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When does something become yours? - Page 2

Blogs > EtherealDeath
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Prev 1 2 All
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
November 21 2010 09:42 GMT
#21
asian roommate quabbling draws in like a black hole
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
November 21 2010 09:45 GMT
#22
On November 21 2010 18:41 Rekrul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2010 18:39 EtherealDeath wrote:
On November 21 2010 18:37 Rekrul wrote:
um, if for whatever reason everything had to be stopped and couldn't be played out in the future then yes your roommate is right, the guy should get 95% of that money, that would be the only fair thing to do

tournament director is merely acting as an escrow, he has 0 ownership


And what if we know 100% that it will be played out and someone will win?


it belongs to no one at the time, it is merely being held by TD who has responsibility

don't even know why this retarded question is getting a thread or im replying lol


You read poker and couldn't resist?

On November 21 2010 18:42 Bill Murray wrote:
asian roommate quabbling draws in like a black hole


I guess it was too obvious that my roommate is asian eh T_t
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
November 21 2010 09:46 GMT
#23
the thread has absolutely nothing to do with poker
why so 진지해?
xianglongfa
Profile Joined May 2010
United States13 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-21 09:50:00
November 21 2010 09:48 GMT
#24
It's funny how there's actually no practical significance to saying that the tournament director owns the money if the money is indeed guaranteed. (Unless we assume an informational advantage that could increase the inherent value of the current possession of the money by the tournament director) The money is dead to him.

If an insurance company operates on any low commission cost with respect to the amount of winnings, then the value of the prize money could theoretically be close enough to 95% anyways. I.e.: Your position can be exchanged with the insurance company for 9.4k in hard cash at that instant. Your opponent could exchange his position for some value close to 500 as well.

The definition of ownership as applied to something like money can only be related to the insured future spending power of that piece of paper if it is to have any significance at all. In this regard, we can always change the percentage chance of winning to being arbitrarily close to 100%, and still have the same fundamental argument. This value could theoretically match the nonzero probability of money disappearing from your wallet, or your account at your bank being deleted.
mmp
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2130 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-21 10:33:13
November 21 2010 10:26 GMT
#25
None of the above.

If the hand is disrupted for any reason, players return to their pre-hand wealth, as though the hand never happened. The fact that one player has a greater chance of winning doesn't preclude the opponent's chance to win it, so an expected-value breakdown is not fair outcome unless the winner has 100% chance. So in this regard the players have equal holding.

The tournament director owns no more than the proportion of the money that is paid to the house. Possession matters very little, nor does the notion that it is impossible to "own" something: there is an agreement among all agents what money and ownership represent, and chips are a measure of that ownership.

50%-50% among the players.

The intuition that the house does not own it is simple: No player would accept that the house owns 100% of their earnings in the case of some disruption mid-hand - they would demand back their pre-hand wealth. The house may serve as an arbitrator, but they are paid a small proportion for their honest service as an intermediary between players. If guns were entered into the experiment, then the likelihood of violence is an indicator that the house will not claim ownership.
I (λ (foo) (and (<3 foo) ( T_T foo) (RAGE foo) )) Starcraft
HwangjaeTerran
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Finland5967 Posts
November 21 2010 11:30 GMT
#26
No one. Sooner or later they'll play the round to the end.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/*tlusernamehere*/
Simplistik
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
2006 Posts
November 21 2010 11:44 GMT
#27
MONEY, n. A blessing that is of no advantage to us excepting when we part with it.
Dear BW Gods, I know it's not autumn (in the Northern hemisphere), but please have mercy on Protoss.
exeexe
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Denmark937 Posts
November 21 2010 11:44 GMT
#28
If you cant find an owner, then just give them to me kk. I know how to manhandle those crisps!!
And never forget, its always easier to throw a bomb downstairs than up. - George Orwell
BottleAbuser
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)1888 Posts
November 21 2010 13:18 GMT
#29
Why do we care? We'll know in 10 seconds.

But if we do care, then we can reasonably conclude it belongs at that moment to the organization that set up the tournament. They are planning (and probably contractually obligated) to give it to the winner of the hand as an incentive for future players of future tournaments.
Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you.
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19050 Posts
November 21 2010 13:42 GMT
#30
If, at any point, the Tournament Director "owns" the money, then the Tournament Director is corrupt and should be replaced and possibly jailed for theft. Prize money is owned by whoever pays in until they pay in. After that point it's merely held and secured by the tournament staff. After that, it belongs to the winner.
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
Kalingingsong
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada633 Posts
November 21 2010 15:00 GMT
#31
In legal terms there are actually 2 concepts here:

- who 'owns' the money
- who 'possesses' the money

It's not clear who owns it, there might have been a contract when you handed the money to the TD that indicates the status of the cash (so it really depends).

It IS pretty clear that the TD possesses (in legal terms) the money, which implies he has to exercise his duty to hand it off to the winner (unless there was a contract which stated otherwise).
Dess.JadeFalcon
MightyAtom
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Korea (South)1897 Posts
November 21 2010 18:10 GMT
#32
On November 21 2010 18:41 Rekrul wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2010 18:39 EtherealDeath wrote:
On November 21 2010 18:37 Rekrul wrote:
um, if for whatever reason everything had to be stopped and couldn't be played out in the future then yes your roommate is right, the guy should get 95% of that money, that would be the only fair thing to do

tournament director is merely acting as an escrow, he has 0 ownership


And what if we know 100% that it will be played out and someone will win?


it belongs to no one at the time, it is merely being held by TD who has responsibility

don't even know why this retarded question is getting a thread or im replying lol


+1
in this context of poker

David Jung Former Regional Director of Pokerstars

and Rek you replied because it's absolute madness why anyone could vote otherwise and you're stunned by the retardness



Administrator-I am the universe- Morihei Ueshiba
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