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protoss:
warp prism: now is 100/40 instead of 40/100
observer move speed slightly increased
terran:
viking range reduced to 7 from 9. acceleration increased.
speed of lifted buildings decreased slightly
planetary fortress splash damage decreased heavily
bunker build time increased to 45 seconds from 30
zerg:
hydralisk speed upgrade introduced. increases speed off of creep only to 3 (same as roach with upgrade), from 2.25
queen build time reduced to 35 seconds from 50
roach armor increased to 2
roach regeneration upgrade (non burrowed) is back at hive
  
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Calgary25998 Posts
ok thats great how about some explanation or something?
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On August 15 2010 13:20 Chill wrote:
ok thats great how about some explanation or something?
agreed ;/
i dont c the point in some of these like the hydralisk one
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you do realize there's another race in Starcraft
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I think there should be changes to random as well:
If the opponent is Terran, there will be an 80% chance that you will get Zerg, and 10% that you will get Terran, and 10% for Protoss
If the opponent is Zerg, there will be 80% chance that you will get Zerg, and 15% for Protoss and 5% for Terran
If the opponent is Protoss, there will be 70% chance that you will get Protoss, 20% chance of Terran, and 10% chance of Zerg
If the opponent is Random, then you will get desert oasis as the map
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Agreed with Chill... and...
On August 15 2010 13:12 esla_sol wrote:
protoss:
warp prism: now is 100/40 instead of 40/100
observer move speed slightly increased
terran:
viking range reduced to 7 from 9. acceleration increased.
speed of lifted buildings decreased slightly
planetary fortress splash damage decreased heavily
bunker build time increased to 45 seconds from 30
zerg:
hydralisk speed upgrade introduced. increases speed off of creep only to 3 (same as roach with upgrade), from 2.25
queen build time reduced to 35 seconds from 50
roach armor increased to 2
roach regeneration upgrade (non burrowed) is back at hive
1. wtf do you mean by warp prism change O_0
2. observers have an upgrade for this
3. vikings need this range or they get torn apart in straight up air battles... but given the greater acceleration maybe this won't hurt as much as I think it would...
4. This is meh for me... they're already plenty slow imo
5. No... the splash is fine as it is (and I think they changed the priority of workers repairing it, maybe not)
6. Bunker build time is fine as it is, bunker rushes are relatively easy to stop unless you don't scout it.
7. Hydralisks are this slow off creep for a reason, there's no reason they should be able to run away from charge upgraded zealots (after the initial charge)
8. Queen build time is fine, no need to have queen rush builds become the norm.
9. Since they're 2 supply now, I can see this as being a fair buff for the roach/... imo they melt wayyyyyy to easily to focused stim marine fire.
10. At this point I'm not sure if putting the regen upgrade would make much of a difference as at hive tier unit-wise this regen will get them an extra (random guesstimate) 10hp over the course of a battle.
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alrighty ^_^ some explanation
ive always felt vikings were too strong at countering heavy air such as broodlords. i want there to be more risk involved for vikings when dealing with heavy air, rather than just spamming them and sitting behind your defense impenetrably.
i like the idea of giving the warp prism more shields so that even if it takes heavy damage, it can still regen and come back again. i feel like protoss drop mechanics are the worst in the game. i would also be inclined to decrease the warp prism speed upgrade to something like 50/50 or 100/50.
while it is true the observer has an upgrade for speed, with the current mechanics of the game protoss is heavily gas starved. in sc1 it was a vital upgrade in order to deal with the lurker, however it isnt worth the investment barring some strange circumstances, like a mass banshee.
the planetary fortress is just too effective, and allows terran players to expand freely when they really shouldnt be able to. i feel like a nerf of the splash to somewhere around a half would allow the expansion to be harassed by a small group of forces, and would make it so a terran would have to devote additional resources to defending an expansion. in addition, it would make using them as defense towards choke points later in the game less effective.
