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I am currently in a game development program in university, and I happened to take a course appropriately named "Business of Gaming". My professor in this course owns his own gaming company so he is quite knowledgeable in this field. Last week was our last lecture with him, and since he did not have anything left to teach us, he decided to do a Q&A session with us. Some of the questions asked and answers given were irrelevant to the majority of you, but there was one question that I asked which gave me really thought provoking answer which I would like to share.
The question I asked him was "How do you think society views gamers?". This is a question that was asked many times on TL but this was the first time I got such a response. His response goes as follows (paraphrasing):
Society is much more accepting of gamers today definitely. We aren't viewed so much as just lazy dropouts that live in our mother's basements. That being said, there is a kind of backlash effect going on right now. For example, a gamer, when asked if he is a gamer, might say "Yes, I am a gamer, BUT I am not like THOSE type of gamers".
The idea that he was trying to show us was basically that gamers, although more accepted, now have this kind of double standard. People are now more willing to tell others that they play games, but they do not want to associate themselves with their hardcore counterparts, and the hardcore gamers do not want to associate themselves with the casual gamers, causing a divide in the gaming community.
The reality is that every single person today is a gamer. Whether you are playing angry birds on your iPhone, or playing Starcraft on your PC. It doesn't matter what game you play, you are still a gamer. We all play games because we love to play games.
Going a bit more in depth into the gaming industry, there are games that actually appeal to both the casual and the hardcore. The most popular games in the world, like Sonic or even Mario. These games did something right, in the sense that the hardcore gamers would want to get every single coin and be the perfectionist that they are, while the casual gamers just wanted to go through the level without losing. These type of games prove that we are all just gamers, and we shouldn't disassociate ourselves from our own community.
I think that the day of which when gamers can truly be accepted by society would come only when we accept ourselves for who we are. It does not matter what game you play, or how well you play it, as long as you share the same love for games. There will be a day when gamers can talk to one another and say "Oh yeah I am a(n) FPS/RTS/RPG gamer".
As Day[9] once said, "I play Starcraft, and I am proud that I am a Starcraft player". There will come a day when all gamers can stand together and say, We play games, and we are proud that we are gamers.
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Calgary25977 Posts
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into?
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To me the self title gamer states that the person spends the majority of their free time playing video games as opposed to other things like sports.
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On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into?
Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer".
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Calgary25977 Posts
On December 15 2010 05:01 PaPaLung wrote:
To me the self title gamer states that the person spends the majority of their free time playing video games as opposed to other things like sports.
That's my point. Everyone does something with the majority of their free time. You don't see groups of people discussing the ins and outsof being cast by society as "readers", "sewers", "TV watchers", "shoppers", "talkers", "cooks", etc. These are just normal people. Oh and they have a hobby.
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I agree Chill. I am a gamer, but that is not the only thing I identify myself as being. And to OP, I think that maybe we just not want to be embarrassed to claim to be gamers, and maybe not so much proud of it.
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Calgary25977 Posts
On December 15 2010 05:03 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into? Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer".
I think being an athlete goes above and beyond a hobby. But you still see gamers define themselves by their hobby. I can't think of anyone else who does this besides gamers. It's a little strange.
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On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into?
Very good point, I really don't understand it personally. I mean if someone asks if I play Starcraft, I'm not gonna deny it. But this doesn't mean my life revolves around gaming.
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On December 15 2010 05:06 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:03 Comeh wrote:On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into? Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer". I think being an athlete goes above and beyond a hobby. But you still see gamers define themselves by their hobby. I can't think of anyone else who does this besides gamers. It's a little strange.
Well, I would guess that gamers value their hobby more than the normal hobby as well - playing games often bring forth very strong feelings of accomplishment, interaction, absorption, etc, and considering the amount of time gamers put into it, they want to feel as though there is something more to it then just playing a video game. This is compounded by the development of competitive gaming, though this becomes another discussion entirely.
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By definition, a gamer is a person who plays games. As such, I am going by that definition that anyone who plays games is a gamer.
Also, why is it embarrassing to admit you play games? Literally everyone today plays games to some extent.
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On December 15 2010 05:06 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:03 Comeh wrote:On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into? Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer". I think being an athlete goes above and beyond a hobby. But you still see gamers define themselves by their hobby. I can't think of anyone else who does this besides gamers. It's a little strange.
there are many people that call themselves a football player or whatever. "Fanatic" book readers call themselves "book worms" i guess (at least they do in germany). So yeah, everyone does that.
