• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:31
CET 10:31
KST 18:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview11Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)38
StarCraft 2
General
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview StarCraft 2 Not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 28 KSL Week 85 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open!
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained
Brood War
General
Can someone share very abbreviated BW cliffnotes? BW General Discussion [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Bleak Future After Failed ProGaming Career
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Path of Exile Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Let's Get Creative–Video Gam…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1710 users

[sc2]Terran 2

Blogs > Nightmarjoo
Post a Reply
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-11 13:23:01
July 11 2010 12:47 GMT
#1
Continuation of http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=135315. Here's day 3 of phase 2 beta.

Yesterday I ended with 223, 18th place in my div (medivac alamo, diamond), 41-30.
Today I'm ending at 300 even, 12th place, 59-42. So I went 18-12 and gained 77 points, not too shabby. I also played 8 tvps vs my friend in custom games. I was at 310 or something at one point in the day, #9th place.

I was doing pretty well today, but started running into trouble with tvp. I don't think I lost a single tvz. I think I lost just 2 tvts, maybe a couple more.

In tvt I was using the fast thor + maurauder build I described yesterday. I had a lot of success with it, especially compared to my dismal tvt win rate yesterday.

The first game I lost with it might have actually been against its counter, I'm not sure since I fucked up badly. He went 2 or 3rax marine + tank support. I decided it was a good idea to meet him before he got in my nat. My version of meeting him before he got to my nat was targetting his single (he might have had a 2nd one, not sure) tank which was behind a large group of marines (who had stim) with both my thor and my few maurauders. Everything on my end was vaporized into vapor in literally less than a second, it was pretty funny. Obviously I messed that up, but I wonder if I wouldn't have lost anyway had I done better (not attacked the tank, stalled a bit with bunker or something, had more scvs repairing thor, etc).

Second loss was on fucking kulas. He went marine drop -> maurauder expo. My units were not prepared for his drop, I didn't know it was coming (I didn't bother scanning), and was just about to move out as my thor was about finished, so he did a little damage, nothing major though, I just had to pull scvs very quickly. But then I decided it would be a good idea to counter attack right away. Into bunkers and sieged tanks, with his cc already up and running. So basically I was fucked, both behind and having suicided units to no avail. We were horizontally close, and my maurauders and thors killed the rock block before he could with his tanks, so I kept killing one of his geysers and somewhat killing scvs/keeping them off mining, but he had quite a few sieged tanks and vikings/medics to give vision. I kept picking off tanks (he wasn't very smart), but I could never really do damage. I also wasn't macroing very well. He got his gold expo up first, and I attacked it with my maurauders, but lost the cliff at the same time. I took my gold expo and attacked his main with the maurauders, but he tank dropped my gold expo whilst cleaning up his main without too many losses (already twice stimmed maurauders with no medics die quickly), and I just didn't have the firepower to stop it, game over.
Again, I made mistakes, but that build might legitimately counter the build, hard to say. I really should've been able to get my gold expo up before him, since I was making 3rax maurauder and 1fact thor only.

For tvp, I was using the variation of gretorp's ghost/marine build I described yesterday for the most part. However, with this build I have no answer to fucking blistering sands, and have no answer to dt. I can only emp shadows so many times if he's making constant dts, and it's not like he doesn't have other units as well. Furthermore, the build feels too passive to me despite yielding a sizeable marine count. I don't like not being able to use my units if I have that many, but attempts to do so when timing windows were ostensibly open have lost me quite a few games. If p has 3+ gates, I can't attack because his army will rape mine, and if p hard teched instead I can't attack because I don't have detection or can't leave my base due to some sort of harass.

I tried avilo's ghost/mech 1/1/1 opening on blistering sands once, but I got raped. I just didn't have the unit count to fight him once he broke down my backdoor. I should see if I have the replay, it's too soon to fault the build for what was probably my retardation. However, taking his advice to do a bw style fd push with the first tank + marines was a complete disaster, losing all but one marine.

I ended up playing this guy called Sonic twice. First game was on desert oasis, and I went thor drop. Too bad stalkers can hit a thor from the main. But he didn't use blink aggressively (pretty sure he had it relatively early though, I could be wrong), so I was completely untouched going into midgame. But I never secured a 3rd base. I lost the game in a big fight not too long into the game where I lost my entire army. He only had a couple stalkers left, but I'd completely lost map control, and he had a gold expo up that I couldn't touch. I probably would have won (or atleast it would have gone on evenly for longer) if I hadn't forgotten to bring scvs with my thors to repair them. I lost 3 thors in that battle lol.

