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To the mods, I'm very sorry for making two blogposts in one day, but I think I have good reason for them.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5601286
Michael Vick was my hero. When I first got into football and started to understand it, I just fell in love with Michael Vick. It had a lot to do with the fact that he was from Virginia Tech. I live in this college area(but don't attend as im still in high school) and VT has been one of the top 10 college football programs in the nation. Now, about ten years ago, this wasn't the case. Tech was perenially bad, until Vick came along. He led Virginia Tech to its first National Championship title game, but lost in a close game to Florida State after leading in the 3rd quarter. After that, the college started getting some really high recruits, and one year landed the top recruit, Kevin Jones in the nation. You know why? He said he came because of Vick and even wore Vick's jersey number 7 during his career at Tech. After such success in college, he left after playing for only two years, as he became the number 1 pick in the NFL draft after his redshirt sophomore year.
The Atlanta Falcons made a deal with the Chargers to get the Number 1 draft pick, and chose Vick. His first five years had some highs and lows. He beat the Packers, then led by Brett Favre in the playoffs at Lambeau Field. 2 years later, he led the Falcons to the NFC Championship game. He then became the highest paid player in the history of the league, receiving a 10 year 130 million dollar contract. However, despite a promising start, he and the Falcons missed the playoffs the next 2 years.
During the offseason, he got into some trouble. First, he was caught for hiding weed in his water bottle at an airport. This was a big deal, but it wouldn't compare to what he had been doing. Apparently, he and his friends had been running a dog-fighting chain. His friends had been killing and electrocuting and doing all sorts of despicable stuff to dogs that wouldn't fight. This ended up landing him 18 months in prison.
By this time, his future looked grim. He was going to be out of shape when he came back from jail, and he was never a very accurate quarterback in the NFL. The Eagles did end up signing him, and he played backup for Donovan McNabb, and Kevin Kolb. However, this was a major step for Vick, as he did get some playing time in the wildcat formation, and played well in limited time. In his second year, the Eagles traded McNabb, and made Kolb their starter. In the first game, Kolb got a concussion after only getting his team to score 3 points in the first half. The Eagles were down 20-3 at this point. Vick came in for the injured Kolb, and played like he did when he was with the Falcons and almost led his team to a comeback in a 27-20 loss. The next week, Kolb was not cleared to play, and Vick started again. He led his team to a win, and in his two games, he had a 63% completion percentage, threw for 3 touchdowns, no interceptions, and ran for 140 yards. Despite this, Kolb was supposed to be the starter after he got over his concussion. He was cleared to play a few days ago. However, the Eagles coach said that Vick was playing out of his mind right now, and decided to start him.
And this is where we stand. My favorite football player, is getting to start again. You have no idea how devastated I was when I heard he would go to jail for dog-fighting. Without him, I basically lost all interest in the NFL, and only paid attention to college football.
Now, I do not condone dog-fighting in anyway, but I do believe in second chances, and Vick served his time, and now is getting his second chance. I hope Vick uses it well.
Michael Vick is a starting NFL quarterback again. FUCK YEAH!!!
I hope Vick gets back from his injury soon. I think its pretty clear that Kolb can't be the starting quarterback for the Eagles as he is just simply not as good as Vick. I'm really glad the injury is only for about 1-2 weeks. He really should start taking slides and stuff instead of getting hit like he did against Washington
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As an Atlanta native, I say this with only the most genuine intentions.
Fuck Michael Vick. Fuck that quitter who sat on the sidelines because his finger was hurt. Fuck that douche bag who felt it necessary to give the finger to his hometown fans. Fuck that dog killing joke of a human being who dodged our justice system because he was a celebrity.
Enjoy it while it lasts, Vick. Scrubs like you have a true knack for pissing away great opportunities.
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On September 22 2010 12:28 MrBitter wrote: As an Atlanta native, I say this with only the most genuine intentions.
Fuck Michael Vick. Fuck that quitter who sat on the sidelines because his finger was hurt. Fuck that douche bag who felt it necessary to give the finger to his hometown fans. Fuck that dog killing joke of a human being who dodged our justice system because he was a celebrity.
Enjoy it while it lasts, Vick. Scrubs like you have a true knack for pissing away great opportunities. First of all, Vick did not dodge the justice system. He served 18 months, which is not the minimum, but near the maximum of what he could have served. And remember where you guys were without Vick. Now, I'm still an Atlanta Falcons fan, and I really like Matt Ryan's play. I sincerely hope they do well. But i don't think its ok to just attack Vick like this. You guys only had 1 bad season, and then you guys go Matt Ryan and you guys are doing well again. But I do agree that Vick should never have flicked off his own fans
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On September 22 2010 12:28 MrBitter wrote: As an Atlanta native, I say this with only the most genuine intentions.
Fuck Michael Vick. Fuck that quitter who sat on the sidelines because his finger was hurt. Fuck that douche bag who felt it necessary to give the finger to his hometown fans. Fuck that dog killing joke of a human being who dodged our justice system because he was a celebrity.
Enjoy it while it lasts, Vick. Scrubs like you have a true knack for pissing away great opportunities. As an Atlanta native, I echo pretty much everything he just said. Fuck Michael Vick.
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Hmmm, I bet the dogs he tortured and killed would've liked some second chances as well.
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United States7481 Posts
guess who drafted him in the last round of my fantasy draft?
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On September 22 2010 12:38 Bac wrote: Hmmm, I bet the dogs he tortured and killed would've liked some second chances as well.
for some reason i read this in Morgan Freemans voice
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I can't stand Michael Vick. My friend used to always play him in Madden so cheaply always running and I could do nothing to stop it.
Uh . . . yeah . . . cruelty to dogs is wrong too I guess.
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Sorry, 18 months might make up for his crimes in the Justice system's eyes, but the terrible crimes he committed go against any and all reasonable moral boundaries. He is, put softly, a worthless sack of shit who deserves to be treated the same way he treated those 30-odd dogs they dug out of his backyard.
Second chances are great, people make mistakes. What happens to the dogs when they lose, though? Do they get second chances, did they do anything wrong? No, and it sickens me to think that people are already letting go of what he did because...he's good at Football.
I'm not sure how to tie up this rant so I guess...have fun with your quarterback? I can only hope he and everyone like him suffer just as much as the dogs he tortured and killed did. FUCK YEAH!!!
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Guys, you know what I just realized? People in the usa care more about dogs than people. Everyone here talked about how the dogs don't get second chances, but what about those people that were murdered. And oh yeah, the dogs that survived to go to the animal resources center. I mean, Donte Stallworth killed a PERSON by DUI. He got 1 month in jail. And Stallworth still plays. If a murderer can get a second chance, why can't vick. And it was not all vick that was doing this, it was mostly his bad friends that used the house under his name
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On September 22 2010 12:37 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 12:28 MrBitter wrote: As an Atlanta native, I say this with only the most genuine intentions.
Fuck Michael Vick. Fuck that quitter who sat on the sidelines because his finger was hurt. Fuck that douche bag who felt it necessary to give the finger to his hometown fans. Fuck that dog killing joke of a human being who dodged our justice system because he was a celebrity.
Enjoy it while it lasts, Vick. Scrubs like you have a true knack for pissing away great opportunities. As an Atlanta native, I echo pretty much everything he just said. Fuck Michael Vick.
yea me too
I like how cheating/throwing a game will usually get you kicked out of an association, but even with this bullshit he can come back and keep making way too much money?
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On September 22 2010 12:51 Tazza wrote: Guys, you know what I just realized? People in the usa care more about dogs than people. Everyone here talked about how the dogs don't get second chances, but what about those people that were murdered. And oh yeah, the dogs that survived to go to the animal resources center. I mean, Donte Stallworth killed a PERSON by DUI. He got 1 month in jail. And Stallworth still plays. If a murderer can get a second chance, why can't vick. And it was not all vick that was doing this, it was mostly his bad friends that used the house under his name I for one don't care about dogs more than people. But that doesn't mean I have to like Michael Vick.
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On September 22 2010 12:57 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 12:51 Tazza wrote: Guys, you know what I just realized? People in the usa care more about dogs than people. Everyone here talked about how the dogs don't get second chances, but what about those people that were murdered. And oh yeah, the dogs that survived to go to the animal resources center. I mean, Donte Stallworth killed a PERSON by DUI. He got 1 month in jail. And Stallworth still plays. If a murderer can get a second chance, why can't vick. And it was not all vick that was doing this, it was mostly his bad friends that used the house under his name I for one don't care about dogs more than people. But that doesn't mean I have to like Michael Vick.
yea i actually haven't heard of that story at all (I dont really follow football at all) but that sounds like bullshit too lol
god i hate special treatment of celebrities -_-
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On September 22 2010 12:51 Tazza wrote: Guys, you know what I just realized? People in the usa care more about dogs than people. Everyone here talked about how the dogs don't get second chances, but what about those people that were murdered. And oh yeah, the dogs that survived to go to the animal resources center. I mean, Donte Stallworth killed a PERSON by DUI. He got 1 month in jail. And Stallworth still plays. If a murderer can get a second chance, why can't vick. And it was not all vick that was doing this, it was mostly his bad friends that used the house under his name If Vick killed a dog by DUI, he would've been punished less than Stallworth. If Vick tortured and killed humans instead of dogs in his backyard, the he would have been punished more than he was. So your argument that people in the U.S. care more about dogs than people is wrong.
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On September 22 2010 12:57 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 12:51 Tazza wrote: Guys, you know what I just realized? People in the usa care more about dogs than people. Everyone here talked about how the dogs don't get second chances, but what about those people that were murdered. And oh yeah, the dogs that survived to go to the animal resources center. I mean, Donte Stallworth killed a PERSON by DUI. He got 1 month in jail. And Stallworth still plays. If a murderer can get a second chance, why can't vick. And it was not all vick that was doing this, it was mostly his bad friends that used the house under his name I for one don't care about dogs more than people. But that doesn't mean I have to like Michael Vick. No one has to like him, but I find it sort of bizarre how much people care about Michael Vick and what he did, and yet Donte Stallworth can kill someone and only spend 30 days in jail. Stallworth used the "star" treatment, while Vick did not
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On September 22 2010 12:38 Bac wrote: Hmmm, I bet the dogs he tortured and killed would've liked some second chances as well.
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On September 22 2010 12:59 Slow Motion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 12:51 Tazza wrote: Guys, you know what I just realized? People in the usa care more about dogs than people. Everyone here talked about how the dogs don't get second chances, but what about those people that were murdered. And oh yeah, the dogs that survived to go to the animal resources center. I mean, Donte Stallworth killed a PERSON by DUI. He got 1 month in jail. And Stallworth still plays. If a murderer can get a second chance, why can't vick. And it was not all vick that was doing this, it was mostly his bad friends that used the house under his name If Vick killed a dog by DUI, he would've been punished less than Stallworth. If Vick tortured and killed humans instead of dogs in his backyard, the he would have been punished more than he was. So your argument that people in the U.S. care more about dogs than people is wrong. Yeah, but Stallworth killed another human being. And as i said, it wasn't vick as so much as it was his friends. And who's fault is it that Stallworth was drunk, and was driving. He shouldn't have been doing that, but he did, and he killed a person. I still find it amazing how vick got 18 times the harsher penalty. For example, for voluntary manslaughter, the sentence is by fine, jail time, or both, but the jail time cannot go over 10 years. Involuntary murder is the same, but cannot go over 6 years. 6 years vs 10 years is not even double, much less 18x more. Right now I have got to go to bed, its midnight here, but when I get back from school tomorrow at 3, I would like to discuss more of this with you guys
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On September 22 2010 13:05 Tazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 12:59 Slow Motion wrote:On September 22 2010 12:51 Tazza wrote: Guys, you know what I just realized? People in the usa care more about dogs than people. Everyone here talked about how the dogs don't get second chances, but what about those people that were murdered. And oh yeah, the dogs that survived to go to the animal resources center. I mean, Donte Stallworth killed a PERSON by DUI. He got 1 month in jail. And Stallworth still plays. If a murderer can get a second chance, why can't vick. And it was not all vick that was doing this, it was mostly his bad friends that used the house under his name If Vick killed a dog by DUI, he would've been punished less than Stallworth. If Vick tortured and killed humans instead of dogs in his backyard, the he would have been punished more than he was. So your argument that people in the U.S. care more about dogs than people is wrong. Yeah, but Stallworth killed another human being. And as i said, it wasn't vick as so much as it was his friends. And who's fault is it that Stallworth was drunk, and was driving. He shouldn't have been doing that, but he did, and he killed a person. I still find it amazing how vick got 18 times the harsher penalty. For example, for voluntary manslaughter, the sentence is by fine, jail time, or both, but the jail time cannot go over 10 years. Involuntary murder is the same, but cannot go over 6 years. 6 years vs 10 years is not even double, much less 18x more. Right now I have got to go to bed, its midnight here, but when I get back from school tomorrow at 3, I would like to discuss more of this with you guys
I'm sorry, but no amount of jail time can serve as atonement. I don't agree that those who murder humans be treated any more leniently than those who murder and torture dogs. In fact, I think the penalty should be steeper for the former.