What i think is true on your statement however, chill, is, that the share of people giving themselves a name for what they are doing still depends on how "abnormal" their thing is. Like, reading books is considered the most normal thing in the world, thus not that many people fell the "need" to call themselves a special name for that. But gaming was just until recently still considered a very weird thing, so "gamers" still quite often call themselves just that.
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Calgary25977 Posts
On December 15 2010 05:09 dignity wrote:
By definition, a gamer is a person who plays games.
As such, I am going by that definition that anyone who plays games is a gamer.
I think this is a pretty vanilla response to my comments. I expected a little more. If you want to dig deep enough, your definition applies to 95% of modern people.
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I have a high disrespect for gamers, not because they spend most their time playing video games, but because they don't. Most self-proclaimed gamers aren't actual gamers. They are a regular person who happens to play COD for a few hours a week and believes that it's a real skill set. Playing video games isn't an occupation to them, it isn't even a hobby most of the time. It's just something they do to pass the time, and then they get back to their normal lives. 'Gamers' are an insult to real gamers. There are people who dedicate their existence to playing video games even non-professionally. These people do not usually call themselves gamers and I can see why. Personally, I am not a real gamer, and I am not a 'gamer' either. I am someone who plays video games for 8+ hours a day, and I will try to be a 'gamer' until the standard for being a gamer requires you to actually play video games.
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On December 15 2010 05:06 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:03 Comeh wrote:On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into? Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer". I think being an athlete goes above and beyond a hobby. But you still see gamers define themselves by their hobby. I can't think of anyone else who does this besides gamers. It's a little strange.
Dancers, musicians, and many other people definitely do define themselves as such. I think people want to define themselves as what they are passionate about. So what if you work whatever job, collect baseball cards, etc... You consider yourself a gamer because it is your passion just as the dancer, musician, etc would.
On December 15 2010 05:17 Chairman Ray wrote:
I have a high disrespect for gamers, not because they spend most their time playing video games, but because they don't. Most self-proclaimed gamers aren't actual gamers. They are a regular person who happens to play COD for a few hours a week and believes that it's a real skill set. Playing video games isn't an occupation to them, it isn't even a hobby most of the time. It's just something they do to pass the time, and then they get back to their normal lives. 'Gamers' are an insult to real gamers. There are people who dedicate their existence to playing video games even non-professionally. These people do not usually call themselves gamers and I can see why. Personally, I am not a real gamer, and I am not a 'gamer' either. I am someone who plays video games for 8+ hours a day, and I will try to be a 'gamer' until the standard for being a gamer requires you to actually play video games.
I have no idea wtf you just said...
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On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into?
I think a big part of it is because for someone identifying themselves as a gamer it is cultural just as much as it is a hobby.
To make an example look at Punk rock (more so back when it was new and not now). Listening to music is just a hobby/past time/entertainment, but people who were punk would identify themselves as such because it was also a cultural experience to them. You can easily say the same about skaters, potheads, and a bunch of other 'groups'. Sometimes a hobby is used as the central identifier for a type of culture. I don't see a gamer as an identifier for anyone who plays games, I see it as an identifier for someone who is involved with a particular culture that has a common ground of video games.
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Calgary25977 Posts
On December 15 2010 05:19 Scorcher2k wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:06 Chill wrote:On December 15 2010 05:03 Comeh wrote:On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into? Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer". I think being an athlete goes above and beyond a hobby. But you still see gamers define themselves by their hobby. I can't think of anyone else who does this besides gamers. It's a little strange. Dancers, musicians, and many other people definitely do define themselves as such. I think people want to define themselves as what they are passionate about. So what if you work whatever job, collect baseball cards, etc... You consider yourself a gamer because it is your passion just as the dancer, musician, etc would.
Good examples.
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On December 15 2010 05:19 Scorcher2k wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:06 Chill wrote:On December 15 2010 05:03 Comeh wrote:On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into? Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer". I think being an athlete goes above and beyond a hobby. But you still see gamers define themselves by their hobby. I can't think of anyone else who does this besides gamers. It's a little strange. Dancers, musicians, and many other people definitely do define themselves as such. I think people want to define themselves as what they are passionate about. So what if you work whatever job, collect baseball cards, etc... You consider yourself a gamer because it is your passion just as the dancer, musician, etc would. Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:17 Chairman Ray wrote:
I have a high disrespect for gamers, not because they spend most their time playing video games, but because they don't. Most self-proclaimed gamers aren't actual gamers. They are a regular person who happens to play COD for a few hours a week and believes that it's a real skill set. Playing video games isn't an occupation to them, it isn't even a hobby most of the time. It's just something they do to pass the time, and then they get back to their normal lives. 'Gamers' are an insult to real gamers. There are people who dedicate their existence to playing video games even non-professionally. These people do not usually call themselves gamers and I can see why. Personally, I am not a real gamer, and I am not a 'gamer' either. I am someone who plays video games for 8+ hours a day, and I will try to be a 'gamer' until the standard for being a gamer requires you to actually play video games. I have no idea wtf you just said...
