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"leopard can't change it's spots, but it can hide them."
Above quote reflects my belief. I think at some point in a person's life, his personality becomes fixed. For me, as a kid I was really loud, wild, cocky, inconsiderate. (By kid I mean age 7-13)
I'm 20 now and I've really mellowed out. People first meeting me say I'm nice and polite. And it's true. But it's not really me. It's just a layer of a mask that I put on to make society more convenient.
When I get angry, when dealing with confrontation, when I'm in a completely natural state with no stakes to my behavior, I revert back to my "default" setting.
A friend of mine is inherently nice. He's just one of those nice guys you here about. I cannot pull that niceness off. Just as he can not pull off an asshole.
So what do you guys think? Do people have a default setting and everything else is just additional layers? Or do you believe people can completely change?
Edit:
My mom says I have changed. I am no longer sloppy, I'm not messy, disorganized. However, I disagree. My messiness is a constant mental battle that I fight. True, my outer appearances, actions may have changed, but my internal mindset hasn't. I am just more vigilant in self-regulation.
On the contrary, some people I know are just naturally neat. THey have an internal neatness that doesn't require regulation.
"Change comes out of necessity." Thus implying that without a need, the change won't happen. Thus I'd contend this change is "artificial." It's not a true change in mindset, it's a change required for a more efficient mindset.
edit 2: I'm not necessarily looking for self-improvement advice. I'm just using myself as an example to get across a point.
 
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I do belive everyone can chance, if they have the will and strenght for it. Everyone needs a reason to change. A very good reason.
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Not to sound like a pretentious twat but I'm study Drama right now and I've done intensive work with voice, movement and psychology.
The number one thing actors' training does is to unwind you. To strip you of what you think you are and make you plain.
Many people come in with their nice guy settings, their pretty girl settings, etc, etc, etc. When they are asked to perform certain roles or improvisations, you can totally tell the difference between different actors. It's not always because one actor is "better" than the other, but it's their personality, what "settings" they've conditioned themselves to.
2 bipolar examples are the popular guy who has always been the center of attention and craves it and loves to take center stage to be seen.
Or there is the quiet shy guy who no one notices but wishes he could be someone else so much and so he loves to act and instead of taking stage as aggressively as the popular guy, the shy guy instead likes to be a supportive actor, feeding into the scene rather than being a star.
We all have different settings. As people, we can change these settings and personality is just so damn dependent on the specific situations.
But yes, people can completely change. I've seen it more than once and every person I've known who has joined the military has changed into a totally different person.
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On June 16 2010 17:25 krndandaman wrote:
sure people can change
you're just stuggling to make that change
i know how you feel, especially with the different culture here in korea.
here I can't even put my elbow on the table while eating which I am used to, bow to every single person older than i am, its disrespectful to pay for your own meal if someone older than you offers to pay for it even though it makes me feel fucking bad, etc. in my head im like "fuck this is stupid" but on the outside i have a smile on my face and go "sure no problem! :D"
I think you misunderstand me. There is a difference between changing and conforming. By change, I'm talking about our unconscious mental state.
Also to JJun12
With military, I don't think it's changing so much as it is conditioning. I too have conditioned myself to be anal in neatness. I cringe when I see litter and I find unwashed dishes / clutter very repulsive and feel compelled to clean it.
But naturally, I'm still just a messy person.
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People can honestly, thoroughly change. For better and for worse.
I'm a big believer in the "nurture" side of the Psychological "nature vs nurture" argument. We are a reflection of what we have been exposed to. We all have life changing events that shape our core behaviors. I truly believe people can change and we are not in some way a slave to our genetic whims.
Imagine when you're 35. I'll guess you'll be almost totally different.
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people can for sure change
i know alot of foods i used to hate hate hate to the point i thought of them as poison
now some of them i find really good!
