement and not tell ME every little detail about the tournament. I must know every single facet of the tournament RIGHT NOW. The tournament starts in less than 3 fortnights! 3!!! They should should have an answer for all of my questions immediately. I mean, what if player X doesn't say gg in 63% of his games and then switches teams, but isn't on a team for a period of 57 hours, while playing from Kenya for 3 of his games, and also has to undergo emergency toenail surgery, but has to call his Mom in Mississippi at the same time! WHAT THEN? HUH? WHY DONT YOU HAVE AN ANSWER FOR ME?!?!?! And another thing. NASL claims to be all about professionalism, but then they hire iNcontroL, a guy who clearly doesn't give a shit about Starcraft or it's future and never ever takes things seriously. Why would they want such a popular and beloved player to promote their league? Also, iNcontroL is so damn unprofessional, and is destroying the league by continuing his popular antics. He should be completely serious all the time, because that will help promote the league more than being his usual entertaining self. Next, I'd like to talk about this chick Kelly casting in MY GSL. Why would she even apply, she clearly knows absolutely nothing about the game and doesn't give a shit about Starcraft 2. And how dare she try to be funny and calling the Hellion a “race car”? This is a completely serious cast. Tasteless and Artosis never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever joke around. Also, there's no way she's going to get better, either. I mean, look at the observer. People thought he would get better, but even during yesterday's games, I was thinking to myself, “This guy is awful, there's like 2 units offscreen in this battle” and “why isn't he focusing on all 3 drops at once, that's so easy to do” and “why doesn't he have the exact tab open that I want?” The whole thing just makes me want to repeatedly make jokes about her accent and switch L's and R's in my text, because that never gets old. Speaking of casters, this TotalBiscuit guy is such a fucking idiot. I used to think he was awesome, then he decides he's going to spend his time on different games proportionally to what his viewers want? WoW players aren't real people. They spend hours playing a game, and then discuss and analyze every aspect of it on the forums. That's nothing like Starcraft 2 players. So fuck him, I want to hear him cast Starcraft 2, so he should listen to ME and just cast Starcraft 2. And you know what? I'm going to say he's quitting casting Starcraft 2 altogether, because that's clearly what he said. It's important that we go around bashing these casters. It doesn't matter if we take comments "out of context" or "totally misquote" them. Ok. Glad I was able to get those arguments down in a clear and respectable way. Now I have to go make fifteen different posts on Reddit for all these complaints. EDIT: fixed some grammar and spelling, I don't want to look like a complete idiot or anything.
Follow The Infested Archon on twitter for updates and maybe the occasional joke: www.twitter.com/InfestedArchon RSS Feed+ Show Spoiler [Note from the Editor] +Please don't turn this into a discussion about NASL, Kelly, or TB. I'm just making jokes about some complaints that I think are totally ridiculous. I think there are legitimate complaints about all three, but this isn't the place to discuss them. Just enjoy the article Also, I love /r/starcraft, but just the 75% of it that isn't idiotic.
hmm. I have to say, I agree with everything.
User was warned for this post
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Great post. I really enjoyed the appropriately conflicting links to youtube videos and twitter posts as part of your sentences. I'll be really interested in seeing how the NASL production plays out and it's good that people have suggestions for concerns but everyone needs to take it down a notch.
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Haha, great post, that had me rolling.
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As always, great post. This should be on front page
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This is your best one yet.
Just because I swear to god, if I hear someone bitching about kelly any more I will somehow find a way to slap them.
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On February 25 2011 07:55 jazzbassmatt wrote:hmm. I have to say, I agree with everything.
Did you really have to quote the entire op?
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I think this is cool. Different tone from the other IA stuff obviously, more actually making an actual point, but that's cool.
Good job.
EDIT:
It'd also be nice if people could stop over-quoting logical fallacies. Yes they exist, most people indulge in them inadvertently. But people love to shout strawman, ad hominem, absurdo ad reductio far too much. Often times it's debatable if they're even right. It's like a significant minority of TL at any given moment is doing introduction to philosophy. Frankly, you might feel clever using new terms and that's ok, but it frequently comes across as smug rather than intelligent.
