• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:56
CEST 15:56
KST 22:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy9ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool48Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
Pros React To: SoulKey vs Ample ASL21 General Discussion RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site KK Platform will provide 1 million CNY Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group B [ASL21] Ro24 Group A
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Darkest Dungeon Path of Exile
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1056 users

My Patch Changes - Page 2

Blogs > Saracen
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Tdelamay
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada548 Posts
September 21 2010 22:23 GMT
#21
You had that same idea as me about the Corruption change. I to think that it would feel more appropriate as an aoe.
This road isn't leading anywhere...
dreamend
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
64 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 14:41:58
September 21 2010 22:36 GMT
#22
wait I get the feeling this is a joke but I can't tell
Wr3k
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2533 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 23:37:39
September 21 2010 22:55 GMT
#23
The 7 larva cap is pretty retarded (as if the mechanic needs to be more unforgiving), and roaches burrowing through cliffs would also be retarded. Other than that I like alot of these ideas. I honestly think the reason Z has no options is that its extremely difficult to make it into the midgame with a solid economy.
ZapRoffo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5544 Posts
September 21 2010 22:59 GMT
#24
That's wayyyy too many buffs for zerg, games have had big balance shifts with way less than that. This would be like a tsunami of shifting.

Or since I think they are a lot of good ideas, and I think more could be added to the game, improve the other races more too.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man
ghermination
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States2851 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 23:03:23
September 21 2010 23:03 GMT
#25
I think you've overdone it a bit.
Roaches should get 2 armor back, but stay at 2 supply.
Hydras should move faster, maybe get knocked down to 10+2 armored damage because their DPS is pretty crazy.

Charge should be on the cyber core with the same cost in minerals/gas.

Marauders shouldn't be able to stim, OR stim should do 1/3 of their HP.
U Gotta Skate.
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
September 21 2010 23:41 GMT
#26
Guys im pretty sure this is sarcasm
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
Fake)Plants
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States373 Posts
September 21 2010 23:43 GMT
#27
I'm into the combining of the templar buildings. As it stands right now, if you see a dark shrine; "derrr, guess ima get some detection, nice phallic building yo."

Combining the two buildings would release the terror again.
Q( ' '(Q
Tazza
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Korea (South)1678 Posts
September 21 2010 23:45 GMT
#28
On September 22 2010 06:54 Slayer91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 22 2010 06:49 Tazza wrote:
No, 5 capped larvae would be terrible. There would be nothing for zerg anymore while terrans have mules, protoss chrono boost, and queens would be a lot more worthless now



Strict is good. If I have to macro well but I get units that are worth a damn, I'll take it.
Spreading creep and getting speed upgardes are not "options". Creep is good. Speed upgrade is good. Combination is better. You can't just spread creep where you want any more. People are scanning and using obs to assassinate creep tumours a lot more.

I just think that the other races have much much easier macro, and the larvae thing helped zerg out by evening it out, although its mechanics are harder than other races. I think with 5 capped larvae, it would be much more like SC1 where you need 250 apm to play decently. Zerg already needs around 50 more apm than other races with the same skill level. I don't see why zerg needs to require more apm than it already does
Monokeros
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States2493 Posts
September 22 2010 02:43 GMT
#29
Saracen I think you're going a little far with the neural parasite I for one wouldn't agree with all 3 buffs maybe 2/3, and a nerfed 3rd like (15seconds instead of 20)
Keep the Dream Alive twitch.tv/monokerros
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45387 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 03:11:14
September 22 2010 03:09 GMT
#30
On September 22 2010 06:13 Saracen wrote:
Decrease charge research time and cost


THANK YOU.

Pretty good stuff overall (I like the innovation!), but Charge should absolutely be 150/150, not 200/200.

I'd only add that Marauders should cost 50 gas rather than 25. I think that simple nerf would be all it takes to lessen the cries of imbalance of the Terran bio ball.

Nice OP
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
iEchoic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1776 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 04:00:28
September 22 2010 03:53 GMT
#31
I literally don't think any Terran player has ever said Thors or Hellions are underpowered. You're just constructing strawmen to tear down.

Roaches burrowing through cliffs? Lol wtf? So basically you just created the most powerful 'cloaked' unit in the entire game, and if you don't have detection at every single part of the perimeter of your base, you can have an entire army pop up in the middle of your mineral line an insta-kill all your workers and your nexus/cc? Yeah...

I'm not sure if that's a serious suggestion or not. The hydra suggestion isn't bad though (bonus to armored, less damage to light).
vileEchoic -- clanvile.com
AraqirG
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States266 Posts
September 22 2010 04:18 GMT
#32
On September 22 2010 06:59 FabledIntegral wrote:
I don't really agree with how you're trying to balance things. I'm not a fan of bonus damage in the first place, however, so keep that in mind. If it's works without it, no need to change it.