i felt the bunker change was needed so that terran's dont just have an oh shit button they can press, and would have to be slightly more aware. this will also hurt bunker rushes, and give probes a better chance at killing the scv before it finishes.
for the zerg changes, the roach has just been terrible since the 2 supply nerf. giving them the hive upgrade would make roaches a viable late game unit, and especially good at harassing, which i feel should be one of the roaches primary uses. the armor upgrade allows them to better deal with the units they should be countering, namely the ling/zealot/marine.
i felt the queen change could help speed up the zerg early game. this would make defense of early game cheese a lot easier for zerg. in addition, it would make things like void rays slightly easier to defend. other benefits include the ability to spread creep faster, as you will you have the energy for it earlier.
the hydralisk speed upgrade is well needed. the unit is currently just too bulky, and forming good arcs and microing with them just cant happen unless creep exists. ranged units need the ability to kite, especially low hp units like the hydra. this will also make it so zerg could utilize more flanking maneuvers off of creep. this will make dodging storms and fighting collosus a lot easier.
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On August 15 2010 13:12 esla_sol wrote:
queen build time reduced to 35 seconds from 50
You forgot "Queen starts with 200 energy" LOL.
Muta > Viking
Phoenix > Viking
More nerf > Viking?
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 15 2010 13:45 esla_sol wrote:
alrighty ^_^ some explanation
ive always felt vikings were too strong at countering heavy air such as broodlords. i want there to be more risk involved for vikings when dealing with heavy air, rather than just spamming them and sitting behind your defense impenetrably.
i like the idea of giving the warp prism more shields so that even if it takes heavy damage, it can still regen and come back again. i feel like protoss drop mechanics are the worst in the game. i would also be inclined to decrease the warp prism speed upgrade to something like 50/50 or 100/50.
while it is true the observer has an upgrade for speed, with the current mechanics of the game protoss is heavily gas starved. in sc1 it was a vital upgrade in order to deal with the lurker, however it isnt worth the investment barring some strange circumstances, like a mass banshee.
the planetary fortress is just too effective, and allows terran players to expand freely when they really shouldnt be able to. i feel like a nerf of the splash to somewhere around a half would allow the expansion to be harassed by a small group of forces, and would make it so a terran would have to devote additional resources to defending an expansion. in addition, it would make using them as defense towards choke points later in the game less effective.
i felt the bunker change was needed so that terran's dont just have an oh shit button they can press, and would have to be slightly more aware. this will also hurt bunker rushes, and give probes a better chance at killing the scv before it finishes.
for the zerg changes, the roach has just been terrible since the 2 supply nerf. giving them the hive upgrade would make roaches a viable late game unit, and especially good at harassing, which i feel should be one of the roaches primary uses. the armor upgrade allows them to better deal with the units they should be countering, namely the ling/zealot/marine.
i felt the queen change could help speed up the zerg early game. this would make defense of early game cheese a lot easier for zerg. in addition, it would make things like void rays slightly easier to defend. other benefits include the ability to spread creep faster, as you will you have the energy for it earlier.
the hydralisk speed upgrade is well needed. the unit is currently just too bulky, and forming good arcs and microing with them just cant happen unless creep exists. ranged units need the ability to kite, especially low hp units like the hydra. this will also make it so zerg could utilize more flanking maneuvers off of creep. this will make dodging storms and fighting collosus a lot easier.
Ok awesome, you actually put some thought into this. So I'll respond kindly to a few I have problems with.
Your broodlord point... the reason vikings are so strong vs them is because broodlords have 250hp AND they rape EVERYTHING on the ground. Thus, air needs to be VERY strong vs them.
Warp prism point seems semi-valid, I just don't feel like protoss drop mechanics are that bad since they double as a warp-in point.
You proved why the obs isn't all-important, so having an extra speed boost isn't vital unless some sort of banshee cheese (for which the counter isn't that gas intensive and you should be able to upgrade the obs easily)
P Fort is fine, I have no reasons to back this up, just from matches I've played and streams I've watched.