Point taken. On the other hand, TL is so full of without further adieus, I could care lesses, and similar eggcorns, I'm prepared to let a mildly inaccurate latin phrase by every now and again. Illuc sine gratia Dei eam! (See, now that's pompous.)
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Great read as always, small typo though in the NASL section
"They should should have an answer for all of my questions immediately."
should should
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United States319 Posts
I was looking for someone who could summarize the past couple weeks of drama and silliness for me. Thank you for this, excellent post. :-)
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On February 25 2011 06:47 AmaZing wrote:
Thank you, someone needed to do this.
QFT
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On February 25 2011 07:20 samaNo4 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 04:43 forgotten0ne wrote:On February 25 2011 04:17 samaNo4 wrote:
You try to discredit legit arguments by extending them to the absurd, trying to laugh at our worries. Bad job. You do realize that's the standard tactic of EVERY expert debater. Him doing so in a jokingly serious light adds an EXTRA layer of humor. Clearly you're the guy that sees stand up comedy and crosses his arms taking everything the comedian says as if they were serious. Lighten up. We live in too fucked up of a world to take things so seriously. I do. The politicians in my country do it everytime they talk, and everytime they talk I want to go there and punch them in the face for not knowing how to defend their point of view without attacking the other part with gimmickies.
It really depends on the situation.
With things like politics or in general any debate that happens individual to individual , for example, I agree it's probably best to defend their point of view without attacking the other person or using gimmicks, etc.
However in this case, it's the internet and the opponents or examples of IA (in his post) are those who being "unreasonable". Now when he makes the post with Kelly for example, he states who he clearly is targeting. He's targeting those who are hating on Kelly's commentary (not her voice or accent). He compares with the observer (he was hated at first but improved), same thing can happen with Kelly.
Also I'd like to add that people should give Kelly a chance to "grow on" them. Sometimes a person may seem unlikable at first but who knows, you may feel different about them after a while if you give them a chance.
Anyway what I mean is that the internet is different than one on one debates or arguments (like political debates between two individuals) because in the internet people like to complain or hate things without really taking into consideration whether or not it's reasonable.
It'd also be nice if people could stop over-quoting logical fallacies. Yes they exist, most people indulge in them inadvertently. But people love to shout strawman, ad hominem, absurdo ad reductio far too much.
I agree. IA's post may be "strawman" <b>to some</b> but the matter of the fact there are quite a bit (not all) of people that the post works on. Also take note a <u>huge difference</u> is that <i>IA's post clearly show who's he's targeting</i>.
In this case, the "strawman" argument is a bit different since he's only targeting those he is paraphrasing in his post. It's the internet, there have been plenty of posts like that those "paraphrases" in IA's post; IA's post isn't really strawman if you take that into consideration.
IA's Kelly hate compared to the observer hate is a good comparison in the post.
I've read the posts and some may "not like" ("not hate" but "not like" either) Kelly because they haven't gotten used to her accent and have trouble understanding her. That's reasonable enough.
However I've seen people not complaining (or at least not solely complaining) about her voice but saying that she just isn't good at commentary.
The problem with that is she can improve in commentary just as the new observer improved in observing.
IA's post and arguments work here, towards those people who aren't giving Kelly a chance with her commentary. I do not think it's "strawman" at all because people genuinely seem hate on her without giving her a chance (the evidence - if people weren't unreasonable, they wouldn't be so outright so "mean" towards her in the posts I've seen lately [like the "fake" fanclub topic for example]).
IA's post wouldn't work on those who simply do not like Kelly because they may have trouble listening to her.
