Why is Bronze league so cheesy? /qq blog

On December 31 2010 15:37 limonovich wrote:
I've only played 1 of my placement matches so far and am too scared to play any more in case i get put into bronze after raging or getting cheesed in the other 4. FOREVER UNRANKED

On December 31 2010 15:38 Cedstick wrote:
'cause casuals aren't in it to get better, they just want the win. Practice hard, think critically, force yourself to fix your mistakes and gain good habits, and you'll be outta' there in no time.

"Bitch, please!" ~ Nappa, and your future response to any cheese.

On December 31 2010 15:42 Cedstick wrote:
How so? If you need to, don't play the macro game for now. Play aggressively -- and make sure to scout! Before you leave your base to scout, just send your SCV or probe or whatever around the edges of your base to see if there's a proxy. Get three Barracks down before expanding, or do a four-gate. Fight fire with fire.

On December 31 2010 15:42 TheKing wrote:
We all had to deal with it, even the people who played in the beta had to aswell. Everyone starts out bad, unless you were some brood war pro, everyone has had to face multiple cheeses and had to push through that to get into longer and less cheesy games. You need to take the time and practice scouting out and defending these builds. If you can't beat 4 minute strategies, how are you going to be able to handle 10 minute or 15 minute strategies?

Gimme a PM if you want some practise. 2300 Diamond Zerg.

On December 31 2010 15:45 Cedstick wrote:
I still forget shit sometimes. I forgot stuff for the longest time when wrapping my brain around Brood War (RTSes.) It was the most frustrating shit ever. But if you keep forcing yourself to do these things, it eventually becomes unconscious action.

It's not just about making a big army. It's about mechanics and scouting. Oh god, is it about mechanics and scouting.

The game is hard to learn. Time to accept that

On December 31 2010 15:45 emperorchampion wrote:
Switch to Zerg and 6pool every game.

Then you'll see who's doing the qq'ing hahahaha.

On December 31 2010 15:39 Raeleigh wrote:

I was like that. >_>
Then I said no matter how poorly or how well I do, i'm going to end up in Bronze league anyway, so no point in procrastinating.
And now I wish I hadn't even bothered. >: U

On December 31 2010 15:48 Raeleigh wrote:

Thanks for making me feel better. Remind to punch you in the face and balls repeatedly if I ever meet you IRL. Then you can see how it feels to get "advice" :'D

On December 31 2010 15:48 TheKing wrote:
Well, theres only two things you can do, complain about being in bronze or set that thinking aside and striving to improve. If 6pool was overpowered it would have been removed already.

On December 31 2010 15:49 limonovich wrote:


I only started playing sc in summer and am still learning the game. played broodwar for couple of months before getting sc2 and am now learning and practising strategies, so that i can win all my placement matches (1 won so far) and get into plat. going along the lines of "d=diamond," if i don't get into diamond i'll just quit and go back to css or cod4

On December 31 2010 15:50 Cedstick wrote:

That's why I don't ask for advice

On December 31 2010 15:57 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:
If you are losing to cheese 24/7 then you deserve to be in bronze. That's the whole point of getting good, you learn to beat crappy rush strategies and learn to go later in the game. Playing macro games means that you are good enough to fend off the cheese and are better than your opponent in that you beat him or her in a more complex game (the late game) in which you would be rewarded because you are the better player, basically making it more likely for you to win. That is why you will never see a pro who can't go to the late game.

Simply put, being able to play a macro game is something you earn.

On December 31 2010 15:34 Raeleigh wrote:
Please don't post in my blog being rude either. Please. I just needed somewhere to cry and whine, where I wouldn't get made fun of cause I play SC2. qq

On December 31 2010 16:10 Zim23 wrote:
The more you play against cheese the better you should be getting at scouting/stopping it. Especially Bronze level cheese which is horribly executed. Think of it as an opportunity to work on becoming cheese-proof, it's good practice.

On December 31 2010 16:37 eLiE wrote:
lol, don't expect the cheese to become less frequent as you get higher up on the ladder, expect it to be better executed. PROPER SCOUTING!

On December 31 2010 16:52 Licmyobelisk wrote:
same here, except I want to get to 2400 + diamond before ladder resets

On December 31 2010 17:03 FuRong wrote:
I find the ladder kind of depressing at times.

