I'm 26 yrs old, and I'm undergoing a kind of quarter life crisis. As I sit in my office churning out yet another financial model, I can't help but wonder to myself, "Is this it? This is what I'm going to be doing for the next 40+ years of my life?"
I do like my job. It pays well, my boss is great, my coworkers are okay, and it's pretty intellectually challenging. And perhaps most importantly, I take pride and satisfaction in doing a good job.
Slowly but surely the feeling has been getting worse...
But I don't love my job. And it doesn't fulfill me. That's what slowly eats at me. Am I settling for a mediocre life?
The fact that I'm likely to get married within a year only makes the feeling worse. I feel like I've got this looming deadline where I have to have a solid career by the time I'm married so I can provide stability for my wife and soon after our kids. (Craziness...being a father!)
So one year -- one year to figure out if finance is really what I want to do for the rest of my life.
Do I dare...?
So I pose to question to you, my fellow TLers: do you like your job? Or is it something to get you by while you look for your true passion in life? How are you going about discovering it? And am I being retarded in thinking I need to figure out my passion in a year before I'm stuck in finance by default?
(Please vote only if you've worked full-time for at least a couple of years)
Poll: Do you like your job?
No, it's just something to get me by until I find my true passion. (21)
39%
No, but I'm too lazy/afraid to look for something else. (16)
30%
Yes, I've found my life-long career. (9)
17%
Meh / my career is not important to me. (8)
15%
54 total votes
Your vote: Do you like your job?
(Vote): Yes, I've found my life-long career. (Vote): No, it's just something to get me by until I find my true passion. (Vote): No, but I'm too lazy/afraid to look for something else. (Vote): Meh / my career is not important to me.
Poll: Once married, is it too late to drop your career to explore other jobs
No, the real deadline starts when she's pregnant. (24)
45%
No, it's never too late. (19)
36%
Yes, you're a family man now. (5)
9%
It doesn't matter. (5)
9%
53 total votes
Your vote: Once married, is it too late to drop your career to explore other jobs
(Vote): Yes, you're a family man now. (Vote): No, the real deadline starts when she's pregnant. (Vote): No, it's never too late. (Vote): It doesn't matter.
it's interesting that you wrote this thread at the exact moment that I felt like I really have to get out of this job. I'm currently sitting in my chair, at my "office," wondering exactly the same thing; is this it?
I'm an environmental engineer, 24 years old, been working for about 2.5 years. Recently, i've been playing with the idea of going back to school to study ecology. I love wildlife and when I first got into environmental engineering, I thought i'd be doing work to preserve the natural environment. Instead, I'm finding that all there really is for an environmental engineer (that pays decently) is to clean up after peoples' messes for other people that are willing to pay for it. There is no glorious "save the world" feeling. It's all, and i mean ALL, governed by how much money the client has. It's really quite depressing.
Sure, there are positions out there that would fulfill me more, but no one is really willing to pay for that kind of work.
In short, the answer is no, i don't really like my job. It's probably also attributed to the fact that my boss is kind of a douche and loves to micromanage pretty much every chance he gets.
lol @ married part.. Oo my uncle married at the age of 18 back then, other people marry at 40+ - thats a totally stupid relation to make, as marriages vary a lot in age.
and at the point of job - i'm a university student, don't have a job in that sense right now. so - not voting.
It's good that you're asking these questions. Don't squash these feelings, look into them more.
I totally get you, but am unable to help you specifically. I just know that in my head, I've postponed the getting married tech upgrade to T3. (i.e. I won't get married before 30s.) (I know I know, 'so I say now'.)
When you get kids, you care about them too much to allow a chance of jeopardizing their well being, so people usually put themselves to second place.
I currently dont like my job, Its not bad, but its boring and completely unchallenging. But Im only here for 3 more months till I go back to school and have to start looking for a full time job. I am currently doing an internship and I only have ~9 months of work at 2 different places of experience. I have put some thought into the problem you seem to be having, and I might just be a cynic, but I came to the conclusion that having a fulfilling job that you love and is your reason that you get up in the morning is bull shit for 95% of the world. If you can find a job like that you are lucky, and I hope it stays fulfilling and awesome, but for the rest of us I think the realistic thing to hope for is a job that you don't mind doing for the compensation.