I'd sooner see...
+ Show Spoiler +

Zerg:

- Burrow: Changed back to 50/50 from 100/100.
- Roach movement speed when burrowed increased by .5.
- Tunneling Claw research time reduced by 20%, regen increased to 15 from 5 (previously increased to 10 from 5) when burrowed. Tunneling claws once again increases regeneration rate when not burrowed to 1 hp/s.
- Hydralisk Range Upgrade Cost reduced to 100/100 from 150/150.
- Hydralisk Speed Upgrade (researchable at Hive): increases hydralisk speed by .5.
- Both Zerglings and Hydralisks can instantly burrow like Roaches do, instead of having an animation and doing it slowly.
- Overseer cost: Changed to 25/75 from 50/100.
- Adrenal Glands: Increases Zergling attack speed by 33% (from 20%)
- Ultralisk: Buildtime reduced to 80% of current buildtime, attack reduced from +25 to armor to +15 to armor.
- Corrupter Range increased by 1
- Infestor neural parasite cost reduced to 100/100, energy cost reduced by 25, can channel for 20s (from 12s).
- Larvae capped at 7 per hatchery (3 for auto building, 4 for inject). Next inject can be injected, however timer will not start until there is 3 or less larave on hatchery.

Terran:

- Bunker cannot be salvagable when under attack. Salvage time increased by 50%. Bunker build time increased by +5s.
- Concussive shells cost increased to 100/100 (from 50/50)
- Siege tank attack in siege mode increased to 60 (from 50), now has 1s delay between shot fired and hitting target
- SCVs using repair now are given same priority as if using attack command
- Thor preattack delay for 150 MM cannons reduced by 50%, will slow down an ultra (similar effect to Marauder concussives) when under barrage (same with colossus, instead of stunning however).
- Reactor build time reduced by 8s
- Mule now has a cooldown to cast of 10s.

Protoss:

- Warpgate research time reduced by 20%, cost increased to 100/100
- Charge research time reduced by 20%, cost reduced to 100/100 from 200/200
- Dark Shrine cost reduced to 100/150 from 100/250.
- Observer cost reduced to 25/75 from 25/100
- Observer speed + Warp Prism speed combined into a single upgrade costing 100/100.
- Archon splash damage increased (slightly)
- Carrier build time reduced to 90s (from 120s)
- Mothership buildtime reduced to 120 s (from 160s).
- Mothership attack increased to 12 (from 6)
- Vortex spell casts immediately, range increased
- Void Ray build time increased by 15%, damage vs armored reduced by 33% but time in order to reach full charge reduced by 33% (can tweak numbers, but essentially will charge a lot faster vs a single target, but will be less effective killing mass amounts of units over time. Would be more effective vs units like vikings if it could get to that higher damage faster). Damage vs massive remains (thus significantly more effective vs BC's, Carriers, Thors, Ultras, Broodlords, etc. than currently).
- Increased time to construct gateway by 6s, reduced time to build Cybernetics core by 6s (delays initial zealots in zealot rushes, but not reinforcing ones. Also does not affect stalker timing).

EDIT: Really like your "can't build buildings at base of ramp" idea.



Wow, I really like these changes (although I don't agree with all of them)

I think a lot of these would significantly improve the game. Very well done.
Sephy90
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1785 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 08:14:05
September 22 2010 05:03 GMT
#33
On September 22 2010 06:59 FabledIntegral wrote:
I don't really agree with how you're trying to balance things. I'm not a fan of bonus damage in the first place, however, so keep that in mind. If it's works without it, no need to change it.

I'd sooner see...

+ Show Spoiler +
Zerg:

- Burrow: Changed back to 50/50 from 100/100.
- Roach movement speed when burrowed increased by .5.
- Tunneling Claw research time reduced by 20%, regen increased to 15 from 5 (previously increased to 10 from 5) when burrowed. Tunneling claws once again increases regeneration rate when not burrowed to 1 hp/s.
- Hydralisk Range Upgrade Cost reduced to 100/100 from 150/150.
- Hydralisk Speed Upgrade (researchable at Hive): increases hydralisk speed by .5.
- Both Zerglings and Hydralisks can instantly burrow like Roaches do, instead of having an animation and doing it slowly.
- Overseer cost: Changed to 25/75 from 50/100.
- Adrenal Glands: Increases Zergling attack speed by 33% (from 20%)
- Ultralisk: Buildtime reduced to 80% of current buildtime, attack reduced from +25 to armor to +15 to armor.
- Corrupter Range increased by 1
- Infestor neural parasite cost reduced to 100/100, energy cost reduced by 25, can channel for 20s (from 12s).
- Larvae capped at 7 per hatchery (3 for auto building, 4 for inject). Next inject can be injected, however timer will not start until there is 3 or less larave on hatchery.

