• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 12:25
CET 18:25
KST 02:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT28Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0244LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2
StarCraft 2
General
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles
Tourneys
The Dave Testa Open #11 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare Mutation # 512 Overclocked
Brood War
General
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ CasterMuse Youtube TvZ is the most complete match up A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread New broswer game : STG-World
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Mexico's Drug War Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here!
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1135 users

Math Puzzle [num 17]

Blogs > evanthebouncy!
Post a Reply
Normal
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 19:58:37
August 18 2010 19:51 GMT
#1
It's been awhile huh!! Here goes!

Again, hide answer in spoilers. And good luck!

You have a broken calculator with only these buttons working:
sin
cos
tan
cot
sin^-1
cos^-1
tan^-1
cot^-1

where when I say sin^-1 I mean the inverse of sine, not one over sine.
i.e. sine(sine-1(x)) = x for x between -1 and 1.

Your calculator now show 0. How do you, after a finite number of pressing buttons, make ANY positive rational number to appear on your screen?

Ahaha maybe there's some confusion, by ANY positive rational number, I mean this:
If I want to make 15/23 appear, I can do it.
If I want to make any p/q appear, where p, q in natural number, and p, q has no common divisors, I can make it happen after finite number of moves.

sorry! xD

*****
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
KumquatExpress
Profile Joined October 2009
United States344 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 20:03:35
August 18 2010 19:54 GMT
#2
+ Show Spoiler +
...Wouldn't you just press cosine? Unless there's something I'm not getting here..
Edit: I see your edit. Will ponder now.
Speedythinggoesin, speedythingcomesout.
blabber
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4448 Posts
August 18 2010 19:56 GMT
#3
+ Show Spoiler +
maybe I don't understand the question correctly, but wouldn't just pressing cos give you 1?
blabberrrrr
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 20:29:19
August 18 2010 20:01 GMT
#4
a start
+ Show Spoiler +
Things we can do:
1. arctan(cot(x)) = arccot(tan(x)) = 1/x
2. arcsin(cos(x)) = arccos(sin(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)
3. arctan(sin(x)) = arccot(cos(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
4. arcsin(tan(x)) = arccos(cot(x)) = x/sqrt(1+x^2)
5. arccos(tan(x)) = arcsin(cot(x)) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)
(there is a sixth non-identity operation, but it's equivalent to 1 applied to 3.)

EDIT: redefinition of 1-5 for x = a/b (just need to put this down somewhere)
1. b/a
2. sqrt(b^2-a^2)/b
3. a/sqrt(b^2-a^2)
4. a/sqrt(b^2+a^2)
5. 1/sqrt(b^2+a^2)

will work on it

EDIT: You can get any fraction of the form a/1 or 1/a.
Obviously, 1 applied to 5 is sqrt(1+x^2).
Repeatedly applying this gives sqrt(2), ..... to infinity.
Contained in this sequence are sqrt(4) = 2, sqrt(9) = 3, etc.
We can apply 1 to those to get 1/2, 1/3, etc.


Edited, made progress
Translator:3
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
August 18 2010 20:10 GMT
#5
On August 19 2010 05:01 infinitestory wrote:
a start
+ Show Spoiler +
Things we can do:
1. arctan(cot(x)) = arccot(tan(x)) = 1/x
2. arcsin(cos(x)) = arccos(sin(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)
3. arctan(sin(x)) = arccot(cos(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
4. arcsin(tan(x)) = arccos(cot(x)) = x/sqrt(1+x^2)
5. arccos(tan(x)) = arcsin(cot(x)) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)
(there is a sixth non-identity operation, but it's equivalent to 1 applied to 3.)

will work on it

EDIT: You can get any fraction of the form a/1 or 1/a.
Obviously, 1 applied to 5 is sqrt(1+x^2).
Repeatedly applying this gives sqrt(2), ..... to infinity.
Contained in this sequence are sqrt(4) = 2, sqrt(9) = 3, etc.
We can apply 1 to those to get 1/2, 1/3, etc.


