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On October 26 2010 04:38 avilo wrote:
This is going to be the easiest prediction ever, as well as slight rant.
I cannot see any race other than a Zerg like idra or fruitdealer winning GSL2. This is not a matter of "just play better and recognize your mistakes." Zerg is right now the strongest race (again) and I predict a ZvZ finals, with idra versus fruitdealer.
Or it could be any other two Zergs in the finals. Assuming somehow it is not a ZvZ final and some protoss or terran gimmicks their way to the finals, if the final is ZvT, Zerg absolutely is the winner of GSL2.
If it's a PvZ in the finals, it is a toss-up. And at this point in time, predicting a TvP finals is laughable.
The others simply stand no chance.
lol, both are eliminated. I'm pretty sure we are gonna see nada vs genius tvp final. and genius probably gonna win.
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On November 01 2010 06:37 frogmelter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 05:10 avilo wrote:On November 01 2010 02:41 TheAntZ wrote:On October 31 2010 05:03 avilo wrote:On October 31 2010 04:50 lastmotion wrote:On October 31 2010 03:40 avilo wrote:On October 31 2010 02:11 LeibSaiLeib wrote:why is this kind of bad thread with pointelss discussion still alive?  why does boxer agree with me? He also plays T. He has as much reason to be biased for his own race, if not more than you, because he has a career set on it. Even if the game is totally unbalanced, if you have a job dependent on it, anyone would definitely claim "the game is 100% balanced" for his own benefit. You don't have as strong as a reason to be as biased as Boxer but you're still human and selfish. I'm sure if T started out 2000 minerals while the other races started out with the usual 50, I wouldn't be surprised if you tried to justify it with the most ridiculous reasoning by saying that "T needs the MOST minerals because it's the LEAST cost efficient race!" or something like that lol, especially knowing what kind of stuff you've been spouting Seeing as how this thread isn't closed, Im starting to believe that the higher-ups in TL overlook their own no balance discussion rule if it happens to be a certain belief that they like hearing are you kidding me? get out. How about you actually reply and refute any of his points? Also stop saying 'boxer agrees with me so it must be true' Boxer isnt actually all that good, he had a way easier road to the ro8 then any other player currently there. On November 01 2010 02:09 Entropic wrote:On October 31 2010 22:41 We Are Here wrote:On October 31 2010 21:10 ooni wrote:
Guys... It's obvious NEXGenius is going to win.
Let's look at this,
Zerg was the most UP race (by people's voice)
Thus a Zerg legend was born
Now, Protoss is the most UP race (by people's voice)
Thus a Protoss legend will be born
Of course, there is no evidence supporting this and probably are a lot of evidence contrary to my hypothesis... but you know, let's see... the funny thing is, when zergs up zergs cry and when terrans up terrans cry. but you never see protoss crying, they truly are the manly race Rofl no. Protoss will never be the manly race. The only way Protoss is manly is when the player playing protoss bequeaths his manliness upon the protoss (ie. only Reach can make Protoss manly). There are no manly races in sc2 all eunuchs and bitches He's trying to claim boxer wants the game imbalanced or has some bias because boxer wants to win all the prize moneY...LOFL. My response was appropriate. He just tried to take a shit on the biggest e-sports legend ever, who probably has more money than he can even handle LMAO. Boxer is trying to influence the balance of the game because he wants to win money!!!! REALLY? LOL In response to boxer's easy road to ro8, you're absolutely right. He's gotten basically all TvTs... even I'd be able to make it to ro8 GSL with all TvTs. I don't think they purposely rigged the tourney like that, but yeah...if he'd run up against a bunch of Zerg's he'd have been out way earlier. Are you really claiming you could beat 3 pro gamers Bo3 in a row? Really? News flash. You can't.
That's usually the cue that traditional methods of discussion like "logic" and "reality" aren't going to apply here.
I don't see any Z making it to finals, think P will win, they are the strongest race according to a progamer(s)' interview.