In the second game vs him, he did the gayest fucking build I've ever seen: he went like 3gate robo, getting a prism and immortals and harassing me with that, while getting colos. I think my mistake was expoing vs the all-ining faggot. AmbrosiaNation (aka varsityuser), one of the biggest faggot hackers of bw actually had one good line of advice: to not expo before protoss in bw. I'm thinking that advice rings true in sc2. When I saw his robo (and an immortal) and 3gates (lost temple), I responded by making 3 bunkers in my nat, and then expoing. I had 2rax, one making ghosts, one making marines (no reactor). I chased his stupid prism around my base, but he kept killing my spotting depots on the edges, and even took out one bunker from my nat cliff (I didn't replace it). Without stim and without spreading my units (I was worried about the inevitably impending all-in at my nat, and stayed near my ramp) I couldn't even do a single damage to the immortals. I kept emping the prism, but it didn't matter, fucker is too fast. Game ended when he attacked my nat with his army while simultaneously dropping his immortals in the very back of my main. I didn't even have enough units (2 bunkers) to touch his army, let alone deal with the drop at the same time. I feel like just making 2 more rax and delaying cc still couldn't beat this build, I think gretorp's build simply has no answer. For this situation, avilo's build would have been far superior.

Aside from those two games, I lost a few others to blistering sand and/or mass dt, and also lost some long games to mass colos (who'd have thought an army consisting mostly of marines and ghosts would lose to mass colos!?). I think I'm forced to try to use my variation of avilo's build from now on, I just can't see any way to win certain scenarios opening with gretorp's build. I'm not a fan of pure mech though, so I'll just transition into some ghost/maurauder/tank/banshee/hellion build, getting bcs after securing 3rd base. I did that once today on metalopolis, and it was really fun. I had enough tanks that he could never just attack me head-on at any point in the game, and so that I could be somewhat aggressive. Additionally, I could harass a lot with the banshees I made as an answer to his colos, and with hellions later when I got them (lategame I had a tech fact and reactor fact and made pure hellion, opting to put my gas into bcs and upgrades, but making tanks from the tech fact is probably smarter).

So tomorow looks like another day of freewins vs zerg, a little bit of work associated with refining the thor/maurauder build tvt, and starting from scratch basically with tvp. Gonna give avilo's opening a shot. I feel like learned a fair amount about tvp from trying gretorp's build, but that the build itself just has too many holes. It's great vs voidray, and nothing else really. Most of my wins with it came from protoss trying to attack my army head-on without colos/storm, and of course marine/emp does rape that situation. It's also somewhat map sensitive from what I saw, backdoors on kulas and blistering sands really strain the build. Vs non-allins it's pretty solid, and like I said it blocks voidray pretty well, but even on maps without backdoors it seems hard to fight 4gate or fast colos. Making 4rax and getting a shitload of marines with decent ghost count doesn't really help, because if they have colos, a large marine count just turns into a pretty orange colour across the screen, and against no-colos, I still can't actually attack protoss, since my gas is going into ghost (not upgrades, not tanks, not banshees), and my minerals are going into marines and depots (and ghosts) (not a cc), so p can just skip a round of units and expo before me while maintaining map control. Making a lot of bunkers and staying on 2rax works for maps without backdoors if they don't go drop, but if they do that falls apart.

I've seen bratok's version of ghost/marine: he delays cc until after ebay/medics/stim/marine hp, very awkward to me. Also I don't see how his build is any better against colos, drop + heavy gate, dts, or backdoor. Against all but the last of those avilo's has an answer in the form of banshee/viking, viking + tank, and raven respectively. Against backdoor bullshit, who knows.


Here's a replay pack of today's games. I don't know what replays are in here and what aren't, it's the few games I did save (which I think are mostly horrible losses) + the few reps saved in "unsaved" folder. It's possible a few are repeats, I didn't look at them. I think most of my tvzs were earlier in the day, and the "unsaved" reps don't go that far back I think, so there might be no tvzs in there. If that's the case, then I don't have any tvz reps, sorry (tvz is my best mu by far). I'll try to get back into the habit of saving my reps (I always saved reps in bw, but that was a very easy habit to break in phase 1 of beta since it saved all replays).
[url blocked]


Oh, and my neck is killing me. And fuck kulas/blistering sands.

***
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
Licmyobelisk
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Philippines3682 Posts
July 11 2010 13:05 GMT
#2
Yeah fuck Blistering Sands well not Kulas ^_^

that huge boulder is a pain in the ass when it's removed by your opponents, they have the ability to opt for getting in to your main or via your nat
I don't think I've ever wished my opponent good luck prior to a game. When I play, I play to win. I hope every opponent I ever have is cursed with fucking terrible luck. I hope they're stuck playing underneath a stepladder with a black cat in attendance a
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 29m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
BRAT_OK 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 1161
Hyuk 854
GuemChi 804
Larva 520
Rain 430
firebathero 420
BeSt 405
Sharp 169
Dewaltoss 164
Mini 131
[ Show more ]
Hm[arnc] 114
Zeus 104
Soma 82
ToSsGirL 79
Shinee 72
sorry 65
Killer 62
ggaemo 46
910 40
soO 37
NaDa 23
Noble 18
Backho 18
Terrorterran 6
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm139
League of Legends
JimRising 547
Super Smash Bros
Westballz6
Other Games
summit1g9409
mouzStarbuck275
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH216
• StrangeGG 54
• Adnapsc2 15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1486
• Lourlo1039
• Stunt376
Upcoming Events
HomeStory Cup
2h 29m
ShoWTimE vs sOs
Serral vs Reynor
Zoun vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs Lambo
OSC
3h 29m
Replay Cast
14h 29m
Replay Cast
1d 14h
Wardi Open
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-31
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W7
Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.