• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:20
CEST 13:20
KST 20:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy0GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding0Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2)
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
[A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage ASL21 General Discussion so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Korean words The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2279 users

Math Puzzle [num 17]

Blogs > evanthebouncy!
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 19:58:37
August 18 2010 19:51 GMT
#1
It's been awhile huh!! Here goes!

Again, hide answer in spoilers. And good luck!

You have a broken calculator with only these buttons working:
sin
cos
tan
cot
sin^-1
cos^-1
tan^-1
cot^-1

where when I say sin^-1 I mean the inverse of sine, not one over sine.
i.e. sine(sine-1(x)) = x for x between -1 and 1.

Your calculator now show 0. How do you, after a finite number of pressing buttons, make ANY positive rational number to appear on your screen?

Ahaha maybe there's some confusion, by ANY positive rational number, I mean this:
If I want to make 15/23 appear, I can do it.
If I want to make any p/q appear, where p, q in natural number, and p, q has no common divisors, I can make it happen after finite number of moves.

sorry! xD

*****
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
KumquatExpress
Profile Joined October 2009
United States344 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 20:03:35
August 18 2010 19:54 GMT
#2
+ Show Spoiler +
...Wouldn't you just press cosine? Unless there's something I'm not getting here..
Edit: I see your edit. Will ponder now.
Speedythinggoesin, speedythingcomesout.
blabber
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4448 Posts
August 18 2010 19:56 GMT
#3
+ Show Spoiler +
maybe I don't understand the question correctly, but wouldn't just pressing cos give you 1?
blabberrrrr
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 20:29:19
August 18 2010 20:01 GMT
#4
a start
+ Show Spoiler +
Things we can do:
1. arctan(cot(x)) = arccot(tan(x)) = 1/x
2. arcsin(cos(x)) = arccos(sin(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)
3. arctan(sin(x)) = arccot(cos(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
4. arcsin(tan(x)) = arccos(cot(x)) = x/sqrt(1+x^2)
5. arccos(tan(x)) = arcsin(cot(x)) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)
(there is a sixth non-identity operation, but it's equivalent to 1 applied to 3.)

EDIT: redefinition of 1-5 for x = a/b (just need to put this down somewhere)
1. b/a
2. sqrt(b^2-a^2)/b
3. a/sqrt(b^2-a^2)
4. a/sqrt(b^2+a^2)
5. 1/sqrt(b^2+a^2)

will work on it

EDIT: You can get any fraction of the form a/1 or 1/a.
Obviously, 1 applied to 5 is sqrt(1+x^2).
Repeatedly applying this gives sqrt(2), ..... to infinity.
Contained in this sequence are sqrt(4) = 2, sqrt(9) = 3, etc.
We can apply 1 to those to get 1/2, 1/3, etc.


Edited, made progress
Translator:3
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
August 18 2010 20:10 GMT
#5
On August 19 2010 05:01 infinitestory wrote:
a start
+ Show Spoiler +
Things we can do:
1. arctan(cot(x)) = arccot(tan(x)) = 1/x
2. arcsin(cos(x)) = arccos(sin(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)
3. arctan(sin(x)) = arccot(cos(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
4. arcsin(tan(x)) = arccos(cot(x)) = x/sqrt(1+x^2)
5. arccos(tan(x)) = arcsin(cot(x)) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)
(there is a sixth non-identity operation, but it's equivalent to 1 applied to 3.)

will work on it

EDIT: You can get any fraction of the form a/1 or 1/a.
Obviously, 1 applied to 5 is sqrt(1+x^2).
Repeatedly applying this gives sqrt(2), ..... to infinity.
Contained in this sequence are sqrt(4) = 2, sqrt(9) = 3, etc.
We can apply 1 to those to get 1/2, 1/3, etc.


Edited, made progress


we're getting somewhere
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
BajaBlood
Profile Joined August 2009
United States205 Posts
August 18 2010 20:33 GMT
#6
On August 19 2010 05:01 infinitestory wrote:
a start
+ Show Spoiler +
Things we can do:
1. arctan(cot(x)) = arccot(tan(x)) = 1/x
2. arcsin(cos(x)) = arccos(sin(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)
3. arctan(sin(x)) = arccot(cos(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
4. arcsin(tan(x)) = arccos(cot(x)) = x/sqrt(1+x^2)
5. arccos(tan(x)) = arcsin(cot(x)) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)
(there is a sixth non-identity operation, but it's equivalent to 1 applied to 3.)