Your bunker point is valid, but I think the correct response is not to increase bunker build time, but to decrease spine crawler build time.
Already agree with your Roach points for the most part, no dispute.
Queens on 35s timer = Zerg cheese imbaness... if the Z had that many zerglings 15 seconds earlier it completely changes the viability of any tech build for either T or P... and without a real wall P is screwed trying to hold that off with anything but a Zeal/sentry rush.
I can't agree on hydra speed default being necessary... maybe find another way to buff them... like make the speed boost an upgrade.
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The one change that I do agree with is the viking change, but I think it should be 7 range with a +2 range upgrade available in the tech lab for 200/200. When we look at other units such as zealot charge, stalker blink, roach burrow, etc, they have their uses in the early game against enemy tier 1 units, but get outshined in the later stages. After you get their upgrade, their utility comes back and it's almost like they are a whole new unit that has their part in the mid game. Vikings without range deal with stuff like slow void rays, phoenix, mutas, etc, but their range is important for carriers, bcs, and broodlords.
This change will not be much in the lower tier air units since their range doesn't give them much of an edge, but in the late game, their upgrade causes a slight inconvenience making enemy tech switches more viable. In the current state when tier 3 air hits, there is ample time to start spamming vikings from the 2 starports that you already have, but with the upgrade, you have to micro against tier 3 units by pulling back damaged vikings rather than kiting them.
As a P player, I would believe that this would bring colossi back as a viable unit as well. Vikings with 9 range pretty much completely rule out the utility of colossi. In order to get colossi, protoss has to build 1-2 robos, robo support bay, get the thermal lance upgrade, and then build the colossi. Once Terran scans colossi, they just have to build 2 vikings from the starports that they already have. The punishment for protoss getting colossi is completely gameshifting. By having this range upgrade for the vikings, it creates a much needed timing window where protoss is able to push with colossi. Without this timing window, Terran has the mid game upper hand with ghosts and maintains the upper hand all the way to late game bcs.
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My rundown:
1. (warp prism): eh...sure, sounds fine
2. (obs speed) unnecessary and won't change the game at all.
3. (Viking Range): Their range IS pretty obnoxious, but I think increasing acceleration is going to make them equally as OP, if not more. I would leave speed alone and maybe bump the range down to 8.
4. (building speed) Doesn't matter in the least
5. (planetary fortress) Heavily? I don't know, a slight nerf would be welcome cause as it stands its almost impossible to kill without losing half ur army if terran mass repairs. Heavily though? The whole point of it is terran has a much harder time defending expos. Less mobile army, and not as cost effective defensive structures (bunkers suck compared to spines and cannons, especially cause they waste population). I would nerf it a bit, but not that much.
6 (Bunker time) I don't give a shit about the building time. What I have a problem with is how ridiculous salvage is. Maybe nerf that so it won't give full minerals back or something, cause as it stands terran can bunker rush a zerg with almost no cost at all.
7. (Hydra speed) I would absolutely love this. Hydras feel so slow and clumsy off creep to the point where they are almost unusable, definitely not what zerg is about. I think their stats might have to be lowered slightly to keep them balanced though.
8. (Queen time) No, queen time is fine as it is. All opening builds seem fairly balanced right now in terms of how great an econ each race can establish. This would give zerg too much of an advantage early game IMO.
9. That could work, although to retain Zerg's "mass + swarmy" feel I'd rather roaches be weakened but be back at 1 supply.
10. (Roach regen) Doesn't matter
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its really a myth that terran has the least mobile army. that was true in sc1, but its no longer the case in sc2. pure mech is immobile, but pure mech is not as good as a bio mech mixtures. a marauder ball is incredibly mobile and threatening. not to mention what a drop can do, as youll have the medvacs anyway. if anything i would say that zerg is the least mobile, considering they are bound to the limits of their creep much of the time.
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EPT