Sorry, my paragraph was a bit confusing. I'll try to summarize it.
Basically, people who call themselves gamers don't play a lot of video games, which discourages the very small population of real gamers from calling themselves gamers. Therefore the subculture of being a gamer does not exist.
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On December 15 2010 05:25 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:19 Scorcher2k wrote:On December 15 2010 05:06 Chill wrote:On December 15 2010 05:03 Comeh wrote:On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into? Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer". I think being an athlete goes above and beyond a hobby. But you still see gamers define themselves by their hobby. I can't think of anyone else who does this besides gamers. It's a little strange. Dancers, musicians, and many other people definitely do define themselves as such. I think people want to define themselves as what they are passionate about. So what if you work whatever job, collect baseball cards, etc... You consider yourself a gamer because it is your passion just as the dancer, musician, etc would. On December 15 2010 05:17 Chairman Ray wrote:
I have a high disrespect for gamers, not because they spend most their time playing video games, but because they don't. Most self-proclaimed gamers aren't actual gamers. They are a regular person who happens to play COD for a few hours a week and believes that it's a real skill set. Playing video games isn't an occupation to them, it isn't even a hobby most of the time. It's just something they do to pass the time, and then they get back to their normal lives. 'Gamers' are an insult to real gamers. There are people who dedicate their existence to playing video games even non-professionally. These people do not usually call themselves gamers and I can see why. Personally, I am not a real gamer, and I am not a 'gamer' either. I am someone who plays video games for 8+ hours a day, and I will try to be a 'gamer' until the standard for being a gamer requires you to actually play video games. I have no idea wtf you just said... Sorry, my paragraph was a bit confusing. I'll try to summarize it. Basically, people who call themselves gamers don't play a lot of video games, which discourages the very small population of real gamers from calling themselves gamers. Therefore the subculture of being a gamer does not exist.
I don't really follow your logic or thought process through all of that. I probably don't agree with your conclusions, but I have noticed that some of the most... um imposing I guess is the right word... people who identify themselves as gamers seem to have very little gaming skills and/or play very little video games and instead tend to just enjoy more of the humor, stories, and culture of the games they do play. I noticed this a ton when I was at Pax East.
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On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into?
I agree. I have never understood the fascination with forging an identity around a hobby.
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On December 15 2010 05:25 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:19 Scorcher2k wrote:On December 15 2010 05:06 Chill wrote:On December 15 2010 05:03 Comeh wrote:On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into? Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer". I think being an athlete goes above and beyond a hobby. But you still see gamers define themselves by their hobby. I can't think of anyone else who does this besides gamers. It's a little strange. Dancers, musicians, and many other people definitely do define themselves as such. I think people want to define themselves as what they are passionate about. So what if you work whatever job, collect baseball cards, etc... You consider yourself a gamer because it is your passion just as the dancer, musician, etc would. On December 15 2010 05:17 Chairman Ray wrote:
I have a high disrespect for gamers, not because they spend most their time playing video games, but because they don't. Most self-proclaimed gamers aren't actual gamers. They are a regular person who happens to play COD for a few hours a week and believes that it's a real skill set. Playing video games isn't an occupation to them, it isn't even a hobby most of the time. It's just something they do to pass the time, and then they get back to their normal lives. 'Gamers' are an insult to real gamers. There are people who dedicate their existence to playing video games even non-professionally. These people do not usually call themselves gamers and I can see why. Personally, I am not a real gamer, and I am not a 'gamer' either. I am someone who plays video games for 8+ hours a day, and I will try to be a 'gamer' until the standard for being a gamer requires you to actually play video games. I have no idea wtf you just said... Sorry, my paragraph was a bit confusing. I'll try to summarize it. Basically, people who call themselves gamers don't play a lot of video games, which discourages the very small population of real gamers from calling themselves gamers. Therefore the subculture of being a gamer does not exist.
You are far too wrapped up in what it means to be a "real gamer." Who cares if someone says they are a gamer and only plays farmville for an hour a day? Is that really a huge problem that we need to address? Do hardcore gamers really get furious when they hear a casual gamer talk about playing games?