EDIT: redefinition of 1-5 for x = a/b (just need to put this down somewhere)
1. b/a
2. sqrt(b^2-a^2)/b
3. a/sqrt(b^2-a^2)
4. a/sqrt(b^2+a^2)
5. 1/sqrt(b^2+a^2)

will work on it

EDIT: You can get any fraction of the form a/1 or 1/a.
Obviously, 1 applied to 5 is sqrt(1+x^2).
Repeatedly applying this gives sqrt(2), ..... to infinity.
Contained in this sequence are sqrt(4) = 2, sqrt(9) = 3, etc.
We can apply 1 to those to get 1/2, 1/3, etc.


Edited, made progress


+ Show Spoiler +

I can't vouch for the truth/falsehood of the above. But if you can create a system for 1/a, then simply typing 'b' before the operation should yield the desired fraction.

barccot(tan(a)) = b/a

Unless it's cheating to use the implied multiplication


Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17054 Posts
August 18 2010 20:35 GMT
#7
The calculator doesn't have number buttons.
Moderator
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 20:51:55
August 18 2010 20:35 GMT
#8
On August 19 2010 05:33 BajaBlood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2010 05:01 infinitestory wrote:
a start
+ Show Spoiler +
Things we can do:
1. arctan(cot(x)) = arccot(tan(x)) = 1/x
2. arcsin(cos(x)) = arccos(sin(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)
3. arctan(sin(x)) = arccot(cos(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
4. arcsin(tan(x)) = arccos(cot(x)) = x/sqrt(1+x^2)
5. arccos(tan(x)) = arcsin(cot(x)) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)
(there is a sixth non-identity operation, but it's equivalent to 1 applied to 3.)

EDIT: redefinition of 1-5 for x = a/b (just need to put this down somewhere)
1. b/a
2. sqrt(b^2-a^2)/b
3. a/sqrt(b^2-a^2)
4. a/sqrt(b^2+a^2)
5. 1/sqrt(b^2+a^2)

will work on it

EDIT: You can get any fraction of the form a/1 or 1/a.
Obviously, 1 applied to 5 is sqrt(1+x^2).
Repeatedly applying this gives sqrt(2), ..... to infinity.
Contained in this sequence are sqrt(4) = 2, sqrt(9) = 3, etc.
We can apply 1 to those to get 1/2, 1/3, etc.


Edited, made progress


+ Show Spoiler +

I can't vouch for the truth/falsehood of the above. But if you can create a system for 1/a, then simply typing 'b' before the operation should yield the desired fraction.

barccot(tan(a)) = b/a

Unless it's cheating to use the implied multiplication




You can't type them, only obtain them by result of an operation

EDIT: solved
+ Show Spoiler +

As I stated above, sqrt(a/1) is possible.
But sqrt(a/2) is also possible.
If a is divisible by 2, then it just reduces to sqrt((a/2)/1), this gives us sqrt(2/2), sqrt(4/2), forever
If a is not divisible by 2, well
apply operation 1 to sqrt(2/1) to get sqrt(1/2)
apply operation 5 to that repeatedly to get sqrt(3/2), sqrt(5/2), forever

Now let us induct on n, using the same process.
Say we can get sqrt(a/1), sqrt(a/2), sqrt(a/3), ... ,sqrt(a/n) for any n
then, take sqrt((n+1)/1), sqrt((n+1)/2), ..., sqrt((n+1)/n) and apply operation 1 to them all
this gives sqrt(1/(n+1)), sqrt(2/(n+1)), ..., sqrt(n/(n+1)).
If we apply operation 5 to all of these, we can get sqrt(a/(n+1)) for any n.

But this gives us the square root of any rational number, so we can obtain any m/n by obtaining sqrt(m^2/n^2).
Translator:3
Roggles
Profile Joined December 2009
United States38 Posts
August 18 2010 21:42 GMT
#9
On August 19 2010 05:35 infinitestory wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2010 05:33 BajaBlood wrote:
On August 19 2010 05:01 infinitestory wrote:
a start
+ Show Spoiler +
Things we can do:
1. arctan(cot(x)) = arccot(tan(x)) = 1/x
2. arcsin(cos(x)) = arccos(sin(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)
3. arctan(sin(x)) = arccot(cos(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
4. arcsin(tan(x)) = arccos(cot(x)) = x/sqrt(1+x^2)
5. arccos(tan(x)) = arcsin(cot(x)) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)
(there is a sixth non-identity operation, but it's equivalent to 1 applied to 3.)