Im only 22, not even out of school(6 more months of classes) and I already think this, I guess that does make me a cynic, but going forward is the only way to find out if Im right.
I love mine... its intense... but I don't think I'll be doing it for the rest of my life. Screw a pension plan, you only live once. Look into other stuff if you're getting bored and explore your options.
what kind of finance are you doing? i-banking, equity research?
im in finance as well, but since i live in Montreal (which is great since girls are all uber-good looking), but there's pretty much zero finance jobs here, so im a 26 years old unemployed fucker. consider yourself lucky to have a job in your field.
but financial people are supposed to be superior financially. work hard for a few years. build yourself a 500k nest egg. invest it @10%. live off interests or dividends. 50k / year in your pockets whether you wake up or not in the morning. aint bad. Build yourself a list of hobbies or things that passion you, and spend the rest of your life doing them all. theres 168 hours in one week. take 60 hours a week doing nothing but hobbies. 100 hours a week just sleeping or chilling... live a great life.
TSL-Lore, I know exactly how you feel man... it's too bad that you know what you want to do, but the economics of your industry don't work out. It really sucks how money does matter ... or does it?
intrudor, I do equity research. And I have counted myself lucky until this year when all of a sudden all the bulge brackets started paying well again (I'd say at least 25% of my dept has left over the past 8 months due to how sucky our bonuses were this year). And lol, you make it sound so easy to save up 500K, and to earn 10% per year. At the rate I'm going, it'll take me 20 years to save that much =P And if you can make me a guaranteed 10% per year, I'd gladly give you my money and give you 1%/year. (Do you do banking/research too?)
Thanks for all the comments and votes, I really appreciate any older, experienced personal life advice/stories I can get.
I have it even worse than you man. I got my Ph.D. in genetics and now I'm a postdoctoral scholar. But guess what, there is really nowhere to go from here! Only 5% of postdocs get a decent job and that's usually after 6 years of postdoc. Let's review: That's 4 years of college, 6 years of grad school, then 6 years of postdoc to have a 5% chance at a decent job. I'm even considering just teaching Junior College or High School.
They told me science doesn't pay well, but they never told me I wouldn't even get a job!
Wow Greatfall, sorry to hear that man. Do you have any regrets?
krndandaman, thanks for sharing that. I'm really relieved to hear your dad was able to pull it off! And in terms of you finding a passion -- well, I can't exactly give great advice since I haven't found mine yet, but I do have to say the way I know what's NOT my passion is all the part-time jobs, internships and summer jobs I've had. So I really want to encourage you, get as many diverse jobs as possible before your junior year of college when your internships actually do matter.
I dislike my job but I have no idea what else I'm gonna do and I'm too lazy/afraid to look for something else so long as this brings in the money. And it's never too late to change careers, but you do have to think carefully about a steady income if she's pregnant, of course.
My dad was a truck driver until he got my mom pregnant, then he started work in the factory (so he wouldn't be gone all week on the road). When the kids were grown up enough to take care of themselves (12-15), my dad went back to being a truck driver (he was 45 at the time). It was tough as hell at first, figuring everything out again, but after 6 months of getting the hang of it and tons of stress around the house, he was much, much happier.
Now that I'm 24, I need to find a job I actually feel like putting effort into... bah.
anyone with half a brain can get around 10% on his money. the average equity annual return, historically, is around 9%....so if you invest in some global index fund, thats pretty much what you'll earn. subtract maybe 1 or 2% for taxes or bad luck...and you still got 7 or 8%. building a nest egg is what takes a bit of self-discpline, but if you're smart, it wont be hard. with 500k, you earn anywhere between 35 and 40k.. but thats DOING NOTHING. even if you "only have 250k", you can still earn like 20k. so you can choose to work like 5 or 6 months per year, and give yourself a nice sweet half-a year vacation time. thats my plan.. right now im unemployed..and since finance in Montreal is like snowboarding in jamaica, it looks like ill be forced to work in accounting....blehhh....whatever, i dont consider 9 to 5 the path to happiness. its only a means to get there.