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On February 25 2011 05:57 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 05:26 DuckSausage wrote:Not a fan of this particular post. At least with regard to NASL and Kelly, your satire seems to fall somewhat flat, especially when you're so blatantly side-stepping the community's more legitimate / reasonable concerns. A bit of a straw man argument, if you ask me... That said, because your logic / argumentation seemed forced, it just wasn't funny or subversive at all. Anyway, maybe if your arguments were better grounded, it'd be more entertaining and/or funny. As for now, it comes off pretty forced. The above style of humor reminds me a lot of that conservative 'Daily Show' rip-off 1/2 Hour News Hour that crashed and burned so spectacularly. The "community's" reaction to Kelly has been downright embarrassing. It reveals the sad extent of latent sexism we seem to have grown around here (or perhaps I'm just getting old and gamers were always this immature). In any event, Manifesto7's banning spree in the first live report thread of GSL5 was exactly what was needed. There has been at least a 20:1 ratio of bad/derogatory comments made about Kelly personally or her casting to any legitimate concern. In fact I've yet to read one. I'm just assuming someone intelligent is making some sort of non-abrasive point about her casting abilities.
Well, since you've never seen it, here's the summarized version of the legit argument against Kelly:
1. She's casting for an English audience, and her thick, non-standard accent and frequent grammar errors make it difficult to understand what she's saying.
2. Her in-game analysis seems very, very subpar.
3. She did not compliment Tasteless well, and on top of that, didn't bring anything to the table as far as entertainment or insight.
4. In response to the 'give her more time / you can't judge only one, two, three, x performance' arguments: the GSL is SC2's most professional league, and she's being paid to do this. Ironing out such basic flaws in casting ability should NOT be one of the GSL's priorities. The league's professionalism, in turn, gets taken down a couple notches.
If someone new to SC2 comes and watches her casts and has the same troubles understanding her or her analysis, do you think they would give her the same amount of leeway that you do?
The fact is, the GSL casting selection should be based on the quality of casting. Given these and past casting, how could GomTV have made such a bad selection? Is it because she's female, and GomTV wanted to use this fact to appeal to certain demographics; did they want to emulate the Korean casters (who also have a female caster); was there no one else who applied for the position; etc...
I readily admit there were a lot of sexist comments about her on TL in the aftermath of her casts. BUT, the above concerns are in no way, shape, or form sexist. At all. The sad thing is to watch how so many good-intentioned people on this forum dismiss these concerns as sexist, nit-picky, whiny, whatever. Too much blind white-knighting, if you ask me.
It'd also be nice if people could stop over-quoting logical fallacies. Yes they exist, most people indulge in them inadvertently. But people love to shout strawman, ad hominem, absurdo ad reductio far too much. Often times it's debatable if they're even right. It's like a significant minority of TL at any given moment is doing introduction to philosophy. Frankly, you might feel clever using new terms and that's ok, but it frequently comes across as smug rather than intelligent.
I call it like I see it.
Not concerned whether you or others think I'm smug, stupid, or a shit-head. Only concerned with whether or not the arguments make sense.
Anyway, I think it's ironic that you call me out for being smug when, in the same paragraph, you're the one being really, really smug / condescending. "Introduction to philosophy", "Feeling clever using new terms"? Please, grow up a little.
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Specifically concerning the OP, definitely not even on the same level as the others. It feels like Hoju is just using Infested Archon as a way to broadcast his opinion instead of trying to be humorous and parodic. To be entirely honest I would delete it, it "jumps the shark" if you will, and really doesn't do IA justice.
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Okayy. No joke. This is the best IA ever. I know I say this every IA, but this one really put you're points across so succinctly that I just went WOW, This guys good!(After i Lololol'ed ofc!)
GG.
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What the hell did everyone else read? Because I read a hilarious article about how idiotic everyone is acting over what amounts the greatest thing to happen to Esports in NA, a great player and caster, a new and unrefined GOM caster, and a caster no one serious about the guy really cares about anyways. It seemed to me he encapsulated the fervor of a bunch of gamers, most of which will never contribute significantly to the community beyond a few non-banned TL posts, that has recently been used to try to turn great things into bad things or make issues out of non-issues.
OH, and just while we are on it. Listen to a TB cast sometime. Just because his accent is funnier doesn't mean he's much of a better caster than Kelly. I counted just as many wrong things in the last cast of his I watched as in hers.
Cheers!