EDIT: redefinition of 1-5 for x = a/b (just need to put this down somewhere)
1. b/a
2. sqrt(b^2-a^2)/b
3. a/sqrt(b^2-a^2)
4. a/sqrt(b^2+a^2)
5. 1/sqrt(b^2+a^2)

will work on it

EDIT: You can get any fraction of the form a/1 or 1/a.
Obviously, 1 applied to 5 is sqrt(1+x^2).
Repeatedly applying this gives sqrt(2), ..... to infinity.
Contained in this sequence are sqrt(4) = 2, sqrt(9) = 3, etc.
We can apply 1 to those to get 1/2, 1/3, etc.


Edited, made progress


+ Show Spoiler +

I can't vouch for the truth/falsehood of the above. But if you can create a system for 1/a, then simply typing 'b' before the operation should yield the desired fraction.

barccot(tan(a)) = b/a

Unless it's cheating to use the implied multiplication




You can't type them, only obtain them by result of an operation

EDIT: solved
+ Show Spoiler +

As I stated above, sqrt(a/1) is possible.
But sqrt(a/2) is also possible.
If a is divisible by 2, then it just reduces to sqrt((a/2)/1), this gives us sqrt(2/2), sqrt(4/2), forever
If a is not divisible by 2, well
apply operation 1 to sqrt(2/1) to get sqrt(1/2)
apply operation 5 to that repeatedly to get sqrt(3/2), sqrt(5/2), forever

Now let us induct on n, using the same process.
Say we can get sqrt(a/1), sqrt(a/2), sqrt(a/3), ... ,sqrt(a/n) for any n
then, take sqrt((n+1)/1), sqrt((n+1)/2), ..., sqrt((n+1)/n) and apply operation 1 to them all
this gives sqrt(1/(n+1)), sqrt(2/(n+1)), ..., sqrt(n/(n+1)).
If we apply operation 5 to all of these, we can get sqrt(a/(n+1)) for any n.

But this gives us the square root of any rational number, so we can obtain any m/n by obtaining sqrt(m^2/n^2).


how can you assume that you can get sqrt(a/n) for any n?

applying 1+5 only gets you sqrt(1+x^2). if you apply it again, you will get sqrt(2+x^2) etc. your claim is that by taking sqrt(2) and applying 1/x to make it sqrt(1/2), you can obtain sqrt(3/2), sqrt(5/2) etc as well, which is perfectly fine. However, if you tried it with sqrt(3), it would become sqrt(1/3), and then you would have a sequence of sqrt(1/3), sqrt (4/3), sqrt(7/3). combined with the natural numbers, you would get sqrts of 1/3, 3/3, 4/3, 6/3, etc. but we're missing the 2/3, 5/3, etc.

the 1+5 algorithm, when applied recursively, will take a fraction sqrt(a/b) and turn it into sqrt(1+a/b). therefore you will get the sqrt of a/b, (b+a)/b, (2b+a)/b, etc. which does not properly fill in the fractions between a/b and (b+a)/b.

tell me if I'm missing something stupid though...
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
August 18 2010 21:53 GMT
#10
On August 19 2010 06:42 Roggles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2010 05:35 infinitestory wrote:
On August 19 2010 05:33 BajaBlood wrote:
On August 19 2010 05:01 infinitestory wrote:
a start
+ Show Spoiler +
Things we can do:
1. arctan(cot(x)) = arccot(tan(x)) = 1/x
2. arcsin(cos(x)) = arccos(sin(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)
3. arctan(sin(x)) = arccot(cos(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
4. arcsin(tan(x)) = arccos(cot(x)) = x/sqrt(1+x^2)
5. arccos(tan(x)) = arcsin(cot(x)) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)
(there is a sixth non-identity operation, but it's equivalent to 1 applied to 3.)

EDIT: redefinition of 1-5 for x = a/b (just need to put this down somewhere)
1. b/a
2. sqrt(b^2-a^2)/b
3. a/sqrt(b^2-a^2)
4. a/sqrt(b^2+a^2)
5. 1/sqrt(b^2+a^2)

will work on it

EDIT: You can get any fraction of the form a/1 or 1/a.
Obviously, 1 applied to 5 is sqrt(1+x^2).
Repeatedly applying this gives sqrt(2), ..... to infinity.
Contained in this sequence are sqrt(4) = 2, sqrt(9) = 3, etc.
We can apply 1 to those to get 1/2, 1/3, etc.