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On November 01 2010 06:37 frogmelter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 05:10 avilo wrote:On November 01 2010 02:41 TheAntZ wrote:On October 31 2010 05:03 avilo wrote:On October 31 2010 04:50 lastmotion wrote:On October 31 2010 03:40 avilo wrote:On October 31 2010 02:11 LeibSaiLeib wrote:why is this kind of bad thread with pointelss discussion still alive? why does boxer agree with me? He also plays T. He has as much reason to be biased for his own race, if not more than you, because he has a career set on it. Even if the game is totally unbalanced, if you have a job dependent on it, anyone would definitely claim "the game is 100% balanced" for his own benefit. You don't have as strong as a reason to be as biased as Boxer but you're still human and selfish. I'm sure if T started out 2000 minerals while the other races started out with the usual 50, I wouldn't be surprised if you tried to justify it with the most ridiculous reasoning by saying that "T needs the MOST minerals because it's the LEAST cost efficient race!" or something like that lol, especially knowing what kind of stuff you've been spouting Seeing as how this thread isn't closed, Im starting to believe that the higher-ups in TL overlook their own no balance discussion rule if it happens to be a certain belief that they like hearing are you kidding me? get out. How about you actually reply and refute any of his points? Also stop saying 'boxer agrees with me so it must be true' Boxer isnt actually all that good, he had a way easier road to the ro8 then any other player currently there. On November 01 2010 02:09 Entropic wrote:On October 31 2010 22:41 We Are Here wrote:On October 31 2010 21:10 ooni wrote:
Guys... It's obvious NEXGenius is going to win.
Let's look at this,
Zerg was the most UP race (by people's voice)
Thus a Zerg legend was born
Now, Protoss is the most UP race (by people's voice)
Thus a Protoss legend will be born
Of course, there is no evidence supporting this and probably are a lot of evidence contrary to my hypothesis... but you know, let's see... the funny thing is, when zergs up zergs cry and when terrans up terrans cry. but you never see protoss crying, they truly are the manly race Rofl no. Protoss will never be the manly race. The only way Protoss is manly is when the player playing protoss bequeaths his manliness upon the protoss (ie. only Reach can make Protoss manly). There are no manly races in sc2 all eunuchs and bitches He's trying to claim boxer wants the game imbalanced or has some bias because boxer wants to win all the prize moneY...LOFL. My response was appropriate. He just tried to take a shit on the biggest e-sports legend ever, who probably has more money than he can even handle LMAO. Boxer is trying to influence the balance of the game because he wants to win money!!!! REALLY? LOL In response to boxer's easy road to ro8, you're absolutely right. He's gotten basically all TvTs... even I'd be able to make it to ro8 GSL with all TvTs. I don't think they purposely rigged the tourney like that, but yeah...if he'd run up against a bunch of Zerg's he'd have been out way earlier. Are you really claiming you could beat 3 pro gamers Bo3 in a row? Really? News flash. You can't.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exaggeration
Also, during beta when servers were not split I did.
Anyways, that's not the point. I was trying to point out that what theantz said could be somewhat true...that boxer isn't that great at SC2 yet, but he was lucky to get a lot of TvT that he is very good at and would also by getting lots of TvT he would not have to deal with any imba stuff since...it's TvT.
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Exaggeration is terrible for debating. It really weakens your arguments, especially online where there is no tone and people really have no way of telling if you're exaggeration without assuming.
And while you might have done it a while ago, beta is a long time ago. The skill gap for pros and top diamond have widened quite a bit.
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I think tonight is the night to watch GSL.
IntotheRainbow is known for his TvP and NEXGenius murdered Loner PvT at Blizzcon.
I wouldn't underestimate ITR to be honest, he is an absolute beast. And honestly it is going to be a clash of play-styles. ITR loves to fast expand and play a macro game, whereas NEXGenius is very aggressive PvT, usually opting for an expansion a lot later. It really depends on how ITR defends the first few attacks. But I'm not sure, Genius did do some unique FE build(s) verse Loner at Blizzcon, although only one comes to mind.
Btw I wouldn't argue with the OP the clearly isn't reading anyone's posts but his own.
Anyone who thinks their opinion is weighted as fact against pages and pages of statistics isn't worth arguing with.
Apparently it is too hard for some people to fathom that you can actually form conclusions with data you are given.
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I don't understand why T's don't macro up more.
When i roll T, I end up FEing. Zergs can drone up faster, but T actually has an econ advantage on the same amount of bases because mules are amazing. Try to deny the third, thor,tank,marine push.
I'm not gosu or anything, and maybe it only works cause I play random... but it def works against 1200-1400 diamond players.
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With Boxer in this = no way!!
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avilo stop crying and man up. You said idra or cool would win GSL2??? they both got eliminated( cool lost to a terran). Just because your race gets nerfed once in a while doesn't mean you have to cry like a lil girl on TL forums. And zergs don't balance things its Blizzard who does that.
Don't like your race? change to zerg then.
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The only problem with TvZ is that terran players have been spoiled rotten for the last two months, and now suddenly have to play a fair game.