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Being really sarcastic doesn't make you funny
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On February 25 2011 06:26 rkffhk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 04:17 samaNo4 wrote:
That's not funny. Yes, you tried, but no. Some of those concerns are real ones for some people. I'm not talking about that stuff with Kelly (people tend to be disgusting sometimes) but more important ones like the showmatch issues or the no-live in NASL, and it's normal, because we all want the best for the things we love. At least, if it was funny or intelligent, it would pass, but it's quite awful. You try to discredit legit arguments by extending them to the absurd, trying to laugh at our worries. Bad job. I don't know what the hell this guy is talking about because I laughed out loud to myself and had to pause my reading on several occasions. I was reading it in the voice of Stephen Colbert for almost all of it, actually.
reading it in colbert mannerisms doesnt change the fact that it's lazy sarcasm, which isn't really too funny. some of the others have been ok, but this falls very much in the miss category
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i liked reading that IA :-)
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I liked you other stuff alot better tbh. Thanks anyway tho :>
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Dammit, IA! You guys were all funny and stuff when you were poking fun at all those Starcraft e-celebrities that I like to laugh at too! That stuff rocked! Now that you're poking fun of the stuff that me and ALL MY FRIENDS have been saying this week, you've jumped the shark! You suck. You're not funny anymore. I'm going to IRC to make Chinglish jokes and kitchen jokes about Kelly now, because THAT'S real comedy.
(Keep up the good work!)
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On February 25 2011 19:26 Zerokaiser wrote:
Specifically concerning the OP, definitely not even on the same level as the others. It feels like Hoju is just using Infested Archon as a way to broadcast his opinion instead of trying to be humorous and parodic. To be entirely honest I would delete it, it "jumps the shark" if you will, and really doesn't do IA justice.
How dare you question my impartiality! Did you not read the logo?
"Starcraft's Finest News Source"
I rest my case.
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Regardless of the forcedness of the humor, I found this humorous. Though not quite as humorous as the people getting their feathers ruffled about it.
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On February 26 2011 02:17 Hoju wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 19:26 Zerokaiser wrote:
Specifically concerning the OP, definitely not even on the same level as the others. It feels like Hoju is just using Infested Archon as a way to broadcast his opinion instead of trying to be humorous and parodic. To be entirely honest I would delete it, it "jumps the shark" if you will, and really doesn't do IA justice.
How dare you question my impartiality! Did you not read the logo? "Starcraft's Finest News Source" I rest my case.
Being more sarcastic isn't a redeeming factor. This IA is just sarcastic ranting whereas the other ones are clever and parodic. You're moving away from The Onion and approaching Glenn Beck.
"EDIT: fixed some grammar and spelling, I don't want to look like a complete idiot or anything." was the only IA-esque line, and it was funny.
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Infested Archon has done much much better.
Thx for this anyway.
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5/5 for using the word 'fortnight'
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The fact is, the GSL casting selection should be based on the quality of casting. Given these and past casting, how could GomTV have made such a bad selection? Is it because she's female, and GomTV wanted to use this fact to appeal to certain demographics; did they want to emulate the Korean casters (who also have a female caster); was there no one else who applied for the position; etc...
I'll reply to this first - One thing is that is important is that she was available to go to South Korea ASAP (Visa for work, being able to go to South Korea in time for the next GSL), etc.
You can't expect someone like <insert commentary of preference here> to cast if they can't go to South Korea + visa for work in time for the next GSL.
They announced that they choose Kelly due to the time restraints and that they're technically still looking for other potential applicants.