Terran:

- Bunker cannot be salvagable when under attack. Salvage time increased by 50%. Bunker build time increased by +5s.
- Concussive shells cost increased to 100/100 (from 50/50)
- Siege tank attack in siege mode increased to 60 (from 50), now has 1s delay between shot fired and hitting target
- SCVs using repair now are given same priority as if using attack command
- Thor preattack delay for 150 MM cannons reduced by 50%, will slow down an ultra (similar effect to Marauder concussives) when under barrage (same with colossus, instead of stunning however).
- Reactor build time reduced by 8s
- Mule now has a cooldown to cast of 10s.

Protoss:

- Warpgate research time reduced by 20%, cost increased to 100/100
- Charge research time reduced by 20%, cost reduced to 100/100 from 200/200
- Dark Shrine cost reduced to 100/150 from 100/250.
- Observer cost reduced to 25/75 from 25/100
- Observer speed + Warp Prism speed combined into a single upgrade costing 100/100.
- Archon splash damage increased (slightly)
- Carrier build time reduced to 90s (from 120s)
- Mothership buildtime reduced to 120 s (from 160s).
- Mothership attack increased to 12 (from 6)
- Vortex spell casts immediately, range increased
- Void Ray build time increased by 15%, damage vs armored reduced by 33% but time in order to reach full charge reduced by 33% (can tweak numbers, but essentially will charge a lot faster vs a single target, but will be less effective killing mass amounts of units over time. Would be more effective vs units like vikings if it could get to that higher damage faster). Damage vs massive remains (thus significantly more effective vs BC's, Carriers, Thors, Ultras, Broodlords, etc. than currently).
- Increased time to construct gateway by 6s, reduced time to build Cybernetics core by 6s (delays initial zealots in zealot rushes, but not reinforcing ones. Also does not affect stalker timing).

EDIT: Really like your "can't build buildings at base of ramp" idea.

The only reason why bonus damage is in the game is I believe Blizzard tried to change their "damage system" from BW. In BW it was this unit did 50% damage to this type of unit and did 100% to that type of unit. Example: Hydras did half damage to zealots and zerglings, basically light type units and did full damage against medium type units like Dragoons/Reavers and such. In SC2 instead of having to go look online to see which unit did X amount of damage they just implemented it into the game for you so you can see how much damage a certain unit does. You can't have a unit doing full damage to everything, it wouldn't be balanced that way, some units need to have the upper hand on specific units.
"So I turned the lights off at night and practiced by myself"
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Team League
11:00
Group A
WardiTV622
RotterdaM544
IndyStarCraft 269
TKL 232
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 544
IndyStarCraft 252
TKL 216
LamboSC2 171
Hui .128
Rex 83
MindelVK 54
Railgan 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 52445
Jaedong 3044
Mini 943
BeSt 804
EffOrt 752
Killer 623
Shuttle 444
actioN 425
Stork 388
ggaemo 381
[ Show more ]
firebathero 326
Rush 305
ZerO 298
Hyuk 272
Soulkey 268
Zeus 227
Last 133
Light 132
Larva 120
hero 87
ToSsGirL 81
PianO 71
Sharp 70
sSak 69
Sea.KH 61
Hyun 54
sorry 49
Bale 38
JYJ 33
Aegong 33
Movie 20
Sacsri 16
Rock 16
IntoTheRainbow 16
Sexy 15
GoRush 14
Terrorterran 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
SilentControl 7
ivOry 6
Icarus 6
eros_byul 1
Dota 2
Gorgc9268
BananaSlamJamma1
Counter-Strike
fl0m4478
shoxiejesuss3391
edward6
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor91
Other Games
FrodaN8144
singsing2319
B2W.Neo1582
Liquid`RaSZi1156
Fuzer 192
crisheroes164
KnowMe137
Mew2King47
ZerO(Twitch)17
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV101
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 1
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 14
• HeavenSC 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV550
League of Legends
• Nemesis4202
• Jankos1869
Upcoming Events
BSL
5h 4m
Replay Cast
10h 4m
Replay Cast
19h 4m
Afreeca Starleague
20h 4m
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
21h 4m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 2h
OSC
1d 10h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 20h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 20h
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
BSL
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-27
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
Escore Tournament S2: W1
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.