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On December 15 2010 05:31 -Frog- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:25 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 15 2010 05:19 Scorcher2k wrote:On December 15 2010 05:06 Chill wrote:On December 15 2010 05:03 Comeh wrote:On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into? Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer". I think being an athlete goes above and beyond a hobby. But you still see gamers define themselves by their hobby. I can't think of anyone else who does this besides gamers. It's a little strange. Dancers, musicians, and many other people definitely do define themselves as such. I think people want to define themselves as what they are passionate about. So what if you work whatever job, collect baseball cards, etc... You consider yourself a gamer because it is your passion just as the dancer, musician, etc would. On December 15 2010 05:17 Chairman Ray wrote:
I have a high disrespect for gamers, not because they spend most their time playing video games, but because they don't. Most self-proclaimed gamers aren't actual gamers. They are a regular person who happens to play COD for a few hours a week and believes that it's a real skill set. Playing video games isn't an occupation to them, it isn't even a hobby most of the time. It's just something they do to pass the time, and then they get back to their normal lives. 'Gamers' are an insult to real gamers. There are people who dedicate their existence to playing video games even non-professionally. These people do not usually call themselves gamers and I can see why. Personally, I am not a real gamer, and I am not a 'gamer' either. I am someone who plays video games for 8+ hours a day, and I will try to be a 'gamer' until the standard for being a gamer requires you to actually play video games. I have no idea wtf you just said... Sorry, my paragraph was a bit confusing. I'll try to summarize it. Basically, people who call themselves gamers don't play a lot of video games, which discourages the very small population of real gamers from calling themselves gamers. Therefore the subculture of being a gamer does not exist. You are far too wrapped up in what it means to be a "real gamer." Who cares if someone says they are a gamer and only plays farmville for an hour a day? Is that really a huge problem that we need to address? Do hardcore gamers really get furious when they hear a casual gamer talk about playing games?
It's not a problem at all. It just denies the existence of the gamer subculture. In order to have a subculture, there must be minimum standards. That is why people can call themselves musicians or dancer, solely because there is a requirement. Being a gamer does not carry any standards, so, the subculture does not exist. The OP was talking about gamers being more accepted in society. That cannot be possible if there wasn't the gamer subculture in the first place.
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On December 15 2010 05:31 -Frog- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:25 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 15 2010 05:19 Scorcher2k wrote:On December 15 2010 05:06 Chill wrote:On December 15 2010 05:03 Comeh wrote:On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into? Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer". I think being an athlete goes above and beyond a hobby. But you still see gamers define themselves by their hobby. I can't think of anyone else who does this besides gamers. It's a little strange. Dancers, musicians, and many other people definitely do define themselves as such. I think people want to define themselves as what they are passionate about. So what if you work whatever job, collect baseball cards, etc... You consider yourself a gamer because it is your passion just as the dancer, musician, etc would. On December 15 2010 05:17 Chairman Ray wrote:
I have a high disrespect for gamers, not because they spend most their time playing video games, but because they don't. Most self-proclaimed gamers aren't actual gamers. They are a regular person who happens to play COD for a few hours a week and believes that it's a real skill set. Playing video games isn't an occupation to them, it isn't even a hobby most of the time. It's just something they do to pass the time, and then they get back to their normal lives. 'Gamers' are an insult to real gamers. There are people who dedicate their existence to playing video games even non-professionally. These people do not usually call themselves gamers and I can see why. Personally, I am not a real gamer, and I am not a 'gamer' either. I am someone who plays video games for 8+ hours a day, and I will try to be a 'gamer' until the standard for being a gamer requires you to actually play video games. I have no idea wtf you just said... Sorry, my paragraph was a bit confusing. I'll try to summarize it. Basically, people who call themselves gamers don't play a lot of video games, which discourages the very small population of real gamers from calling themselves gamers. Therefore the subculture of being a gamer does not exist. You are far too wrapped up in what it means to be a "real gamer." Who cares if someone says they are a gamer and only plays farmville for an hour a day? Is that really a huge problem that we need to address? Do hardcore gamers really get furious when they hear a casual gamer talk about playing games?
Some definitely do. Then again, this happens with really anything...