Edited, made progress


we're getting somewhere
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
BajaBlood
Profile Joined August 2009
United States205 Posts
August 18 2010 20:33 GMT
#6
On August 19 2010 05:01 infinitestory wrote:
a start
+ Show Spoiler +
Things we can do:
1. arctan(cot(x)) = arccot(tan(x)) = 1/x
2. arcsin(cos(x)) = arccos(sin(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)
3. arctan(sin(x)) = arccot(cos(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
4. arcsin(tan(x)) = arccos(cot(x)) = x/sqrt(1+x^2)
5. arccos(tan(x)) = arcsin(cot(x)) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)
(there is a sixth non-identity operation, but it's equivalent to 1 applied to 3.)

EDIT: redefinition of 1-5 for x = a/b (just need to put this down somewhere)
1. b/a
2. sqrt(b^2-a^2)/b
3. a/sqrt(b^2-a^2)
4. a/sqrt(b^2+a^2)
5. 1/sqrt(b^2+a^2)

will work on it

EDIT: You can get any fraction of the form a/1 or 1/a.
Obviously, 1 applied to 5 is sqrt(1+x^2).
Repeatedly applying this gives sqrt(2), ..... to infinity.
Contained in this sequence are sqrt(4) = 2, sqrt(9) = 3, etc.
We can apply 1 to those to get 1/2, 1/3, etc.


Edited, made progress


+ Show Spoiler +

I can't vouch for the truth/falsehood of the above. But if you can create a system for 1/a, then simply typing 'b' before the operation should yield the desired fraction.

barccot(tan(a)) = b/a

Unless it's cheating to use the implied multiplication


Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17050 Posts
August 18 2010 20:35 GMT
#7
The calculator doesn't have number buttons.
Moderator
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 20:51:55
August 18 2010 20:35 GMT
#8
On August 19 2010 05:33 BajaBlood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2010 05:01 infinitestory wrote:
a start
+ Show Spoiler +
Things we can do:
1. arctan(cot(x)) = arccot(tan(x)) = 1/x
2. arcsin(cos(x)) = arccos(sin(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)
3. arctan(sin(x)) = arccot(cos(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
4. arcsin(tan(x)) = arccos(cot(x)) = x/sqrt(1+x^2)
5. arccos(tan(x)) = arcsin(cot(x)) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)
(there is a sixth non-identity operation, but it's equivalent to 1 applied to 3.)

EDIT: redefinition of 1-5 for x = a/b (just need to put this down somewhere)
1. b/a
2. sqrt(b^2-a^2)/b
3. a/sqrt(b^2-a^2)
4. a/sqrt(b^2+a^2)
5. 1/sqrt(b^2+a^2)

will work on it

EDIT: You can get any fraction of the form a/1 or 1/a.
Obviously, 1 applied to 5 is sqrt(1+x^2).
Repeatedly applying this gives sqrt(2), ..... to infinity.
Contained in this sequence are sqrt(4) = 2, sqrt(9) = 3, etc.
We can apply 1 to those to get 1/2, 1/3, etc.


Edited, made progress


+ Show Spoiler +

I can't vouch for the truth/falsehood of the above. But if you can create a system for 1/a, then simply typing 'b' before the operation should yield the desired fraction.

barccot(tan(a)) = b/a

Unless it's cheating to use the implied multiplication




You can't type them, only obtain them by result of an operation

EDIT: solved
+ Show Spoiler +

As I stated above, sqrt(a/1) is possible.
But sqrt(a/2) is also possible.
If a is divisible by 2, then it just reduces to sqrt((a/2)/1), this gives us sqrt(2/2), sqrt(4/2), forever
If a is not divisible by 2, well
apply operation 1 to sqrt(2/1) to get sqrt(1/2)
apply operation 5 to that repeatedly to get sqrt(3/2), sqrt(5/2), forever

Now let us induct on n, using the same process.
Say we can get sqrt(a/1), sqrt(a/2), sqrt(a/3), ... ,sqrt(a/n) for any n
then, take sqrt((n+1)/1), sqrt((n+1)/2), ..., sqrt((n+1)/n) and apply operation 1 to them all
this gives sqrt(1/(n+1)), sqrt(2/(n+1)), ..., sqrt(n/(n+1)).
If we apply operation 5 to all of these, we can get sqrt(a/(n+1)) for any n.