I love this thread, and it prompted me to ask these questions: If your parents who worked at office jobs (engineering, finance, research, etc.) told you to get an office job, will you actually do it because they told you to? Are office jobs really the greatest jobs in the world because it provides financial security? If not everyone can have a successful/fulfilling career at an office job, then why does our society "mass spam" that office jobs are the best jobs? Are office jobs actually harming our health? Why is it that office job workers stop exercising as they get older?
On September 17 2010 06:43 intrudor wrote: anyone with half a brain can get around 10% on his money. the average equity annual return, historically, is around 9%....so if you invest in some global index fund, thats pretty much what you'll earn. subtract maybe 1 or 2% for taxes or bad luck...and you still got 7 or 8%. building a nest egg is what takes a bit of self-discpline, but if you're smart, it wont be hard. with 500k, you earn anywhere between 35 and 40k.. but thats DOING NOTHING. even if you "only have 250k", you can still earn like 20k. so you can choose to work like 5 or 6 months per year, and give yourself a nice sweet half-a year vacation time. thats my plan.. right now im unemployed..and since finance in Montreal is like snowboarding in jamaica, it looks like ill be forced to work in accounting....blehhh....whatever, i dont consider 9 to 5 the path to happiness. its only a means to get there.
haha that's cute.
anyway, for me... well luckily i'm still in school but unfortunately i am graduating soon. ffuuuu im working atm, your standard 9-5 finance job @ a bank and no, i'm not happy with my job (that's not to say it isn't exciting ... it is!). of course it could be a lot worse, i mean i could NOT have a job at all, then i'd be screwed. could it be a lot better? hard to say i think the real problem is that, at least me, i get bored of doing the same thing. it doesn't matter if its playing videogames, writing code, or trading. after months/years of the same thing.. it's no longer fulfilling (could very well still be exciting, don't get me wrong. there's a difference). i think people just need a change once in a while. at least that's my theory for now.. but i am only 21 and definitely dont know very much
a_flayer, that's pretty interesting what your dad did there. I wonder if I'd be able to drop finance for a few years, and then come back to it to support the family? I guess so long as I'm willing to drop out of the stinkin' rat race, I think I can ... =)
intrudor, I'm gonna go out on a limb based on what you've said and say that you've probably never invested any real amount of money (there's at least 5 things I find wrong about your strategy/plan right off the bat). It's one thing to read about 30 year S&P return averages in a "How To Invest For Dummies" book, and it's another to actually do it. Oh, and there's no shame in starting in accounting ... I did. (In fact, I started out as a full-time intern, I had to get promoted to do accounting haha)
On September 17 2010 06:04 Osmoses wrote: There are some people who would cherish the idea of a stable job with a family on the way.
Don't make the mistake of thinking your life has to be about explosions and sex, drugs and rock and roll for it to be worthwhile.
I agree with this. Why do you want fulfillment from a job? Sounds like you have a very positive job anyway. Fulfillment is what the rest of your life is for. Family/Friends, Meeting new people, Playing Sports/ watching OSL Finals/Traveling, going to the Movies, being involved in the community etc. You need to have all of this in your life and put it on a rotation, so that you can be stimulated by various environments and never feel like you've grown stale. If you're around the same people day in and day out, it's hard to get a new perspective. Maybe go travel with your g/f over the weekend to some interesting place, talk to a bunch of new people - it will help you see life in a different light.
Here my current situation: I work at a law firm (my fathers firm to be exact). I already graduated from the University and I plan to pursue law school in about a year from now. To me the current position I am in is definitely not enfatuation.
In fact to be honest I don't even know how happy I will be as an attorney. I do however know that I will be good at the position and that I have already gained a decent amount of legal knowledge just from working.
That being said, I don't know if I will ever be truly happen in my career but as I think more on the subject I have no idea what possibly would make me truly happy. A sports star? A singer? A famous artist? To me these are the things that make people happy in their careers and since none of them could apply to me I'm sure i'll just settle with a job that will allow me to live confortably.