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On December 15 2010 05:36 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:31 -Frog- wrote:On December 15 2010 05:25 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 15 2010 05:19 Scorcher2k wrote:On December 15 2010 05:06 Chill wrote:On December 15 2010 05:03 Comeh wrote:On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into? Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer". I think being an athlete goes above and beyond a hobby. But you still see gamers define themselves by their hobby. I can't think of anyone else who does this besides gamers. It's a little strange. Dancers, musicians, and many other people definitely do define themselves as such. I think people want to define themselves as what they are passionate about. So what if you work whatever job, collect baseball cards, etc... You consider yourself a gamer because it is your passion just as the dancer, musician, etc would. On December 15 2010 05:17 Chairman Ray wrote:
I have a high disrespect for gamers, not because they spend most their time playing video games, but because they don't. Most self-proclaimed gamers aren't actual gamers. They are a regular person who happens to play COD for a few hours a week and believes that it's a real skill set. Playing video games isn't an occupation to them, it isn't even a hobby most of the time. It's just something they do to pass the time, and then they get back to their normal lives. 'Gamers' are an insult to real gamers. There are people who dedicate their existence to playing video games even non-professionally. These people do not usually call themselves gamers and I can see why. Personally, I am not a real gamer, and I am not a 'gamer' either. I am someone who plays video games for 8+ hours a day, and I will try to be a 'gamer' until the standard for being a gamer requires you to actually play video games. I have no idea wtf you just said... Sorry, my paragraph was a bit confusing. I'll try to summarize it. Basically, people who call themselves gamers don't play a lot of video games, which discourages the very small population of real gamers from calling themselves gamers. Therefore the subculture of being a gamer does not exist. You are far too wrapped up in what it means to be a "real gamer." Who cares if someone says they are a gamer and only plays farmville for an hour a day? Is that really a huge problem that we need to address? Do hardcore gamers really get furious when they hear a casual gamer talk about playing games? It's not a problem at all. It just denies the existence of the gamer subculture. In order to have a subculture, there must be minimum standards. That is why people can call themselves musicians or dancer, solely because there is a requirement. Being a gamer does not carry any standards, so, the subculture does not exist. The OP was talking about gamers being more accepted in society. That cannot be possible if there wasn't the gamer subculture in the first place.
I don't think that you can deny the existence of a subculture just because some people who don't belong to said subculture claim that they do. We could be talking about any subculture you want and you would find people who aren't actually a part of it that claim they are - that doesn't mean the subculture doesn't exist.
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On December 15 2010 05:40 -Frog- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:36 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 15 2010 05:31 -Frog- wrote:On December 15 2010 05:25 Chairman Ray wrote:On December 15 2010 05:19 Scorcher2k wrote:On December 15 2010 05:06 Chill wrote:On December 15 2010 05:03 Comeh wrote:On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into? Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer". I think being an athlete goes above and beyond a hobby. But you still see gamers define themselves by their hobby. I can't think of anyone else who does this besides gamers. It's a little strange. Dancers, musicians, and many other people definitely do define themselves as such. I think people want to define themselves as what they are passionate about. So what if you work whatever job, collect baseball cards, etc... You consider yourself a gamer because it is your passion just as the dancer, musician, etc would. On December 15 2010 05:17 Chairman Ray wrote:
I have a high disrespect for gamers, not because they spend most their time playing video games, but because they don't. Most self-proclaimed gamers aren't actual gamers. They are a regular person who happens to play COD for a few hours a week and believes that it's a real skill set. Playing video games isn't an occupation to them, it isn't even a hobby most of the time. It's just something they do to pass the time, and then they get back to their normal lives. 'Gamers' are an insult to real gamers. There are people who dedicate their existence to playing video games even non-professionally. These people do not usually call themselves gamers and I can see why. Personally, I am not a real gamer, and I am not a 'gamer' either. I am someone who plays video games for 8+ hours a day, and I will try to be a 'gamer' until the standard for being a gamer requires you to actually play video games. I have no idea wtf you just said... Sorry, my paragraph was a bit confusing. I'll try to summarize it. Basically, people who call themselves gamers don't play a lot of video games, which discourages the very small population of real gamers from calling themselves gamers. Therefore the subculture of being a gamer does not exist. You are far too wrapped up in what it means to be a "real gamer." Who cares if someone says they are a gamer and only plays farmville for an hour a day? Is that really a huge problem that we need to address? Do hardcore gamers really get furious when they hear a casual gamer talk about playing games? It's not a problem at all. It just denies the existence of the gamer subculture. In order to have a subculture, there must be minimum standards. That is why people can call themselves musicians or dancer, solely because there is a requirement. Being a gamer does not carry any standards, so, the subculture does not exist. The OP was talking about gamers being more accepted in society. That cannot be possible if there wasn't the gamer subculture in the first place. I don't think that you can deny the existence of a subculture just because some people who don't belong to said subculture claim that they do. We could be talking about any subculture you want and you would find people who aren't actually a part of it that claim they are - that doesn't mean the subculture doesn't exist.