But this gives us the square root of any rational number, so we can obtain any m/n by obtaining sqrt(m^2/n^2).
Translator:3
Roggles
Profile Joined December 2009
United States38 Posts
August 18 2010 21:42 GMT
#9
On August 19 2010 05:35 infinitestory wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2010 05:33 BajaBlood wrote:
On August 19 2010 05:01 infinitestory wrote:
a start
+ Show Spoiler +
Things we can do:
1. arctan(cot(x)) = arccot(tan(x)) = 1/x
2. arcsin(cos(x)) = arccos(sin(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)
3. arctan(sin(x)) = arccot(cos(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
4. arcsin(tan(x)) = arccos(cot(x)) = x/sqrt(1+x^2)
5. arccos(tan(x)) = arcsin(cot(x)) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)
(there is a sixth non-identity operation, but it's equivalent to 1 applied to 3.)

EDIT: redefinition of 1-5 for x = a/b (just need to put this down somewhere)
1. b/a
2. sqrt(b^2-a^2)/b
3. a/sqrt(b^2-a^2)
4. a/sqrt(b^2+a^2)
5. 1/sqrt(b^2+a^2)

will work on it

EDIT: You can get any fraction of the form a/1 or 1/a.
Obviously, 1 applied to 5 is sqrt(1+x^2).
Repeatedly applying this gives sqrt(2), ..... to infinity.
Contained in this sequence are sqrt(4) = 2, sqrt(9) = 3, etc.
We can apply 1 to those to get 1/2, 1/3, etc.


Edited, made progress


+ Show Spoiler +

I can't vouch for the truth/falsehood of the above. But if you can create a system for 1/a, then simply typing 'b' before the operation should yield the desired fraction.

barccot(tan(a)) = b/a

Unless it's cheating to use the implied multiplication




You can't type them, only obtain them by result of an operation

EDIT: solved
+ Show Spoiler +

As I stated above, sqrt(a/1) is possible.
But sqrt(a/2) is also possible.
If a is divisible by 2, then it just reduces to sqrt((a/2)/1), this gives us sqrt(2/2), sqrt(4/2), forever
If a is not divisible by 2, well
apply operation 1 to sqrt(2/1) to get sqrt(1/2)
apply operation 5 to that repeatedly to get sqrt(3/2), sqrt(5/2), forever

Now let us induct on n, using the same process.
Say we can get sqrt(a/1), sqrt(a/2), sqrt(a/3), ... ,sqrt(a/n) for any n
then, take sqrt((n+1)/1), sqrt((n+1)/2), ..., sqrt((n+1)/n) and apply operation 1 to them all
this gives sqrt(1/(n+1)), sqrt(2/(n+1)), ..., sqrt(n/(n+1)).
If we apply operation 5 to all of these, we can get sqrt(a/(n+1)) for any n.

But this gives us the square root of any rational number, so we can obtain any m/n by obtaining sqrt(m^2/n^2).


how can you assume that you can get sqrt(a/n) for any n?

applying 1+5 only gets you sqrt(1+x^2). if you apply it again, you will get sqrt(2+x^2) etc. your claim is that by taking sqrt(2) and applying 1/x to make it sqrt(1/2), you can obtain sqrt(3/2), sqrt(5/2) etc as well, which is perfectly fine. However, if you tried it with sqrt(3), it would become sqrt(1/3), and then you would have a sequence of sqrt(1/3), sqrt (4/3), sqrt(7/3). combined with the natural numbers, you would get sqrts of 1/3, 3/3, 4/3, 6/3, etc. but we're missing the 2/3, 5/3, etc.

the 1+5 algorithm, when applied recursively, will take a fraction sqrt(a/b) and turn it into sqrt(1+a/b). therefore you will get the sqrt of a/b, (b+a)/b, (2b+a)/b, etc. which does not properly fill in the fractions between a/b and (b+a)/b.