On February 25 2011 15:12 DuckSausage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 05:57 Subversive wrote:On February 25 2011 05:26 DuckSausage wrote:Not a fan of this particular post. At least with regard to NASL and Kelly, your satire seems to fall somewhat flat, especially when you're so blatantly side-stepping the community's more legitimate / reasonable concerns. A bit of a straw man argument, if you ask me... That said, because your logic / argumentation seemed forced, it just wasn't funny or subversive at all. Anyway, maybe if your arguments were better grounded, it'd be more entertaining and/or funny. As for now, it comes off pretty forced. The above style of humor reminds me a lot of that conservative 'Daily Show' rip-off 1/2 Hour News Hour that crashed and burned so spectacularly. The "community's" reaction to Kelly has been downright embarrassing. It reveals the sad extent of latent sexism we seem to have grown around here (or perhaps I'm just getting old and gamers were always this immature). In any event, Manifesto7's banning spree in the first live report thread of GSL5 was exactly what was needed. There has been at least a 20:1 ratio of bad/derogatory comments made about Kelly personally or her casting to any legitimate concern. In fact I've yet to read one. I'm just assuming someone intelligent is making some sort of non-abrasive point about her casting abilities. Well, since you've never seen it, here's the summarized version of the legit argument against Kelly: 1. She's casting for an English audience, and her thick, non-standard accent and frequent grammar errors make it difficult to understand what she's saying. 2. Her in-game analysis seems very, very subpar. 3. She did not compliment Tasteless well, and on top of that, didn't bring anything to the table as far as entertainment or insight. 4. In response to the 'give her more time / you can't judge only one, two, three, x performance' arguments: the GSL is SC2's most professional league, and she's being paid to do this. Ironing out such basic flaws in casting ability should NOT be one of the GSL's priorities. The league's professionalism, in turn, gets taken down a couple notches. If someone new to SC2 comes and watches her casts and has the same troubles understanding her or her analysis, do you think they would give her the same amount of leeway that you do? The fact is, the GSL casting selection should be based on the quality of casting. Given these and past casting, how could GomTV have made such a bad selection? Is it because she's female, and GomTV wanted to use this fact to appeal to certain demographics; did they want to emulate the Korean casters (who also have a female caster); was there no one else who applied for the position; etc... I readily admit there were a lot of sexist comments about her on TL in the aftermath of her casts. BUT, the above concerns are in no way, shape, or form sexist. At all. The sad thing is to watch how so many good-intentioned people on this forum dismiss these concerns as sexist, nit-picky, whiny, whatever. Too much blind white-knighting, if you ask me.
My reply:
1. That's understandable and I'll agree with you on that.
2. While Artosis usually does provide a bit more detailed analysis, she is not bad IMO and I'd say her analysis is adequate. Also remember she can improve just like how the new observer improved.
Also she does have some slips of errors but it may because of she is still new and may kind of be nervous. She may try to be commentating as much as possible (when it's her turn) and may not notice things as well or slip errors sometime.
For example in the Code A Ro3 match (second game of Junwi vs Alicia) she talks about why Alicia isn't taking a second gas (people note he doesn't even have a cybernetics core up) - I think it's probably more of the fact she didn't notice (too nervous or trying too hard to say at least anything) rather than due to ignorance.
Now if you're talking about entertainment in the commentary, yes some may not find her funny or entertaining as others but her SC2 analysis is fine. As for her attempts at jokes,they're almost exactly the same as how Artosis does his jokes (though they may not fit with her as well).
3. See above.
the GSL is SC2's most professional league, and she's being paid to do this. Ironing out such basic flaws in casting ability should NOT be one of the GSL's priorities. The league's professionalism, in turn, gets taken down a couple notches.
4. See my first point of this post (that is - Kelly was chosen because she was available to go to South Korea in time for the next GSL and that she had a visa).
Also as for the league's professionalism - Starcraft 2 and the GSL is still in its infancy (I'm not talking about game development [alpha + beta for example] but just the pro scene, GSL, and the state of the game such as balance)
There is a lot of time for growth and development. That includes the game itself of course (with the new maps in GSL + the new two expansions on the way) but it also includes the casters/staff for the GSL.
While some new viewers (and current) of the GSL may be put off by Kelly , GOMTV has plenty of time to build an audience and time to experiment with things. If they don't do something right, they have time to fix it since it's still early.
Overall - for those who do not like Kelly (regardless of the reason), remember that:
1. Artosis + Tasteless were the ones that wanted this (new caster for Code A)
2. Kelly was chosen because she was immediately available and had a working visa.
3. They are still looking for a caster.
4. Kelly can improve.
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Good concept, but you beat the dead horse a bit
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On February 26 2011 00:12 infinity2k9 wrote:
Being really sarcastic doesn't make you funny
You know what they say about sarcasm...