Just because somebody else got off easy does not make it OK to murder. Also, I don't think it being "mostly" his friends really serves as a valid defense...
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Go Eagles! Everyone deserves a second chance.
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On September 22 2010 12:59 Tazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 12:57 Sentenal wrote:On September 22 2010 12:51 Tazza wrote: Guys, you know what I just realized? People in the usa care more about dogs than people. Everyone here talked about how the dogs don't get second chances, but what about those people that were murdered. And oh yeah, the dogs that survived to go to the animal resources center. I mean, Donte Stallworth killed a PERSON by DUI. He got 1 month in jail. And Stallworth still plays. If a murderer can get a second chance, why can't vick. And it was not all vick that was doing this, it was mostly his bad friends that used the house under his name I for one don't care about dogs more than people. But that doesn't mean I have to like Michael Vick. No one has to like him, but I find it sort of bizarre how much people care about Michael Vick and what he did, and yet Donte Stallworth can kill someone and only spend 30 days in jail. Stallworth used the "star" treatment, while Vick did not Who says people like Donte Stallworth? Its possible people can dislike them both.
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On September 22 2010 12:28 MrBitter wrote: As an Atlanta native, I say this with only the most genuine intentions.
Fuck Michael Vick. Fuck that quitter who sat on the sidelines because his finger was hurt. Fuck that douche bag who felt it necessary to give the finger to his hometown fans. Fuck that dog killing joke of a human being who dodged our justice system because he was a celebrity.
Enjoy it while it lasts, Vick. Scrubs like you have a true knack for pissing away great opportunities.
He's definitely not a scrub. Made some bad choices at one point in his life but I'm sure he regrets his actions.
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Osaka26966 Posts
On September 22 2010 13:05 Tazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 12:59 Slow Motion wrote:On September 22 2010 12:51 Tazza wrote: Guys, you know what I just realized? People in the usa care more about dogs than people. Everyone here talked about how the dogs don't get second chances, but what about those people that were murdered. And oh yeah, the dogs that survived to go to the animal resources center. I mean, Donte Stallworth killed a PERSON by DUI. He got 1 month in jail. And Stallworth still plays. If a murderer can get a second chance, why can't vick. And it was not all vick that was doing this, it was mostly his bad friends that used the house under his name If Vick killed a dog by DUI, he would've been punished less than Stallworth. If Vick tortured and killed humans instead of dogs in his backyard, the he would have been punished more than he was. So your argument that people in the U.S. care more about dogs than people is wrong. Yeah, but Stallworth killed another human being. And as i said, it wasn't vick as so much as it was his friends. And who's fault is it that Stallworth was drunk, and was driving. He shouldn't have been doing that, but he did, and he killed a person. I still find it amazing how vick got 18 times the harsher penalty. For example, for voluntary manslaughter, the sentence is by fine, jail time, or both, but the jail time cannot go over 10 years. Involuntary murder is the same, but cannot go over 6 years. 6 years vs 10 years is not even double, much less 18x more. Right now I have got to go to bed, its midnight here, but when I get back from school tomorrow at 3, I would like to discuss more of this with you guys
Sorry, but using the Donte Stallworth situation to compare is terrible because that too was a complete travesty. The family of the victim was very active in getting restitution over jail time, and it worked. But comparing vicks situation to another situation that was a total joke does nothing for his case.
I am not so against the amount of time he served, but don't give us the whole "it was his friends" crap. Michael Vick bankrolled the whole operation, and his friends were a bunch of leech gangster thugs that sucked off his tit. That was just one of a hundred shitty things he did with his guaranteed money, which is why he had to declare bankruptcy.
Vick got his second chance, and I hope he gives more than lip service to his supposed changes.
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Osaka26966 Posts
On September 22 2010 13:17 Dr3w wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 12:28 MrBitter wrote: As an Atlanta native, I say this with only the most genuine intentions.
Fuck Michael Vick. Fuck that quitter who sat on the sidelines because his finger was hurt. Fuck that douche bag who felt it necessary to give the finger to his hometown fans. Fuck that dog killing joke of a human being who dodged our justice system because he was a celebrity.
Enjoy it while it lasts, Vick. Scrubs like you have a true knack for pissing away great opportunities. He's definitely not a scrub. Made some bad choices at one point in his life but I'm sure he regrets his actions.
If he does regret his actions, rather than regret getting caught, he would surely be unique amongst his NFL peers. Just ask Braylon Edwards.
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go michael vick! he deserves a second chance. im glad hes having success with the eagles this year
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On September 22 2010 12:46 Whiladan wrote: Sorry, 18 months might make up for his crimes in the Justice system's eyes, but the terrible crimes he committed go against any and all reasonable moral boundaries. He is, put softly, a worthless sack of shit who deserves to be treated the same way he treated those 30-odd dogs they dug out of his backyard.
Second chances are great, people make mistakes. What happens to the dogs when they lose, though? Do they get second chances, did they do anything wrong? No, and it sickens me to think that people are already letting go of what he did because...he's good at Football.
I'm not sure how to tie up this rant so I guess...have fun with your quarterback? I can only hope he and everyone like him suffer just as much as the dogs he tortured and killed did. FUCK YEAH!!!
dude they are just fucking dogs its not like he killed ppl the fucker serves 18 months for dog fighting but donte stallworth who killed a fucking person gets 30 days. he served his time and paid his dues second chances are what this country is about, otherwise go to fucking china or something.
User was temp banned for this post.
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i cant understand animal rights. they are just fucking animals, lower on the ecosystem. we eat our horribly abused chickens, or cows who don't move but OH NO, A DOG WAS ABUSED!!!!
its kind of disgusting how bad it has gotten. goddamn peta and all those activist groups.
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to respond to the OP: i am happy for vick too. he played like a stud, providing entertaining football, exactly what he is supposed to do.
its a shame he will be benched for kolb again, but hopefully kolb does so bad they are forced to put vick back into the lineup.
i hope he gets traded to the vikings...
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we should totally bring back the days of prisoners doing gladiatorial battle to the death for their freedom
if he was sentenced to like 18 months of gladiator combat and survived i would be more inclined to give him a second chance.
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Good shit, I'm a vick fan too.. Him and Brees are my 2 favorite QBs to watch. And i got Desean Jackson on my fantasy squad and they've been gellin so
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On September 22 2010 13:47 Coagulation wrote: we should totally bring back the days of prisoners doing gladiatorial battle to the death for their freedom
if he was sentenced to like 18 months of gladiator combat and survived i would be more inclined to give him a second chance.
Some prisons are like that dude...
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well, since when has andy reid not been a shitty human being?
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also, you would think that the trade leverage the eagles have would be worth more
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i can't wait until the eagles play the redskins
i really really can't wait to see mcnabb kill them
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He never has, and never will be a great quarterback. He's a glorified running back who is too quick to try to prove he isn't. If he simply acknowledge he was mediocre and ran with greater frequency, he could legitimately have signs of greatness. Instead, he'll still try to force passes or choose to throw instead of run in situations merely to try to prove to his detractors that he is a quarterback.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Oh Michael Vick. Whenever you played you were one of the most exciting quarterbacks to watch. Too bad the Falcons never really got you a stud wideout and instead you were stuck with shit like Peerless Price. The speed and elusiveness of a running back, but at quarterback. Boy were you fun to watch.
But when you didn't play, and that was quite often, you left all of us Falcons fans out there hanging, wondering whether or not you'd be able to stay healthy next year for the entire season. And rarely were we graced with such a thing. I will never forgive you for leaving our franchise to die. A ton of our money clogged up in our superstar quarterback, only to be left in disappointment as we saw our franchise QB get sent to jail the same year we trade our backup QB. (I miss you Matt Schaub!)
We trusted you, and you broke that trust. For that, I can never forgive you. Had we not landed Matt Ryan, our franchise would continue to be in a state of rebuilding, as we try to recover from what you left behind. Thanks Mike Vick.
Fuck you Michael Vick. It pains me to see how well you're doing in Philly nowadays. What could have been if you were still at the helm of the Falcons offense. Vick to a non-butterfingers Roddy White, handing off to Michael Turner. What could have been.
Fuck you Michael Vick. Fuck you.
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LOLOLOL Vick has fans?? One of the most, if not the most inconsistent QB out there. Is he the starting QB now? Last week I heard Andy Reid said that Kolb was going to still be their primary QB?
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The guy is fucking electrifyingly athletic. For that reason i love to watch him play, because its rare to see the kind of talent where at any given play he can disappear down the field impossibly fast. But most of the time its just a let down. Kinda sucks a human being, but god damn i would do some unforgiveable things to have that kind of athleticism.
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On September 22 2010 14:25 MetalMarine wrote: LOLOLOL Vick has fans?? One of the most, if not the most inconsistent QB out there. Is he the starting QB now? Last week I heard Andy Reid said that Kolb was going to still be their primary QB?
he caved to the masses of retarded eagles fans that were screaming for vick to get the job
the same masses that wanted mcnabb gone. this is why the eagles will never win another championship, because they let the fans run the team
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On September 22 2010 13:17 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 13:05 Tazza wrote:On September 22 2010 12:59 Slow Motion wrote:On September 22 2010 12:51 Tazza wrote: Guys, you know what I just realized? People in the usa care more about dogs than people. Everyone here talked about how the dogs don't get second chances, but what about those people that were murdered. And oh yeah, the dogs that survived to go to the animal resources center. I mean, Donte Stallworth killed a PERSON by DUI. He got 1 month in jail. And Stallworth still plays. If a murderer can get a second chance, why can't vick. And it was not all vick that was doing this, it was mostly his bad friends that used the house under his name If Vick killed a dog by DUI, he would've been punished less than Stallworth. If Vick tortured and killed humans instead of dogs in his backyard, the he would have been punished more than he was. So your argument that people in the U.S. care more about dogs than people is wrong. Yeah, but Stallworth killed another human being. And as i said, it wasn't vick as so much as it was his friends. And who's fault is it that Stallworth was drunk, and was driving. He shouldn't have been doing that, but he did, and he killed a person. I still find it amazing how vick got 18 times the harsher penalty. For example, for voluntary manslaughter, the sentence is by fine, jail time, or both, but the jail time cannot go over 10 years. Involuntary murder is the same, but cannot go over 6 years. 6 years vs 10 years is not even double, much less 18x more. Right now I have got to go to bed, its midnight here, but when I get back from school tomorrow at 3, I would like to discuss more of this with you guys Sorry, but using the Donte Stallworth situation to compare is terrible because that too was a complete travesty. The family of the victim was very active in getting restitution over jail time, and it worked. But comparing vicks situation to another situation that was a total joke does nothing for his case. I am not so against the amount of time he served, but don't give us the whole "it was his friends" crap. Michael Vick bankrolled the whole operation, and his friends were a bunch of leech gangster thugs that sucked off his tit. That was just one of a hundred shitty things he did with his guaranteed money, which is why he had to declare bankruptcy. Vick got his second chance, and I hope he gives more than lip service to his supposed changes.
I'm really happy someone came into this thread and discussed the fact that the family of the victim had a VERY large role in Stallworth's sentencing and restitution.
A family friend of mine killed someone while he was drunk, it wasn't even his fault (the person was driving on the wrong side of the road) but because he was drunk he did FOUR years. The family in this case pursued jail time instead of any monetary restitution, though.
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I've been a Falcons fan since 1996, and I cant believe how bad Atlanta fans are. They really hate Vick so much, forgetting that Vick actually made us relevant for so many years. With Mora as head coach, he would of been 2-50 without Vick.. Vick made the team decent, enough to get to the NFC champ game.. Something Matt Ryan will probably never do. Mora never built Vick an oline or weapons around him, and the defense was beyond pitiful.
If only we could have Mike Smith and TD's great minds (and actually building a TEAM! drafting OLine for once! a GOOD defense!) with Vick at QB, the Falcons would easily win the next 3 superbowls in a row. Unfortunately, we have Matt Ryan who throws so many picks and loses us games (steelers game 2 weeks ago??) and bleh. I still have hope, if Turner stays healthy.. but Ryan is overrated and no where near as good of a QB as Vick ever was.