tell me if I'm missing something stupid though...
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
August 18 2010 21:53 GMT
#10
On August 19 2010 06:42 Roggles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2010 05:35 infinitestory wrote:
On August 19 2010 05:33 BajaBlood wrote:
On August 19 2010 05:01 infinitestory wrote:
a start
+ Show Spoiler +
Things we can do:
1. arctan(cot(x)) = arccot(tan(x)) = 1/x
2. arcsin(cos(x)) = arccos(sin(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)
3. arctan(sin(x)) = arccot(cos(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
4. arcsin(tan(x)) = arccos(cot(x)) = x/sqrt(1+x^2)
5. arccos(tan(x)) = arcsin(cot(x)) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)
(there is a sixth non-identity operation, but it's equivalent to 1 applied to 3.)

EDIT: redefinition of 1-5 for x = a/b (just need to put this down somewhere)
1. b/a
2. sqrt(b^2-a^2)/b
3. a/sqrt(b^2-a^2)
4. a/sqrt(b^2+a^2)
5. 1/sqrt(b^2+a^2)

will work on it

EDIT: You can get any fraction of the form a/1 or 1/a.
Obviously, 1 applied to 5 is sqrt(1+x^2).
Repeatedly applying this gives sqrt(2), ..... to infinity.
Contained in this sequence are sqrt(4) = 2, sqrt(9) = 3, etc.
We can apply 1 to those to get 1/2, 1/3, etc.


Edited, made progress


+ Show Spoiler +

I can't vouch for the truth/falsehood of the above. But if you can create a system for 1/a, then simply typing 'b' before the operation should yield the desired fraction.

barccot(tan(a)) = b/a

Unless it's cheating to use the implied multiplication




You can't type them, only obtain them by result of an operation

EDIT: solved
+ Show Spoiler +

As I stated above, sqrt(a/1) is possible.
But sqrt(a/2) is also possible.
If a is divisible by 2, then it just reduces to sqrt((a/2)/1), this gives us sqrt(2/2), sqrt(4/2), forever
If a is not divisible by 2, well
apply operation 1 to sqrt(2/1) to get sqrt(1/2)
apply operation 5 to that repeatedly to get sqrt(3/2), sqrt(5/2), forever

Now let us induct on n, using the same process.
Say we can get sqrt(a/1), sqrt(a/2), sqrt(a/3), ... ,sqrt(a/n) for any n
then, take sqrt((n+1)/1), sqrt((n+1)/2), ..., sqrt((n+1)/n) and apply operation 1 to them all
this gives sqrt(1/(n+1)), sqrt(2/(n+1)), ..., sqrt(n/(n+1)).
If we apply operation 5 to all of these, we can get sqrt(a/(n+1)) for any n.

But this gives us the square root of any rational number, so we can obtain any m/n by obtaining sqrt(m^2/n^2).

+ Show Spoiler +


how can you assume that you can get sqrt(a/n) for any n?

applying 1+5 only gets you sqrt(1+x^2). if you apply it again, you will get sqrt(2+x^2) etc. your claim is that by taking sqrt(2) and applying 1/x to make it sqrt(1/2), you can obtain sqrt(3/2), sqrt(5/2) etc as well, which is perfectly fine. However, if you tried it with sqrt(3), it would become sqrt(1/3), and then you would have a sequence of sqrt(1/3), sqrt (4/3), sqrt(7/3). combined with the natural numbers, you would get sqrts of 1/3, 3/3, 4/3, 6/3, etc. but we're missing the 2/3, 5/3, etc.

the 1+5 algorithm, when applied recursively, will take a fraction sqrt(a/b) and turn it into sqrt(1+a/b). therefore you will get the sqrt of a/b, (b+a)/b, (2b+a)/b, etc. which does not properly fill in the fractions between a/b and (b+a)/b.

tell me if I'm missing something stupid though...


+ Show Spoiler +

You get sqrt(2/2), sqrt(4/2), sqrt(6/2), etc. because they are equal to sqrt(1), sqrt(2), etc.