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About the NASL thing, if you watch State of the Game 28, incontrol has a lot of arguments that you might want to listen to...
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On February 25 2011 04:18 how wrote:
I was going to try and write something clever, then remembered how hard it is to type sarcasm, awesome job.
Ever heard of satire?
This wasn't Hoju's best work as satire (a bit out of character and too obvious sometime), but it was still hilarious. xD Keep 'em coming.
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Big miss for me. Sarcasm doesn't hold up after two paragraphs.
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On February 25 2011 15:12 DuckSausage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 05:57 Subversive wrote:On February 25 2011 05:26 DuckSausage wrote:Not a fan of this particular post. At least with regard to NASL and Kelly, your satire seems to fall somewhat flat, especially when you're so blatantly side-stepping the community's more legitimate / reasonable concerns. A bit of a straw man argument, if you ask me... That said, because your logic / argumentation seemed forced, it just wasn't funny or subversive at all. Anyway, maybe if your arguments were better grounded, it'd be more entertaining and/or funny. As for now, it comes off pretty forced. The above style of humor reminds me a lot of that conservative 'Daily Show' rip-off 1/2 Hour News Hour that crashed and burned so spectacularly. The "community's" reaction to Kelly has been downright embarrassing. It reveals the sad extent of latent sexism we seem to have grown around here (or perhaps I'm just getting old and gamers were always this immature). In any event, Manifesto7's banning spree in the first live report thread of GSL5 was exactly what was needed. There has been at least a 20:1 ratio of bad/derogatory comments made about Kelly personally or her casting to any legitimate concern. In fact I've yet to read one. I'm just assuming someone intelligent is making some sort of non-abrasive point about her casting abilities. Well, since you've never seen it, here's the summarized version of the legit argument against Kelly: 1. She's casting for an English audience, and her thick, non-standard accent and frequent grammar errors make it difficult to understand what she's saying. 2. Her in-game analysis seems very, very subpar. 3. She did not compliment Tasteless well, and on top of that, didn't bring anything to the table as far as entertainment or insight. 4. In response to the 'give her more time / you can't judge only one, two, three, x performance' arguments: the GSL is SC2's most professional league, and she's being paid to do this. Ironing out such basic flaws in casting ability should NOT be one of the GSL's priorities. The league's professionalism, in turn, gets taken down a couple notches. If someone new to SC2 comes and watches her casts and has the same troubles understanding her or her analysis, do you think they would give her the same amount of leeway that you do? The fact is, the GSL casting selection should be based on the quality of casting. Given these and past casting, how could GomTV have made such a bad selection? Is it because she's female, and GomTV wanted to use this fact to appeal to certain demographics; did they want to emulate the Korean casters (who also have a female caster); was there no one else who applied for the position; etc... I readily admit there were a lot of sexist comments about her on TL in the aftermath of her casts. BUT, the above concerns are in no way, shape, or form sexist. At all. The sad thing is to watch how so many good-intentioned people on this forum dismiss these concerns as sexist, nit-picky, whiny, whatever. Too much blind white-knighting, if you ask me. Show nested quote +
It'd also be nice if people could stop over-quoting logical fallacies. Yes they exist, most people indulge in them inadvertently. But people love to shout strawman, ad hominem, absurdo ad reductio far too much. Often times it's debatable if they're even right. It's like a significant minority of TL at any given moment is doing introduction to philosophy. Frankly, you might feel clever using new terms and that's ok, but it frequently comes across as smug rather than intelligent.
I call it like I see it. Not concerned whether you or others think I'm smug, stupid, or a shit-head. Only concerned with whether or not the arguments make sense. Anyway, I think it's ironic that you call me out for being smug when, in the same paragraph, you're the one being really, really smug / condescending. "Introduction to philosophy", "Feeling clever using new terms"? Please, grow up a little.
Ok, first off let me apologise to you DuckSausage. I've been wanting to make my point about logical fallacies for a while now, and yours was simply the time I chose to do it. I didn't mean that to be an attack on you personally, although I certainly don't blame you for seeing it that way, as it would be difficult for any reasonable person to do otherwise. I should have probably added an addendum to my post stating that I wasn't referring to people like yourself in their use of logical fallacies but rather the amount that they are used as a whole on tl (and often incorrectly). So sorry I didn't do that.