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=(
I wish they would just put people like him down.
I can't imagine someone being an even remotely decent human being if they are able to treat dogs like that.
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On September 22 2010 12:37 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 12:28 MrBitter wrote:+ Show Spoiler +As an Atlanta native, I say this with only the most genuine intentions.
Fuck Michael Vick. Fuck that quitter who sat on the sidelines because his finger was hurt. Fuck that douche bag who felt it necessary to give the finger to his hometown fans. Fuck that dog killing joke of a human being who dodged our justice system because he was a celebrity.
Enjoy it while it lasts, Vick. Scrubs like you have a true knack for pissing away great opportunities. As an Atlanta native, I echo pretty much everything he just said. Fuck Michael Vick.
Same here, Atlanta resident too. Yes, when the guy takes off on a broken play or bombs the ball 60 yards it's electricity on grass, I admit that. But it's hard to forget how lazy, irresponsible and just completely disrespectful the guy was/is. Remember how about a month before the whole dogfighting thing blew up he got caught smuggling weed on a plane from Miami to Atlanta? How fucking stupid is that? You couldn't wait the hour long flight to just go buy some more with the bajillion dollars Arthur Blank was paying you? It was always one embarrassing thing after another with that guy. Fuck Michael Vick.
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As a football and sports fanatic, watching an athlete with electrifying talent such as Mr.Vick is truly a sight. It's like being blessed with the opportunity to watch Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson play basketball. An extremely rare mixture of talent with the speed of a sprinter, moves of a dancer, and arm of a gunslinger all wrapped up in with twisted package.
But as a humanitarian and believer in justice, Michael Vick is a piece of sh*t. I'm not one to judge someone for smoking weed (I live in California, it'll be legal here soon), but the things he oversaw with his close "friends" and the despicable things he did to force dogs to fight is horrible and downright ignorant. Like seriously man, throwing away the hundreds of millions of dollars to murder dogs with your friends? It's honestly like he's the 3rd of 4 Anti-Christs predicted by Nostradamus:
"Mabus will soon die and there will come A dreadful destruction of people and animals, Suddenly vengeance will be revealed, Hundred, hands, thirst and hunger when the comet will pass.
His hand finally through the bloody ALUS, He will be unable to protect himself by sea, Between two rivers he will fear the military hand, The black and angry one will make him repent of it."
Okay, this is a little exaggerated at all BUT it's basically how society feels about Mr. Vick. Too much talent, too much money, and too much wasted. Vick -> White or a Vick / Turner backfield would have been epic for the Falcons.
Oh well. Just enjoy watching Vick play this year and hopefully he does well until week 16 then flops in the first round (I picked Kolb first but picked up Vick immediately when Kolb left in Game 1 in my main FFL).
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On September 22 2010 16:13 BenKen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 12:37 Sentenal wrote:On September 22 2010 12:28 MrBitter wrote:+ Show Spoiler +As an Atlanta native, I say this with only the most genuine intentions.
Fuck Michael Vick. Fuck that quitter who sat on the sidelines because his finger was hurt. Fuck that douche bag who felt it necessary to give the finger to his hometown fans. Fuck that dog killing joke of a human being who dodged our justice system because he was a celebrity.
Enjoy it while it lasts, Vick. Scrubs like you have a true knack for pissing away great opportunities. As an Atlanta native, I echo pretty much everything he just said. Fuck Michael Vick. Same here, Atlanta resident too. Yes, when the guy takes off on a broken play or bombs the ball 60 yards it's electricity on grass, I admit that. But it's hard to forget how lazy, irresponsible and just completely disrespectful the guy was/is. Remember how about a month before the whole dogfighting thing blew up he got caught smuggling weed on a plane from Miami to Atlanta? How fucking stupid is that? You couldn't wait the hour long flight to just go buy some more with the bajillion dollars Arthur Blank was paying you? It was always one embarrassing thing after another with that guy. Fuck Michael Vick. as a DC native, i have no idea what you idiots are talking about. it's undeniable that he was a superstar in his prime and he's showing a shadow of that again with his play in the past 2 weeks. the Eagles are significantly scarier with Vick behind center, not to mention they got him essentially for free. i'm hoping that he'll continue to start (in every game except vs the Redskins) because i have lesean mccoy on my fantasy team and i'm sure that Vick will be better for mccoy's numbers than Kolb will.
remember how defensive coordinators were always bitching about how tough it was to gameplan vs vick? how imba is that? or that goddamn 10 yard dive touchdown in the 4th quarter to clinch the game vs the panthers? or when the cameraman couldn't keep up with his bullet passes (admittedly, regardless of how accurate he was). vick was a joy to watch and i have every reason to be glad that he's back except that he plays in the NFC East.
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United States22883 Posts
Do the Vick brothers even have parents? Because they're both terrible human beings.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
I don't see where all the Vick hate is coming from. He did a shitty thing and did his time. Now he's playing better at quarterback than he ever did in Atlanta, which implies that he's practicing hard and applying himself to his job in a way that he hadn't before.
I'm sorry that everyone at Atlanta is mad at him, but from the perspective of an Eagles fan, I've been really happy about Vick ever since the day he signed last year.
I don't know if this is about "second chances." Vick had about twenty "second chances" with the Falcons, and he let them down time and time again with his risky behavior and shoddy play. But now it looks like he's shaping up, and I'm not sure why people are still holding a grudge after Vick got out of a friggin' federal penitentiary.
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On September 22 2010 18:04 Jibba wrote: Do the Vick brothers even have parents? Because they're both terrible human beings.
he is from newport news, VA aka one of the worst crime rate areas in USA. His parents were actually both in his life and married, but he grew up in a project. IMO his parents actually did an ok job, because hes not dead or in jail for life which is what happens to lots of kids from his area.
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heeheh, i live in Newport News VA (although not the east end where the crime rate is aweful) anddddd i go to Virginia Tech, so my opinion is a slight bit ... biased.... but Vick has... it. The unobtainable it. You either have it or you don't have it. And he has it. Your born with it, you don't obtain it. Vick is an amazing athlete and he literally lights the field on fire with some plays. He is easily one of the most entertaining and fun players to watch on the football field. In that aspect i'm kind of happy that he got a second chance. But I can understand the hate from ATL fans. Most of you guys aren't pissed about the dog fighting, but how he left you guys high and dry. Completely understandable, I would hate him too.
That being said, his personal life is a mess. By no means am i condoning his messed up dog fighting incident. But in reality, you can walk down the streets in the east end and see dog fighting. It was around him, its what he grew up with. In everything that pertains to Michael Vick, there will be an * by his name, pointing to the dog fighting.
Now his brother is a tool. Imagine everything about Michael Vick that you hate x 10, that is Marcus Vick.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On September 22 2010 20:26 motbob wrote: I don't see where all the Vick hate is coming from. He did a shitty thing and did his time. Now he's playing better at quarterback than he ever did in Atlanta, which implies that he's practicing hard and applying himself to his job in a way that he hadn't before.
I'm sorry that everyone at Atlanta is mad at him, but from the perspective of an Eagles fan, I've been really happy about Vick ever since the day he signed last year.
I don't know if this is about "second chances." Vick had about twenty "second chances" with the Falcons, and he let them down time and time again with his risky behavior and shoddy play. But now it looks like he's shaping up, and I'm not sure why people are still holding a grudge after Vick got out of a friggin' federal penitentiary. He shit on our franchise. We're mad, we're angry. He quit on us like Lebron James did in the Playoffs.
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8716 Posts
Every person who has done something terrible should be terrible for the rest of their lives? Why do so many people seem to want to live in a world that obeys some shitty rule like that? That's stupid. When someone does something wrong, you regret that they did something wrong but you shouldn't want the rest of their existence to be terrible, at the very least because that just makes your world worse, but hopefully also because you shouldn't want bad things to happen in general.
Vick could bring so much to the NFL as a unique and exciting QB but some football fans would rather he not be successful, for what? Some personal grudge when they don't even have a personal relationship with him? Because they don't believe in the justice system of the government of the country they live in? These are the reasons you wish the world would all have to watch Kolb play rather than Vick? You are just pessimists who, if you had any influence, would be proclaiming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Luckily you don't have any influence :o
If Vick has an awesome career from here on out, we all benefit.
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I'm more down on him for giving the finger to hometown fans than for the dog fighting thing.
The dog fighting thing was shitty, but what kind of prima donna, egotistical prick flicks off the people who are making him famous? That's like party foul numero uno in the world of professional sports.
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On September 22 2010 23:32 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 20:26 motbob wrote: I don't see where all the Vick hate is coming from. He did a shitty thing and did his time. Now he's playing better at quarterback than he ever did in Atlanta, which implies that he's practicing hard and applying himself to his job in a way that he hadn't before.
I'm sorry that everyone at Atlanta is mad at him, but from the perspective of an Eagles fan, I've been really happy about Vick ever since the day he signed last year.
I don't know if this is about "second chances." Vick had about twenty "second chances" with the Falcons, and he let them down time and time again with his risky behavior and shoddy play. But now it looks like he's shaping up, and I'm not sure why people are still holding a grudge after Vick got out of a friggin' federal penitentiary. He shit on our franchise. We're mad, we're angry. He quit on us like Lebron James did in the Playoffs.
I've watched every single Falcons game in the past 10 years, Vick NEVER quit on them in a game. Infact, Without Vick, the Falcons would of been the first 0-16 team multiple times in the Mora years. You saw what happened when Petrino came to town, the horrible oline/team around Vick had to play without their savior, and it got owned.
Theres a reason why Smith/TD basically turned the entire team over within 2 years, and theres only like 5-6 players left from the Mora days on the team now. The team was terrible beyond belief. Vick was the one that made them competitive.
Look at the Eagles now, their OLine is horrible, so bad Kolb got dominated. Vick comes in, and they are looking like a playoff offense. He is a game changer, and never quit on any team.
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I'm not even gonna really touch the moral issue with dog fighting. That's not something that can be argued through statistics, and nothing's gonna change my mind that the guy is a huge, huge piece of shit. I'd go Philadelphia fan style and stand up and cheer if he got injured. So that's outta the way.
That is completely and totally separate from Vick the football player, who I also hate for being probably the most overrated player in NFL history. That I can back up with stats.
On September 22 2010 16:43 trancey wrote: As a football and sports fanatic, watching an athlete with electrifying talent such as Mr.Vick is truly a sight. It's like being blessed with the opportunity to watch Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson play basketball. An extremely rare mixture of talent with the speed of a sprinter, moves of a dancer, and arm of a gunslinger all wrapped up in with twisted package.
Holy shitballs! I understand being in awe of his speed and raw athleticism, but Vick was NEVER even remotely close to being an elite in his sport like those two. I'm gonna break this down into bullets, because it's easier.
* No Superbowls (not the best barometer for success, but what the hell, since you somehow compared to MJ) * Career 54% passer and has been in the league since 2001. (currently at 66% through two games. You don't have to be a statistic nerd to see where this goes. If you think a guy who sat out two years of football will not just improve, but improve his accuracy a full 20% and keep it there, you are insane. * Terrible at reading plays * Never once close to leading any QB statistics. His career averages are most comparable to the 2009 versions of Ryan Fitzpatrick, Delhomme, Cassell, Freeman, Sanchez, Quinn and Russell. Great company! * People always say that you can't just take his passer stats. OK. Add in all his rushing yards and TDs, all his fumbles, all his sacks. That's like 3,200yds a season on average, around 20 TDs and just about as many turnovers. You're in the same territory as the above guys, ie. right around 15th in the league or so. * I particularly loved the shit in 2006, where every analyst was gushing that he finally arrived because he threw more than two TDS in a single game for the first time in his fucking career—IN HIS SIXTH SEASON. This was after Vick opened the '06 season by having a QB rating better than 77 once in the first five games that season.... and that two game span accounted for nearly 1/3 of his season's production.
Positives: * Arm strength (The only guy in history with comparable arm strength is JaMarcuss Russell. How's that comaprison??) * Ridonculous speed * his 02 season was definitely nice when you combine everything... but he never came close to that again. 06 was nice rushing, but terrible passing and a terrible overall offense because of his stupid, selfish play.
Forget Pro-Bowls, those mean absolutely nothing. His lone accomplishment is leading the league in QB rushing by a wide margin, and that 1,000 yd rushing season.