You get sqrt(2/3) by flipping sqrt(3/2)
Translator:3
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
August 18 2010 21:58 GMT
#11
+ Show Spoiler +
You can't. You don't have an "=" button.
Hypnosis
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States2061 Posts
August 18 2010 22:01 GMT
#12
where do you get these problems? i feel like i missed something in calc or something because im done with calc 3 already and idk those identities for shit! Maybe i should review my trig proofs haha
Science without religion is lame, Religion without science is blind
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 22:03:17
August 18 2010 22:01 GMT
#13
On August 19 2010 06:58 jalstar wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
You can't. You don't have an "=" button.

+ Show Spoiler +
Pressing the operator also shows the answer. Old school way.


EDIT: @hypnosis: this is a classic contest math algebra problem (I'm kinda cheating since I solved it a couple years ago, then forgot the solution)
Translator:3
Roggles
Profile Joined December 2009
United States38 Posts
August 18 2010 22:04 GMT
#14
On August 19 2010 06:53 infinitestory wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2010 06:42 Roggles wrote:
On August 19 2010 05:35 infinitestory wrote:
On August 19 2010 05:33 BajaBlood wrote:
On August 19 2010 05:01 infinitestory wrote:
a start
+ Show Spoiler +
Things we can do:
1. arctan(cot(x)) = arccot(tan(x)) = 1/x
2. arcsin(cos(x)) = arccos(sin(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)
3. arctan(sin(x)) = arccot(cos(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
4. arcsin(tan(x)) = arccos(cot(x)) = x/sqrt(1+x^2)
5. arccos(tan(x)) = arcsin(cot(x)) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)
(there is a sixth non-identity operation, but it's equivalent to 1 applied to 3.)

EDIT: redefinition of 1-5 for x = a/b (just need to put this down somewhere)
1. b/a
2. sqrt(b^2-a^2)/b
3. a/sqrt(b^2-a^2)
4. a/sqrt(b^2+a^2)
5. 1/sqrt(b^2+a^2)

will work on it

EDIT: You can get any fraction of the form a/1 or 1/a.
Obviously, 1 applied to 5 is sqrt(1+x^2).
Repeatedly applying this gives sqrt(2), ..... to infinity.
Contained in this sequence are sqrt(4) = 2, sqrt(9) = 3, etc.
We can apply 1 to those to get 1/2, 1/3, etc.


Edited, made progress


+ Show Spoiler +

I can't vouch for the truth/falsehood of the above. But if you can create a system for 1/a, then simply typing 'b' before the operation should yield the desired fraction.

barccot(tan(a)) = b/a

Unless it's cheating to use the implied multiplication




You can't type them, only obtain them by result of an operation

EDIT: solved
+ Show Spoiler +

As I stated above, sqrt(a/1) is possible.
But sqrt(a/2) is also possible.
If a is divisible by 2, then it just reduces to sqrt((a/2)/1), this gives us sqrt(2/2), sqrt(4/2), forever
If a is not divisible by 2, well
apply operation 1 to sqrt(2/1) to get sqrt(1/2)
apply operation 5 to that repeatedly to get sqrt(3/2), sqrt(5/2), forever

Now let us induct on n, using the same process.
Say we can get sqrt(a/1), sqrt(a/2), sqrt(a/3), ... ,sqrt(a/n) for any n
then, take sqrt((n+1)/1), sqrt((n+1)/2), ..., sqrt((n+1)/n) and apply operation 1 to them all
this gives sqrt(1/(n+1)), sqrt(2/(n+1)), ..., sqrt(n/(n+1)).
If we apply operation 5 to all of these, we can get sqrt(a/(n+1)) for any n.

But this gives us the square root of any rational number, so we can obtain any m/n by obtaining sqrt(m^2/n^2).

+ Show Spoiler +


how can you assume that you can get sqrt(a/n) for any n?

applying 1+5 only gets you sqrt(1+x^2). if you apply it again, you will get sqrt(2+x^2) etc. your claim is that by taking sqrt(2) and applying 1/x to make it sqrt(1/2), you can obtain sqrt(3/2), sqrt(5/2) etc as well, which is perfectly fine. However, if you tried it with sqrt(3), it would become sqrt(1/3), and then you would have a sequence of sqrt(1/3), sqrt (4/3), sqrt(7/3). combined with the natural numbers, you would get sqrts of 1/3, 3/3, 4/3, 6/3, etc. but we're missing the 2/3, 5/3, etc.

the 1+5 algorithm, when applied recursively, will take a fraction sqrt(a/b) and turn it into sqrt(1+a/b). therefore you will get the sqrt of a/b, (b+a)/b, (2b+a)/b, etc. which does not properly fill in the fractions between a/b and (b+a)/b.

tell me if I'm missing something stupid though...