Currently im interning in a tech position at an IB, and no i dont enjoy it at all
However, ive made it very clear that i have the ability and want to work in front office trading positions. I also spent most of my internship networking my ass off to try and secure that position for next year
Tbh, its a short lived job, i doubt i will be doing it past the age of 30, but its a good retirement, and its a job of quality over quantity. Definately what i want to be doing though, i cant see myself doing much else.
I am doing a job until I find what I want to study as. I don't dislike my current job, it doesn't excite me or is any fun either.
You can change career even after having children. My father went back to school when I was 12 or so. It just takes a lot of money pinching and planing, preferably family you can occasionally borrow from for unexpected expenses as well.
il0seonpurpose, we're not engaged yet, but she's in medical school and there are very tight timing attack windows, so I'm pretty sure we're going to get married in summer '11. We've been talking about it for a long time with each other and our parents, we've met each other's families more than just several times, and our parents have met each other as well, so ... yeah =) (but still, I guess you can never know for sure...?)
Man, the more you guys talk about what your parents did, the more I'm getting convinced that dropping my career to find something else isn't the end of the world =) Shoot!
I'm currently working as an AI researcher. I'm a CS major and will be pursuing my Masters and PhD. in this area. I have found the love of my life. I could do this without eating or drinking until the day I die.
Prepare yourselves and enjoy the last days of the information revolution as the robotics revolution is underway!
intrudor, I'm gonna go out on a limb based on what you've said and say that you've probably never invested any real amount of money (there's at least 5 things I find wrong about your strategy/plan right off the bat). It's one thing to read about 30 year S&P return averages in a "How To Invest For Dummies" book, and it's another to actually do it. Oh, and there's no shame in starting in accounting ... I did. (In fact, I started out as a full-time intern, I had to get promoted to do accounting haha)
dude, the only way to earn less than the historical annual return of 9% is to be a bad investor.
roughly speaking, half of the investing public earns more, the other half earns less. if youve earned 5% or even lost money so far, that means you gotta change your investing style lol. nothing wrong with my plan.
Historical returns are not indicative of future returns. Thats like the first disclosure on any prospectus.
As for OP, what it boils down to is your priorities. Are your priorities your career satisfaction in 10-20 year down the line? Is it your future family? Your fiance? Once you have your priorities, you need to ask yourself whether your current job fits into that paradigm. Will this job help you be able to provide for your future family (if that's the reason why you're doing it)?
Personally, I'd switch. We're not really of our parents' generation where you're expected to work a job no matter how shitty just for the pay check. We are fortunate in that we can have choices in our lives in doing what we wish to. Of course within this mentality, you have to accept the responsibility for it as well. I'm in a similar situation that you're in except I don't have a fiance. I could have had one, but I decided that my personal aspirations and holding together a relationship wasn't really compatible. Fortunately (or unfortunately?), I have a lot more flexibility in what I want to do. You're only in your mid 20s once, so go do it.
I like my job right now, but that doesn't mean I will still like it in the future. I don't know what I would do if i had to change since getting trained in other stuff would take a while. I dont think there's anything wrong with changing jobs later on though as long as your finances are alright.
It's not like you have to permanently give up your current career. In my case I'm currently the manager of a private grocery store, I was in the meat department clean-up just three years ago with no experience. I have lived and breathed grocery for the last three years and have remained in school with my hope to pursue my Doctorate in History(don't ask.) I often ask myself if maybe I should just stop after getting my B.A. and simply manage this store; it's extremely demanding since we're private and cannot compete with larger chains in certain ways. Obviously the way we prevail is by working our asses off for less money and taking pride in our work. My boss has always told me to just simply learn everything and try your hardest in everything you do and nothing bad can come of that. Despite him really wanting me to stay in grocery, no one can can just say to you to not do something you want to do. Just remember to absorb everything you possibly can, and if it doesn't work out, who says you can't go back to what you were doing? Maybe you were wrong all along?
For me, knowing that I have an expertise in grocery is a more of a safeguard than throwing away an opportunity, I know it's something I can always return to(plus people always need to eat!)
I do like my job. It pays well, my boss is great, my coworkers are okay, and it's pretty intellectually challenging. And perhaps most importantly, I take pride and satisfaction in doing a good job.