Edited, made progress


+ Show Spoiler +

I can't vouch for the truth/falsehood of the above. But if you can create a system for 1/a, then simply typing 'b' before the operation should yield the desired fraction.

barccot(tan(a)) = b/a

Unless it's cheating to use the implied multiplication




You can't type them, only obtain them by result of an operation

EDIT: solved
+ Show Spoiler +

As I stated above, sqrt(a/1) is possible.
But sqrt(a/2) is also possible.
If a is divisible by 2, then it just reduces to sqrt((a/2)/1), this gives us sqrt(2/2), sqrt(4/2), forever
If a is not divisible by 2, well
apply operation 1 to sqrt(2/1) to get sqrt(1/2)
apply operation 5 to that repeatedly to get sqrt(3/2), sqrt(5/2), forever

Now let us induct on n, using the same process.
Say we can get sqrt(a/1), sqrt(a/2), sqrt(a/3), ... ,sqrt(a/n) for any n
then, take sqrt((n+1)/1), sqrt((n+1)/2), ..., sqrt((n+1)/n) and apply operation 1 to them all
this gives sqrt(1/(n+1)), sqrt(2/(n+1)), ..., sqrt(n/(n+1)).
If we apply operation 5 to all of these, we can get sqrt(a/(n+1)) for any n.

But this gives us the square root of any rational number, so we can obtain any m/n by obtaining sqrt(m^2/n^2).

+ Show Spoiler +


how can you assume that you can get sqrt(a/n) for any n?

applying 1+5 only gets you sqrt(1+x^2). if you apply it again, you will get sqrt(2+x^2) etc. your claim is that by taking sqrt(2) and applying 1/x to make it sqrt(1/2), you can obtain sqrt(3/2), sqrt(5/2) etc as well, which is perfectly fine. However, if you tried it with sqrt(3), it would become sqrt(1/3), and then you would have a sequence of sqrt(1/3), sqrt (4/3), sqrt(7/3). combined with the natural numbers, you would get sqrts of 1/3, 3/3, 4/3, 6/3, etc. but we're missing the 2/3, 5/3, etc.

the 1+5 algorithm, when applied recursively, will take a fraction sqrt(a/b) and turn it into sqrt(1+a/b). therefore you will get the sqrt of a/b, (b+a)/b, (2b+a)/b, etc. which does not properly fill in the fractions between a/b and (b+a)/b.

tell me if I'm missing something stupid though...


+ Show Spoiler +

You get sqrt(2/2), sqrt(4/2), sqrt(6/2), etc. because they are equal to sqrt(1), sqrt(2), etc.

You get sqrt(2/3) by flipping sqrt(3/2)
Translator:3
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
August 18 2010 21:58 GMT
#11
+ Show Spoiler +
You can't. You don't have an "=" button.
Hypnosis
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States2061 Posts
August 18 2010 22:01 GMT
#12
where do you get these problems? i feel like i missed something in calc or something because im done with calc 3 already and idk those identities for shit! Maybe i should review my trig proofs haha
Science without religion is lame, Religion without science is blind
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 22:03:17
August 18 2010 22:01 GMT
#13
On August 19 2010 06:58 jalstar wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
You can't. You don't have an "=" button.

+ Show Spoiler +
Pressing the operator also shows the answer. Old school way.


EDIT: @hypnosis: this is a classic contest math algebra problem (I'm kinda cheating since I solved it a couple years ago, then forgot the solution)
Translator:3
Roggles
Profile Joined December 2009
United States38 Posts
August 18 2010 22:04 GMT
#14
On August 19 2010 06:53 infinitestory wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2010 06:42 Roggles wrote:
On August 19 2010 05:35 infinitestory wrote:
On August 19 2010 05:33 BajaBlood wrote:
On August 19 2010 05:01 infinitestory wrote:
a start
+ Show Spoiler +
Things we can do:
1. arctan(cot(x)) = arccot(tan(x)) = 1/x
2. arcsin(cos(x)) = arccos(sin(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)
3. arctan(sin(x)) = arccot(cos(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
4. arcsin(tan(x)) = arccos(cot(x)) = x/sqrt(1+x^2)
5. arccos(tan(x)) = arcsin(cot(x)) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)
(there is a sixth non-identity operation, but it's equivalent to 1 applied to 3.)