My dad used to be a big smoker/alchy, but when i was born he stopped cuz he thought it was retarded and had the right motivation to stop. And personalities? I've seen tons of kids go from shy to outgoing or the other way, it'd probably be pretty rare for a nice guy to turn into an asshole but alot of assholes have turned into nice guys because they notice far greater benefits, just human nature to take the course of greatest benefit with the least effort and sometimes people discover things they never saw before etc etc etc.
and besides look at phineas gage
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With military, I don't think it's changing so much as it is conditioning. I too have conditioned myself to be anal in neatness. I cringe when I see litter and I find unwashed dishes / clutter very repulsive and feel compelled to clean it.
But naturally, I'm still just a messy person.
Thats pretty close to being contradictory. By the sound of it your greatly bothered by things being dirty or out of place, yet you say your still naturally a messy person. I don't think thats true at all, especially if every aspect of messiness bothers you. You were a messy person at one time perhaps, but not any more.
Someone who is naturally messy but conditioned to be clean wouldn't have a problem with his mess, but would still clean it; he wouldn't really care but because of his conditioning would do it anyway out of routine. You on the other hand, sound like your actually bothered by messiness, and quite a bit at that.
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I've seen good, hardworking people, who talk shit about "moochers" and "socialism" go straight to mush after 3 Unemployment checks.
Doesn't seem to be superficial either. The trash talking stops. At first it's "I deserve this" but is shorty followed by a long period of not looking for work or even trying. These are some old people, set in their ways and over 50.
Also, I've had friends totally on drugs. Totally "out of it"... mooching... drinking and seen them totally turn it around. Go to ITT, as one did, and graduate valedictorian. The opposite also can happen. Think of all the stories of just Addiction alone and what that tells you about human nature. For good or bad.
I think humans are flexible by nature. A circumstance may require you to be deceiving, dishonest and immoral to survive. A lot of times things like this can be seen as real character flaws, when they are indeed a result of totally changeable social conditioning.
People learn at a conscious level and unconscious as well, I believe. It's part of what makes them so interesting and unpredictable 
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Baa?21243 Posts
I don't think people can truly change. Chinese saying, "江山易改 本性难移;" roughly translated literally, "It's easy to change an empire, it's hard to change your instincts." Same basic meaning as "A leopard never changes its spots."
I don't have any real logic/examples/anecdotes or whatever, I just don't personally think people really change. I think if you see an aspect of someone change, it just means that aspect was never central to that person's instincts to begin with.
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people can change, but it takes a lot of effort and time. but if you want to be safe, just assume people can't change.
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Many times, changes are so slow and subtle you won't notice them.
For example, you talk about your messiness.
Everyone has what I call a "threshold" for messiness. I'm sure, before, if clothes were all around your room, and the bed wasn't made, maybe some dirty dishes around. You'd be fine. But, if there were like, human feces on the floor and on the walls- you might be apt to pick that up.
So, you do clean, it just takes more or less to get you to do it. As this threshold changes, you don't really notice. You just think "sometimes I clean, sometimes I don't". Always true. But I have seen it in people, where they, according to their circumstance, will slowly begin to edit what they consider messy.
If you lived in a totally clean environment (ie with roommates or a girl you wanted to impress) for a couple years... even when you got on your own, you might be more apt to pick up those dishes, even though you're still fine with the clothes and bed.
Just using this as an example, the slow, subtle change of the subconscious obviously, and rightfully, will go un noticed. Also works for "bad" things- as you figure out slowly "hey, I can get away with X, or no one really notices Y."
editL ^very true that directed self change takes a great deal of effort. Especially when focusing on some core personality flaw that is deeply ingrained.
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The difficulty with change is that you have had years of training yourself in certain ways. Your friend has years of training in 'being nice', and you have years of training in being angry when dealing with confrontation. Not only that, but it's really hard to pick up on because by this stage it's pretty automatic.
Everyone does it, so it's not like it's just you or your friend =p. If you want to change you first need to be able to catch yourself when you go down that path you normally always go down, because if you can't you're just going to keep training yourself in being 'that' (whether it be defensive in the face of confrontation or something else, I know I be funny in that kind of situation) and you can't be any other way.
