EPTResponsibility - Page 3
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
They are only trying to hold people like us down because of fear and envy. We will prevail. | ||
Waxangel
United States33713 Posts
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:48 Holgerius wrote: Agreed. This whole thing really makes me appreciate and admire the behavior of Nony in TSL when he disconnected and then conceded the game without making a fuss or demanding a regame. If only all people had that level of sportsmanship.  Fuck you, Slush! This man speaks the truth! Well, him and Rekrul. | ||
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Squeegy
Finland1166 Posts
Now, is that true, I don't know, but I wouldn't declare Slush a piece of trash so easily. | ||
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Housemd
United States1407 Posts
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positron.
634 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:03 SirNeb wrote: Manner is overrated.. just look at the sportsmanship in any professional sports. In a pro basketball game, a close call happens when a ball goes out of bounds. I'm sure 90% of the time the players involved know clearly who touched the ball last.. But most of the time, the players will almost always point to the direction that benefits themselves or their team. It is always up to the officials to make the final call, whether right or wrong. Good sportsmanship is merely a blessing but when the stake is high, people will only selfishly care about themselves. Chill is right that the people running the show needs to make the best decision and players have to accept the call whether the admins is factually correct or not. Besides, no matter how 100% win for Artosis, he was ultimately the person who disconnected. If there is any doubt that Slush can come back, which we can obviously see that the admin had thought there was a slim chance, then that's that. If it's subjective, then it means it's not 100%. If on the other hand, the official who made the call made a mistake due to misunderstanding the policy, then that's a totally different issue. Actually, I don't even agree with Nazgul making that post honestly, he should stick with the decision of his staff. Oh well, good thing this is just a game, a jury convicting someone of a crime. So Nazgul should have stick with the decision of his staff even though it is wrong? Edmund Burke said the only thing necessary for triumph of evil is for good man to do nothing and certainly Nazgul has proven himself a good man by correcting the mistake made by his staff. Manner is certainly not overrated. In team sports you do see the scenario you described happen a lot but they happen because the players' decision affect their teammates, coach staff and a lot of people so they let the officials make the call. However in individual sports where players are only responsible for themselves such as tennis you would a lot of players give their opponents point if the line judge made a mistake of calling a shot out. | ||
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Norway
United States341 Posts
Shit happens when you leave things up to judges and this is just another example. It's like saying in a playoff baseball game where the runner is somehow tagged but the ump says he's safe. Is he going to really tell the ump 'hey sorry he tagged me... you didn't see it but I know for a fact I should be out.' Seriously wtf kind of logic is that, since when does there need to be honour in competition? All TL had to do was make a decision, unfortunately they kinda messed it up. Doesn't mean Slush should burn at the stake for it - everyone can stop qq'ing over a weeks worth of a Mcdonald paycheck and move on knowing TL is better equiped for future events such as this (I hope) | ||
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Nouar
France3270 Posts
It's always very difficult, near impossible, to give a win TO THE MAN WHO DISCED. Slush could have said gg, of course, and not take the regame, but you can't say it's HIS FUCKING FAULT. (that is to say, as long as he didn't whine/begged for the regame) If he only took what admins gave him, he can't be hold responsible, even if it would have been nice from him to acknowledge his defeat. Rek, you're being way too harsh with this I think. He's not a fucking faggot for accepting a regame that was given to him. Merely he took advantage by siding with the admins decision, that's all. Just don't forget who disced. That makes a whole fucking lot of a difference. The usual decision in case of disced are the following : - defloss. If admins are dumb ofc, and depending on how the game goes. (disadvantage or even game -YES team managers often ask for defwin when the other team disced and the game was equal-) - regame. If the player who disced had an advantage or game was equal and the guy is not being an ass or if admins are smart. - defwin TO THE DISCER is only given in the most extreme cases, and this appeared to have been one, but regame is still a not-so-unfair decision. You can't really blame Slush, seriously... | ||
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sLiniss
United States849 Posts
EDIT: And on responsibilty, I suppose it would be nice if he did concede, but slush really has no need or obligation to willingly not play it by the book. | ||