As for your other points, I don't really agree, but that's fine because there's room for all of us to have differing opinions. I'm allowed to love Artosis and Tasteless, others are allowed to dislike them. I guess my point is, that there seems to be an inordinate amount of hate directed at her (Kelly) and vitriol. That's all I was saying. But this doesn't need to be a debate about her qualities, as I'm sure Hoju would rather his thread didn't become. Suffice to say, I understand your concerns, thanks for taking the time to articulate them to me.
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On February 26 2011 09:18 Gold Fish wrote:Show nested quote +The fact is, the GSL casting selection should be based on the quality of casting. Given these and past casting, how could GomTV have made such a bad selection? Is it because she's female, and GomTV wanted to use this fact to appeal to certain demographics; did they want to emulate the Korean casters (who also have a female caster); was there no one else who applied for the position; etc...
I'll reply to this first - One thing is that is important is that she was available to go to South Korea ASAP (Visa for work, being able to go to South Korea in time for the next GSL), etc.
You can't expect someone like <insert commentary of preference here> to cast if they can't go to South Korea + visa for work in time for the next GSL.They announced that they choose Kelly due to the time restraints and that they're technically still looking for other potential applicants. Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 15:12 DuckSausage wrote:On February 25 2011 05:57 Subversive wrote:On February 25 2011 05:26 DuckSausage wrote:Not a fan of this particular post. At least with regard to NASL and Kelly, your satire seems to fall somewhat flat, especially when you're so blatantly side-stepping the community's more legitimate / reasonable concerns. A bit of a straw man argument, if you ask me... That said, because your logic / argumentation seemed forced, it just wasn't funny or subversive at all. Anyway, maybe if your arguments were better grounded, it'd be more entertaining and/or funny. As for now, it comes off pretty forced. The above style of humor reminds me a lot of that conservative 'Daily Show' rip-off 1/2 Hour News Hour that crashed and burned so spectacularly. The "community's" reaction to Kelly has been downright embarrassing. It reveals the sad extent of latent sexism we seem to have grown around here (or perhaps I'm just getting old and gamers were always this immature). In any event, Manifesto7's banning spree in the first live report thread of GSL5 was exactly what was needed. There has been at least a 20:1 ratio of bad/derogatory comments made about Kelly personally or her casting to any legitimate concern. In fact I've yet to read one. I'm just assuming someone intelligent is making some sort of non-abrasive point about her casting abilities. Well, since you've never seen it, here's the summarized version of the legit argument against Kelly: 1. She's casting for an English audience, and her thick, non-standard accent and frequent grammar errors make it difficult to understand what she's saying. 2. Her in-game analysis seems very, very subpar. 3. She did not compliment Tasteless well, and on top of that, didn't bring anything to the table as far as entertainment or insight. 4. In response to the 'give her more time / you can't judge only one, two, three, x performance' arguments: the GSL is SC2's most professional league, and she's being paid to do this. Ironing out such basic flaws in casting ability should NOT be one of the GSL's priorities. The league's professionalism, in turn, gets taken down a couple notches. If someone new to SC2 comes and watches her casts and has the same troubles understanding her or her analysis, do you think they would give her the same amount of leeway that you do? The fact is, the GSL casting selection should be based on the quality of casting. Given these and past casting, how could GomTV have made such a bad selection? Is it because she's female, and GomTV wanted to use this fact to appeal to certain demographics; did they want to emulate the Korean casters (who also have a female caster); was there no one else who applied for the position; etc... I readily admit there were a lot of sexist comments about her on TL in the aftermath of her casts. BUT, the above concerns are in no way, shape, or form sexist. At all. The sad thing is to watch how so many good-intentioned people on this forum dismiss these concerns as sexist, nit-picky, whiny, whatever. Too much blind white-knighting, if you ask me. My reply: 1. That's understandable and I'll agree with you on that. 2. While Artosis usually does provide a bit more detailed analysis, she is not bad IMO and I'd say her analysis is adequate. Also remember she can