On September 22 2010 15:49 Skyze wrote: I've been a Falcons fan since 1996, and I cant believe how bad Atlanta fans are. They really hate Vick so much, forgetting that Vick actually made us relevant for so many years. With Mora as head coach, he would of been 2-50 without Vick.. Vick made the team decent, enough to get to the NFC champ game.. Something Matt Ryan will probably never do. Mora never built Vick an oline or weapons around him, and the defense was beyond pitiful.
If only we could have Mike Smith and TD's great minds (and actually building a TEAM! drafting OLine for once! a GOOD defense!) with Vick at QB, the Falcons would easily win the next 3 superbowls in a row. Unfortunately, we have Matt Ryan who throws so many picks and loses us games (steelers game 2 weeks ago??) and bleh. I still have hope, if Turner stays healthy.. but Ryan is overrated and no where near as good of a QB as Vick ever was.
Falcons final D ranks; O-Ranks, per yahoo: 01: 25; 24 02: 7; 5 03: 30; 20 04: 14; 16 05: 18; 14 06: 16; 25
The team has hardly been bogged down by its defense. Only in 03 was that the case. Things to note: The team's best year was when Vick actually attempted throwing instead of taking off every play (02). 06, when he was a dumbass that ran all the time, his offense was terrible because it was so one dimensional. 03, when he went down, proves what an impact it is on the team because the playbook and personnel has to be tailored around one player that can't throw. It's different from how the Colts would suck if they lost Peyton, because all the personnel fit, but there's just a shit back up.
Furthermore, you can't be a perrenial top rushing team with a shit line. Vick was sacked so much because he had no idea how to properly utilize his pocket to buy time instead of run. He always had a fairly good Oline. Oline just doesn't mean anything if your QB decides to scurry outside the pocket when pressured instead of step up, like how they teach you in peewee. And there was talent. Peerless Price was a good WR prior to ATL. He had Crumpler for years, a very, very good tight end. The running game was always nasty, even without him coming out of the backfield eveyr other play.
And lastly on Ryan, are you kidding me??? Read the stats instead of going on memory. Vick had more interceptions in every season that he started except for one, and once you factor in fumbles, Vick is much, much more turnover prone. Furthermore, because he is able to pass efficiently, it keeps defenses honest. If they fall behind, they have the option to throw and conserve time, instead of being a ground oriented team trying to play catch up (like every year with Vick).
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United States22883 Posts
62% completion against the Lions is like 17% against a real NFL team.
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On September 23 2010 03:27 Jibba wrote: 62% completion against the Lions is like 17% against a real NFL team.
Why do I have to create a wall of text, and you can pretty much convey the same message in one line~~~
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Vick is a good QB and exciting as hell to watch. I have to agree with NonY. Juding a person entirely and solely by the worst thing they have ever done is a stupid thing to do.
Eagles fans shouldn't get false hope, they're going nowhere this season. I doubt they'll even make the playoffs.
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On September 22 2010 23:45 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Every person who has done something terrible should be terrible for the rest of their lives? Why do so many people seem to want to live in a world that obeys some shitty rule like that? That's stupid. When someone does something wrong, you regret that they did something wrong but you shouldn't want the rest of their existence to be terrible, at the very least because that just makes your world worse, but hopefully also because you shouldn't want bad things to happen in general.
Vick could bring so much to the NFL as a unique and exciting QB but some football fans would rather he not be successful, for what? Some personal grudge when they don't even have a personal relationship with him? Because they don't believe in the justice system of the government of the country they live in? These are the reasons you wish the world would all have to watch Kolb play rather than Vick? You are just pessimists who, if you had any influence, would be proclaiming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Luckily you don't have any influence :o
If Vick has an awesome career from here on out, we all benefit.
I feel the need to defend my views, so forgive me for rambling on off-topic about myself for a bit...
Firstly, I freely admit to being overly pessimistic and more of an advocate for "eye for an eye" punishment than the current system. I've never watched a game of Michael Vick's...in fact, I could count the number of football games I've watched on my left hand, so I'm not basing my views on anything having to do with football. I could quite honestly give a shit as to whether or not he remains successful at what he does, so long as, when the time comes, he gets his due.
Secondly, I do not believe in second chances. Call it stupid, that's your right. I've seen people (both people I know personally and people I have only heard of in the news) come back from mistakes, swear up and down that they've changed, and get nailed for the exact same thing six months later. I'll agree it sounds jaded, but that's because it is. I'll also agree that it's shitty world we live in, but there is no reason to be naive, because in my experience, people don't change.
Lastly, you and I both are glad that people like me don't have influence in this world. I'm not trying to pretend like my views are viable or even possible in this world, merely silently opposing the injustices of the world we live in. It sounds melodramatic when I read it out loud, but oh well.
tl;dr, the world sucks, life goes on.
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I cant believe people are actually arguing in Vick vs Ryan..
Vick's starting Offensive "talent" around him.. Peerless Price.. Warrick Dunn.. TJ Duckett.. Matt LEHR, Shaffer, Weiner, Forney. Roddy white (who admitted himself, his first 3 years he just ate McD's everyday and never trained) ..
Can ANY of those players start on ANY other team? No. Shaffer, Lehr, Dunn, Duckett, Price all played for other teams after the Falcons (teams like the Bucs, Redskins, Browns, Seahwaks, teams that are the worst in the league).. and they all got cut after one season. Thats called talent.
Not to mention the coordinators.. Greg Knapp (OCoord) and Ed Donatell (DCoord).. Look what happened WHEREVER Greg Knapp went in his career..Oakland in 2007, horrible offense. then Seattle in 2009, he made Mora get fired again. The guy is the worst Offensive coordinator in the league, he ruined every QB in Oakland and ruined Matt Hasslebeck, and he was calling the plays for Vick for 3 years. no wonder Vick had bad stats.
Matt Ryan has a top 5 RB in the NFL in Turner, the best TE of all time in Gonzalez, a Roddy White that is probowl calibur now that he doesnt eat McD's every day, and an OLine that was all drafted recently and are finally over 300+ lbs unlike in the Mora era. Not to mention a D that is better than any D in the Vick era.. And Matt ryan loses the first playoff game, then goes 9-7.
Vick brought them to the NFC Champ game with a HORRIBLE team around him, and Matt Ryan cant even get a single playoff win with tons of probowl/hall of fame talent around him?
Stats mean nothing when you have to take in account the talent around the team. Steve Young did great on the Bucs didnt he? What about Montana with the Chiefs?? If you took Tom Brady and put him on the Lions for the past decade, would he win more than 3 games a year? Most likely not. Therefor, you cant talk about Vick's stats. With a talented offense finally around him in Philly, he is putting up career numbers. Wonder why.. maybe a WR/TE that can actually catch the ball, and an OLine that doesnt get pushed back 5 yards every play? A Coordinator that isnt calling the same play every single play??
Vick will put up better stats than Matt Ryan this year, no question, unless he gets injured.
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Wow, there are so so many pessimists out there. Whiladan, you don't believe in second chances? Isn't that what america is about? And its not about people can, and do change. Although its not all the time, it happens. We will see if Vick changes or not in the next few years.
And I've read on this post that some people on here actually want vick to die, or "put him down." But if you object that he should never play football, or be in jail forever, or be executed, that means you don't believe in the American justice system. And Manifesto7, I agree with your points, but it just seems that people care awfully more about dog's lives than any other kinds of lives. I mean, do you know how many chickens are brought for the sole purpose to eat them? Think of how many chickens that is. Do you know how many people in the world are murdered or die unjustly deaths? And yet, we don't really care too much about that, but all of a sudden, when a dog dies, we just go nuts. And Manifesto7, the only thing that matters, is that we agree that vick should get a second chance. Thats all im saying. I don't condone dog fighting and never will. And another good point brought up was that Vick grew up in dog-fighting. It is very common in newsport news virginia.
I just find it wierd that so many people believe he should have gotten a longer sentence and all that. Which brings me to another point, if you don't think vick should have gotten a chance, then what do you think should be done to him? And what should he do for the rest of his life, if he even deserves a life?
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God damn it, he just ruined Madden '12.
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Austin10831 Posts
On September 22 2010 23:45 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Every person who has done something terrible should be terrible for the rest of their lives? Why do so many people seem to want to live in a world that obeys some shitty rule like that? That's stupid. When someone does something wrong, you regret that they did something wrong but you shouldn't want the rest of their existence to be terrible, at the very least because that just makes your world worse, but hopefully also because you shouldn't want bad things to happen in general.
Vick could bring so much to the NFL as a unique and exciting QB but some football fans would rather he not be successful, for what? Some personal grudge when they don't even have a personal relationship with him? Because they don't believe in the justice system of the government of the country they live in? These are the reasons you wish the world would all have to watch Kolb play rather than Vick? You are just pessimists who, if you had any influence, would be proclaiming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Luckily you don't have any influence :o
If Vick has an awesome career from here on out, we all benefit. I don't think calling people stupid for remaining upset with Michael Vick for a number of reasons is a legitimate criticism. What many ATL fans will associate with Vick, along side the superhuman flashes of athletic brilliance, are the displays of disdain and contempt towards those that wanted so much for him to succeed. Michael Vick may have paid his debt to the state, but he's done very little outside the realm of lip service to repair any bonds with his fans or the public at large, which is why so many people are unwilling to look past his mistakes. I don't understand how this attitude makes their life, or the world at large, a worse place at all.
I think part of the "grudge" you're suggesting isn't really personal, but rather the fact that they can't reconcile associating this person and his choices with the rewards we (fairly or not) bestow on celebrities and athletes in this culture, and as a consequence they resoundingly reject Vick as a player and a person (although only one of those has any real relevance here). As nice as it would be to just see Michael Vick as a great QB in a nice football vacuum, we frame everything we see or do in a context and with a history. For every amazing run down the sideline, we're reminded of the middle finger, or "Ron Mexico", or of a multi-millionaire drowning dogs because they weren't fighting well enough.
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On September 23 2010 04:40 Skyze wrote: I cant believe people are actually arguing in Vick vs Ryan..
Vick's starting Offensive "talent" around him.. Peerless Price.. Warrick Dunn.. TJ Duckett.. Matt LEHR, Shaffer, Weiner, Forney. Roddy white (who admitted himself, his first 3 years he just ate McD's everyday and never trained) ..
Can ANY of those players start on ANY other team? No. Shaffer, Lehr, Dunn, Duckett, Price all played for other teams after the Falcons (teams like the Bucs, Redskins, Browns, Seahwaks, teams that are the worst in the league).. and they all got cut after one season. Thats called talent.
Not to mention the coordinators.. Greg Knapp (OCoord) and Ed Donatell (DCoord).. Look what happened WHEREVER Greg Knapp went in his career..Oakland in 2007, horrible offense. then Seattle in 2009, he made Mora get fired again. The guy is the worst Offensive coordinator in the league, he ruined every QB in Oakland and ruined Matt Hasslebeck, and he was calling the plays for Vick for 3 years. no wonder Vick had bad stats.
Matt Ryan has a top 5 RB in the NFL in Turner, the best TE of all time in Gonzalez, a Roddy White that is probowl calibur now that he doesnt eat McD's every day, and an OLine that was all drafted recently and are finally over 300+ lbs unlike in the Mora era. Not to mention a D that is better than any D in the Vick era.. And Matt ryan loses the first playoff game, then goes 9-7.
Vick brought them to the NFC Champ game with a HORRIBLE team around him, and Matt Ryan cant even get a single playoff win with tons of probowl/hall of fame talent around him?
Stats mean nothing when you have to take in account the talent around the team. Steve Young did great on the Bucs didnt he? What about Montana with the Chiefs?? If you took Tom Brady and put him on the Lions for the past decade, would he win more than 3 games a year? Most likely not. Therefor, you cant talk about Vick's stats. With a talented offense finally around him in Philly, he is putting up career numbers. Wonder why.. maybe a WR/TE that can actually catch the ball, and an OLine that doesnt get pushed back 5 yards every play? A Coordinator that isnt calling the same play every single play??
Vick will put up better stats than Matt Ryan this year, no question, unless he gets injured. Last I checked, Knapp worked with Steve Young and Jeff Garcia, two mobile QBs who were pretty damn good in the years that he coached them on the Niners. One of them you may recognize as a superbowl winner and HOFer.
And again, besides one year, the D was ranked even with the offense. The 'HORRIBLE' team that he brought to the NFC championship was 14th for the season on defense and 16th for offense. More than balanced enough to get into the playoffs and do damage Stats are your friend.