+ Show Spoiler +

You get sqrt(2/2), sqrt(4/2), sqrt(6/2), etc. because they are equal to sqrt(1), sqrt(2), etc.

You get sqrt(2/3) by flipping sqrt(3/2)


+ Show Spoiler +

oh yeah that's right...we've filled in a/1 and a/2, and the different values for (a mod 3)/3 can be obtained by flipping previous values. so 1/3 can be gotten from flipping 3/1, and 2/3 can be gotten from flipping 3/2, and therefore a/3 is filled. and this pattern stacks on top of itself recursively.

just wanted a little clarification, sorry. I missed that little jump in the logic.
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
August 18 2010 22:11 GMT
#15
On August 19 2010 05:35 Empyrean wrote:
The calculator doesn't have number buttons.

i think that's the challenge of the problem
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
FiBsTeR
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States415 Posts
August 18 2010 22:13 GMT
#16
I remember solving this when preparing for USAMO... I think this was on a past one.
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-18 22:19:03
August 18 2010 22:18 GMT
#17
this is an old usamo problem

and VERY ANNOYING

+ Show Spoiler +

0: already exists

begin with cos 0 = 1.

now, notice that

f(x) = cot(arctan(x)) = 1/x
g_1(x) = cos(arctan(x)) = 1/sqrt(x^2+1)
g_2(x) = sin(arctan(x)) = x/sqrt(x^2+1)
h_1(x) = tan(arccos(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)/x
h_2(x) = tan(arcsin(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
h_3(x) sin(arccos(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)

so we can get any composition of these functions, applied to 1 or 0. call a number that can be reached by a sequence of keypresses "good." If n is good, so is 1/n, since 1/n = f(n). We will show that all numbers x such that x^2 is rational are good; this clearly implies the problem statement.

we only need to show that all rationals q less than 1 (and 1 is good) are good, since every rational greater than 1 is the reciprocal of a rational less than 1.

starting at 1, we find g_2(1) = 1/sqrt(2), g_2(g_2(1)) = 1/sqrt(3), and by induction, if g_2^(k)(1) = 1/sqrt(k+1) [where ^(k) means the function is composed k times], then g_2^(k+1)(1) = g_2(1/sqrt(k+1)) = (1/sqrt(k+1)) / (sqrt( (k+2)/(k+1) ) ) = 1/sqrt(k+2).

so all 1/sqrt(n), n a positive integer, can be reached.

furthermore, we find that all g_1(1/sqrt(n)) = sqrt(n/(n+1)) can be achieved.

Lemma. If sqrt(a/b) is good, so is sqrt(a/(ka+b)) for all nonnegative integers k.

Proof. Notice that g_2(sqrt(a/b)) = sqrt(a/(a+b)); by composing this repeatedly, by induction, we can achieve all sqrt(a/(ka+b)) for nonnegative integer k.

next, we use strong induction on the numerator of sqrt(a/b) to show that all square roots of rationals are good.

We can already construct all sqrt(1/b), so the base case is true.

Assume that for k = 1, 2, ..., n-1, sqrt(k/j) is good for all integers j.

Now, we need only show that all sqrt(n/j) are good, which would complete the induction. If gcd(j,n) = g > 1, then we can cancel g from the top and bottom and get a numerator between 1 and n inclusive, so the statement is true. Hence, we only need to consider cases where gcd(j,n)=1.

Otherwise, let j' be the smallest positive integer so that (j-j' ) is divisible by n; clearly j'<= n, and j' is not n because we don't need to consider when gcd(j,n)>1. Then sqrt(j'/k) is good by the induction hypothesis, so f(sqrt(j'/k)) = sqrt(k/j' ) is also good. Then by the lemma, we can construct all sqrt(k/(j'+k)), so we get all denominators that are j' mod k.