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And reapers...have been effectively removed from the game.
I am really curious how Terrans will start to use them again.
Since pure Reaper all ins are eliminated, the only use left is to combine them with other forces.
I was wondering how viable would it be to make very few Reapers mainly to scout and distract and later "recycle" them by researching their speed upgrade some time after Factory is done.
It's 50/50/100s after all.
I think they may be a good addition to Hellion drops - recent GSL games are showing how hard it is to kill workers with Hellions alone when defender can spread his workers well.
Reapers can finnish off drones and probes damaged by blue flames:
24(blue flame) + 18(1 shot from a Reaper) = 42(dead Drone/Probe)
They don't take Medivac's cargo space. They can be healed by Medivac which is not going to use it's energy on anything soon, possibly making them more durable than Hellions.
BTW Hellions themselves are so underused, why no one is trying to kite lings at all?
Single Thor and a bunch of Marines can handle a lot of mutas, there are minerals to spare on Hellions IMO.
A lot of whine comes down to so many Ts being completely, utterly, incapable of any sort of harassment in the late game too, again, in my opinion.
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It is safe to say that Terran has a huge chance to win GSL this season.
Nice speculation OP, unfortunate your opinion didn't hold.
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Well after tonight's games It looks like....
+ Show Spoiler +
Zenio or Zergbong are the OP's last hope for credibility - with Rainbow and FakeBoxer going through there will be at least 1 T in the finals, with TvT a strong possibility.
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On October 28 2010 05:00 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 04:55 teamsolid wrote:
Typical fail whiner blog, just look at GSL2 and learn to play aggressively. ZOMG fruitdealer lost!!1111!!! Still going to be two zergs in the finals. And that doesn't invalidate how strong Z is vs T right now. And statistics don't mean jack shit when it comes to balance. Hilarious, you kids post ur smartass bullshit "omg fruitdealer lost!" but then if people last patch post "fruitdealer won GSL...he's a Zerg" you wouldn't be so quick to post your non witty comments. Instead you go, "that doesn't mean anything!" so stfu hypocrits  just wait zvz finals!
I'm curious - what are you going to say now? Arguably the best zergs - idra and fruitdealer, have been eliminated. At best, only one zerg can possibly make it to the finals. So here are your options..
1) Keep ignoring everyone else posting and hope that either zenio or zergbong wins the finals. If one of them does you can be like "HAHAHA I WAS RIGHT ZERG OP NERF PLZ" even though the semis will have included three terran players and only one zerg player, If a terran wins, you either stop responding to the thread and hopes everyone forgets about it (we won't, lol), or go to option 2 or 3.
2) State that you should have been right, but a few chancy irregularities caused you to be wrong. "WELL IF ONLY IDRA HAD WON ZvZ HE WOULD HAVE WON GSL AND I WOULD BE RIGHT" This would be really funny, and would make you look even better (read: worse) than you already do.
3) Man up, admit that your opinion is wrong and there are players who understand the game and the TvZ matchup better than you do. Realize that the game might be balanced after all - at least certainly more balanced than you make it out to be. In other words, take your own advice (it is good advice) and qq less
On September 09 2010 09:47 avilo wrote:
solution: play the game it is and get better at it.
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On November 02 2010 01:48 getSome[703] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2010 05:00 avilo wrote:On October 28 2010 04:55 teamsolid wrote:
Typical fail whiner blog, just look at GSL2 and learn to play aggressively. ZOMG fruitdealer lost!!1111!!! Still going to be two zergs in the finals. And that doesn't invalidate how strong Z is vs T right now. And statistics don't mean jack shit when it comes to balance. Hilarious, you kids post ur smartass bullshit "omg fruitdealer lost!" but then if people last patch post "fruitdealer won GSL...he's a Zerg" you wouldn't be so quick to post your non witty comments. Instead you go, "that doesn't mean anything!" so stfu hypocrits just wait zvz finals! I'm curious - what are you going to say now? Arguably the best zergs - idra and fruitdealer, have been eliminated. At best, only one zerg can possibly make it to the finals. So here are your options.. 1) Keep ignoring everyone else posting and hope that either zenio or zergbong wins the finals. If one of them does you can be like "HAHAHA I WAS RIGHT ZERG OP NERF PLZ" even though the semis will have included three terran players and only one zerg player, If a terran wins, you either stop responding to the thread and hopes everyone forgets about it (we won't, lol), or go to option 2 or 3. 2) State that you should have been right, but a few chancy irregularities caused you to be wrong. "WELL IF ONLY IDRA HAD WON ZvZ HE WOULD HAVE WON GSL AND I WOULD BE RIGHT" This would be really funny, and would make you look even better (read: worse) than you already do. 3) Man up, admit that your opinion is wrong and there are players who understand the game and the TvZ matchup better than you do. Realize that the game might be balanced after all - at least certainly more balanced than you make it out to be. In other words, take your own advice (it is good advice) and qq less Show nested quote +On September 09 2010 09:47 avilo wrote:
solution: play the game it is and get better at it.