Now, regarding Vick's talent. Crumpler was a top 5 TE during his whole tenure with Vick at the helm. Price had almost the same averages as his beast year in Buffalo—IE. it wasn't an issue of him not doing anything when it was thrown his way. The only difference was the volume of balls coming his way. Every single year, the Falcons were in the bottom third (and last at least once) for pass attempts, pass yards, completion %, etc. etc. This explains why Roddy White blew the fuck up after Vick and Price were gone. Vick already threw a very limited number of balls, and White was #2 or #3 on the depth chart on game day. Most slot guys don't get more than 45-55 catches on a passing team. His averages are similar each year. He got more passes that were better thrown.
The line that you dirt on was crafted that way to maximize Vick's talents. What good is a 350lb monster Oline that can't pull to create the MANY running holes that they used to a top rushing ofense each year (a rushing offense that was top 10 very easily without Vick's yardage—go look). It makes no sense to have big, heavy pass protection linemen for a QB that runs a lot on a running team.
Your last paragraph is just utter nonsense. You compared the Falcons to the Young era Bucs, which were HISTORICALLY bad, as in regarded among the worst squads ever to suit up... same with the Lions, which have about as many wins in three years as the Falcons did in one year without Vick.
If you're not even gonna bother using stats to back up your argument, and just flat out be wrong about what you're saying, why don't you just save your five minutes and post in another thread??
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On September 23 2010 04:41 Tazza wrote: Wow, there are so so many pessimists out there. Whiladan, you don't believe in second chances? Isn't that what america is about? And its not about people can, and do change. Although its not all the time, it happens. We will see if Vick changes or not in the next few years.
And I've read on this post that some people on here actually want vick to die, or "put him down." But if you object that he should never play football, or be in jail forever, or be executed, that means you don't believe in the American justice system. And Manifesto7, I agree with your points, but it just seems that people care awfully more about dog's lives than any other kinds of lives. I mean, do you know how many chickens are brought for the sole purpose to eat them? Think of how many chickens that is. Do you know how many people in the world are murdered or die unjustly deaths? And yet, we don't really care too much about that, but all of a sudden, when a dog dies, we just go nuts. And Manifesto7, the only thing that matters, is that we agree that vick should get a second chance. Thats all im saying. I don't condone dog fighting and never will. And another good point brought up was that Vick grew up in dog-fighting. It is very common in newsport news virginia.
I just find it wierd that so many people believe he should have gotten a longer sentence and all that. Which brings me to another point, if you don't think vick should have gotten a chance, then what do you think should be done to him? And what should he do for the rest of his life, if he even deserves a life?
Like, I said at the beginning of my post, I was defending my views. If you don't agree with them, that's fine. But since they've been challenged (again), I guess I have to defend them (again).
No, I don't believe in second chances, as I previously said. Sure, the Justice system would like to believe that most criminals can be reformed and returned to society as normal, law abiding citizens. I disagree. See my above post for why.
This thread is, unless I'm mistaken, intended to be about Michael Vick...if Michael Vick was caught involved a cock-fighting ring, I can tell you right now that you could take my posts word for word, substituting the word "chicken" in place of the word "dog". So, if it's ok with you, don't assume that because I come to the defense of dogs, that I value the life of a dog over the life of anything else. The only distinction I honestly make between the values of two lives is between the life of the innocent, and the life of the guilty...(except spiders, spiders are K.O.S.)
Sure, he can live out the rest of his days peaceably as an NFL player. I'll bet he sleeps easier at night than I do, as well. I don't care. All I care is that we not pretend that 18 months of jail time makes up for the suffering and death of the dogs affected by his actions.
Cool, he grew up in dog-fighting, dog-fighting is common where he is from. Therefore, that makes it OK? No. That is last-resort logic. That's like saying 1960's America grew up around racism, so people should have chilled out with the Civil Rights Movement, right?
All I care that happens to Michael Vick, and I don't care when or where, is that he gets his due...his "eye for an eye" treatment. That's all that really matters to me.
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On September 23 2010 05:13 Whiladan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 04:41 Tazza wrote: Wow, there are so so many pessimists out there. Whiladan, you don't believe in second chances? Isn't that what america is about? And its not about people can, and do change. Although its not all the time, it happens. We will see if Vick changes or not in the next few years.
And I've read on this post that some people on here actually want vick to die, or "put him down." But if you object that he should never play football, or be in jail forever, or be executed, that means you don't believe in the American justice system. And Manifesto7, I agree with your points, but it just seems that people care awfully more about dog's lives than any other kinds of lives. I mean, do you know how many chickens are brought for the sole purpose to eat them? Think of how many chickens that is. Do you know how many people in the world are murdered or die unjustly deaths? And yet, we don't really care too much about that, but all of a sudden, when a dog dies, we just go nuts. And Manifesto7, the only thing that matters, is that we agree that vick should get a second chance. Thats all im saying. I don't condone dog fighting and never will. And another good point brought up was that Vick grew up in dog-fighting. It is very common in newsport news virginia.
I just find it wierd that so many people believe he should have gotten a longer sentence and all that. Which brings me to another point, if you don't think vick should have gotten a chance, then what do you think should be done to him? And what should he do for the rest of his life, if he even deserves a life? Like, I said at the beginning of my post, I was defending my views. If you don't agree with them, that's fine. But since they've been challenged (again), I guess I have to defend them (again). No, I don't believe in second chances, as I previously said. Sure, the Justice system would like to believe that most criminals can be reformed and returned to society as normal, law abiding citizens. I disagree. See my above post for why. This thread is, unless I'm mistaken, intended to be about Michael Vick...if Michael Vick was caught involved a cock-fighting ring, I can tell you right now that you could take my posts word for word, substituting the word "chicken" in place of the word "dog". So, if it's ok with you, don't assume that because I come to the defense of dogs, that I value the life of a dog over the life of anything else. The only distinction I honestly make between the values of two lives is between the life of the innocent, and the life of the guilty...(except spiders, spiders are K.O.S.) Sure, he can live out the rest of his days peaceably as an NFL player. I'll bet he sleeps easier at night than I do, as well. I don't care. All I care is that we not pretend that 18 months of jail time makes up for the suffering and death of the dogs affected by his actions. Cool, he grew up in dog-fighting, dog-fighting is common where he is from. Therefore, that makes it OK? No. That is last-resort logic. That's like saying 1960's America grew up around racism, so people should have chilled out with the Civil Rights Movement, right? All I care that happens to Michael Vick, and I don't care when or where, is that he gets his due...his "eye for an eye" treatment. That's all that really matters to me.
I've never understood the need for punishment, in the "eye for an eye" sense that you speak of. The only thing in societies interest is that he ceases to commit the crimes he was guilty of in the past. If he never harms another animal or person as a result of his prison sentence or rehabilitation then that's a victory for society at large.
Punishment doesn't benefit anyone but those who would feel some sort of relief from it. It doesn't change what he did, it only satisfies peoples sense of "justice". Peoples feelings aren't important, certainly not more important than a mans life or freedom.
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On September 23 2010 05:13 Whiladan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 04:41 Tazza wrote: Wow, there are so so many pessimists out there. Whiladan, you don't believe in second chances? Isn't that what america is about? And its not about people can, and do change. Although its not all the time, it happens. We will see if Vick changes or not in the next few years.
And I've read on this post that some people on here actually want vick to die, or "put him down." But if you object that he should never play football, or be in jail forever, or be executed, that means you don't believe in the American justice system. And Manifesto7, I agree with your points, but it just seems that people care awfully more about dog's lives than any other kinds of lives. I mean, do you know how many chickens are brought for the sole purpose to eat them? Think of how many chickens that is. Do you know how many people in the world are murdered or die unjustly deaths? And yet, we don't really care too much about that, but all of a sudden, when a dog dies, we just go nuts. And Manifesto7, the only thing that matters, is that we agree that vick should get a second chance. Thats all im saying. I don't condone dog fighting and never will. And another good point brought up was that Vick grew up in dog-fighting. It is very common in newsport news virginia.
I just find it wierd that so many people believe he should have gotten a longer sentence and all that. Which brings me to another point, if you don't think vick should have gotten a chance, then what do you think should be done to him? And what should he do for the rest of his life, if he even deserves a life? Like, I said at the beginning of my post, I was defending my views. If you don't agree with them, that's fine. But since they've been challenged (again), I guess I have to defend them (again). No, I don't believe in second chances, as I previously said. Sure, the Justice system would like to believe that most criminals can be reformed and returned to society as normal, law abiding citizens. I disagree. See my above post for why. This thread is, unless I'm mistaken, intended to be about Michael Vick...if Michael Vick was caught involved a cock-fighting ring, I can tell you right now that you could take my posts word for word, substituting the word "chicken" in place of the word "dog". So, if it's ok with you, don't assume that because I come to the defense of dogs, that I value the life of a dog over the life of anything else. The only distinction I honestly make between the values of two lives is between the life of the innocent, and the life of the guilty...(except spiders, spiders are K.O.S.) Sure, he can live out the rest of his days peaceably as an NFL player. I'll bet he sleeps easier at night than I do, as well. I don't care. All I care is that we not pretend that 18 months of jail time makes up for the suffering and death of the dogs affected by his actions. Cool, he grew up in dog-fighting, dog-fighting is common where he is from. Therefore, that makes it OK? No. That is last-resort logic. That's like saying 1960's America grew up around racism, so people should have chilled out with the Civil Rights Movement, right? All I care that happens to Michael Vick, and I don't care when or where, is that he gets his due...his "eye for an eye" treatment. That's all that really matters to me. So in your "eye to eye" justice system, are you saying that vick should also be electrocuted and drowned? Should involuntary manslaughter make that person also get accidently killed. What I'm saying is, if people do something wrong, they have to get punished for what they did, and after that, they have the option of going back to what they did and risk getting caught and going to jail again, or they can change themselves. Both options have happened. And I never said Its ok for vick to dogfight just because others around him did it. But im saying its one of the reasons he did it. And since you brought up the civil rights movement, doesn't that mean america changed for the better? You said that people never change. Didn't the people of America change then, and define that racism was wrong?
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On September 23 2010 03:27 Jibba wrote: 62% completion against the Lions is like 17% against a real NFL team. Hey, the lions aren't too bad this year. Had it not been for that call when Calvin Johnson clearly caught the ball, they would have won against chicago
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United States22883 Posts
On September 23 2010 05:29 Tazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 03:27 Jibba wrote: 62% completion against the Lions is like 17% against a real NFL team. Hey, the lions aren't too bad this year. Had it not been for that call when Calvin Johnson clearly caught the ball, they would have won against chicago Yes, I listen to the 97.1 when I need a good laugh. Lions fans have convinced themselves they're almost 2-0 this season.
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On September 23 2010 05:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 05:13 Whiladan wrote:On September 23 2010 04:41 Tazza wrote: Wow, there are so so many pessimists out there. Whiladan, you don't believe in second chances? Isn't that what america is about? And its not about people can, and do change. Although its not all the time, it happens. We will see if Vick changes or not in the next few years.
And I've read on this post that some people on here actually want vick to die, or "put him down." But if you object that he should never play football, or be in jail forever, or be executed, that means you don't believe in the American justice system. And Manifesto7, I agree with your points, but it just seems that people care awfully more about dog's lives than any other kinds of lives. I mean, do you know how many chickens are brought for the sole purpose to eat them? Think of how many chickens that is. Do you know how many people in the world are murdered or die unjustly deaths? And yet, we don't really care too much about that, but all of a sudden, when a dog dies, we just go nuts. And Manifesto7, the only thing that matters, is that we agree that vick should get a second chance. Thats all im saying. I don't condone dog fighting and never will. And another good point brought up was that Vick grew up in dog-fighting. It is very common in newsport news virginia.
I just find it wierd that so many people believe he should have gotten a longer sentence and all that. Which brings me to another point, if you don't think vick should have gotten a chance, then what do you think should be done to him? And what should he do for the rest of his life, if he even deserves a life? Like, I said at the beginning of my post, I was defending my views. If you don't agree with them, that's fine. But since they've been challenged (again), I guess I have to defend them (again). No, I don't believe in second chances, as I previously said. Sure, the Justice system would like to believe that most criminals can be reformed and returned to society as normal, law abiding citizens. I disagree. See my above post for why. This thread is, unless I'm mistaken, intended to be about Michael Vick...if Michael Vick was caught involved a cock-fighting ring, I can tell you right now that you could take my posts word for word, substituting the word "chicken" in place of the word "dog". So, if it's ok with you, don't assume that because I come to the defense of dogs, that I value the life of a dog over the life of anything else. The only distinction I honestly make between the values of two lives is between the life of the innocent, and the life of the guilty...(except spiders, spiders are K.O.S.) Sure, he can live out the rest of his days peaceably as an NFL player. I'll bet he sleeps easier at night than I do, as well. I don't care. All I care is that we not pretend that 18 months of jail time makes up for the suffering and death of the dogs affected by his actions. Cool, he grew up in dog-fighting, dog-fighting is common where he is from. Therefore, that makes it OK? No. That is last-resort logic. That's like saying 1960's America grew up around racism, so people should have chilled out with the Civil Rights Movement, right? All I care that happens to Michael Vick, and I don't care when or where, is that he gets his due...his "eye for an eye" treatment. That's all that really matters to me. I've never understood the need for punishment, in the "eye for an eye" sense that you speak of. The only thing in societies interest is that he ceases to commit the crimes he was guilty of in the past. If he never harms another animal or person as a result of his prison sentence or rehabilitation then that's a victory for society at large. Punishment doesn't benefit anyone but those who would feel some sort of relief from it. It doesn't change what he did, it only satisfies peoples sense of "justice". Peoples feelings aren't important, certainly not more important than a mans life or freedom.