EDIT: redefinition of 1-5 for x = a/b (just need to put this down somewhere)
1. b/a
2. sqrt(b^2-a^2)/b
3. a/sqrt(b^2-a^2)
4. a/sqrt(b^2+a^2)
5. 1/sqrt(b^2+a^2)

will work on it

EDIT: You can get any fraction of the form a/1 or 1/a.
Obviously, 1 applied to 5 is sqrt(1+x^2).
Repeatedly applying this gives sqrt(2), ..... to infinity.
Contained in this sequence are sqrt(4) = 2, sqrt(9) = 3, etc.
We can apply 1 to those to get 1/2, 1/3, etc.


Edited, made progress


+ Show Spoiler +

I can't vouch for the truth/falsehood of the above. But if you can create a system for 1/a, then simply typing 'b' before the operation should yield the desired fraction.

barccot(tan(a)) = b/a

Unless it's cheating to use the implied multiplication




You can't type them, only obtain them by result of an operation

EDIT: solved
+ Show Spoiler +

As I stated above, sqrt(a/1) is possible.
But sqrt(a/2) is also possible.
If a is divisible by 2, then it just reduces to sqrt((a/2)/1), this gives us sqrt(2/2), sqrt(4/2), forever
If a is not divisible by 2, well
apply operation 1 to sqrt(2/1) to get sqrt(1/2)
apply operation 5 to that repeatedly to get sqrt(3/2), sqrt(5/2), forever

Now let us induct on n, using the same process.
Say we can get sqrt(a/1), sqrt(a/2), sqrt(a/3), ... ,sqrt(a/n) for any n
then, take sqrt((n+1)/1), sqrt((n+1)/2), ..., sqrt((n+1)/n) and apply operation 1 to them all
this gives sqrt(1/(n+1)), sqrt(2/(n+1)), ..., sqrt(n/(n+1)).
If we apply operation 5 to all of these, we can get sqrt(a/(n+1)) for any n.

But this gives us the square root of any rational number, so we can obtain any m/n by obtaining sqrt(m^2/n^2).

+ Show Spoiler +


how can you assume that you can get sqrt(a/n) for any n?

applying 1+5 only gets you sqrt(1+x^2). if you apply it again, you will get sqrt(2+x^2) etc. your claim is that by taking sqrt(2) and applying 1/x to make it sqrt(1/2), you can obtain sqrt(3/2), sqrt(5/2) etc as well, which is perfectly fine. However, if you tried it with sqrt(3), it would become sqrt(1/3), and then you would have a sequence of sqrt(1/3), sqrt (4/3), sqrt(7/3). combined with the natural numbers, you would get sqrts of 1/3, 3/3, 4/3, 6/3, etc. but we're missing the 2/3, 5/3, etc.

the 1+5 algorithm, when applied recursively, will take a fraction sqrt(a/b) and turn it into sqrt(1+a/b). therefore you will get the sqrt of a/b, (b+a)/b, (2b+a)/b, etc. which does not properly fill in the fractions between a/b and (b+a)/b.

tell me if I'm missing something stupid though...


+ Show Spoiler +

You get sqrt(2/2), sqrt(4/2), sqrt(6/2), etc. because they are equal to sqrt(1), sqrt(2), etc.

You get sqrt(2/3) by flipping sqrt(3/2)


+ Show Spoiler +

oh yeah that's right...we've filled in a/1 and a/2, and the different values for (a mod 3)/3 can be obtained by flipping previous values. so 1/3 can be gotten from flipping 3/1, and 2/3 can be gotten from flipping 3/2, and therefore a/3 is filled. and this pattern stacks on top of itself recursively.

just wanted a little clarification, sorry. I missed that little jump in the logic.
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
August 18 2010 22:11 GMT
#15
On August 19 2010 05:35 Empyrean wrote:
The calculator doesn't have number buttons.

i think that's the challenge of the problem
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
FiBsTeR
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States415 Posts
August 18 2010 22:13 GMT
#16
I remember solving this when preparing for USAMO... I think this was on a past one.
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 22:19:03
August 18 2010 22:18 GMT
#17
this is an old usamo problem

and VERY ANNOYING

+ Show Spoiler +

0: already exists

begin with cos 0 = 1.