Idra played a ZvZ. Fruitdealer...facepalm games.
I don't think i've ignored anyone, and it doesn't change the balance situation, just like a Zerg winning GSL1 didn't change the fact Zerg was underpowered.
Eh...I'm not afraid to admit many of my predictions were wrong (obviously). I honestly do not see how foxer beat fruitdealer, and then now has beat zyrix. Well, actually I could see him beating zyrix cause zyrix makes horrible decisions. Mass marines..."hey, i won't build infestors!" lol.
And...well, not much to say. Look at how the slayersboxer got to the semi-finals. Virtually all TvT. He's secretly smiling right now because he miraculously managed to avoid all the good Zergs. And he may even get a TvT finals now if the last Zerg guy plays bad too (assuming he beats nada).
In response to 3...lol. I never said that I wasn't wrong about many of the predictions so far. You like many others love to attack someone when they do happen to be wrong, I already admitted I was wrong on many predictions. But once again, just because a Terran right now has a good possibility of winning GSL does not mean TvZ is balanced. Just like season 1, zerg was underpowered, but Fruitdealer won GSL because intotherainbow played like total trash.
Also, for people crying at me to look at statistics of this GSL...go look at them yourself. They actually support my arguments. There were more Terran players than others in GSL2, and lots of Terrans made ro8/semis...who would have thought!
Now go look at ZvT/TvZ statistics in GSL2. It's heavily in favor of Zerg the last time I checked (not including foxer's recent win).
Just because a lot of my predictions were wrong does not mean my balance analysis is wrong
Anyways, there's 1 last Zerg, so my prediction isn't totally blown yet  TvZ finals gogogo lol!
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Eh...I'm not afraid to admit many of my predictions were wrong (obviously). I honestly do not see how foxer beat fruitdealer, and then now has beat zyrix. Well, actually I could see him beating zyrix cause zyrix makes horrible decisions. Mass marines..."hey, i won't build infestors!" lol.
And even if a zerg won the GSL, you could turn this argument right around and say it was due to the poor play of T.
So I'm not sure where you're going with this argument--it makes you seem desperate.
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On November 02 2010 05:24 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 01:48 getSome[703] wrote:On October 28 2010 05:00 avilo wrote:On October 28 2010 04:55 teamsolid wrote:
Typical fail whiner blog, just look at GSL2 and learn to play aggressively. ZOMG fruitdealer lost!!1111!!! Still going to be two zergs in the finals. And that doesn't invalidate how strong Z is vs T right now. And statistics don't mean jack shit when it comes to balance. Hilarious, you kids post ur smartass bullshit "omg fruitdealer lost!" but then if people last patch post "fruitdealer won GSL...he's a Zerg" you wouldn't be so quick to post your non witty comments. Instead you go, "that doesn't mean anything!" so stfu hypocrits just wait zvz finals! I'm curious - what are you going to say now? Arguably the best zergs - idra and fruitdealer, have been eliminated. At best, only one zerg can possibly make it to the finals. So here are your options.. 1) Keep ignoring everyone else posting and hope that either zenio or zergbong wins the finals. If one of them does you can be like "HAHAHA I WAS RIGHT ZERG OP NERF PLZ" even though the semis will have included three terran players and only one zerg player, If a terran wins, you either stop responding to the thread and hopes everyone forgets about it (we won't, lol), or go to option 2 or 3. 2) State that you should have been right, but a few chancy irregularities caused you to be wrong. "WELL IF ONLY IDRA HAD WON ZvZ HE WOULD HAVE WON GSL AND I WOULD BE RIGHT" This would be really funny, and would make you look even better (read: worse) than you already do. 3) Man up, admit that your opinion is wrong and there are players who understand the game and the TvZ matchup better than you do. Realize that the game might be balanced after all - at least certainly more balanced than you make it out to be. In other words, take your own advice (it is good advice) and qq less On September 09 2010 09:47 avilo wrote:
