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It's funny how things have changed since the beginning of the beta. At first, I would use robotics units for every single match-up, but with mutalisk openings and switches, air units becoming more popular, and overall just players dealing with colossi better, I have become more favourable to psionic storm.
One thing that is a like a hidden bonus is that their units have to run out of storm most of the time, which reduces their armies overall damage output, whereas yours can still fire on the rest of their army that stayed. Versus Terran it makes them waste time running about and might make them have to stim again, further lowering their HP.
Anyway, one of the problems with playing high templar openings is that either you make a robotics facility and then a twilight council, or that you make the council blindly without being able to thoroughly scout your opponent. I've been throwing around some ideas to get around this and I've decided to try opening with a twilight council and upgrading hallucination in order to scout.
Has anyone been opening with twilight council? If so, what do you use to scout them effectively? Versus Terran for example if you didn't scout and they went a banshee build, you might be fucked. Have you tried hallucinated phoenix's for scouting?
I plan on playing some games and updating this blog as to whether this is useful or not.
Update: First replay PvZ: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/57372-1v1-protoss-zerg-delta-quadrant . Worked pretty good. I liked using storm a lot more, and it helped me hold off a quick attack by the Zerg. I use the phoenix to scout to make sure there is no mutalisk coming my way, but in case there was, I could add cannons and make some archons.
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I will sometimes open TC if I see a terran going 3 rax. This prob should be in the sc2 strategy discussion though, what is your rank?
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On August 16 2010 08:57 Whiplash wrote:
I will sometimes open TC if I see a terran going 3 rax. This prob should be in the sc2 strategy discussion though, what is your rank?
I put it in blogs because I intend to test this out myself and then update the blog about its success. I should have included that in the original post, which I did now. I'm 600 diamond, about 40-20.
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Any chance you'll make some sexy battle reports for your hallucination games like you did in bw ^.^
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I main as Terran, but possibly open phoenix and then add a TC and transition in to some HT? (i'm diamond win 2:1 loss ratio for reference)
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On August 16 2010 09:09 n.DieJokes wrote:
Any chance you'll make some sexy battle reports for your hallucination games like you did in bw ^.^
If I play a really epic game I might. They just took so much time to do haha; taking the pictures, photo shopping them, uploading, and then writing the blog.
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The only council opening I use PvT is a DT opening. I find it pretty useful since lots of Terrans seem to be conservative with early scans. The DTs are my main post-probe scouting until I get my expansion up. They are also pretty good pressure tools even if the Terran has turrets/scan.
Of course, as you say, if the Terran opens with banshees, I'm dead if I can't handle them well T_T
(Edit: No hallucinations though  )
PS. I'd like to see hallucinated Phoenixes as scouting units in a game sometime  . I don't understand how that would be more efficient than getting observers but I always enjoy some Protoss creativity 
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im curious to see how you make storm usefull in PvP
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United States11392 Posts
On August 16 2010 09:24 Salv wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 09:09 n.DieJokes wrote:
Any chance you'll make some sexy battle reports for your hallucination games like you did in bw ^.^ If I play a really epic game I might. They just took so much time to do haha; taking the pictures, photo shopping them, uploading, and then writing the blog.
Don't forget the best part of all, making jabs at Atrioc.
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funny enough, the size of storm is not big/good vs tanks wall where they get split out
also PvP, storm is almost impossible to pull off considering the game finish real fast. and storms cost tons of resources b4 you can put it into work.
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On August 16 2010 09:44 o3.power91 wrote:The only council opening I use PvT is a DT opening. I find it pretty useful since lots of Terrans seem to be conservative with early scans. The DTs are my main post-probe scouting until I get my expansion up. They are also pretty good pressure tools even if the Terran has turrets/scan. Of course, as you say, if the Terran opens with banshees, I'm dead if I can't handle them well T_T (Edit: No hallucinations though ) PS. I'd like to see hallucinated Phoenixes as scouting units in a game sometime . I don't understand how that would be more efficient than getting observers but I always enjoy some Protoss creativity
The idea would be that you open with twilight council tech instead of robotics. Because of that, you're not going to be able to scout them effectively past the early, early game. Once I expand I would use observers, but using hallucination instead until I have an expo is 150/100 cheaper, as well as faster than going robotics and observer.
Versus Terran I find storm to be better overall. It is good versus ground, I have used it to great effect versus tanks, and it also hits the medivacs which is nice. The only problem is if they did some banshee opening let's say, or I needed to know what they were going for whatever reason, I have no way of doing that without the robotics. The hallucinated phoenix isn't just for creativity purposes, although it does get points that category ^^.
On August 16 2010 09:55 NB wrote:
funny enough, the size of storm is not big/good vs tanks wall where they get split out
also PvP, storm is almost impossible to pull off considering the game finish real fast. and storms cost tons of resources b4 you can put it into work.
I disagree, I have some game replays where I use them to pretty good effect. I make immortals and regular gateway units, but I make a lot of HT to storm the packs of tanks & units. Check out the PvT replays I have posted here: http://www.sc2replayed.com/players/17807-salv#replay
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I'm still not convinced by storm in PvP.
Colossus seems just too strong for late game :/
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In terms of storm for PvP, I agree that it's hard to break the mold and use HT to great effect. I have used it and won, but I feel that I was just outmacroing my opponent, and it wasn't necessarily the HT that won me the game.
In terms of the overall idea however, I just played a PvZ where this worked well. The Zerg tried a zergling/hydralisk attack and because of my high templar I was able to hold that off easily, and then quickly follow up. My opponent had morphed a lot of banelings because my zealots, but storm took care of those fairly quickly and my opponent never even really had the chance to attack because I would storm on top of his army every time he stopped moving.