now, notice that

f(x) = cot(arctan(x)) = 1/x
g_1(x) = cos(arctan(x)) = 1/sqrt(x^2+1)
g_2(x) = sin(arctan(x)) = x/sqrt(x^2+1)
h_1(x) = tan(arccos(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)/x
h_2(x) = tan(arcsin(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
h_3(x) sin(arccos(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)

so we can get any composition of these functions, applied to 1 or 0. call a number that can be reached by a sequence of keypresses "good." If n is good, so is 1/n, since 1/n = f(n). We will show that all numbers x such that x^2 is rational are good; this clearly implies the problem statement.

we only need to show that all rationals q less than 1 (and 1 is good) are good, since every rational greater than 1 is the reciprocal of a rational less than 1.

starting at 1, we find g_2(1) = 1/sqrt(2), g_2(g_2(1)) = 1/sqrt(3), and by induction, if g_2^(k)(1) = 1/sqrt(k+1) [where ^(k) means the function is composed k times], then g_2^(k+1)(1) = g_2(1/sqrt(k+1)) = (1/sqrt(k+1)) / (sqrt( (k+2)/(k+1) ) ) = 1/sqrt(k+2).

so all 1/sqrt(n), n a positive integer, can be reached.

furthermore, we find that all g_1(1/sqrt(n)) = sqrt(n/(n+1)) can be achieved.

Lemma. If sqrt(a/b) is good, so is sqrt(a/(ka+b)) for all nonnegative integers k.

Proof. Notice that g_2(sqrt(a/b)) = sqrt(a/(a+b)); by composing this repeatedly, by induction, we can achieve all sqrt(a/(ka+b)) for nonnegative integer k.

next, we use strong induction on the numerator of sqrt(a/b) to show that all square roots of rationals are good.

We can already construct all sqrt(1/b), so the base case is true.

Assume that for k = 1, 2, ..., n-1, sqrt(k/j) is good for all integers j.

Now, we need only show that all sqrt(n/j) are good, which would complete the induction. If gcd(j,n) = g > 1, then we can cancel g from the top and bottom and get a numerator between 1 and n inclusive, so the statement is true. Hence, we only need to consider cases where gcd(j,n)=1.

Otherwise, let j' be the smallest positive integer so that (j-j' ) is divisible by n; clearly j'<= n, and j' is not n because we don't need to consider when gcd(j,n)>1. Then sqrt(j'/k) is good by the induction hypothesis, so f(sqrt(j'/k)) = sqrt(k/j' ) is also good. Then by the lemma, we can construct all sqrt(k/(j'+k)), so we get all denominators that are j' mod k.

Since we have considered all residues mod k, the denominator can therefore be any positive integer, and the induction is complete.

Writer
Surrealz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States449 Posts
August 18 2010 22:37 GMT
#18
On August 19 2010 07:18 ]343[ wrote:
this is an old usamo problem

and VERY ANNOYING

+ Show Spoiler +

0: already exists

begin with cos 0 = 1.

now, notice that

f(x) = cot(arctan(x)) = 1/x
g_1(x) = cos(arctan(x)) = 1/sqrt(x^2+1)
g_2(x) = sin(arctan(x)) = x/sqrt(x^2+1)
h_1(x) = tan(arccos(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)/x
h_2(x) = tan(arcsin(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
h_3(x) sin(arccos(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)

so we can get any composition of these functions, applied to 1 or 0. call a number that can be reached by a sequence of keypresses "good." If n is good, so is 1/n, since 1/n = f(n). We will show that all numbers x such that x^2 is rational are good; this clearly implies the problem statement.

we only need to show that all rationals q less than 1 (and 1 is good) are good, since every rational greater than 1 is the reciprocal of a rational less than 1.

starting at 1, we find g_2(1) = 1/sqrt(2), g_2(g_2(1)) = 1/sqrt(3), and by induction, if g_2^(k)(1) = 1/sqrt(k+1) [where ^(k) means the function is composed k times], then g_2^(k+1)(1) = g_2(1/sqrt(k+1)) = (1/sqrt(k+1)) / (sqrt( (k+2)/(k+1) ) ) = 1/sqrt(k+2).

so all 1/sqrt(n), n a positive integer, can be reached.

furthermore, we find that all g_1(1/sqrt(n)) = sqrt(n/(n+1)) can be achieved.