Considering things like PAX, Teamliquid, and community driven gaming sites exist, denying that there is a gaming related culture is like denying evolution.
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So if anyone ask me, I'd say:
I play starcraft 1 hour a day to keep myself fresh.
I hope that's okay
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Frog pretty much summed up my whole point in one paragraph. It doesn't matter if you just play farmville for an hour a week, that does not mean you are not a gamer. Casual gamers are still gamers, as much as the hardcore are.
Just because you play hockey at the most amateur of levels does not mean you are not a hockey player.
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To me a gamer is someone who prioritizes gaming over all else. Some might classify themselves as a student, or a musician as that is their main occupation in life at the time. I've considered myself a gamer for years now. Pure Pwnage and Jeremy also had alot to do with it.
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On December 15 2010 05:57 Scarecrow wrote:
To me a gamer is someone who prioritizes gaming over all else. Some might classify themselves as a student, or a musician as that is their main occupation in life at the time. I've considered myself a gamer for years now. Pure Pwnage and Jeremy also had alot to do with it.
I would have to disagree with this view.
I do not prioritize playing games as the highest priority, but I would still be considered a gamer by friends and family. The reason being is because I play games. Even if someone just plays iPhone games, they are still gamers, even if they might not classify themselves as such. The creators of iPhone games are still game developers.
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Though gaming is becoming more and more "accepted", I think there is still some stigma behind it for the population. If anything, casual gaming is becoming more accepted while the sub-culture of competitive gaming is still something that's odd to people. As long as their's some separation from social norm, I think the term "gamer" will still be around no matter who agrees with it or not.
It's also a great term for people trying to market stuff. "Gamer" drink, "gamer" food, "gamer" clothing, etc.
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On December 15 2010 05:55 dignity wrote:
Frog pretty much summed up my whole point in one paragraph. It doesn't matter if you just play farmville for an hour a week, that does not mean you are not a gamer. Casual gamers are still gamers, as much as the hardcore are.
Just because you play hockey at the most amateur of levels does not mean you are not a hockey player.
Well the word gamer is a bit different because it's something that carries a bit of a double meaning. The term "Hockey Player" is really only ever used as "one who plays Hockey Games". Words like Gamer or Skater have more contexts. I could use the term skater to describe a 12 year old kid riding around on his first ever skateboard as he is "a person who skateboards", but the word is often used more to describe someone who skates AND is part of a certain culture. When you call someone a skater out of context people are generally going to assume they are part of the 'skateboarding culture'. When you call someone a gamer people are likewise going to generally assume you are referring to someone who is a part of the 'gaming culture' (or in this case just someone who plays a TON of video games as that's as far as some people seem to take the word).
As for you being considered a gamer even though it's not your priority, is it because you exhibit or are associated with several characteristics thought to be common among gaming culture/stereotypes? Chances are if you're posting on TL the answer is yes.
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United States7166 Posts
On December 15 2010 05:19 Scorcher2k wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:06 Chill wrote:On December 15 2010 05:03 Comeh wrote:On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into? Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer". I think being an athlete goes above and beyond a hobby. But you still see gamers define themselves by their hobby. I can't think of anyone else who does this besides gamers. It's a little strange. Dancers, musicians, and many other people definitely do define themselves as such. I think people want to define themselves as what they are passionate about. So what if you work whatever job, collect baseball cards, etc... You consider yourself a gamer because it is your passion just as the dancer, musician, etc would. Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:17 Chairman Ray wrote:
I have a high disrespect for gamers, not because they spend most their time playing video games, but because they don't. Most self-proclaimed gamers aren't actual gamers. They are a regular person who happens to play COD for a few hours a week and believes that it's a real skill set. Playing video games isn't an occupation to them, it isn't even a hobby most of the time. It's just something they do to pass the time, and then they get back to their normal lives. 'Gamers' are an insult to real gamers. There are people who dedicate their existence to playing video games even non-professionally. These people do not usually call themselves gamers and I can see why. Personally, I am not a real gamer, and I am not a 'gamer' either. I am someone who plays video games for 8+ hours a day, and I will try to be a 'gamer' until the standard for being a gamer requires you to actually play video games. I have no idea wtf you just said...
did you really just compare dancers and musicians to "gamers"?
merriam-webster defines a gamer as : a person who plays games; especially : a person who regularly plays computer or video games
the average people who call themselves "gamers" play easy video games to pass time. Games these days are designed so that virtually anyone can pickup the game and play..usually to its full extent. There is no hours of practice daily to become a gamer, there arent public classes and private lessons to become a gamer, and nobody goes to watch "gamers" perform in front of an audience. There are these things for progamers, but that's a different word.