Again, this ties in with my "no second chances" view. Sure, everybody has something to say about why strong opinions such as my own are wrong, I'm used to that. Since this no longer seems to be a discussion on why Michael Vick is/is not a terrible person (or maybe it never was...if so, forgive me for derailing the topic), I'll generalize:
Absolutely, my feelings are not important (you did not specify me, but I feel it's fair to assume). I'm not trying to change the world, I'm just posting my opinion in a blog. Regardless, CIVILization should be held to a certain standard of CIVILity. It's not my place, nor your place, nor any single person's place to dictate this standard. Everyone decides. Which obviously indicates that the list of "unforgivable crimes" society adheres to is going to be much shorter than my own. The important thing to note is that little rule they teach us in elementary school..."Majority rules, minority rights". While my opinion of "no second chances" is not the opinion held by the majority here or ANYWHERE, it is still exactly as valid as yours.
I won't even bother going over the massive hole in logic of "people's feelings don't matter" in regards to the families of murder victims.
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On September 23 2010 05:38 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 05:29 Tazza wrote:On September 23 2010 03:27 Jibba wrote: 62% completion against the Lions is like 17% against a real NFL team. Hey, the lions aren't too bad this year. Had it not been for that call when Calvin Johnson clearly caught the ball, they would have won against chicago Yes, I listen to the 97.1 when I need a good laugh. Lions fans have convinced themselves they're almost 2-0 this season. Yeah, I think the lions are cursed
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On September 23 2010 05:25 Tazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 05:13 Whiladan wrote:On September 23 2010 04:41 Tazza wrote: Wow, there are so so many pessimists out there. Whiladan, you don't believe in second chances? Isn't that what america is about? And its not about people can, and do change. Although its not all the time, it happens. We will see if Vick changes or not in the next few years.
And I've read on this post that some people on here actually want vick to die, or "put him down." But if you object that he should never play football, or be in jail forever, or be executed, that means you don't believe in the American justice system. And Manifesto7, I agree with your points, but it just seems that people care awfully more about dog's lives than any other kinds of lives. I mean, do you know how many chickens are brought for the sole purpose to eat them? Think of how many chickens that is. Do you know how many people in the world are murdered or die unjustly deaths? And yet, we don't really care too much about that, but all of a sudden, when a dog dies, we just go nuts. And Manifesto7, the only thing that matters, is that we agree that vick should get a second chance. Thats all im saying. I don't condone dog fighting and never will. And another good point brought up was that Vick grew up in dog-fighting. It is very common in newsport news virginia.
I just find it wierd that so many people believe he should have gotten a longer sentence and all that. Which brings me to another point, if you don't think vick should have gotten a chance, then what do you think should be done to him? And what should he do for the rest of his life, if he even deserves a life? Like, I said at the beginning of my post, I was defending my views. If you don't agree with them, that's fine. But since they've been challenged (again), I guess I have to defend them (again). No, I don't believe in second chances, as I previously said. Sure, the Justice system would like to believe that most criminals can be reformed and returned to society as normal, law abiding citizens. I disagree. See my above post for why. This thread is, unless I'm mistaken, intended to be about Michael Vick...if Michael Vick was caught involved a cock-fighting ring, I can tell you right now that you could take my posts word for word, substituting the word "chicken" in place of the word "dog". So, if it's ok with you, don't assume that because I come to the defense of dogs, that I value the life of a dog over the life of anything else. The only distinction I honestly make between the values of two lives is between the life of the innocent, and the life of the guilty...(except spiders, spiders are K.O.S.) Sure, he can live out the rest of his days peaceably as an NFL player. I'll bet he sleeps easier at night than I do, as well. I don't care. All I care is that we not pretend that 18 months of jail time makes up for the suffering and death of the dogs affected by his actions. Cool, he grew up in dog-fighting, dog-fighting is common where he is from. Therefore, that makes it OK? No. That is last-resort logic. That's like saying 1960's America grew up around racism, so people should have chilled out with the Civil Rights Movement, right? All I care that happens to Michael Vick, and I don't care when or where, is that he gets his due...his "eye for an eye" treatment. That's all that really matters to me. So in your "eye to eye" justice system, are you saying that vick should also be electrocuted and drowned? Should involuntary manslaughter make that person also get accidently killed. What I'm saying is, if people do something wrong, they have to get punished for what they did, and after that, they have the option of going back to what they did and risk getting caught and going to jail again, or they can change themselves. Both options have happened. And I never said Its ok for vick to dogfight just because others around him did it. But im saying its one of the reasons he did it. And since you brought up the civil rights movement, doesn't that mean america changed for the better? You said that people never change. Didn't the people of America change then, and define that racism was wrong?
As to your first question, yes that is my opinion. You can ask me again if you're unsure.
For the second part, America is not a person. America is a society in which the minority (civil rights activists) became the majority. Billy the Racist did not change, he's still a racist. The younger generation, who believed in civil rights, merely came to outnumber the generations before it which established and maintained traditions of racism. Nobody changed.
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On September 23 2010 05:48 Tazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 05:38 Jibba wrote:On September 23 2010 05:29 Tazza wrote:On September 23 2010 03:27 Jibba wrote: 62% completion against the Lions is like 17% against a real NFL team. Hey, the lions aren't too bad this year. Had it not been for that call when Calvin Johnson clearly caught the ball, they would have won against chicago Yes, I listen to the 97.1 when I need a good laugh. Lions fans have convinced themselves they're almost 2-0 this season. Yeah, I think the lions are cursed
So you're saying his original statement about playing good vs the lions means nothing really
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On September 23 2010 05:48 Tazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 05:38 Jibba wrote:On September 23 2010 05:29 Tazza wrote:On September 23 2010 03:27 Jibba wrote: 62% completion against the Lions is like 17% against a real NFL team. Hey, the lions aren't too bad this year. Had it not been for that call when Calvin Johnson clearly caught the ball, they would have won against chicago Yes, I listen to the 97.1 when I need a good laugh. Lions fans have convinced themselves they're almost 2-0 this season. Yeah, I think the lions are cursed I think they are just terrible.
Nothing is as entertaining as watching Buffalo bills fans during football season. I have watched the bills give up a ~21 point lead in under 3 minutes of play. I just say and laughed at my roommate for a good 5 minutes.
On topic, I dont follow football much but I really doubt there is any rehabilitation going on with Vic. I think he is smart enough that he wont do it again because he doesn't want to face the consequences, but if he felt any remorse about it he wouldn't have killed those ~20 dogs. I don't really see any reason to ban him from playing, there are lots of other scum bags in sports, but If I was looking to buy his contract I would make sure to have something in there so I could cut in at the slightest hint of bad press. No one wants to be associated with someone who tortures and kills dogs, and if they do it again well then I, as the owner, would be leading the mob with torches and pitch forks so my team doesnt get associated with his bad press
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Osaka26966 Posts
On September 23 2010 04:41 Tazza wrote: And Manifesto7, I agree with your points, but it just seems that people care awfully more about dog's lives than any other kinds of lives. I mean, do you know how many chickens are brought for the sole purpose to eat them? Think of how many chickens that is. Do you know how many people in the world are murdered or die unjustly deaths? And yet, we don't really care too much about that, but all of a sudden, when a dog dies, we just go nuts. And Manifesto7, the only thing that matters, is that we agree that vick should get a second chance. Thats all im saying. I don't condone dog fighting and never will. And another good point brought up was that Vick grew up in dog-fighting. It is very common in newsport news virginia.
Chickens? You are equating dog fighting with food production? That is ridiculous. Animal cruelty touches a cord with a lot of people, and cannot be compared straight up with humans.
Vick gets his second chance because he has the ability to play a sport that is a multi-billion dollar industry. The end. There is no social commentary about second chances going on here, no "this is a good guy, let's give him a second chance". If it was really about second chances, well, his first charge of drug possession would have taken care of it. If you or I had done what he had done we would be struggling to find minimum wage work. He is making more than 5 million dollars this year (or, more than I will make in 2 lifetimes teaching).
Hell of a second chance.
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On September 23 2010 06:04 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 04:41 Tazza wrote: And Manifesto7, I agree with your points, but it just seems that people care awfully more about dog's lives than any other kinds of lives. I mean, do you know how many chickens are brought for the sole purpose to eat them? Think of how many chickens that is. Do you know how many people in the world are murdered or die unjustly deaths? And yet, we don't really care too much about that, but all of a sudden, when a dog dies, we just go nuts. And Manifesto7, the only thing that matters, is that we agree that vick should get a second chance. Thats all im saying. I don't condone dog fighting and never will. And another good point brought up was that Vick grew up in dog-fighting. It is very common in newsport news virginia. Chickens? You are equating dog fighting with food production? That is ridiculous. Animal cruelty touches a cord with a lot of people, and cannot be compared straight up with humans. Vick gets his second chance because he has the ability to play a sport that is a multi-billion dollar industry. The end. There is no social commentary about second chances going on here, no "this is a good guy, let's give him a second chance". If it was really about second chances, well, his first charge of drug possession would have taken care of it. If you or I had done what he had done we would be struggling to find minimum wage work. He is making more than 5 million dollars this year (or, more than I will make in 2 lifetimes teaching). Hell of a second chance. You can't say that his weed in a bottle thing would have changed his entire career. I don't think you can count that as his second chance. Sure he may have gotten suspended or something and paid a fine, but he wouldn't have had to spend 18 months in jail, lost his 130 million dollar contract, and wouldn't have lost all his endorsements. Think about this, he lost all his endorsements and his contract, which would equal to roughly 200 million dollars. And now, this year, he is getting paid 5 million. So he is getting paid arguably about 5 percent of what he would have and would be making. Does your job pay 20 times more than minimum wage? And yes, he is getting paid a lot more than what all of us make because he is a superstar athlete. But, can we do something about it? No, athletics are a lot about genes, and natural skill, so its really hard to be pro at it.
And if you watched that movie Food, Inc. I would definitely call what they do to chickens and cows animal abuse. These animals are fed growth hormones, live in tight packed quarters, and most chickens never see daylight once in their lives. The food companies are really starting to take over a lot of politics and stuff. If you look at who works for the FDA, a lot of those people work for food companies.
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The only thing that irks me with second chances with athletes is that people seem to equate success after their mistake as redemption. Its the things off the field that have to make that happen. Like with Stallworth it seemed like he was really shaken up and remorseful about the whole thing. On his lack of jail time wasn't it also because the guy killed was partially at fault?
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On September 22 2010 23:45 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Every person who has done something terrible should be terrible for the rest of their lives? Why do so many people seem to want to live in a world that obeys some shitty rule like that? That's stupid. When someone does something wrong, you regret that they did something wrong but you shouldn't want the rest of their existence to be terrible, at the very least because that just makes your world worse, but hopefully also because you shouldn't want bad things to happen in general.
Vick could bring so much to the NFL as a unique and exciting QB but some football fans would rather he not be successful, for what? Some personal grudge when they don't even have a personal relationship with him? Because they don't believe in the justice system of the government of the country they live in? These are the reasons you wish the world would all have to watch Kolb play rather than Vick? You are just pessimists who, if you had any influence, would be proclaiming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Luckily you don't have any influence :o
If Vick has an awesome career from here on out, we all benefit. I really enjoyed watching Vick play with the Falcons. It's just that years of frustration over his constant injuries, flicking off the fans, and just in general his poor judgment when it comes to his dogfighting scandal are still ingrained in the minds of a lot of Falcons fans. It was just frustrating to see him take us to the NFC Championships one year to an injury in preseason the next year and the Falcons missing out badly on the playoffs. The cycle of uncertainty was always there with Michael Vick, and towards the end some of us fans just got tired of it, even before the entire dogfighting thing.