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ella_guru
Canada1741 Posts
Artosis' was having disc problems before, he knew about them and the problems exist solely on his end If the guy on the losing side was about to disconnect, the winner would say "pff, no regame the noob should play with a proper set up if he is going to enter a tournament with prize money" I mean, it's not entirely his fault, but well, it is no way slush's fault that he was playing with faulty equipment or whatever. GG RE I guess Ethics in competition are always going to come down to the person anyway, and this might not even have been an ethical choice if slush thought "I'm losing, but I might be able to turn this around.." It's starcraft FFS. | ||
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ZeroCartin
Costa Rica2390 Posts
On May 09 2010 12:38 Chill wrote: I don't think there's any responsibility for a player to police himself - that's the administrator's job. Great if he does it but I don't feel any malice to one who takes a regame that is given to him. Agreed | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On May 09 2010 13:03 SirNeb wrote: Manner is overrated.. just look at the sportsmanship in any professional sports. Quite the contrary is true. Manner is everything which keeps us from turning back into stone-age-manners of "oh I got this huge club and I will get myself a wife for my cave with it"-nonsense. It is a BAD concept to repeat the bad examples of others and cite their behaviour as justification for it. We absolutely need good manners for a better future and since professional sports stars are giving examples for the rest of the nation through their behaviour on TV they are responsible how the next generation will behave. Day[9] always says "everyone in Europe is just nice and friendly" and guess what ... we dont have such massively televised shows of aggressiveness (yet) as there are in the USA with their fake Wrestling aggression and American Football brawling. Just look at the British and their cricket ... very calm and quiet sport. Sure we also have American Football here, but it has maybe a hundredth of the popularity compared to the USA. Maybe there is a connection and maybe there isnt, but every publicized increase in the aggression (or BM in the case of Starcraft) will multiply through kids who are watching the stuff and who start to act like their hero(es) in real life. Being BM "for a living" is NOT COOL! On the other side it is not really easy to establish a set of ethics and code of conduct for players to adhere to ... do we put a penalty on quitting a game without GGing and which things in chat are unacceptable? If the rules are too flexible they are worth nothing, but if the rules are too tight they become the focus of some matches and the actual game is second page material only. Both ways are less than ideal and leaving the decision to the judges is the right way to go IMO. Even the judges are human beings and may make mistakes in their rulings in the same way it happens in other sports as well. At least Starcraft has one advantage: The rules for tournaments are not set into stone and every new tournament can learn from the hiccups of the previous ones and make these guidelines clearer so the headache at the time of decision making is less severe. | ||
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radim
Czech Republic122 Posts
On May 10 2010 09:51 positron. wrote: However in individual sports where players are only responsible for themselves such as tennis you would a lot of players give their opponents point if the line judge made a mistake of calling a shot out. oh come on, I've never seen a tennis pro to do that. on topic, I haven't seen the game so I don't really know if the decision made by admins was correct or not, but you can't blame Slush for not forfeiting the game. if he believed that he can still win the game (and he has every right to do so), it's up to referees to make the decision. so if you want to blame someone, blame them. I mean, it's not like the decision was made by one person right? | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
Which means in the future he will likely proceed with the same mind set. By letting him get away with this and pointing to the loopholes in the rules saying he didn't violate the rules, TL is failing in protecting Fair Play. Which is the sole purpose of your rules in the first place, to protect the idea of fair play. I stated this over and over again, yet staffs still keeps pointing to the fact that he didn't violate any rules. Slush's only punishment so far is merely got all his reputation destroyed by not respecting fair play, and being dishonest. He deserves more punishment like rekrul said. but not because having rid of his reputation is not enough, no, this is as bad as it comes in an online community, just look at testie, people gives him so much shit even when he's so good all because he hacked and got caught. The reason he deserves more punishment is to uphold TL's high standards of the idea of fair play, TL have to show people that even when you abuse the system, use the loopholes in the rules to cheat, we will still get you. | ||
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