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On December 15 2010 05:01 PaPaLung wrote:
To me the self title gamer states that the person spends the majority of their free time playing video games as opposed to other things like sports.
Yes but how often does an adult actually play sports? Whenever an adult mentions that they love sports, 9/10 times it is watching sports. Hell I actually play at least a league or two a year (usually softball) which is much more than most "sport fans."
Do folks who follow sports, or even play sports for recreation identify themselves on a personal level with said activities? Likely not, but it happens. Do I play video games? Of course, but video games aren't me in any more of a way that the dude sitting in front of the TV on game night is a part of him. Sure there are folks who have their identity firmly rooted as a "gamer," but most of the time that is an unhealthy level of personal identification. The 15 year old who played CoD for 9 hours a day on his xbox during the summer, the full time WoW raider/pvper, and the occasional mass gamer of SC2 probably fall into said category. "Professional" gamers obviously fall into a special category in that they are able to produce entertainment for the masses and "sell" that product.
Unfortunately that is one of the things that makes being a professional gamer so hard (or so I would assume, I obviously haven't done it). Making the jump from having fun to being top 100 in the world is ridiculous and requires a huge commitment and risks "wasting" valuable time you could have spent in a "productive" way-- thus the stigma of professional gaming. It's almost like being a poker pro in that if you make it everyone cheers for you, but if you fail society thinks you're scum.
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On December 15 2010 04:49 dignity wrote:
Going a bit more in depth into the gaming industry, there are games that actually appeal to both the casual and the hardcore. The most popular games in the world, like Sonic or even Mario. These games did something right, in the sense that the hardcore gamers would want to get every single coin and be the perfectionist that they are, while the casual gamers just wanted to go through the level without losing. These type of games prove that we are all just gamers, and we shouldn't disassociate ourselves from our own community.
I think that the day of which when gamers can truly be accepted by society would come only when we accept ourselves for who we are. It does not matter what game you play, or how well you play it, as long as you share the same love for games. There will be a day when gamers can talk to one another and say "Oh yeah I am a(n) FPS/RTS/RPG gamer".
I think the word "gamer" is too general.
For example, let's say someone says "I like to watch TV." Okay, cool.
Now then, someone else says "I like to watch Star Trek." or "I like to watch reality shows." or "I like to watch sports." They're all different people but there's probably some sort of backlash within each group towards another group.
Should they all drop it just to say that "We're all avid TV watchers."?
As for society's concern, I can freely state that I play games with no fear. But that's as interesting as saying I watch movies, collect things, play sports. It's not specific enough to be interesting at all. Generally if someone asks, I'll tell them specifically which games I play. It's a bit weird for them to be all lumped in into one genre of "gamer."
Even within a game, there's different kinds of players. If I told you I was a Starcraft player... "So... you play BGH? UMS? Fastest? Or are you like one of those Korean players?" And each group will have a different outlook on the other groups, whether it's positive or negative. Does that mean other gamers will look down on Starcraft gamers, because they aren't unified?