Since we have considered all residues mod k, the denominator can therefore be any positive integer, and the induction is complete.

Writer
Surrealz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States449 Posts
August 18 2010 22:37 GMT
#18
On August 19 2010 07:18 ]343[ wrote:
this is an old usamo problem

and VERY ANNOYING

+ Show Spoiler +

0: already exists

begin with cos 0 = 1.

now, notice that

f(x) = cot(arctan(x)) = 1/x
g_1(x) = cos(arctan(x)) = 1/sqrt(x^2+1)
g_2(x) = sin(arctan(x)) = x/sqrt(x^2+1)
h_1(x) = tan(arccos(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)/x
h_2(x) = tan(arcsin(x)) = x/sqrt(1-x^2)
h_3(x) sin(arccos(x)) = sqrt(1-x^2)

so we can get any composition of these functions, applied to 1 or 0. call a number that can be reached by a sequence of keypresses "good." If n is good, so is 1/n, since 1/n = f(n). We will show that all numbers x such that x^2 is rational are good; this clearly implies the problem statement.

we only need to show that all rationals q less than 1 (and 1 is good) are good, since every rational greater than 1 is the reciprocal of a rational less than 1.

starting at 1, we find g_2(1) = 1/sqrt(2), g_2(g_2(1)) = 1/sqrt(3), and by induction, if g_2^(k)(1) = 1/sqrt(k+1) [where ^(k) means the function is composed k times], then g_2^(k+1)(1) = g_2(1/sqrt(k+1)) = (1/sqrt(k+1)) / (sqrt( (k+2)/(k+1) ) ) = 1/sqrt(k+2).

so all 1/sqrt(n), n a positive integer, can be reached.

furthermore, we find that all g_1(1/sqrt(n)) = sqrt(n/(n+1)) can be achieved.

Lemma. If sqrt(a/b) is good, so is sqrt(a/(ka+b)) for all nonnegative integers k.

Proof. Notice that g_2(sqrt(a/b)) = sqrt(a/(a+b)); by composing this repeatedly, by induction, we can achieve all sqrt(a/(ka+b)) for nonnegative integer k.

next, we use strong induction on the numerator of sqrt(a/b) to show that all square roots of rationals are good.

We can already construct all sqrt(1/b), so the base case is true.

Assume that for k = 1, 2, ..., n-1, sqrt(k/j) is good for all integers j.

Now, we need only show that all sqrt(n/j) are good, which would complete the induction. If gcd(j,n) = g > 1, then we can cancel g from the top and bottom and get a numerator between 1 and n inclusive, so the statement is true. Hence, we only need to consider cases where gcd(j,n)=1.

Otherwise, let j' be the smallest positive integer so that (j-j' ) is divisible by n; clearly j'<= n, and j' is not n because we don't need to consider when gcd(j,n)>1. Then sqrt(j'/k) is good by the induction hypothesis, so f(sqrt(j'/k)) = sqrt(k/j' ) is also good. Then by the lemma, we can construct all sqrt(k/(j'+k)), so we get all denominators that are j' mod k.

Since we have considered all residues mod k, the denominator can therefore be any positive integer, and the induction is complete.



thank you sir
1a2a3a
palanq
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States761 Posts
August 18 2010 22:45 GMT
#19
since you have all the inverse functions, the problem is equivalent to taking any arbitrary rational number ( = a/b for some integers a and b) and turning it into zero. might be a useful approach going at it from the other direction
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
August 18 2010 22:59 GMT
#20
Incomplete
+ Show Spoiler +

method 1:
tan(cot-1(n)) = 1/n
so for any n=1/(a/b) you can also get to n=a/b

method 2:
cos(tan-1(n))) = 1/sq(n^2+1)
combined with method 1
tan(cot-1(cos(tan-1(sq(a)) = sq(a+1)
starting with 0, this pattern allows for all positive integers - but only for integers for now

now for some modulus:
some x where
x mod b is equivalent to a mod b
(x/b can be expressed as x/b+C where C is an integer)
x^2 mod b^2 is equivalent to x^2 mod b^2
also where
x mod b is equivalent to b - (x mod b)
x^2 mod b^2 is equivalent to x^2 mod b^2
this is less important though

in these cases n=x/b can be express as sq(x^2/b^2 + D) where D is some integer
combined with method 2, the conclusion is that given a/b you can get to any n=a/b+C where C is a positive integer

anyways the final piece of the puzzle is continued fractions where we want to express all rational numbers as
1/1/(1/ (a +C)+D) +E)....

