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United States9251 Posts
Greetings TL,
Today, my blog will be discussing whether you, TL, likes the SC BW Corsair... or the SC2 Phoenix. This has probably been discussed already, however I'd like to reopen it.
SC BW Corsair: 80 shield 100 hp 5 damage plus splash. Ability: Disruption Web
The Starcraft Brood War Corsair is most commonly used in Protoss versus Zerg. They are excellent for overlord snipes, scouting info, and probably the best unit for DPS AtA. Commonly used in great numbers in some builds like the Sair/Reaver or the Sair/DT, they killed overlords, while supporting the respective build units (reavers and DT).
However, outside of PvZ, they are extremely rare. PvP probably has NEVER seen Corsair, but of course I could be wrong, after all I've only been following Starcraft since 4 years ago...
Corsairs are also rare in PvT, although there is the D-Web build where the Protoss disruption webs the Terran tank line and barrels in with a huge ball. But mainly, Corsairs are used only in PvZ.
Starcraft 2 Phoenix: 60 shield 120 hp 5 damage. Ability: Graviton Beam
The Phoenix was made popular by one player from TL, Nony/Liquid'Tyler himself. Phoenix play commonly is based upon killing workers or picking off large attacking forces.
In PvP, people normally use the Phoenix to pick off Immortals or Collosi. Once they have an advantage in army sizes, they overrun the opponent.
In PvT, the Phoenix are used to pick off the tanks, letting the weak marines die.
In PvZ, the Phoenix are used like the Corsair, getting scouting info, picking off overlords, and ever killing queens.
So the question is, corsair or phoenix? Disable units, or kill units? I personally feel that the Phoenix is the better unit. What do you think?
 
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United States23799 Posts
It's kinda comparing apples to oranges. What they have in common is that they are both protoss air units who damage other air units. That's not to say that phoenix' are the replacement of corsairs.
I have to say though phoenix' are more versatile all around... they can be useful in any matchup and aren't usually nullified by the unit composition of the opponent.
BUT, phoenix' don't allow you to mow down a 25 overlord farm in 3 seconds when nub-bashing :p
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I don't remember exactly, I think nalra used a corsair build against reach in the mycube OSL semis. Very cool game.
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The phoenix is far superior to the corsair. They would revolutionize PvP in BW since they would deny reaver/shuttles so easily and can snipe high templar. In SC2, phoenix play doesn't only scout and hunt overloads. They can be used to harass mineral lines and pick off key units.
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and probably the best unit for DPS AtA.
Someone's never used a valk
The phoenix is far superior to the corsair. They would revolutionize PvP in BW since they would deny reaver/shuttles so easily and can snipe high templar. In SC2, phoenix play doesn't only scout and hunt overloads. They can be used to harass mineral lines and pick off key units.
Someone's never played bw
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I guess it's pretty much personal preference. Personally, I think that Corsairs do a much much better job at anti-air. If they were in SC2 it would help a lot against Mutas, but w/e.
Kinda off topic, but I wonder if it would be useful to add like 2-3 corsairs with dweb very late game vs Terran. Dwebing front tanks would be very handy, or goliaths if you have carriers, also they could snipe vessels for you arbiters. Then again, they could just emp all your sairs and they're pretty much ineffective :/
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They are not used in SC2 pvp at all, nobody really uses immortals and phoenixes are awful vs colossi.
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United States22850 Posts
On January 03 2011 02:06 Scaramanga wrote:Show nested quote +The phoenix is far superior to the corsair. They would revolutionize PvP in BW since they would deny reaver/shuttles so easily and can snipe high templar. In SC2, phoenix play doesn't only scout and hunt overloads. They can be used to harass mineral lines and pick off key units. Someone's never played bw
What's wrong with what he said?
Aside from having a worse avatar/voice, Phoenixes are way better than Corsairs were, probably even when comparing +1 sairs vs. mutas to phoenix vs. muta. They do 10 damage and +10 to light. Yeah, AoE eventually out does that, but in the 6 units range, I'd definitely take phoenixes over corsairs in PvZ. Plus Graviton is actually useful and in this silly hypothetical, you wouldn't have to worry about scourge if you had a phoenix.
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Phoenixes micro themselves so i'm gonna go with Corsairs
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Somebody's kind of a tool
User was warned for this post
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United States9251 Posts
On January 03 2011 02:31 Jibba wrote:
Plus Graviton is actually useful and in this silly hypothetical, you wouldn't have to worry about scourge if you had a phoenix.
if there were scourge =P
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The ability to kite using phoenix is pretty much as useful (if not more, since it would be better against scourge or *too many mutas* or other units that would force it to flee) than the corsairs area of effect ability. It would have been amazing to have in BW, and currently is pretty darn useful to have in SC2.
Also, graviton beam is a heck of a lot more useful than disruption web >.>
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I feel that phoenixes were what scouts were meant to be. If scouts started with speed and cheaper we would see them used like phoenixes. Scouts could shoot backwards without slowing down, forcing the zerg to get ground anti air rather than relying scourge to get air dominance. That said, phoenix is still superior because of their anti grav ability.
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United States9251 Posts
On January 03 2011 02:02 micronesia wrote:
It's kinda comparing apples to oranges. What they have in common is that they are both protoss air units who damage other air units. That's not to say that phoenix' are the replacement of corsairs.
I have to say though phoenix' are more versatile all around... they can be useful in any matchup and aren't usually nullified by the unit composition of the opponent.
BUT, phoenix' don't allow you to mow down a 25 overlord farm in 3 seconds when nub-bashing :p
true =P i loved sending a couple sair to the zerg's corner where they stack there ov's and supply block them.
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It used to be possible to open 1 stargate sair PvT on island maps. The reason phoenixes are better is that graviton beam comes with the unit, while you have to get a fleet beacon to research dweb, which is basically only for sair/carrier PvZ lategame.
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On January 03 2011 02:37 SlimeBagly wrote:
Somebody's kind of a tool
exactly ^^
i like both units. i think a colossus vs reaver vote would be more onesided 
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Phoenix are also very good against Mutas since I can shoot while moving and Mutas are not able to hit if they are micro correctly so they're very good in PvZ. In Pvt they're just good for picking off scv's and for harass. I think phoneix is more useful than Corsairs.
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I never played BW at any real level in terms of 1v1, can someone tell me why corsair d-web wasn't used that much? It seems to me to be a very strong ability if microed properly.
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On January 03 2011 02:57 sikyon wrote:
I never played BW at any real level in terms of 1v1, can someone tell me why corsair d-web wasn't used that much? It seems to me to be a very strong ability if microed properly.
You need a fleet beacon for it, it takes forever to build energy (you also need the energy upgrade to cast two per corsair), and it doesn't last that long. Also, no smartcasting so slapping down a lot of dwebs effectively is very difficult.
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I think I remember corsairs being used in PvP for BW (that was Nal_rA vs Bisu in the GomTV MSL S1 semi-finals i think), but I believe that the map was an island-ish map, where you needed shuttles to transport units over.
Aside from that, I prefer phoenixes over corsairs since phoenixes can kite so easily and have the graviton beam (which is really cheap in energy). As much as disruption web is useful, it takes a lot of energy, and you need a lot of corsairs to make it work. With the same number of phoenixes, you can do a lot of graviton beams and kill a lot of units.
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EPT