I hope he can be successful in Philly, but as a longtime Falcons fan, I'll always hate him for a number of reasons. As a person, I think he's total trash and I may never forgive him for what he did, but I hope he's figured things out in his life and he can bring back some of the flair we used to see every week as a player.
Kolb sucks.
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Osaka26966 Posts
On September 23 2010 06:24 Tazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 06:04 Manifesto7 wrote:On September 23 2010 04:41 Tazza wrote: And Manifesto7, I agree with your points, but it just seems that people care awfully more about dog's lives than any other kinds of lives. I mean, do you know how many chickens are brought for the sole purpose to eat them? Think of how many chickens that is. Do you know how many people in the world are murdered or die unjustly deaths? And yet, we don't really care too much about that, but all of a sudden, when a dog dies, we just go nuts. And Manifesto7, the only thing that matters, is that we agree that vick should get a second chance. Thats all im saying. I don't condone dog fighting and never will. And another good point brought up was that Vick grew up in dog-fighting. It is very common in newsport news virginia. Chickens? You are equating dog fighting with food production? That is ridiculous. Animal cruelty touches a cord with a lot of people, and cannot be compared straight up with humans. Vick gets his second chance because he has the ability to play a sport that is a multi-billion dollar industry. The end. There is no social commentary about second chances going on here, no "this is a good guy, let's give him a second chance". If it was really about second chances, well, his first charge of drug possession would have taken care of it. If you or I had done what he had done we would be struggling to find minimum wage work. He is making more than 5 million dollars this year (or, more than I will make in 2 lifetimes teaching). Hell of a second chance. You can't say that his weed in a bottle thing would have changed his entire career. I don't think you can count that as his second chance. Sure he may have gotten suspended or something and paid a fine, but he wouldn't have had to spend 18 months in jail, lost his 130 million dollar contract, and wouldn't have lost all his endorsements. Think about this, he lost all his endorsements and his contract, which would equal to roughly 200 million dollars. And now, this year, he is getting paid 5 million. So he is getting paid arguably about 5 percent of what he would have and would be making. Does your job pay 20 times more than minimum wage? And yes, he is getting paid a lot more than what all of us make because he is a superstar athlete. But, can we do something about it? No, athletics are a lot about genes, and natural skill, so its really hard to be pro at it. And if you watched that movie Food, Inc. I would definitely call what they do to chickens and cows animal abuse. These animals are fed growth hormones, live in tight packed quarters, and most chickens never see daylight once in their lives. The food companies are really starting to take over a lot of politics and stuff. If you look at who works for the FDA, a lot of those people work for food companies.
While I am aware of the issues in the food industry, I have no problem drawing a line between that and what Vick was charged with. Incomparable in my opinion. And sure, the water bottle incident wouldn't have cost him everything (but it is another example of something a 'regular' member of society would have suffered greatly for).
At the end of the day if he makes his millions, good for him. I do not think he should wear sack cloth and ashes for the rest of his life. I just don't want people to be suckered into the 'noble reclamation project' or the Tony Dungy 'second chance' bullshit that the sports media likes to circulate. This is not a noble undertaking, this is a business decision. If he did not possess his physical gifts then the vibe would be completely different. For evidence just look at the millions of ex-cons who scrape by after getting out of work.
And finally, yes, he makes 5% of what he used to (at the moment), but you cannot compare the drop in lifestyle from 200 million - 5 million and say 80k - 20k.
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On September 23 2010 05:13 Whiladan wrote: if Michael Vick was caught involved a cock-fighting ring, I can tell you right now that you could take my posts word for word, substituting the word "chicken" in place of the word "dog". So, if it's ok with you, don't assume that because I come to the defense of dogs, that I value the life of a dog over the life of anything else.
I think you're in the tiny minority on that one. If Vick had been involved in cock fighting, it never would have made national news, and the NFL wouldn't have cared one bit. Guaranteed. Most Americans have or have had dogs as a pet and treat them like children. When someone abuses dogs, I think people vicariously experience the abuse of their own dog and get outraged. Not only is that feeling irrational, but the fact that very few people care what happens to farm animals makes it hypocritical as well. I know I'm not the first person to bring this up, but I think you guys are too easily dismissing the significance that dogs have in our society.
In any case, Vick was a big deal in Atlanta. Atlanta was a baseball town in the '90s, and no one gave a shit about the Falcons until Vick showed up. Half the fans at games in the mid 2000's had #7 jerseys. Maybe he wasn't the best QB ever there, but he got the city excited about the team for once.
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On September 23 2010 06:55 ShadowDrgn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 05:13 Whiladan wrote: if Michael Vick was caught involved a cock-fighting ring, I can tell you right now that you could take my posts word for word, substituting the word "chicken" in place of the word "dog". So, if it's ok with you, don't assume that because I come to the defense of dogs, that I value the life of a dog over the life of anything else. I think you're in the tiny minority on that one. If Vick had been involved in cock fighting, it never would have made national news, and the NFL wouldn't have cared one bit. Guaranteed.
This is almost as laughably bad as the geniuses who stated that Peyton Manning wouldn't even be suspended if he drowned and shocked little puppies because he's white. I mean, my god.
Please just think for a minute about how utterly ridiculous your statement is.
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On September 23 2010 06:54 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 06:24 Tazza wrote:On September 23 2010 06:04 Manifesto7 wrote:On September 23 2010 04:41 Tazza wrote: And Manifesto7, I agree with your points, but it just seems that people care awfully more about dog's lives than any other kinds of lives. I mean, do you know how many chickens are brought for the sole purpose to eat them? Think of how many chickens that is. Do you know how many people in the world are murdered or die unjustly deaths? And yet, we don't really care too much about that, but all of a sudden, when a dog dies, we just go nuts. And Manifesto7, the only thing that matters, is that we agree that vick should get a second chance. Thats all im saying. I don't condone dog fighting and never will. And another good point brought up was that Vick grew up in dog-fighting. It is very common in newsport news virginia. Chickens? You are equating dog fighting with food production? That is ridiculous. Animal cruelty touches a cord with a lot of people, and cannot be compared straight up with humans. Vick gets his second chance because he has the ability to play a sport that is a multi-billion dollar industry. The end. There is no social commentary about second chances going on here, no "this is a good guy, let's give him a second chance". If it was really about second chances, well, his first charge of drug possession would have taken care of it. If you or I had done what he had done we would be struggling to find minimum wage work. He is making more than 5 million dollars this year (or, more than I will make in 2 lifetimes teaching). Hell of a second chance. You can't say that his weed in a bottle thing would have changed his entire career. I don't think you can count that as his second chance. Sure he may have gotten suspended or something and paid a fine, but he wouldn't have had to spend 18 months in jail, lost his 130 million dollar contract, and wouldn't have lost all his endorsements. Think about this, he lost all his endorsements and his contract, which would equal to roughly 200 million dollars. And now, this year, he is getting paid 5 million. So he is getting paid arguably about 5 percent of what he would have and would be making. Does your job pay 20 times more than minimum wage? And yes, he is getting paid a lot more than what all of us make because he is a superstar athlete. But, can we do something about it? No, athletics are a lot about genes, and natural skill, so its really hard to be pro at it. And if you watched that movie Food, Inc. I would definitely call what they do to chickens and cows animal abuse. These animals are fed growth hormones, live in tight packed quarters, and most chickens never see daylight once in their lives. The food companies are really starting to take over a lot of politics and stuff. If you look at who works for the FDA, a lot of those people work for food companies. While I am aware of the issues in the food industry, I have no problem drawing a line between that and what Vick was charged with. Incomparable in my opinion. And sure, the water bottle incident wouldn't have cost him everything (but it is another example of something a 'regular' member of society would have suffered greatly for). At the end of the day if he makes his millions, good for him. I do not think he should wear sack cloth and ashes for the rest of his life. I just don't want people to be suckered into the 'noble reclamation project' or the Tony Dungy 'second chance' bullshit that the sports media likes to circulate. This is not a noble undertaking, this is a business decision. If he did not possess his physical gifts then the vibe would be completely different. For evidence just look at the millions of ex-cons who scrape by after getting out of work. And finally, yes, he makes 5% of what he used to (at the moment), but you cannot compare the drop in lifestyle from 200 million - 5 million and say 80k - 20k. I think sports is about second chances though. Just look at Kobe Bryant. He is remembered as a great nba player and 5 time champion now, instead of a rapist. I think Mike Vick can achieve this one day. And going back to the pay difference thing, remember that Vick can only play until his age tells him to stop. And with athletes stupider than Vick, you know that once they see that first contract, they're gonna blow it up and spend all of it and become homeless once they're older. A minimum wage person though, will have a steady job, and chances to move up for a long time. Once people see that he is a responsible worker, he will get the chance to move up. I think Vick should get this oppurtunity too. Also, athletes always have the chance they will get injured, and that leaves them without a talent to earn money.
And, I think that had michael vick been lizard-fighting, or snake-fighting, or cockROACH fighting or what not, no one would have cared. But since it was a dog, "man's best friend" a lot of people were very upset. I am still amazed at how much dogs play a role in our society. And I still believe that the food industry is terrible. What they are doing to the race of chickens as a whole is far worse than what vick did to dogs.
And Roffles, I totally understand where you're coming from. I am still an Atlanta Falcons fan, and I believe Vick was very inconsistent. He often missed games, and had a very inaccurate arm. He also missed the playoffs after leading the team to a NFC championship game. But I think whats more important is that Vick got us there, and we became relevant again. Remember, the falcons were terrible after that one super bowl and the deion sanders era.
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man u sure do love michael vick
anyway as a Philadelphia eagles native/fan, i'm quite happy with the insertion of vick over kolb i like my quarterbacks black (and i'm still pissed eagles got rid of mcnabb)
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Osaka26966 Posts
On September 23 2010 07:22 Tazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 06:54 Manifesto7 wrote:On September 23 2010 06:24 Tazza wrote:On September 23 2010 06:04 Manifesto7 wrote:On September 23 2010 04:41 Tazza wrote: And Manifesto7, I agree with your points, but it just seems that people care awfully more about dog's lives than any other kinds of lives. I mean, do you know how many chickens are brought for the sole purpose to eat them? Think of how many chickens that is. Do you know how many people in the world are murdered or die unjustly deaths? And yet, we don't really care too much about that, but all of a sudden, when a dog dies, we just go nuts. And Manifesto7, the only thing that matters, is that we agree that vick should get a second chance. Thats all im saying. I don't condone dog fighting and never will. And another good point brought up was that Vick grew up in dog-fighting. It is very common in newsport news virginia. Chickens? You are equating dog fighting with food production? That is ridiculous. Animal cruelty touches a cord with a lot of people, and cannot be compared straight up with humans. Vick gets his second chance because he has the ability to play a sport that is a multi-billion dollar industry. The end. There is no social commentary about second chances going on here, no "this is a good guy, let's give him a second chance". If it was really about second chances, well, his first charge of drug possession would have taken care of it. If you or I had done what he had done we would be struggling to find minimum wage work. He is making more than 5 million dollars this year (or, more than I will make in 2 lifetimes teaching). Hell of a second chance. You can't say that his weed in a bottle thing would have changed his entire career. I don't think you can count that as his second chance. Sure he may have gotten suspended or something and paid a fine, but he wouldn't have had to spend 18 months in jail, lost his 130 million dollar contract, and wouldn't have lost all his endorsements. Think about this, he lost all his endorsements and his contract, which would equal to roughly 200 million dollars. And now, this year, he is getting paid 5 million. So he is getting paid arguably about 5 percent of what he would have and would be making. Does your job pay 20 times more than minimum wage? And yes, he is getting paid a lot more than what all of us make because he is a superstar athlete. But, can we do something about it? No, athletics are a lot about genes, and natural skill, so its really hard to be pro at it. And if you watched that movie Food, Inc. I would definitely call what they do to chickens and cows animal abuse. These animals are fed growth hormones, live in tight packed quarters, and most chickens never see daylight once in their lives. The food companies are really starting to take over a lot of politics and stuff. If you look at who works for the FDA, a lot of those people work for food companies. While I am aware of the issues in the food industry, I have no problem drawing a line between that and what Vick was charged with. Incomparable in my opinion. And sure, the water bottle incident wouldn't have cost him everything (but it is another example of something a 'regular' member of society would have suffered greatly for). At the end of the day if he makes his millions, good for him. I do not think he should wear sack cloth and ashes for the rest of his life. I just don't want people to be suckered into the 'noble reclamation project' or the Tony Dungy 'second chance' bullshit that the sports media likes to circulate. This is not a noble undertaking, this is a business decision. If he did not possess his physical gifts then the vibe would be completely different. For evidence just look at the millions of ex-cons who scrape by after getting out of work. And finally, yes, he makes 5% of what he used to (at the moment), but you cannot compare the drop in lifestyle from 200 million - 5 million and say 80k - 20k. I think sports is about second chances though. Just look at Kobe Bryant. He is remembered as a great nba player and 5 time champion now, instead of a rapist. I think Mike Vick can achieve this one day. And going back to the pay difference thing, remember that Vick can only play until his age tells him to stop. And with athletes stupider than Vick, you know that once they see that first contract, they're gonna blow it up and spend all of it and become homeless once they're older. A minimum wage person though, will have a steady job, and chances to move up for a long time. Once people see that he is a responsible worker, he will get the chance to move up. I think Vick should get this oppurtunity too. Also, athletes always have the chance they will get injured, and that leaves them without a talent to earn money.