Lemma. If sqrt(a/b) is good, so is sqrt(a/(ka+b)) for all nonnegative integers k.

Proof. Notice that g_2(sqrt(a/b)) = sqrt(a/(a+b)); by composing this repeatedly, by induction, we can achieve all sqrt(a/(ka+b)) for nonnegative integer k.

next, we use strong induction on the numerator of sqrt(a/b) to show that all square roots of rationals are good.

We can already construct all sqrt(1/b), so the base case is true.

Assume that for k = 1, 2, ..., n-1, sqrt(k/j) is good for all integers j.

Now, we need only show that all sqrt(n/j) are good, which would complete the induction. If gcd(j,n) = g > 1, then we can cancel g from the top and bottom and get a numerator between 1 and n inclusive, so the statement is true. Hence, we only need to consider cases where gcd(j,n)=1.

Otherwise, let j' be the smallest positive integer so that (j-j' ) is divisible by n; clearly j'<= n, and j' is not n because we don't need to consider when gcd(j,n)>1. Then sqrt(j'/k) is good by the induction hypothesis, so f(sqrt(j'/k)) = sqrt(k/j' ) is also good. Then by the lemma, we can construct all sqrt(k/(j'+k)), so we get all denominators that are j' mod k.

Since we have considered all residues mod k, the denominator can therefore be any positive integer, and the induction is complete.



thank you sir
1a2a3a
palanq
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States761 Posts
August 18 2010 22:45 GMT
#19
since you have all the inverse functions, the problem is equivalent to taking any arbitrary rational number ( = a/b for some integers a and b) and turning it into zero. might be a useful approach going at it from the other direction
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
August 18 2010 22:59 GMT
#20
Incomplete
+ Show Spoiler +

method 1:
tan(cot-1(n)) = 1/n
so for any n=1/(a/b) you can also get to n=a/b

method 2:
cos(tan-1(n))) = 1/sq(n^2+1)
combined with method 1
tan(cot-1(cos(tan-1(sq(a)) = sq(a+1)
starting with 0, this pattern allows for all positive integers - but only for integers for now

now for some modulus:
some x where
x mod b is equivalent to a mod b
(x/b can be expressed as x/b+C where C is an integer)
x^2 mod b^2 is equivalent to x^2 mod b^2
also where
x mod b is equivalent to b - (x mod b)
x^2 mod b^2 is equivalent to x^2 mod b^2
this is less important though

in these cases n=x/b can be express as sq(x^2/b^2 + D) where D is some integer
combined with method 2, the conclusion is that given a/b you can get to any n=a/b+C where C is a positive integer

anyways the final piece of the puzzle is continued fractions where we want to express all rational numbers as
1/1/(1/ (a +C)+D) +E)....

I haven't gotten there yet.





Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Kung Fu Cup
11:00
#4
RotterdaM243
TKL 148
Rex42
SteadfastSC39
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
09:00
KungFu Cup 2026 Week 3
CranKy Ducklings125
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 243
Lowko149
TKL 148
SortOf 138
ProTech105
Rex 42
SteadfastSC 39
Livibee 33
Codebar 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3863
Horang2 1223
Jaedong 890
Bisu 847
Shuttle 273
Hyuk 215
Aegong 209
actioN 197
Stork 173
Soma 173
[ Show more ]
Larva 165
Rush 158
Light 153
Pusan 140
Last 121
EffOrt 119
Mini 115
scan(afreeca) 105
Bale 100
Leta 80
Snow 69
PianO 68
910 64
ZerO 62
Hyun 48
hero 46
sSak 34
ggaemo 33
Shinee 33
ToSsGirL 30
Backho 30
Sharp 21
zelot 18
Barracks 17
HiyA 17
Terrorterran 16
soO 16
SilentControl 12
Shine 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Movie 8
GoRush 7
Noble 6
Zeus 0
Dota 2
Gorgc691
XaKoH 564
Counter-Strike
olofmeister3043
x6flipin310
edward73
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King122
Other Games
singsing1657
Liquid`RaSZi1001
B2W.Neo379
crisheroes329
Happy242
ZerO(Twitch)8
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL14961
Other Games
gamesdonequick615
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1465
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
12h 40m
The PondCast
22h 40m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 12h
WardiTV Team League
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
3 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
GSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.