I haven't gotten there yet.





Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
GreatFall
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1061 Posts
August 18 2010 23:04 GMT
#21
I'd buy a new calculator and still not be able to solve it!
Inventor of the 'Burning Tide' technique to quickly getting Outmatched Crusher achivement :D
blankspace
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States292 Posts
August 18 2010 23:29 GMT
#22
The solution idea is fairly simple but kinda annoying to write up (use strong induction)

+ Show Spoiler +
A: cot(arctanx) = 1/x
B: cos(arctanx) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)

We can get 1 from 0 with cos. We can get 1/sqrt(n) for all n by doing this: B(1) = 1/sqrt2, B(A(1/sqrt2)) = 1/sqrt3 and etc.

We can get any sqrt(p/q). Suppose I wanted to get sqrt(23/14), well then if i could get sqrt(9/14) I'd be done (apply B and A). Then if I could get sqrt(14/9) I would be done (by A). Similarly if I could get sqrt(5/9), sqrt (9/5), sqrt (4/5), sqrt (5/4), sqrt(1/4) and then we done.

It's pretty easy to see this process has to terminate into form sqrt(1/n), it's euclidean algorithm with 2 relatively prime numbers p,q.



the old usamo problem did not have the cotangent key so 1/x was more annoying to get.
Hello friends
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
August 18 2010 23:48 GMT
#23
On August 19 2010 08:29 blankspace wrote:
The solution idea is fairly simple but kinda annoying to write up (use strong induction)

+ Show Spoiler +
A: cot(arctanx) = 1/x
B: cos(arctanx) = 1/sqrt(1+x^2)

We can get 1 from 0 with cos. We can get 1/sqrt(n) for all n by doing this: B(1) = 1/sqrt2, B(A(1/sqrt2)) = 1/sqrt3 and etc.

We can get any sqrt(p/q). Suppose I wanted to get sqrt(23/14), well then if i could get sqrt(9/14) I'd be done (apply B and A). Then if I could get sqrt(14/9) I would be done (by A). Similarly if I could get sqrt(5/9), sqrt (9/5), sqrt (4/5), sqrt (5/4), sqrt(1/4) and then we done.

It's pretty easy to see this process has to terminate into form sqrt(1/n), it's euclidean algorithm with 2 relatively prime numbers p,q.



the old usamo problem did not have the cotangent key so 1/x was more annoying to get.


rofl euclidean algorithm. i am a retard. (wait i even saw that, kind of, ish... -____-)
Writer
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 35m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech150
BRAT_OK 74
UpATreeSC 70
MindelVK 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 22830
Calm 4907
Sea 3713
Rain 1104
Bisu 679
Dewaltoss 137
Aegong 76
Hm[arnc] 70
Barracks 36
Free 36
[ Show more ]
scan(afreeca) 24
910 20
NaDa 18
Rock 17
Dota 2
Gorgc5404
qojqva1570
Counter-Strike
fl0m1393
adren_tv85
ptr_tv24
Other Games
singsing2453
Grubby2366
FrodaN1013
hiko875
B2W.Neo728
DeMusliM322
Liquid`VortiX152
KnowMe127
ArmadaUGS119
ToD119
RotterdaM108
Trikslyr70
C9.Mang038
NotJumperer7
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL390
Other Games
BasetradeTV73
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 206
• StrangeGG 32
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota247
League of Legends
• Nemesis5553
• TFBlade1147
• Shiphtur412
Upcoming Events
OSC
6h 35m
The PondCast
16h 35m
Replay Cast
1d 6h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
OSC
2 days
SC Evo Complete
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-22
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.