I could say exactly the same. Actually it the case, I like my job, for the same reasons you mentioned. But what you have to think about is not if you like it or not, it's more "will I do this job until I retire ?", "what are the opportunities of evolution in this career path ?" etc.
I work as a business intelligence consultant, but I'm planning to open a restaurant in two or three years. I have a job that pays well, so I'm not in a rush to open it. I prepare my business plan thoroughly, and I will resign when I'm ready.
I'm considering going into finance after I finish my undergrad (I'm an Engineering student, possibly majoring in Applied Mathematics or Financial Engineering), and I'm not really sure how well I'll like it.
From what I hear, it's great pay and stuff, but the actual job itself is awful. I'm thinking I might work there for one or two years (until I'm 24 or 25), and then consider other options (Grad School, Business School, alternative line of work?)
The problem is, I can't think of any line of work that would be truly fulfilling for my conscience.
intrudor, I'm gonna go out on a limb based on what you've said and say that you've probably never invested any real amount of money (there's at least 5 things I find wrong about your strategy/plan right off the bat). It's one thing to read about 30 year S&P return averages in a "How To Invest For Dummies" book, and it's another to actually do it. Oh, and there's no shame in starting in accounting ... I did. (In fact, I started out as a full-time intern, I had to get promoted to do accounting haha)
dude, the only way to earn less than the historical annual return of 9% is to be a bad investor.
roughly speaking, half of the investing public earns more, the other half earns less. if youve earned 5% or even lost money so far, that means you gotta change your investing style lol. nothing wrong with my plan.
Have you ever invested real money? Nothing is that simple in life. There are a lot of emotions tied with stocks. First off, no one invests all of their money. So if you can save up 500k to invest, you better hope 500k is not everything you have. If you were fully invested in 08 and you hit a crash, you lose half your moeny. What do you do? Your livily hood is completely dependent on something you have on control of. Do you leave it in and hope it turns up so you have enough money for the year? Or do you pull your money out thinking it will go worse. If you pull your money out, you now have no income. You spend what you have less, now you are hitting your own income when the market improves. What if the market spikes up and you lose your chance?
The stock market is not that easy to predict. It does not go 8% every year. Some years its 4-5%. Some years its 20%. Some years its -40%. It averages to 7-8% a year over 60 years but you live in spans of 1 years not 60 years.
If you think making money is that easy, you need to do some more research.
On topic: I started in IT consulting. Its pretty fast-paced. I've been here for 3 weeks so far and I am enojoying it. Its completely project based so the environment changes very very often. The project I am working on is huge so there is so much to learn. I bet this will get repetitive soon. I am also like someone who needs change. I can't do the same thing over and over again regardless of what it is. So I will always try to search for something new and different. Even though I like it here, I will probably keep my eyes opened for something even greater and better. I do believe if you get married its gg. Especially if you have a kid. You have more responsibilities. You have dependents. If you quit your job and search for your dream, it will affect your loved ones. I don't plan on getting married until I want to start settling.
@OP, Thank you for this thread. I think your experience is shared by many, and it is nice to be able to hear ppl in this very unique community share their opinions.
I am in a similar position, at 23 years old and having worked for a year in online marketing. I recently interviewed for a position in finance risk analysis for an insurance company (similar to actuarial route, but with more opportunities and pathways). It is a decent change in direction as well as industry and I think I would be happier there. For me its all about work/life balance and intellectual stimulation. However, having said all that, I think its really important to have people around you that you have strong personal connections with (GF, family, best friends, the stronger connections and the more people the better). This reminds me of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. I think everyone should check this out and find whats lacking in their life and find a solution to fulfill it.
@ raptor
On September 17 2010 07:35 EsX_Raptor wrote: I'm currently working as an AI researcher. I'm a CS major and will be pursuing my Masters and PhD. in this area. I have found the love of my life. I could do this without eating or drinking until the day I die.
Prepare yourselves and enjoy the last days of the information revolution as the robotics revolution is underway!
What do you think it is that makes you love what you do right now? Is it something unique to you? Is it the perfect combination of people, variety, intellectual stimulation, low stress, and your personal characteristics that create such an environment that you love?
I think as the only person who responded so positively to the question, you could give the rest of us a lot of insight into what to think about in terms of future direction. What principles do you abide by that led you to your current state?