Also, once they are finished they become archons, which at 35+4 damage (I make quick +1 in all my PvZ) to biological units are quite powerful. Replay is here: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/57372-1v1-protoss-zerg-delta-quadrant
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i'm still 'learning' sc2 , i played bw for many years
in a 2v2 recently our opponents had around 7-8 void rays - tried storm ; was useless
it was decent against stalker armies although i imagine a decent player would blink out - still very effective against terran infantry i found but usually the infantry rush comes far before you get a reasonable amount of stormers
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On August 16 2010 18:47 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
i'm still 'learning' sc2 , i played bw for many years
in a 2v2 recently our opponents had around 7-8 void rays - tried storm ; was useless
it was decent against stalker armies although i imagine a decent player would blink out - still very effective against terran infantry i found but usually the infantry rush comes far before you get a reasonable amount of stormers
Maybe against a rush it wouldn't be effective, but getting one high templar with storm takes the same amount of time as a colossus, so it's not like you would have either.
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On August 16 2010 10:42 Salv wrote:In terms of storm for PvP, I agree that it's hard to break the mold and use HT to great effect. I have used it and won, but I feel that I was just outmacroing my opponent, and it wasn't necessarily the HT that won me the game. In terms of the overall idea however, I just played a PvZ where this worked well. The Zerg tried a zergling/hydralisk attack and because of my high templar I was able to hold that off easily, and then quickly follow up. My opponent had morphed a lot of banelings because my zealots, but storm took care of those fairly quickly and my opponent never even really had the chance to attack because I would storm on top of his army every time he stopped moving. Also, once they are finished they become archons, which at 35+4 damage (I make quick +1 in all my PvZ) to biological units are quite powerful. Replay is here: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/57372-1v1-protoss-zerg-delta-quadrant
Yea i haven't tried storms in PvZ yet but after a really frustrating game yesterday i think i will give it a shoot.
It was vs hydraling too 
The problem i have vs this army combo is that colossus tech is so expensive that you can't afford to get charge lots + colossus + up + expo if the zerg is trying to be agressive with hydras after his second base.
Even if you manage to get a comfortable zeal+colossus army he can switch to corruptors so easily and you will get destroyed because you won't have enough stalkers ( need gaz for colossus ).
Btw for PvT i was already 200% convinced that storms >>>> colossus and i gonna try this in PvZ now
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Yeah, I have posted the replay that I play, it's not like a spectacular game, but it works. Also, when you think about it, colossi are not ideal in a lot of situations, whereas storm is useful versus pretty much everything. I'll post more replays as I play today with it.
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On August 16 2010 10:05 Salv wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2010 09:55 NB wrote:
funny enough, the size of storm is not big/good vs tanks wall where they get split out
also PvP, storm is almost impossible to pull off considering the game finish real fast. and storms cost tons of resources b4 you can put it into work. I disagree, I have some game replays where I use them to pretty good effect. I make immortals and regular gateway units, but I make a lot of HT to storm the packs of tanks & units. Check out the PvT replays I have posted here: http://www.sc2replayed.com/players/17807-salv#replay
yes, i have used it vs tanks b4 but mostly bc those Terran never use tanks to focus down HT. remember how tanks focus reavers out? same thing happen here
the problem is 1 storm cant fully kill a tank + and the size of it barely cover 2 tanks "sitting near each other" (which mostly never happen).
but what ever man, its more of a situation base thingy... after T got cloaked ghost, its really hard to take down a planetary fortress using storm and ground tech.
the new trend is VRs carrier mothership late game =)
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gateway/immortal/high templar shits all over roach/hydra. It's pretty silly how good it is. I personally find it harder to deal with than stalker/colossus.
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On August 16 2010 23:40 Saracen wrote:gateway/immortal/high templar shits all over roach/hydra. It's pretty silly how good it is. I personally find it harder to deal with than stalker/colossus.
Isn't that what Idra was talking about? That toss would eventually use less 2 base stalker colossus and go with more gateway immortal templar archon.
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Storm sucks at dealing with Terran bionics now. Storm in BW will totally shut down any MM opening because once cast, it kills. Now it's more a supplemental spell in battle, I've always found that gateway units en mass with the right flank and pressure deals the best against Terran.
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On August 17 2010 00:12 haduken wrote:
Storm sucks at dealing with Terran bionics now. Storm in BW will totally shut down any MM opening because once cast, it kills. Now it's more a supplemental spell in battle, I've always found that gateway units en mass with the right flank and pressure deals the best against Terran.
Sure Storm isn't as good vs bio than in bw but it is definitly the best option vs huge marauder armies late game.
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In response to the OP, I often do hallucination scout + twilight council, and it seems to work pretty well, but a lot of times I end up getting robotics anyway if there's a possibility of banshees.
However, I really don't like storm in PvP. A lot of its power in PvT and PvZ comes from the fact that it can kill marines, zerglings, and hydras in one storm if they don't move. It takes a much smaller chunk of health off most protoss units and that makes it proportionally weaker. Also, teching up to storm in PvP right now seems pretty dangerous given how popular 4-5 gate all-ins are in the matchup.
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After playing some games, I have decided to try to give storm a fair shake in PvP. In a straight fight, there is no contest, as it takes many storms to bring down a colossus, and colossi out damage a templar in my opinion. However in my mind while theorycrafting, if you could manage to flank the Protoss with your larger ground force you would maybe be able to win battles. The colossi would have to move or risk being targeted directly by half your force; colossi need units in between them and the opponents army or they fall too quickly before doing enough damage to make their cost worthwhile. Meanwhile, you're storming his army. It's worth a shot at least.
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EPT