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On December 15 2010 07:28 Zelniq wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:19 Scorcher2k wrote:On December 15 2010 05:06 Chill wrote:On December 15 2010 05:03 Comeh wrote:On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into? Well, I think its sort of the same reason that someone that is a really big football player might consider himself a football player. The same can be said of many hobbies - people often define themselves on said hobbies. Because gaming is a hobby that usually takes up a lot of peoples' free time that they enjoy, it seems natural to describe themselves as "one who games", or easier "a gamer". I think being an athlete goes above and beyond a hobby. But you still see gamers define themselves by their hobby. I can't think of anyone else who does this besides gamers. It's a little strange. Dancers, musicians, and many other people definitely do define themselves as such. I think people want to define themselves as what they are passionate about. So what if you work whatever job, collect baseball cards, etc... You consider yourself a gamer because it is your passion just as the dancer, musician, etc would. On December 15 2010 05:17 Chairman Ray wrote:
I have a high disrespect for gamers, not because they spend most their time playing video games, but because they don't. Most self-proclaimed gamers aren't actual gamers. They are a regular person who happens to play COD for a few hours a week and believes that it's a real skill set. Playing video games isn't an occupation to them, it isn't even a hobby most of the time. It's just something they do to pass the time, and then they get back to their normal lives. 'Gamers' are an insult to real gamers. There are people who dedicate their existence to playing video games even non-professionally. These people do not usually call themselves gamers and I can see why. Personally, I am not a real gamer, and I am not a 'gamer' either. I am someone who plays video games for 8+ hours a day, and I will try to be a 'gamer' until the standard for being a gamer requires you to actually play video games. I have no idea wtf you just said... did you really just compare dancers and musicians to "gamers"? merriam-webster defines a gamer as : a person who plays games; especially : a person who regularly plays computer or video games the average people who call themselves "gamers" play easy video games to pass time. Games these days are designed so that virtually anyone can pickup the game and play..usually to its full extent. There is no hours of practice daily to become a gamer, there arent public classes and private lessons to become a gamer, and nobody goes to watch "gamers" perform in front of an audience. There are these things for progamers, but that's a different word.
Dancing and composing music can be done on an amateur level as well, without much practise and just as a time-passer (A hobby).
I really dont see the problem here. You're passionate about gaming -> Gamer.
You're passionate about dancing - > Dancer (Lets call professional dancers PROdancers)
You're passionate about collecting stuff -> collecter? Sure this isnt really used regulary, but I find it convenient that I can sum up my passion in a simple word, that still has a lot of weight to it when you explain it for someone.
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I think its more of a word thing, I mean if you asked some pro football player if he was a gamer, and he did play his xbox 360 once in a while he might say yes. Does this make him not a "real gamer" because he spends more time playing football. NO.
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Hyrule19026 Posts
I'm a gamer.
And a musician.
And a programmer.
And an editor.
And a reader.
And a writer.
And a cook.
And a scientist.
Why do I have to pick just one? There's negative stigmas attached to everything. Don't let it get to you. There's also different levels to everything. Why do we even need to argue about these this? Let's face it, if we're serious enough to be TL regulars, we're gamers, whether we use the term or not. This does not me we are only gamers.
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On December 15 2010 05:04 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2010 05:01 PaPaLung wrote:
To me the self title gamer states that the person spends the majority of their free time playing video games as opposed to other things like sports. That's my point. Everyone does something with the majority of their free time. You don't see groups of people discussing the ins and outsof being cast by society as "readers", "sewers", "TV watchers", "shoppers", "talkers", "cooks", etc. These are just normal people. Oh and they have a hobby.
That's because those things aren't ostracized in 'normal' society /culture.
A better example would be the homosexual community, or racial minorities. They are always running events and parades to show their self pride etc.
That being said, I still agree with your opinion on it. It's stupid for people to go around claiming things and making a fuss about what a label means, who's actually X label or not etc.
We even see these kind of disparages in the gamer community itself. There are casuals, girls, etc.
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On December 15 2010 04:59 Chill wrote:
Regarding your final paragraph: I find it strange that so many game-players define themselves personally as "gamers". I don't see triple-A hockey players going around calling themselves "hockey players" and defining their self-worth as it relates to being a hockey player.
Why can't you just be a guy? Oh and you also like games. But you like other stuff too. What's with this "gamer" box I see a lot of people trying to fit themselves into?
"I'm a homosexual" "I'm a Muslim" "I'm a mathematician" "I'm a guy" "I'm a Brazilian" "I'm a Red Wings fan" "I'm a gamer" I tried to get a wide range in there to make the point that even if someone says "I'm an X" they aren't just X, they could conceivably be everything I listed. I'm sure AAA hockey players go around calling themselves "hockey players" at clubs (and likely with emphasis on their high ability). I know scientists go around calling themselves scientists in contexts like "It is our job as scientists to educate the public about evolution", even if they are more things than scientists. It's no feasible to define new words to totally describe each individual, and it helps to be able to discriminate in the information you reveal when you say "I'm an X".
-e- Actually I've held your view in the past, but I've changed my mind while writing this response
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I think this thread's responses actually prove my point. Most of us here would consider ourselves hardcore gamers I assume and so we say that the people that play games occasionally as not being gamers. On the flip side, the casual gamers say that they are gamers but they are not like those hardcore gamers that spend most of their time playing games.
This point has been the whole basis of what I have been trying to say. I am not here to argue about labels and their stigmas, but rather how gamers view gamers and why it is bad to our growth in society.
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EPT