Hey all, seems like this blog is winding down so I'll wrap it up here.
Thanks everyone for your responses via the blog and PM -- I really appreciate hearing everyone's personal life stories as well as their families'. I really value these kinds of things; my mentality is that if one person can do it, then anyone can do it. And if you and your parents were able to pull it off, then maybe I can too. (Still, it seems about 2/3rds of you think that once I'm married or have kids on the way my career is pretty much settled at that point...)
But you know, I'm still relatively young -- and I have a girlfriend who is completely supportive of me dropping my career to explore other things, despite the fact that she's in med school with no income on the way for a few more years at the least. And while she did say she would ideally want kids earlier than later, she's not really sure about that either since her lifestyle could drastically change depending on what she chooses to specialize in.
So, you know what? Here's to a drastically different life a year from now.
I don't really have any personal experience of which to speak, but I guess I can say what my parents did.
My parents are both Architects, my Dad worked in the industry for about 20 years working his way up from drafting to a corner office type position. My Mom worked in the industry until around 2001, when she started her PhD. Up until about 2008 they worked the 9-5 type job at a large firm. However, my parents are both very environmentally minded- and large firms don't really give a damn for the most part. Basically, after a fairly stressful time and a bunch of bad projects they left to start a company on their own.
So that was like three years ago, three pretty lean years tbh. I guess as a family we've gotten by, but starting something new and big- especially at a late age is really tough. My parents haven't gotten a lot of work, and the depression didn't really help either. Things have started to pick up though, as their name gets out there. Also, the situation at home was quite tough because my parents are always busy- and I have a bunch of younger siblings.
I asked them about the whole situation and this was the reply "Even though things are tough, it sure as hell beats punching in for someone else everyday". So I guess in the end, if you aren't happy where your at there is no problem with doing something else, especially at a young age. Even if you are older, change is possible as well I just think it will be much much tougher.
On September 18 2010 02:37 Entaro[AoV] wrote: What do you think it is that makes you love what you do right now? Is it something unique to you? Is it the perfect combination of people, variety, intellectual stimulation, low stress, and your personal characteristics that create such an environment that you love?
I think as the only person who responded so positively to the question, you could give the rest of us a lot of insight into what to think about in terms of future direction. What principles do you abide by that led you to your current state?
With much pleasure my friend.
i simply stuck to the plain fundamentals, if you know what i mean, since i was a baby boy i'd find myself fiddling around any computer i could grab a hold of. my mother used to tell me that anytime we visited one of her friends, for those "adult talks" we kids couldn't care less at the moment, i'd ask her friend if "she had a computer."
lol
i stuck to that passion i had all the way through middle school, high school up to college and today. always learning more about them and what could be done with them and what already has. it is something innate to me. i don't do it for grades or anything else. to me, my profession is my hobby. much the same way we play and learn more and more about starcraft.
the people i work with aren't quite the ideal people you'd want to be with, and that's because we don't live in a theoretical world, but a real one. however, i'm always thinking of a means (unconsciously) to affect these people to the point where they can see i'm passionate about what we're doing. and that gets them going. the only time i get stressed out is when it is time for me to go to sleep! or when it is really early in the morning.
but i'll have to admit that at that instant in my life, i got very lucky. i know of a lot of people who still have no idea what major to go for. to me that decision was a no brainer. having a just little sense of direction for what one truly loves works wonders.
But hey, life is beautiful my friend. i'm a simple guy living on a complex world. i'm a breath of air in the midst of a hurricane. the chances that we'll ever see each other are almost null with the only means of our lives entwining being this marvelous game we dearly love. but what we do in this world will truly never matter. and because of that, i've simply chosen abide to those insignificant little things that make this little heart beat with emotion every day. so that this life can at least have some meaning to me and so that when the day comes, and i find myself laying on my deathbed, i will be able to think back a little, remember all of these moments, and tell myself "that was fun".
You can change jobs ONLY if you've been in that one for 2+ years and ONLY if you get a new job secured before leaving this one.
That's the problem with wanting a career life...gaps in employment or periods of short employment look terrible and are often downright out of the question.
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/mXPyy.png)
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