That is because you buy into the narrative that sports media writes about again and again. That second chance thing is great, as long as you have the qualifying physical talents to back it up. As for everyone else, tough luck.
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On September 23 2010 08:17 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 07:22 Tazza wrote:On September 23 2010 06:54 Manifesto7 wrote:On September 23 2010 06:24 Tazza wrote:On September 23 2010 06:04 Manifesto7 wrote:On September 23 2010 04:41 Tazza wrote: And Manifesto7, I agree with your points, but it just seems that people care awfully more about dog's lives than any other kinds of lives. I mean, do you know how many chickens are brought for the sole purpose to eat them? Think of how many chickens that is. Do you know how many people in the world are murdered or die unjustly deaths? And yet, we don't really care too much about that, but all of a sudden, when a dog dies, we just go nuts. And Manifesto7, the only thing that matters, is that we agree that vick should get a second chance. Thats all im saying. I don't condone dog fighting and never will. And another good point brought up was that Vick grew up in dog-fighting. It is very common in newsport news virginia. Chickens? You are equating dog fighting with food production? That is ridiculous. Animal cruelty touches a cord with a lot of people, and cannot be compared straight up with humans. Vick gets his second chance because he has the ability to play a sport that is a multi-billion dollar industry. The end. There is no social commentary about second chances going on here, no "this is a good guy, let's give him a second chance". If it was really about second chances, well, his first charge of drug possession would have taken care of it. If you or I had done what he had done we would be struggling to find minimum wage work. He is making more than 5 million dollars this year (or, more than I will make in 2 lifetimes teaching). Hell of a second chance. You can't say that his weed in a bottle thing would have changed his entire career. I don't think you can count that as his second chance. Sure he may have gotten suspended or something and paid a fine, but he wouldn't have had to spend 18 months in jail, lost his 130 million dollar contract, and wouldn't have lost all his endorsements. Think about this, he lost all his endorsements and his contract, which would equal to roughly 200 million dollars. And now, this year, he is getting paid 5 million. So he is getting paid arguably about 5 percent of what he would have and would be making. Does your job pay 20 times more than minimum wage? And yes, he is getting paid a lot more than what all of us make because he is a superstar athlete. But, can we do something about it? No, athletics are a lot about genes, and natural skill, so its really hard to be pro at it. And if you watched that movie Food, Inc. I would definitely call what they do to chickens and cows animal abuse. These animals are fed growth hormones, live in tight packed quarters, and most chickens never see daylight once in their lives. The food companies are really starting to take over a lot of politics and stuff. If you look at who works for the FDA, a lot of those people work for food companies. While I am aware of the issues in the food industry, I have no problem drawing a line between that and what Vick was charged with. Incomparable in my opinion. And sure, the water bottle incident wouldn't have cost him everything (but it is another example of something a 'regular' member of society would have suffered greatly for). At the end of the day if he makes his millions, good for him. I do not think he should wear sack cloth and ashes for the rest of his life. I just don't want people to be suckered into the 'noble reclamation project' or the Tony Dungy 'second chance' bullshit that the sports media likes to circulate. This is not a noble undertaking, this is a business decision. If he did not possess his physical gifts then the vibe would be completely different. For evidence just look at the millions of ex-cons who scrape by after getting out of work. And finally, yes, he makes 5% of what he used to (at the moment), but you cannot compare the drop in lifestyle from 200 million - 5 million and say 80k - 20k. I think sports is about second chances though. Just look at Kobe Bryant. He is remembered as a great nba player and 5 time champion now, instead of a rapist. I think Mike Vick can achieve this one day. And going back to the pay difference thing, remember that Vick can only play until his age tells him to stop. And with athletes stupider than Vick, you know that once they see that first contract, they're gonna blow it up and spend all of it and become homeless once they're older. A minimum wage person though, will have a steady job, and chances to move up for a long time. Once people see that he is a responsible worker, he will get the chance to move up. I think Vick should get this oppurtunity too. Also, athletes always have the chance they will get injured, and that leaves them without a talent to earn money. That is because you buy into the narrative that sports media writes about again and again. That second chance thing is great, as long as you have the qualifying physical talents to back it up. As for everyone else, tough luck. I think that its not about the physical talents as much as it is about the will to change. In non-sport related stuff, if someone steals something from a store, they're gonna have that on their permanent record, but they will get other jobs, and get chances to redeem themselves and to move up in their respected jobs. Michael Vick, for a while after he was out of jail, had a very tough time finding a team. No team, even teams that desperately need a qb like the lions or the vikings(before favre) wouldn't take a chance on that guy. Philadelphia too, was very skeptical and only agreed to sign him after mcnabb convinced him. But in the end, vick got the chance to play when kolb got injured, and took his best shot. Now, he gets to start for an nfl team again, and the rest is up to him. He can become that spoiled kid in atlanta, or he can grow up, and become a better player, and a better human being
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as a atlanta native... GO VICK :D
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On September 23 2010 02:55 Hawk wrote: Holy shitballs! I understand being in awe of his speed and raw athleticism, but Vick was NEVER even remotely close to being an elite in his sport like those two. I'm gonna break this down into bullets, because it's easier.
* No Superbowls (not the best barometer for success, but what the hell, since you somehow compared to MJ) * Career 54% passer and has been in the league since 2001. (currently at 66% through two games. You don't have to be a statistic nerd to see where this goes. If you think a guy who sat out two years of football will not just improve, but improve his accuracy a full 20% and keep it there, you are insane. * Terrible at reading plays * Never once close to leading any QB statistics. His career averages are most comparable to the 2009 versions of Ryan Fitzpatrick, Delhomme, Cassell, Freeman, Sanchez, Quinn and Russell. Great company! * People always say that you can't just take his passer stats. OK. Add in all his rushing yards and TDs, all his fumbles, all his sacks. That's like 3,200yds a season on average, around 20 TDs and just about as many turnovers. You're in the same territory as the above guys, ie. right around 15th in the league or so. * I particularly loved the shit in 2006, where every analyst was gushing that he finally arrived because he threw more than two TDS in a single game for the first time in his fucking career—IN HIS SIXTH SEASON. This was after Vick opened the '06 season by having a QB rating better than 77 once in the first five games that season.... and that two game span accounted for nearly 1/3 of his season's production.
This pretty much sums up my views on michael vick. He's always been so hyped up for the last decade and honestly he's never done anything worth mentioning imo. Plus he's always been getting himself in trouble from the get go...
Guess we'll see how the rest of this season goes tho, who knows
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Im glad a hero of yours is someone who tortures and kill living things.
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On September 23 2010 05:47 Whiladan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 05:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On September 23 2010 05:13 Whiladan wrote:On September 23 2010 04:41 Tazza wrote: Wow, there are so so many pessimists out there. Whiladan, you don't believe in second chances? Isn't that what america is about? And its not about people can, and do change. Although its not all the time, it happens. We will see if Vick changes or not in the next few years.
And I've read on this post that some people on here actually want vick to die, or "put him down." But if you object that he should never play football, or be in jail forever, or be executed, that means you don't believe in the American justice system. And Manifesto7, I agree with your points, but it just seems that people care awfully more about dog's lives than any other kinds of lives. I mean, do you know how many chickens are brought for the sole purpose to eat them? Think of how many chickens that is. Do you know how many people in the world are murdered or die unjustly deaths? And yet, we don't really care too much about that, but all of a sudden, when a dog dies, we just go nuts. And Manifesto7, the only thing that matters, is that we agree that vick should get a second chance. Thats all im saying. I don't condone dog fighting and never will. And another good point brought up was that Vick grew up in dog-fighting. It is very common in newsport news virginia.
I just find it wierd that so many people believe he should have gotten a longer sentence and all that. Which brings me to another point, if you don't think vick should have gotten a chance, then what do you think should be done to him? And what should he do for the rest of his life, if he even deserves a life? Like, I said at the beginning of my post, I was defending my views. If you don't agree with them, that's fine. But since they've been challenged (again), I guess I have to defend them (again). No, I don't believe in second chances, as I previously said. Sure, the Justice system would like to believe that most criminals can be reformed and returned to society as normal, law abiding citizens. I disagree. See my above post for why. This thread is, unless I'm mistaken, intended to be about Michael Vick...if Michael Vick was caught involved a cock-fighting ring, I can tell you right now that you could take my posts word for word, substituting the word "chicken" in place of the word "dog". So, if it's ok with you, don't assume that because I come to the defense of dogs, that I value the life of a dog over the life of anything else. The only distinction I honestly make between the values of two lives is between the life of the innocent, and the life of the guilty...(except spiders, spiders are K.O.S.) Sure, he can live out the rest of his days peaceably as an NFL player. I'll bet he sleeps easier at night than I do, as well. I don't care. All I care is that we not pretend that 18 months of jail time makes up for the suffering and death of the dogs affected by his actions. Cool, he grew up in dog-fighting, dog-fighting is common where he is from. Therefore, that makes it OK? No. That is last-resort logic. That's like saying 1960's America grew up around racism, so people should have chilled out with the Civil Rights Movement, right? All I care that happens to Michael Vick, and I don't care when or where, is that he gets his due...his "eye for an eye" treatment. That's all that really matters to me. I've never understood the need for punishment, in the "eye for an eye" sense that you speak of. The only thing in societies interest is that he ceases to commit the crimes he was guilty of in the past. If he never harms another animal or person as a result of his prison sentence or rehabilitation then that's a victory for society at large. Punishment doesn't benefit anyone but those who would feel some sort of relief from it. It doesn't change what he did, it only satisfies peoples sense of "justice". Peoples feelings aren't important, certainly not more important than a mans life or freedom. Again, this ties in with my "no second chances" view. Sure, everybody has something to say about why strong opinions such as my own are wrong, I'm used to that. Since this no longer seems to be a discussion on why Michael Vick is/is not a terrible person (or maybe it never was...if so, forgive me for derailing the topic), I'll generalize: Absolutely, my feelings are not important (you did not specify me, but I feel it's fair to assume). I'm not trying to change the world, I'm just posting my opinion in a blog. Regardless, CIVILization should be held to a certain standard of CIVILity. It's not my place, nor your place, nor any single person's place to dictate this standard. Everyone decides. Which obviously indicates that the list of "unforgivable crimes" society adheres to is going to be much shorter than my own. The important thing to note is that little rule they teach us in elementary school..."Majority rules, minority rights". While my opinion of "no second chances" is not the opinion held by the majority here or ANYWHERE, it is still exactly as valid as yours. I won't even bother going over the massive hole in logic of "people's feelings don't matter" in regards to the families of murder victims.
Of course civilization should be kept civil. Punishing people doesn't stop them from committing crimes, it makes the people who hate the criminal feel better.
What I mean to say is that peoples feelings don't matter enough to warrant hurting another person. As long as Michael Vick doesn't hurt animals again, there is no issue. People who love animals would probably feel better if Michael Vick was tortured the same way the animals were but there is no practical reason to do that, it's just emotional bullshit.
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Vick just played a great game against Jacksonville. He passed for 291 yards with 3 touchdowns, no picks on 17-31 and had a 119.2 quarterback rating. He ran 4 times for 30 yards and a touchdown. Eagles won 28-3. But the Eagles o-line was just terrible. Vick faced constant pressure the entire time.
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Go Vick.. he deserves another shot after all the shit that went his way. He paid his dues, now let him play. I'm glad he's doing well in Philadelphia.
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I can't read the 5pages to, I'm assuming, re-post that he has not yet to play a good secondary/defense in general. Let's all save our praise for him until he plays a good D.
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