• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 17:25
CET 23:25
KST 07:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
[D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win
Tourneys
SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Rollback Netcode in Brood War SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Ziemie's Starcraft 1 Prequel Campaign 🇺🇦 Ukrainian StarCraft:BroodWar community reborn
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [$1250] International ShieldBattery League KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Deus Ex 3!? Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12778 users

Is Standard Play Safe? - Page 2

Blogs > Whiplash
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
November 19 2010 02:26 GMT
#21
The whole standard is safe vs cheesy risky play comes from BW. It doesn't apply to SC2 yet, but the perception is still there.
Hello
Wohmfg
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1292 Posts
November 19 2010 02:41 GMT
#22
On November 19 2010 10:52 SubtleArt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2010 09:36 Wohmfg wrote:
On November 19 2010 09:31 Nfi wrote:
On November 19 2010 09:26 JohannesH wrote:
On November 19 2010 09:25 paper wrote:
Isn't standard the safest play by definition?

>__>

Standard means standard, safe means safe. They're different things.

Well normally I would assume the more standard play would be the safer if not the safest play.


Nowadays, standard play prioritises strong economy over safeness. There are safer PvT openings than 12 nex and safer TvZ openings than 1 rax expand. They are both adequately safe, but definitely not the safest.


?
12 Nex isn't a standard opening by any means and 1 rax expand is extremely safe if you know what to scout for


It's very standard. I dunno, anyone want to back one of us up here?
BW4Life!
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
November 19 2010 02:43 GMT
#23
It seems that people will eventually find standard builds that safely beat most all-ins. This will take a lot of time. Then all-ins and cheese will only be effective using the element of surprise.

Currently, all-ins are effective because all of the game's timings aren't explored. Once they are, I'm sure this game will evolve to have longer games.
TrueRedemption
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States313 Posts
November 19 2010 02:50 GMT
#24
I think this all in style is quite important for the progression of the game, same as those who hold steadfast to a macro oriented approach. The simple fact is that no one is good enough yet to be confident on what is truly safe. We make predictions, have practice, etc, but because the game is so new small variations from the all in player can truly disrupt what a macro player believed to be safe, thus the all in wins.

No one will argue that having more income than your opponent is a bad thing, and that it will ultimately go a long way towards beating your opponent. To maintain that fine line of economy and army is the beauty of highest level brood war, but it took millions of games to help bring that fine line into focus. Thats where we are now, and will be for a while; chipping away bit by bit at this game, developing builds that both stretch our econ as far as possible while being safe given a certain level of micro.

If the all in players stopped, it'd become some hectic macro fest where players were unreasonably greedy and we would actually be getting further away from optimal play. Likewise if everyone was one-basing the game would stop developing. Fortunately players looking to get an edge always push against the crowd, the Ebb and Flow leading steadily towards optimal play.
Writer
ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
November 19 2010 03:54 GMT
#25
On November 19 2010 11:41 Wohmfg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2010 10:52 SubtleArt wrote:
On November 19 2010 09:36 Wohmfg wrote:
On November 19 2010 09:31 Nfi wrote:
On November 19 2010 09:26 JohannesH wrote:
On November 19 2010 09:25 paper wrote:
Isn't standard the safest play by definition?

>__>

Standard means standard, safe means safe. They're different things.

Well normally I would assume the more standard play would be the safer if not the safest play.


Nowadays, standard play prioritises strong economy over safeness. There are safer PvT openings than 12 nex and safer TvZ openings than 1 rax expand. They are both adequately safe, but definitely not the safest.


?
12 Nex isn't a standard opening by any means and 1 rax expand is extremely safe if you know what to scout for


It's very standard. I dunno, anyone want to back one of us up here?

I believe whether or not 11/12 nex is standard is wholly dependant on map.
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
November 19 2010 05:14 GMT
#26
Nice article, i dont think anything is safe right now. The game is too fresh and most games are due to bo loses.
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12h 35m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 119
EmSc Tv 19
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 8990
Shuttle 374
Shinee 35
LuMiX 1
Dota 2
PGG 165
League of Legends
Doublelift3573
JimRising 422
Counter-Strike
zeus564
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox82
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu629
Other Games
gofns7795
summit1g5742
Grubby2439
FrodaN838
shahzam420
PiGStarcraft297
C9.Mang0202
Fuzer 183
syndereN177
XaKoH 115
NeuroSwarm70
ViBE41
KnowMe32
ZombieGrub30
Railgan24
JuggernautJason19
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV171
Counter-Strike
PGL99
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 19
EmSc2Tv 19
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 18
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki45
• FirePhoenix14
• HerbMon 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV679
League of Legends
• Jankos3517
• Nemesis3361
• Scarra714
Other Games
• imaqtpie743
• Shiphtur238
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
12h 35m
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
IPSL
18h 35m
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
AI Arena Tournament
20h 35m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 12h
IPSL
1d 18h
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-05
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.