improve just like how the new observer improved. Also she does have some slips of errors but it may because of she is still new and may kind of be nervous. She may try to be commentating as much as possible (when it's her turn) and may not notice things as well or slip errors sometime. For example in the Code A Ro3 match (second game of Junwi vs Alicia) she talks about why Alicia isn't taking a second gas (people note he doesn't even have a cybernetics core up) - I think it's probably more of the fact she didn't notice (too nervous or trying too hard to say at least anything) rather than due to ignorance. Now if you're talking about entertainment in the commentary, yes some may not find her funny or entertaining as others but her SC2 analysis is fine. As for her attempts at jokes,they're almost exactly the same as how Artosis does his jokes (though they may not fit with her as well). 3. See above. Show nested quote + the GSL is SC2's most professional league, and she's being paid to do this. Ironing out such basic flaws in casting ability should NOT be one of the GSL's priorities. The league's professionalism, in turn, gets taken down a couple notches. 4. See my first point of this post (that is - Kelly was chosen because she was available to go to South Korea in time for the next GSL and that she had a visa). Also as for the league's professionalism - Starcraft 2 and the GSL is still in its infancy (I'm not talking about game development [alpha + beta for example] but just the pro scene, GSL, and the state of the game such as balance) There is a lot of time for growth and development. That includes the game itself of course (with the new maps in GSL + the new two expansions on the way) but it also includes the casters/staff for the GSL. While some new viewers (and current) of the GSL may be put off by Kelly , GOMTV has plenty of time to build an audience and time to experiment with things. If they don't do something right, they have time to fix it since it's still early. Overall - for those who do not like Kelly (regardless of the reason), remember that:1. Artosis + Tasteless were the ones that wanted this (new caster for Code A) 2. Kelly was chosen because she was immediately available and had a working visa. 3. They are still looking for a caster. 4. Kelly can improve.
Good points, all of them.
I just hope that, with all this criticism (both constructive and non-), that either GSL or Kelly can make some revisions, and soon...
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What's the point of all this?
The OP looks like the script for FOX news in starcraft land.
I doubt Kelly is gonna "improve" as her casting style obviously has made her quite popular in the SEA area. Personally I can't stand it, but that's my problem I guess.
Sadly I have to agree with Tyler.. her voice just isn't pleasent to listen to in my opinion.
I hope the best players get to code S, and it'll be all good.
I guess this thread is to, yet again, tell everyone that Team Liquid members are stupid and that haters gonna hate. Nice.
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On February 25 2011 04:17 samaNo4 wrote:
That's not funny. Yes, you tried, but no. Some of those concerns are real ones for some people. I'm not talking about that stuff with Kelly (people tend to be disgusting sometimes) but more important ones like the showmatch issues or the no-live in NASL, and it's normal, because we all want the best for the things we love. At least, if it was funny or intelligent, it would pass, but it's quite awful. You try to discredit legit arguments by extending them to the absurd, trying to laugh at our worries. Bad job.
Being concerned that the games aren't going to be LIVE, is not, I repeat, is NOT a legitimate concern. ftgrffhbjvgjcyfhxi;k. They are adding production value, something sponsors and future investors look upon as very important. Much more important than being able to look up at the stars and know people are playing that game right at that moment. Use your intellect and suddenly it's not a legitimate concern in the slightest.
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Canada11335 Posts
On February 26 2011 01:49 Aim Here wrote:
Dammit, IA! You guys were all funny and stuff when you were poking fun at all those Starcraft e-celebrities that I like to laugh at too! That stuff rocked! Now that you're poking fun of the stuff that me and ALL MY FRIENDS have been saying this week, you've jumped the shark! You suck. You're not funny anymore. I'm going to IRC to make Chinglish jokes and kitchen jokes about Kelly now, because THAT'S real comedy.
(Keep up the good work!)
I wondered about this myself. For those so invested in the Kelly 'debate', it may be difficult to see the absurdity of the situation and therefore would not find this humorous.
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EPT