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Your emotional reaction to confrontation is something you can almost certainly change. I guess you can always take the things that hadn't changed over someone's lifetime and say that was the real him but to me that feels like rationalization.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
extreme circumstances can change people sometimes, but in general people don't change
to fight who you are leads to nothing good
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i also have changed a lot, but it also comes along with an extra burden of stress.
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Life is constant change. People change like 25-30 times per second in movies, and infinitely more times in reality unless you came up with some quantum time theory :p
It's just you're likely looking for a different difference.
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people have a huge potential for change in certain ways and are incredibly resistant in other ways. it really depends on the person and in what aspect its referring to. in general though I agree with you first statement that after a certain point in someone's life they are pretty resistant to huge changes in how they are.
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some people can change, some will never change.
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You can, and you will, it just takes a long time. You can't just snap your fingers and instantly change your personality, even if you've had a traumatic event. But it will gradually change if you put your mind to it.
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People never change, ever. An alcoholic will always be one. Just because they stop drinking doesn't mean they don't have a crave for a drink. Same goes with any drug user. If you have to mental battle with yourself to do something, you have not changed at all.
People are who they are, and that is the end of it. I have never seen anyone change, becuase in the end they still feel the same way as before.
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You can't change people, but people can change themselves.
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I'm not sure you really change. Once a dick usually means always a dick, in my experience. I know I like to live in a mess. My parents have finally realized this and stay out of my room. I'm also a cocky bastard, I try to keep it under wraps though (sometimes). I can't really help it, I'm ambitious, I like winning, and I'm proud of my achievements. I'll swallow my defeats though. While you can change superficial things, your basic personality is probably set in stone.
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Personality only changes over a long timeframe. People can learn/unlearn behavior pretty easily and quickly, at least if they want to, but who they are essentialy stays the same for a longer time.
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On June 17 2010 00:28 eLiE wrote:
I'm not sure you really change. Once a dick usually means always a dick, in my experience. I know I like to live in a mess. My parents have finally realized this and stay out of my room. I'm also a cocky bastard, I try to keep it under wraps though (sometimes). I can't really help it, I'm ambitious, I like winning, and I'm proud of my achievements. I'll swallow my defeats though. While you can change superficial things, your basic personality is probably set in stone.
This just sounds like you're young. I doubt any of these will be defining character attributes in 15 years. (aka when you're 30?)
Anyways, that's just a guess. No way I'll ever know
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Without defining change this is just about as useful as debating the meaning of life.
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I guess I'll tell you in 10 years. I doubt much will have changed, I've been like this for almost 20 years. I think I could define myself a chaotic perfectionist. I know I can't seem to change my sleep schedule, that's for sure.
EDIT: In response to change by necessity, I think it could be better called adaptation. I think it carries the proper meaning of a short term change as a means of overcoming challenges, not necessarily as a permanent change of character.
And so what if it makes me look young? Lots of successful people share the same character as I do. There's nothing wrong with it, and it gives me purpose in my life.
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Some people can change. I think I have changed. I use to be very quiet and not outgoing at all around people. Now I'll walk up to people I don't know and say hello and get comfortable around people I never would have before. So, I changed but that could have just been part of growing up for me. I know a friend of mine who was suicidal changed his outlook and now is doing great... again that could just be circumstantial. Who knows though ^_^ It'd be cool if people were able to change though. The people who actually learn from their mistakes are the people who change though aren't they?
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Just be who you are, act as naturally as you can all the time.
Experiences sometimes make people choose what parts of themselves to show in certain situations.
If you can handle the prose , read "self reliance" by Ralph Emerson. A humble perspective on why to act anything but how you feel is natural is waste of everyone's life.
But you underestimate the immense power we have. If you will something, if you _intend_ for it to happen , there is basically nothing that can escape your force of will unless you waver.
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EPT