solution: play the game it is and get better at it. Idra played a ZvZ. Fruitdealer...facepalm games. I don't think i've ignored anyone, and it doesn't change the balance situation, just like a Zerg winning GSL1 didn't change the fact Zerg was underpowered. Eh...I'm not afraid to admit many of my predictions were wrong (obviously). I honestly do not see how foxer beat fruitdealer, and then now has beat zyrix. Well, actually I could see him beating zyrix cause zyrix makes horrible decisions. Mass marines..."hey, i won't build infestors!" lol. And...well, not much to say. Look at how the slayersboxer got to the semi-finals. Virtually all TvT. He's secretly smiling right now because he miraculously managed to avoid all the good Zergs. And he may even get a TvT finals now if the last Zerg guy plays bad too (assuming he beats nada). In response to 3...lol. I never said that I wasn't wrong about many of the predictions so far. You like many others love to attack someone when they do happen to be wrong, I already admitted I was wrong on many predictions. But once again, just because a Terran right now has a good possibility of winning GSL does not mean TvZ is balanced. Just like season 1, zerg was underpowered, but Fruitdealer won GSL because intotherainbow played like total trash. Also, for people crying at me to look at statistics of this GSL...go look at them yourself. They actually support my arguments. There were more Terran players than others in GSL2, and lots of Terrans made ro8/semis...who would have thought! Now go look at ZvT/TvZ statistics in GSL2. It's heavily in favor of Zerg the last time I checked (not including foxer's recent win). Just because a lot of my predictions were wrong does not mean my balance analysis is wrong Anyways, there's 1 last Zerg, so my prediction isn't totally blown yet TvZ finals gogogo lol!
The thing I've noticed is that early in the tournament, Zerg's were winning handily... But this was also only days after 1.1.2.
Since then the game has evolved a great deal, and the TvZ's we've seen since then have been exciting, great games, and the Terrans that have won have done so handily.
You can't facepalm at Foxer's defeat of FruitDealer. It was absolute domination.
I think the TvZ matchup is in a really good place right now, and as a Zerg player, have been losing far more to Terrans than to Toss.
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On November 02 2010 05:24 avilo wrote:Just because a lot of my predictions were wrong does not mean my balance analysis is wrong
Actually yes, you are wrong. The only players who agree with you are other whiny Terrans who don't know how to adapt.
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On November 02 2010 09:20 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2010 05:24 avilo wrote:Just because a lot of my predictions were wrong does not mean my balance analysis is wrong Actually yes, you are wrong. The only players who agree with you are other whiny Terrans who don't know how to adapt.
Agreed.
Avilo has always been this way I am surprised he's getting so much attention. Look at all his previous posts even in live report threads he cry's about tvz imbalance because he doesn't know how to play the match up. Sorry you can't stay on 2 base, turtle and then win. Doesn't work that way anymore.
Avilo is a hypocrite as when terran was considered OP and zergs were crying he would say things like "zergs don't know how to play" "zergs just need to start doing this, this and this and not suck". Oh hypocrite at its best.
Honestly Fake boxer vs Kryxx is a great example he went pure marine the first game and still won. Now people are saying Fungle growth if he saw the infestors and spread his marines the fungel would get like 4 by the time it gest there (watch Nada on xelnaga he see's banelings/infestor and spreads his marines so godlike that fungle only got 4 marines rofl).
Also with the amount of aggression that fake boxer did in g1 there really wasn't an opportunity to make an infestation pit, make infestors + banelings and not die or get dealt a lot of damage. Here are some things to note in the game as fake boxer was being aggressive ALL game. If zerg had made an infestation pit + infestor (thats like 300 gas I believe) awesome he has less banelings (and assuming he didn't somehow die to not having the amount of banelings he needed to keep holding off) he still has to wait for the infestor to get that 25 energy for fungel growth.
If zerg had gotten infestors in that game 1 I am pretty confident he would have lost sooner or been dealt so much damage before infestors got the energy for fungel growth that it would have only delayed the inevitable.
Also to say one more thing I am positive the winner of Boxer vs Nada (I think Nada) will win GSL and finals will be TvT of Nada vs Fake boxer (possibly Rainbow)
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What Blade says above is confirmed by FoxeR himself in a post game interview
Q. KyrixZenith never used infestor against you.
A. If the zerg went infestors, they tended to be overwhelmed by my aggression during practice. He definitely made the right choice of not making infestors I think.
full transcript
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=165570
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EPT