Just played a guy who proxy gated me on Steppes of War. I crushed it because he was fucking terrible. Checked his match history, and sure enough he does it every single game. He has 800 games, and is 2300 Diamond with more points than me =/

So the moral of the story is don't expect to get cheesed any less even if you get out of Bronze =/

Also, you'd think that after proxy gating 800 games in a row that the guy would be able to execute it properly, right? But nope, still terrible. And 2300 Diamond. The cheese doesn't stop, it just gets (marginally) better as you go up the ladder imo.

On December 31 2010 17:04 SubtleArt wrote:
Just stop QQing, get over it, and thank them for the free wins. bronze cheeses are executed to horrendously it's almost laughable. Cannon rushes where they dont even attempt to hide the first pylon, putting cannons right in the open rather than hugging an edge, going 4 warpgate without using chrono on the warpgate upgrade, marine marauder pushes without stim, absolutely no forcefields, and banshee rushes where they get impatient and suicide the banshee into two queens.

It's such a joke, just take your free win and move onto the next game.

On December 31 2010 17:05 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
...at least you CAN play. I played sc2 for like 10 games after getting it in Xmas, then it crashed my laptop and my laptop died. It was the only PC I had with good enough graphics to even barely play it on minimum. (

On December 31 2010 17:10 Dromar wrote:


I was going to post an inspiring and mind-blowing revelation about Starcraft, but you don't want advice so... whatevs.

On December 31 2010 17:13 limonovich wrote:
Moral of the story is that laddering is depressing and should be avoided at all costs.

On December 31 2010 17:14 sc2lime wrote:
Bronze is so cheesy because most are trying to get out of bronze.

On December 31 2010 17:20 sc2lime wrote:
@Raeleigh I say try and have fun with canon rushing. You need to at least to try and have fun to keep sane specially losing mass games to cheese. Huk canons every game in metalopolis and it makes me want to canon my games too.

On December 31 2010 17:24 iSeeNubs wrote:
Seriously, your happiness is to be earned by yourself. People like Cedric are trying to help you when you are simply neglecting that since all you want is this sympathetic treatment from everyone else. If you want to stop this cheese,scout and react properly to the situation.

EDIT: My bad I guess this was a thread where you just wanted to be related to after all. Didn't read pg 2

On December 31 2010 17:45 meegrean wrote:
just learn to defend against all-ins.

On December 31 2010 17:45 Raeleigh wrote:

easier said than done, imo

On December 31 2010 15:52 Hot_Bid wrote:
If you learn how to defend cheese, it's pretty easy to stop it at Bronze level. They really can't do it well, even 4 gate is just mistimed and badly executed. 6-pool can be stopped with just doing safe gate and rax timings.

On December 31 2010 15:39 Raeleigh wrote:

I was like that. >_>
Then I said no matter how poorly or how well I do, i'm going to end up in Bronze league anyway, so no point in procrastinating.
And now I wish I hadn't even bothered. >: U

On December 31 2010 18:04 coats wrote:


select some workers>A attack the rush while making infantry+more workers(if you have the money)+wall off>win game


ask someone on the forums to cheese you all day and practice against it

On December 31 2010 18:20 mmp wrote:
Play defensively, macro hard, and you should be able to work your way over these clowns.

If you know they're going to attack you, (1) scout it, (2) defend it.

On December 31 2010 18:26 Asha` wrote:
#1) make sure you scout!

#2) watch your replays:

What were you doing to respond to the cheese when it was on its way, did you even know it was? Be certain that you aren't mistaking a simple bit of early pressure for cheese, it can be tempting to think that every early attack is cheesy. When you succesfully defend something look at what you did right, how long you needed to have that defence in place etc (and try not to fool yourself if the defence only worked because they did something stupid)

#3) search the strategy forum for how to defend popular cheeses so you know how to react when you do scout something!

#4) practice makes perfect:

if you can find someone to play a few customs with who's happy to play random (so you don't know what's coming =p) and rush you with a couple of different builds you can work on your defence without the worry of a loss keeping you in bronze

#5) if all else fails, adopt a more defensive opening to your builds:

It sounds like your macro mechanics are considerably better than the majority of your opponents, so why not sacrifice some economy early to allow you to defend during the stage of the game when you are weak. You'll eventually want to fend things off in a more economical fashion, but if you just want to have a bit of fun, win a few more ladder games, and advance out of bronze then abuse your strengths and force a macro game.

On December 31 2010 22:25 OmniEulogy wrote:
just practice 1v1 with friends who are plat/diamond with win % over 60 and you should be fine when it comes to the ladder if you can play competitively against your friends.

On December 31 2010 22:29 Tekin wrote:
I know how you feel man but I had to cheese on my placement games with double gas steals

On January 01 2011 00:24 TemplarCo. wrote:
Well its not the only cheesy league believe me I'm in Platinum and still get cannon rushed, 6pooled and bunker all-in rush so it does happen in the other of leagues but its less common.

Just be patient, at a point you'll be able to hold it off so you'll start to get better, just be patient and play a lot, you'll get less cheese.

On January 01 2011 00:28 jacosajh wrote:


QFT. Even in Diamond, people are so bad at executing cheese. Just because they can get their zerglings there faster doesn't mean they'll know how to micro them. Other low-level cheese like Cannon rushes rely on people overreacting, like attacking the Pylons or Cannons, instead of just killing the Probe and stopping further advance.

On January 01 2011 00:56 FrayzZeUsher wrote:
Its the same in 2500+ diamond. Nobody plays the actual game.. just all-in ridiculousness.

On January 01 2011 02:23 Ipp wrote:
* Use your Veto's and veto the maps that cheese is the strongest on such as Steppes of War.
* Search for a Build Order Tester and do your build until you remember when to move your worker where you want to build and build when you have exactly that amount.
* Use hotkeys to switch building and build units
* Play campaign some.
* Watch pro's play and look at their build order
* Post some replays so people can tell you what you did wrong.

On January 01 2011 02:32 Plexa wrote:
Upload a replay

On January 01 2011 03:01 jlim wrote:
Thanks for your advice. I have the same problem you've had and lately I've been thinking of doing that, just go ahead and start from the bottom of bronze league. Now I think I'm gonna train for some more time before the placement matches lol.

On January 01 2011 03:14 Torenhire wrote:
Day9 just did a daily on this not too long ago.

it was about zergs and reacting to bunker rushes, I believe. Just find a friend and have them cheese you for hours until you know the timings, how to properly react, etc.

Frustrating, but it seems like you've got a good mid-late game going and if you can get over the early game stupidity you'll be able to capitalize on their cheese instead of hating it.


Plus, I'm plat zerg and I get cheesed all the time anyways so it's not like Bronze = cheese and everything else = standard macro game anyways...so at some point you'll have to learn how to counter all these cheeses anyways, mind as well start learning basic timings and strategies to counter them while they aren't as potent.

On January 01 2011 16:15 Rocketboomer wrote:
No one has mentioned that winning is also a mentality and high value of western culture. As a broad generalization, Asian cultures value the journey, western cultures value the result. I'm an American and my country fought the world's most powerful army (at the time) and won independence. It sets a precedent for a culture and mentality that still exists today.

I remember when I played a lot of street fighter and watched videos of it, Japanese players would say that American play style is to win by severely punishing mistakes. They'd say that Japanese play style is based on technical expertise and mechanics. IdrA said in an interview with Artosis that the difference between north american and korean ladder was that koreans wanted to get better while americans just wanted to win.

TL;DR: cheese happens because some people only value winning. It's not unique to starcraft. Happens in every game online. Also agreeing with custom games with practice partners. as with all online games, its better to play with friends. They'll only cheese you once in a while to keep you on your toes.

On January 02 2011 07:20 MarineHeroSamKhan wrote:
Scout your base and the area around it if versing P or T. For Zerg, well forge wall in! OR cheese = P

On January 02 2011 16:36 RyuChus wrote:
If someone is cheesing you in bronze, you should play more custom games, rather than ladder. Get better with custom games, then suddenly come back to ladder roflstomp noobs and win.

1) Learn to defend against cheese.

2) Learn to have better macro.

3) Try and eradicate mistakes.

4) watch tons of pro games to learn from them. ( Don't just listen to commentary like i do now.)

5) HAVE FUN!

GL with your, epic struggle out of bronze league. Never been down there... Don't ever want to be.

On January 04 2011 05:49 eviltomahawk wrote:
Playing with practice partners helps a lot. I assume you probably have friends who also play SC2. Practicing against them is much more flexible than practicing on custom games or the ladder.